Elderly expats dazed and confused over insurance, ‘retirement visas’ and COVID

[Neeranam]

3 hours ago, Boomer6969 said:

Would be easy peasy to implement where we come from, but unfortunately near impossible, as it would be way too streamlined for this twisted and corrupt country, where government agencies compete for corruption income instead of cooperating. 

This corrupted country is welcomed by the very expat that can't afford health insurance. 

 

Have you any idea the number of people here on retirement visas that were got illegally through an agent? These fraudsters can only get a visa by illegal means as they can't show the 800k in the bank, which is a requirement for staying in the country. The crooked agent either pay 15k directly to the IO or have a bent  teller in the bank. I know one agent in Pattaya that even has an IO in the bank! 

 

You can't burn your cake at both ends - welcome the corrupt nature of immigration letting you stay, then criticize them for asking for insurance. 

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

Imm. make ALL the immi. rules, including whether or not to apply any rule, or apply no rules, and agent use. there are actually written Imm. rules allowing all of this. many agents are Immi. officers. 

 

so if a passport visa / extn stamp is also on Imm. computer, it’s Irrevocably Legal. And Irrelevant how it got there. this set up logically means both (a) there are no rules and (b) because of (a) there can be no corruption.It’s Beautiful ! 

 

[pablo el sueco]

8 hours ago, Sheryl said:

The MoPH has no expertise whatsoever in private insurance schemes, why would they? indeed their complete lack of understanding of health insurance has contributed to the bad policies.

 

Not remotely their mandate or area of expertise. And they are rather busy managing the public health care system.

 

IF they want private policies evaluated (which they probably do not, as too complicated) should contract it to a private entity with relevant expertise.

The MoPH may not have the expertise to evaluate insurance policies, but private hospitals do -- it's their livelihood.  The MoPH could easily modify their FOREIGN INSURANCE CERTIFICATE to be signed by a hospital administrator instead of an insurance company director.

 

The retiree presents his policy information to the hospital and gets the INSURANCE CERTIFICATE signed by hospital administration.  To apply for an extension of stay, the retiree submits the approved INSURANCE CERTIFICATE along with form TM7 to the local IO.

[JimGant]

On 11/7/2021 at 11:59 AM, Salerno said:

As I said, it was reported in various media part of the justifications for the change was to allow foreign policies to be used e.g.

 

In June this year, the cabinet made changes to the regulations to allow foreigners living in Thailand to purchase insurance policies outside Thailand to meet this requirement.

It had emerged that a significant number of elderly people had been forced to leave the country after living here for many years when they could not obtain the appropriate insurance cover from Thai insurers to comply with Immigration Bureau regulations.

Read a little further into that Thaiexaminer orticle:

https://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-news-foreigners/2021/10/20/health-insurance-changes-for-expat-retirees/

 

Quote

Only retirement visas are required to show any level of insurance cover for now but change is coming

The increased coverage requirement does not apply to Non-Immigrant O retirement visas for now but this could change.

Marriage visas, non-immigrant B visas or other visa types do not yet have medical health insurance requirements although this may also change in the future as Thailand looks at the question of health coverage for foreigners living and working in the kingdom.

The question of the cost of healthcare for foreigners living in Thailand has become increasingly pertinent with ongoing stories of expats or visitors suffering strokes or debilitating attacks and then being found in a position not to be able to afford the appropriate hospital care.

So, in return for allowing Non Imm O-A based extensions to use foreign insurance policies, a pragmatic acknowledgement that all long term stay folks need to be covered by insurance, regardless of source. Obviously, those 13 TGIA insurance companies will not give up their ill-gotten premiums easily....  So, good chance nothing will change.

[JimGant]

On 11/6/2021 at 12:27 PM, brianwl said:

 Insurance is only available from a specific list of Thai companies.  None of which cover for preexisting conditions or if you’re older than 72.

Wrong. Got my insurance needed for OA extension at age 75; renewed this year at age 76 (cost:16,900bt). Supposedly I can renew up to age 100, but I'll keep my fingers crossed that Tricare will eventually be allowed.

 

Quote

 Tricare although having a long list of approved providers, does in FACT, not have a single provider that directly bills them in Thailand.

Wrong. Bangkok Hospital Chiang Mai has been direct billing Tricare for a rather expensive outpatient treatment my wife has been receiving. Normally, they'll only direct bill for inpatient treatment, but there's a Tricare rep at the hospital who took our situation to the honcho and she agreed to direct bill. Yes, we had to pay a deposit of 50%, but all the paperwork was now done by the hospital (no problem for me, but would be for the wife) and after Tricare paid their 75%, the hospital immediately credited our credit card with our over deposit. But, yes, your mileage may vary, even at the same hospital.

 

Quote

Yes, I am the Expert on US Veteran medical care in Thailand.

You sure? ????

[John Drake]

13 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Yet many foreigners still escape without paying. 

How many? What's the breakdown by country, treatment, hospital, procedure?

