Licence for Electric Scooter.

[Jumbo1968]

I am looking at buying an electric scooter, couple of options, a pushbike with an assisted electric motor or a small powered electric scooter, do I require a driving licence ?

[Kwasaki]

 There's a few threads on this and the answer is no at the moment.

[jackdd]

On 10/29/2021 at 7:18 PM, Jumbo1968 said:

I am looking at buying an electric scooter, couple of options, a pushbike with an assisted electric motor or a small powered electric scooter, do I require a driving licence ?

No you don't, because it's illegal to ride on the road anyway.

[kelboy]

Just buy a honda click,it won't let you down. 

[KhunLA]

They are legal to drive on the road, depending on what you buy.

Some E motorcycle / scooters are legal / registered / tagged, which of course will require you to have a motorcycle license to drive.  I own 1 myself.

 

Other E 2 wheelers, depending on motor size, may not be street legal, as not registered / tagged.  This can include many things.  

 

Legality (to register) or unregistered and allowed to be driven on the road, comes down to motor size / capability, I think.  Most motors rated in watts; 250w, 350w, 500w, 750w, 1000w & up.  I personally have not checked to verify the law, but most folks state 500w is the legal limit on 2 wheel vehicles, no matter what they are called; e-scooter, e-bike.  If it looks like a motorcycle or scooter (Scoopy / Fino), then it better be able to be registered.

 

If looks like a bicycle w/pedals, or something you are standing on, I'd say your pretty safe, as long as you aren't passing PoPo on the road doing 40 kph.  No real way for them to tell the motor size / capability without a spec sheet in front of them.  Which comes down to battery v X Ah and motors ability to use.

 

Mine is 'rated' at 3000w motor, but with a 72v50Ah battery, has the capacity to generate 3600.  Promo says it will do 80-90 kph, user manual states 60 kph, and can verify at least 87 kph by myself & 80 kph with wife on the back.

 

You put a bafang mid or hub motor on your bycycle with a 60v30Ah, and you'll be  cruising along quite nicely  ????

 

I believe most BMS controller, govern you to about 25 kph on many small e-bikes& e-scooters, as the legal limit in many countries.  Again, I have not researched the legal limits here in Thailand, as not applicable to myself.

 

There's more than a few in the area I live, and are basically ignored by PoPo, or shall I say I haven't seen anyone pulled over with one.   Although lax enforcement of helmet law here also, along with with very low accident counts, off the main highway, so PoPo doing excellent job with the very few checkpoints that I do see monthly.   Possibly making people get licensed & registered ... or else.

 

Complete opposite of Udon Thani where daily check points (money collection) & stupidity on the road leads to way too many accidents.  I rarely have to make an evasive move while driving here vs when living in UT area.

Edited October 31, 2021 by KhunLA

[Jumbo1968]

4 hours ago, jackdd said:

No you don't, because it's illegal to ride on the road anyway.

What’s illegal too ride on the road ?

[KhunLA]

34 minutes ago, Jumbo1968 said:

What’s illegal too ride on the road ?

As I stated above, 500w might be the legal limit for unregistered 2 wheelers.  So anything larger without registration may be considered illegal to ride on the street, and or need to be properly licensed for.

 

Could pop into the local PoPo station and ask.  Quick search on Google:

 https://kohcycle.com/toyotron

 

Toyotron is Thailand's only Electric Motorbike Factory which produces road registered vehicles.   

In Thailand, 500 watts is the legal power output before registration & insurance is required. 

Edited October 31, 2021 by KhunLA

[Kwasaki]

37 minutes ago, Jumbo1968 said:

What’s illegal too ride on the road ?

http://thailaws.com/law/t_laws/tlaw0140_5.pdf

[dddave]

KhunLa's extensive post really covers most of it.   E-Bikes and scooters are falling into what is at this time a grey area.  Even dealers can't agree on which laws apply to what.  

Essentially, low powered E-bikes are being treated as under 50cc mopeds and are free to travel on roads and walking paths however there are cops who ignore the distinctions and can treat it like a motorbike.  They are not supposed to be able to exceed 25kph.

 

I have a E-Bike that looks like a small folding bicycle with 24" wheels.  I live in Jomtien Beach and have never been stopped by police.  To them, I appear to be just another bicycle.  A man in my condo building has an electric scooter that looks similar to a motorbike and he has been stopped numerous times by cops but can usually talk his way out of it.  He also has a Thai drivers license which I don't have.

[Jumbo1968]

3 hours ago, kelboy said:

Just buy a honda click,it won't let you down. 

I am 70 years old and have never driven a scooter and I don’t think the busy roads round Pattaya is the best place too learn.

[jackdd]

3 hours ago, Jumbo1968 said:

What’s illegal too ride on the road ?

A motorcycle without registration, license plate and insurance.

The small electric bikes don't have these things. There is also no exemption in the law for them.

[KhunLA]

2 hours ago, Jumbo1968 said:

I am 70 years old and have never driven a scooter and I don’t think the busy roads round Pattaya is the best place too learn.

What exactly are you looking for ?

 

e-bike (understood), a bicycle w/pedals and motor to assist, or if feeling lazy, to power you completely.

 

When people say scooter, and myself, and my ignorance kicked in until recently, as I called all motorcycles scooters, including my 125, 750, 900.  Wrong.  Scooter are the ones with platform to set feet on, almost a 'sit in chair' position, instead of pegs sticking out, legs hugging the engine area, with a bit of a lean forward on the handlebar.  Scooter example: Scoopy / Fino.

 

Also called a scooter, is the big 2 wheeled skateboard with the extended steering 'pole' that you stand on.  Actually making quite a few that go quite fast, along with very expensive, if wanting to be sporty.

 

Then there's the short little e-bikes looking like a cross between a bike and motorcycle, but most have pedals, some don't.  Not sure about the legality of the ones that go much faster that 25 kph, and may or may not have pedals.

 

All have their pros & cons.  If not feeling experimental, then a e-bike (motor assisted bicycle) would probably be the way to go.  If not looking speed, 250w, 350w or 500w would be more than enough.  most have removeable batteries, to charge indoors.  Some name brands, some not so inexpensive.

 

Main decision is wheel & motor & battery size.  Wheels come in 10, 12, 16, 20, 26, and motors, 250w & up.  Battery will dictate power & distance on 1 charge.

 

70 yr old, on an e-bike, I personally wouldn't worry about the legality, unless you go for the speed demon model.

 

I strongly considered buying one myself, as I love riding my bicycle 10-20-30 kms away, but hate riding back.  I ended up buying a large scooter (motorcycle) as I want to take the dog with me, and not in the car, along with wanting an EV.  My daily routine is to the park in the AM, and surf in the PM with the dog, so scratched the 'bike' idea.  EV it now, instead of the ICE SUV.

 

Quick search, and you may want to head over to Ninja bikes, do some 'window' shopping for options. http://tiny.cc/55xkuz

https://www.facebook.com/ninjabikes/photos/?ref=page_internal

 

I was looking at these, and can get a bit pricy, not far off the price of EV motorcycles, some actually more expensive: https://www.bkkebike.com/e-bike-thailand

 

 

 

 

[Jumbo1968]

38 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

What exactly are you looking for ?

 

e-bike (understood), a bicycle w/pedals and motor to assist, or if feeling lazy, to power you completely.

 

When people say scooter, and myself, and my ignorance kicked in until recently, as I called all motorcycles scooters, including my 125, 750, 900.  Wrong.  Scooter are the ones with platform to set feet on, almost a 'sit in chair' position, instead of pegs sticking out, legs hugging the engine area, with a bit of a lean forward on the handlebar.  Scooter example: Scoopy / Fino.

 

Also called a scooter, is the big 2 wheeled skateboard with the extended steering 'pole' that you stand on.  Actually making quite a few that go quite fast, along with very expensive, if wanting to be sporty.

 

Then there's the short little e-bikes looking like a cross between a bike and motorcycle, but most have pedals, some don't.  Not sure about the legality of the ones that go much faster that 25 kph, and may or may not have pedals.

 

All have their pros & cons.  If not feeling experimental, then a e-bike (motor assisted bicycle) would probably be the way to go.  If not looking speed, 250w, 350w or 500w would be more than enough.  most have removeable batteries, to charge indoors.  Some name brands, some not so inexpensive.

 

Main decision is wheel & motor & battery size.  Wheels come in 10, 12, 16, 20, 26, and motors, 250w & up.  Battery will dictate power & distance on 1 charge.

 

70 yr old, on an e-bike, I personally wouldn't worry about the legality, unless you go for the speed demon model.

 

I strongly considered buying one myself, as I love riding my bicycle 10-20-30 kms away, but hate riding back.  I ended up buying a large scooter (motorcycle) as I want to take the dog with me, and not in the car, along with wanting an EV.  My daily routine is to the park in the AM, and surf in the PM with the dog, so scratched the 'bike' idea.  EV it now, instead of the ICE SUV.

 

Quick search, and you may want to head over to Ninja bikes, do some 'window' shopping for options. http://tiny.cc/55xkuz

https://www.facebook.com/ninjabikes/photos/?ref=page_internal

 

I was looking at these, and can get a bit pricy, not far off the price of EV motorcycles, some actually more expensive: https://www.bkkebike.com/e-bike-thailand

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the info, very informative.

 

39 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

What exactly are you looking for ?