[gearbox]

1 hour ago, JimGant said:

Read a little further into that Thaiexaminer orticle:

https://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-news-foreigners/2021/10/20/health-insurance-changes-for-expat-retirees/

 

So, in return for allowing Non Imm O-A based extensions to use foreign insurance policies, a pragmatic acknowledgement that all long term stay folks need to be covered by insurance, regardless of source. Obviously, those 13 TGIA insurance companies will not give up their ill-gotten premiums easily....  So, good chance nothing will change.

 

To enter Thailand with a TP this week I got travel insurance from worldtrips.com (Tokyo Marine). I haven't paid much attention to all the papers they sent me (mostly interested in the covid coverage and the TP required minimum 50K coverage). I noticed today they attached one page declaration that the insurance covers the Thailand O-A requirements for both inpatient and outpatient cover, with some executive signatures. I didn't request this, so I assume that once Thailand is mentioned in the list of countries to travel, and the coverage is above the O-A requirements, this page is automatically generated.

 

This is a travel insurance, not general medical insurance, so it looks like the O-A requirements can be satisfied with both insurance types.

 

[garyk]

Thailand is not a retirement destination? You have to feel for the guys stuck there for the past few years. I cannot imagine spending my retirement years in a place like Thailand?

[darbyman]

79 years old. Married to Thai national 15 years. Lived together in UK for most of those years.  Enquiries into travel and covid insurance showed that I can get UP TO 1 month but not 3 months.

Under present circumstances if I applied in UK for 3 month visa by way of marriage which, I understand, does not require me to have health insurance, how would I overcome the fact that I can't get insured for the 3 months which, I think, would be stamped on my passport.? Hope the question is clear.

[skatewash]

7 minutes ago, darbyman said:

79 years old. Married to Thai national 15 years. Lived together in UK for most of those years.  Enquiries into travel and covid insurance showed that I can get UP TO 1 month but not 3 months.

Under present circumstances if I applied in UK for 3 month visa by way of marriage which, I understand, does not require me to have health insurance, how would I overcome the fact that I can't get insured for the 3 months which, I think, would be stamped on my passport.? Hope the question is clear.

Arrive in Thailand and enter on a visa-exempt entry (which you are eligible for based on being a UK citizen) which will get you stamped in for 30 days only.  You only have to demonstrate health insurance coverage of $50,000 USD to include covid for those 30 days.

As soon as possible but definitely before there are 15 days remaining in your permission to stay in Thailand apply for a Non-O visa for purpose of marriage.  The Non-O visa for purpose of marriage does not come with a health insurance mandate of its own.

Thirty days before the end of the 90 day permission to stay gained by the Non-O visa for purpose of marriage, apply for a marriage extension of stay.  The marriage extension does not come with a health insurance mandate of its own.

This allows you to enter Thailand and only need 30 days of health insurance coverage to cover your initial 30 day permission to stay.  You can apply for a Non-O for purpose of marriage in Thailand and get an extension of stay based on marriage to a Thai.

[darbyman]

42 minutes ago, skatewash said:

Arrive in Thailand and enter on a visa-exempt entry (which you are eligible for based on being a UK citizen) which will get you stamped in for 30 days only.  You only have to demonstrate health insurance coverage of $50,000 USD to include covid for those 30 days.

As soon as possible but definitely before there are 15 days remaining in your permission to stay in Thailand apply for a Non-O visa for purpose of marriage.  The Non-O visa for purpose of marriage does not come with a health insurance mandate of its own.

Thirty days before the end of the 90 day permission to stay gained by the Non-O visa for purpose of marriage, apply for a marriage extension of stay.  The marriage extension does not come with a health insurance mandate of its own.

This allows you to enter Thailand and only need 30 days of health insurance coverage to cover your initial 30 day permission to stay.  You can apply for a Non-O for purpose of marriage in Thailand and get an extension of stay based on marriage to a Thai.

Thank you, that clears it up. I thought I had to apply for the 90day permission whilst in the UK. 

[skatewash]

2 minutes ago, darbyman said:

Thank you, that clears it up. I thought I had to apply for the 90day permission whilst in the UK. 

I should mention that I'm not sure all of the 70 some different immigration offices in Thailand do provide the Non-O visa.  My office in Phuket does.  I believe it can also be obtained in Bangkok and Pattaya.   For example:

http://piv-phuket.com/long-stay-extensions/non-o-visa/

You might want to enquire from your local immigration office whether they do provide the Non-O visa.  I should also mention that most immigration offices want you to get your extension of stay from the same office that issues the Non-O visa.  

 

[jacko45k]

13 hours ago, garyk said:

Thailand is not a retirement destination? You have to feel for the guys stuck there for the past few years. I cannot imagine spending my retirement years in a place like Thailand?

I can and do.

I struggle to imagine what my retirement would be like in the UK... old men are invisible there to all but their compatriots and a few relatives. Hunkering down for a lonely time trapped indoors in winter.......with the odd struggle to the shops..... 

 

 

[Orinoco]

24 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

I can and do.