 

e-bike (understood), a bicycle w/pedals and motor to assist, or if feeling lazy, to power you completely.

 

When people say scooter, and myself, and my ignorance kicked in until recently, as I called all motorcycles scooters, including my 125, 750, 900.  Wrong.  Scooter are the ones with platform to set feet on, almost a 'sit in chair' position, instead of pegs sticking out, legs hugging the engine area, with a bit of a lean forward on the handlebar.  Scooter example: Scoopy / Fino.

 

Also called a scooter, is the big 2 wheeled skateboard with the extended steering 'pole' that you stand on.  Actually making quite a few that go quite fast, along with very expensive, if wanting to be sporty.

 

Then there's the short little e-bikes looking like a cross between a bike and motorcycle, but most have pedals, some don't.  Not sure about the legality of the ones that go much faster that 25 kph, and may or may not have pedals.

 

All have their pros & cons.  If not feeling experimental, then a e-bike (motor assisted bicycle) would probably be the way to go.  If not looking speed, 250w, 350w or 500w would be more than enough.  most have removeable batteries, to charge indoors.  Some name brands, some not so inexpensive.

 

Main decision is wheel & motor & battery size.  Wheels come in 10, 12, 16, 20, 26, and motors, 250w & up.  Battery will dictate power & distance on 1 charge.

 

70 yr old, on an e-bike, I personally wouldn't worry about the legality, unless you go for the speed demon model.

 

I strongly considered buying one myself, as I love riding my bicycle 10-20-30 kms away, but hate riding back.  I ended up buying a large scooter (motorcycle) as I want to take the dog with me, and not in the car, along with wanting an EV.  My daily routine is to the park in the AM, and surf in the PM with the dog, so scratched the 'bike' idea.  EV it now, instead of the ICE SUV.

 

Quick search, and you may want to head over to Ninja bikes, do some 'window' shopping for options. http://tiny.cc/55xkuz

https://www.facebook.com/ninjabikes/photos/?ref=page_internal

 

I was looking at these, and can get a bit pricy, not far off the price of EV motorcycles, some actually more expensive: https://www.bkkebike.com/e-bike-thailand

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the info, very informative 

[The Hammer2021]

4 hours ago, KhunLA said:

As I stated above, 500w might be the legal limit for unregistered 2 wheelers.  So anything larger without registration may be considered illegal to ride on the street, and or need to be properly licensed for.

 

Could pop into the local PoPo station and ask.  Quick search on Google:

 https://kohcycle.com/toyotron

 

Toyotron is Thailand's only Electric Motorbike Factory which produces road registered vehicles.   

In Thailand, 500 watts is the legal power output before registration & insurance is required. 

So regarding electric scooters there is nothing illegal as such to ride on the road. Some vehicles require insurance but others don't.

[The Hammer2021]

Do three wheelers electric vehicles have a different licensing system to two wheelers?

[The Hammer2021]

On 10/29/2021 at 9:42 PM, Kwasaki said:

 There's a few threads on this and the answer is no at the moment.

Do you require insurance?

[The Hammer2021]

7 hours ago, KhunLA said:

They are legal to drive on the road, depending on what you buy.

Some E motorcycle / scooters are legal / registered / tagged, which of course will require you to have a motorcycle license to drive.  I own 1 myself.

 

Other E 2 wheelers, depending on motor size, may not be street legal, as not registered / tagged.  This can include many things.  

 

Legality (to register) or unregistered and allowed to be driven on the road, comes down to motor size / capability, I think.  Most motors rated in watts; 250w, 350w, 500w, 750w, 1000w & up.  I personally have not checked to verify the law, but most folks state 500w is the legal limit on 2 wheel vehicles, no matter what they are called; e-scooter, e-bike.  If it looks like a motorcycle or scooter (Scoopy / Fino), then it better be able to be registered.

 

If looks like a bicycle w/pedals, or something you are standing on, I'd say your pretty safe, as long as you aren't passing PoPo on the road doing 40 kph.  No real way for them to tell the motor size / capability without a spec sheet in front of them.  Which comes down to battery v X Ah and motors ability to use.

 

Mine is 'rated' at 3000w motor, but with a 72v50Ah battery, has the capacity to generate 3600.  Promo says it will do 80-90 kph, user manual states 60 kph, and can verify at least 87 kph by myself & 80 kph with wife on the back.

 

You put a bafang mid or hub motor on your bycycle with a 60v30Ah, and you'll be  cruising along quite nicely  ????

 

I believe most BMS controller, govern you to about 25 kph on many small e-bikes& e-scooters, as the legal limit in many countries.  Again, I have not researched the legal limits here in Thailand, as not applicable to myself.