I struggle to imagine what my retirement would be like in the UK... old men are invisible there to all but their compatriots and a few relatives. Hunkering down for a lonely time trapped indoors in winter.......with the odd struggle to the shops..... 

 

 

Or.

When your health and sanity are fading,

The loyal wife starts to look for a new man ( income stream )

as your starting to be annoying to look after, now it's your turn to be stuck in the corner all day with rice and fish soup put in front of you. just like old grandma was treated.

Could never happen in Thailand could it , LOL

[SunsetT]

https://www.which.co.uk/money/insurance/travel-insurance/how-to-find-travel-insurance-if-you-are-over-65-ax5jc3d327f3

[brianwl]

I see 2 choices.

 

If under 70, pay the annual extortion. 

 

 

 

If over 70, have over 1mil in the bank. 

 

Apparently the Thai Government doesn't give a damn about retirees who make up a huge portion of their GDP.

[JetsetBkk]

2 hours ago, brianwl said:

If over 70, have over 1mil in the bank.

Where did that come from?

 

(Sorry, there's over 12 pages here and I didn't read about that.)

 

[jacko45k]

3 hours ago, brianwl said:

Apparently the Thai Government doesn't give a damn about retirees who make up a huge portion of their GDP.

How do you figure that out?

[kennw]

On 11/5/2021 at 10:13 AM, pookiki said:

As it stands now, all persons entering Thailand (except those with work permits with medical insurance under the Thai healthcare system), must have health insurance with a minimum of US$50,000.00 coverage that includes treatment for COVID. This is less than the 'new' requirement for O-A visa holders that will require US$100,000 medical insurance that includes treatment for COVID. Currently, expats on O visas are not required to have any insurance.  Frankly I don't see how those on O visas will be allowed to continue with no insurance but one never knows for sure.  For sure, the system needs to be overhauled and certainly some elderly people are 'trapped' in having to meet the new insurance requirements if they leave Thailand and then return as they have in the past.  I don't see a resolution to this problem soon.

The real problem is that most insurance companies have an age limit many at 74, above which the will not sell an insurance policy, Those few that do have premiums in the many thousands of dollars (cira $14,000) some offer to lower the premium if recipients will accept large deductibles say (B300,000). If the person could not pay the hospital bill before most likely they cant now. But my guess is the % of old retirees in the unpaid bills group is very small. Mostly they dont ride motorbikes.  

[jacko45k]

13 hours ago, kennw said:

But my guess is the % of old retirees in the unpaid bills group is very small. Mostly they dont ride motorbikes.  

Actually they can probably still get accident insurance and that is much more affordable to them. I know many who forego medical insurance yet do take up these accident policies. I see it as shortsighted .... real medical emergencies are likely more serious and also going to be expensive. I wish  immigration would consider self-insurance as acceptable for long term Extensions to stay here. (But isn't it about putting money in the pockets of their fellow countrymen?)

[Bogbrush]

2 hours ago, jacko45k said:

I wish  immigration would consider self-insurance as acceptable for long term Extensions to stay here. (But isn't it about putting money in the pockets of their fellow countrymen?)

On 7th Nov Salerno posted a statement on this thread from Thailand Embassy in Australia that lack of insurance could be acceptable if accompanied by a letter of refusal from a Thai/overseas insurance company, together with 3m baht seasoned for 2 months.

[jacko45k]

4 hours ago, Bogbrush said:

On 7th Nov Salerno posted a statement on this thread from Thailand Embassy in Australia that lack of insurance could be acceptable if accompanied by a letter of refusal from a Thai/overseas insurance company, together with 3m baht seasoned for 2 months.

It is certainly not 'policy' though for domestic Extensions.

[metisdead]

Some off topic posts and replies have been removed.

 

A post using ALL CAPS and the replies have been removed.  Please turn off your Caps Lock when posting. 

[Hepbub]

Unfortunately, I haven't read all th previous pages. I have an O visa and am married to a Thai lady. If I have to leave Thailand for medical reasons and return in 4 months, with my re-entry permit, tell them I am only here for a month then have to return to UK for further treatment, will I only need the insurance for that month? I will have a return ticket for the date, which I will change once I am here, so I can stay for the rest of the period of my visa, then just have it renewed as normal.

[PadPrikKhing]

On 11/5/2021 at 9:04 PM, John Drake said:

OR!!!

 

If you're in the US, just get on a plane and go to a Mexican resort.

 

Which option would anybody in their right mind choose?

 

Maybe I'm not in my right mind, but Mexico is not a place that I'm interested in (maybe living next door to it in California has a lot to do with that). For me it's not even close to being in the realm of a place that could be an alternative to Thailand. Its food, culture, and vibe don't hold a candle to Thailand's. Just because it's warm and has some beaches, palm trees, and spicy food is not enough.

 

On the other hand, I could consider Laos, Vietnam, and Cambodia (and Malaysia if it weren't even tougher on expats than Thailand is) as alternatives.

[A1Str8]

They are dazed and confused because they contracted that kovid. 

Time to get injected.