 

There's more than a few in the area I live, and are basically ignored by PoPo, or shall I say I haven't seen anyone pulled over with one.   Although lax enforcement of helmet law here also, along with with very low accident counts, off the main highway, so PoPo doing excellent job with the very few checkpoints that I do see monthly.   Possibly making people get licensed & registered ... or else.

 

Complete opposite of Udon Thani where daily check points (money collection) & stupidity on the road leads to way too many accidents.  I rarely have to make an evasive move while driving here vs when living in UT area.

Er..Could you paraphrase and precis a bit to explain at what point a two/three wheeled electric vehicle, on sale in the shops  require a license. Thank you.

[blackprince]

"In Thailand, 500 watts is the legal power output before registration & insurance is required. "

 

https://kohcycle.com/toyotron/

 

Personally I'm particularly interested in a fat tyre electric bicyle, or solar powered samlor!

 

Edited October 31, 2021 by blackprince

[Liverpool Lou]

9 hours ago, jackdd said:

On 10/29/2021 at 7:18 PM, Jumbo1968 said:

I am looking at buying an electric scooter, couple of options, a pushbike with an assisted electric motor or a small powered electric scooter, do I require a driving licence ?

No you don't, because it's illegal to ride on the road anyway.

Really?  A bicycle with electric assistance is illegal on the roads but a bicycle isn't?

[Liverpool Lou]

5 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

http://thailaws.com/law/t_laws/tlaw0140_5.pdf

Which section of the Act are you referring to?

[KhunLA]

31 minutes ago, The Hammer2021 said:

So regarding electric scooters there is nothing illegal as such to ride on the road. Some vehicles require insurance but others don't.

If meaning the skateboard-ish scooter, than I can't answer, as never really researched it on a Thai licensing / registration site.  More than a few locally, and PoPo seem to ignore them.  They also behave themselves, and no more a hazard than a bicycle.  Maybe less since so small / slim.

 

Same with 'mobility bikes' / 3 wheeled, as not seen any with tags, and nobody bothers them as slowly cruise down the road.

 

If full size E-scooter (motorcycle) then yes, mine is registered / tagged, insured and I'm licensed to drive it.  All required.

Edited October 31, 2021 by KhunLA

[Kwasaki]

1 minute ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Which section of the Act are you referring to?

None it was to answer a question of are the Thai road laws, that's  for all vehicles.

[jackdd]

8 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Really?  A bicycle with electric assistance is illegal on the roads but a bicycle isn't?

Yes if it doesn't have license plate, insurance etc., because a vehicle with two wheels (optional sidecar with third wheel) and a motor or engine is classed as motorcycle under Thai law.

A bicycle doesn't have a motor or engine, thus it's not a motorcycle.

[Liverpool Lou]

.

Edited October 31, 2021 by Liverpool Lou

[Liverpool Lou]

2 minutes ago, jackdd said:

13 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Really?  A bicycle with electric assistance is illegal on the roads but a bicycle isn't?

Yes if it doesn't have license plate, insurance etc., because a vehicle with two wheels (optional sidecar with third wheel) and a motor or engine is classed as motorcycle under Thai law.

A bicycle doesn't have a motor or engine, thus it's not a motorcycle.

Bicycles with electric assistance do have motors!   Don't think it makes them a motorbike, though, and I don't think they need registering but I'd suggest it's a grey area that most are guessing about.

[Kwasaki]

1 minute ago, Liverpool Lou said:

...except electric bikes, perhaps, which weren't really a thing when those regs were enacted!   Bit of a grey area, I'd suggest.

No it isn't if you read the two wheels law the fact TIT so there is no inforcement in place at the moment but when there enough of them about something will be done. 

[KhunLA]

For legal clarifications, suggest actually going into your local police station and asking them  Too much conflicting, old, un-verified info on internet.

 

If seeing someone driving what one is interested in, then could ask them if ever bothered / cited for operating on the street.

[Liverpool Lou]

8 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

15 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

...except electric bikes, perhaps, which weren't really a thing when those regs were enacted!   Bit of a grey area, I'd suggest.

No it isn't if you read the two wheels law

Which section applies to electric-assisted bicycles?   I can't find it.

Edited October 31, 2021 by Liverpool Lou

[blackprince]

Unless things have changed recently you can legally operate an electric bike under 500 watts without a license or insurance. However, you have to remember that the purpose of insurance is to insure 3rd parties, yourself, passengers, fire, theft, damage etc. So insurance might be advisable whatever the legal situation currently is (assuming you can get it!).

 

But not a lot of point in arguing here about it, it's a simple matter to confirm the current situation by talking to dealers, the police and insurers about this if anyone is really interested.

[Kwasaki]

25 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Which section applies to electric-assisted bicycles?   I can't find it.

Two wheels.