I am Done With Thai Retirement Extensions - Relocating to Ecuador or Mexico on Permanent Residency

[NanaSomchai]

I... usually stay away from revealing personal stuff but here goes, this is how I have achieved what I describe as "permanent residence" in Thailand:

 

Step 1) First off I got the Portuguese citizenship, earned it from my Father lineage. (This step is important).

 

If you weren't as lucky as I was to get that citizenship but you are coming from any of the 26 EU countries (sorry doesn't work for the Brits (shouldn't have left the EU!) or the Yankees), I would advise you to settle in Portugal for 2 years then ask for the citizenship, you will understand later why this is important for it to work.

 

- I got my Portuguese Birth Certificate, ID card, and Passport with me then with those documents I flew to Brasil to an "extended holiday".

 

Step 2) Once you get to Brasil for the very first time and enter the country with your Portuguese passport, you will be flagged in the Brasilian immigration database as a citizen of Portugal (equally important as well).

 

Step 3) Find a girl, any girl will do that isn't either married or already in a civil partnership with another dude, apply within your first initial 3 months of stay for a "Civil partnership visa" which then allows you to stay in Brasil more than 3 months at a time, usually one year and that is perfect, it is one year we need.

 

Step 4) The Brazilian Nationality code states a few key points:

 

To be eligible for the Brazilian citizenship one must:

 

a) Spend 5 years uninterrupted in the country.

b) The 5 years are reduced to 3 years only if you marry a Brazilian citizen.

c) The 5 or 3 years are further reduced to only 1 single year if you are coming from a Lusophone speaking country (such as you guessed it; Portugal), bits are now falling into place

 

Step 5) Now that you have spent one year in Brazil you are now eligible and applying for the Brazilian citizenship immediately.

 

Step 6) Now that you have been naturalized, get your Brazilian Birth Certificate, ID card, and Passport with you, this is the Passport you are going to use from now on, to enter Thailand with that passport and that passport ONLY.

 

A little bit of explanation:

 

Unbeknownst to most people, the average Joe tend to believe that entering Thailand with any of the 26 EU countries passports or with the UK passport or US or Canadian passports are the "strongest" passports when it comes to the Thai immigration, wrongfully so.

 

Very few are aware there is a bilateral agreement that has been signed since 19XX between Thailand and 5 countries being (don't quote me on that part), Brasil, Peru, Argentina, South Korea and a 5th one I forgot, 555.

 

Basically what that agreement states is that any passport holder of these 5 nationalities may enter Thailand without the need for a visa with 90 days on arrival each time.

 

That's right; three months on arrival, every single damn time.

 

As this is a bilateral agreement as you've guessed it, it also works for the other way around for Thai citizens, a Thai passport holder is allowed to fly into Brasil, Peru, Argentina and South Korea with only his/her passport, no visas required, no questions asked and stay 90 days per entry (which coincidently explains why there's so many Thai hookers working in South Korea).

 

The agreements are a little bit different per countries, like for the Peruvians they can enter only once per calendar year, while the Brazilians have unlimited access to the Kingdom including by land (this is very important for the next part).

 

So now that we have clearly established that a Brazilian passport holder may enter Thailand for 3 months at a time, no visas required, no paperwork to do, no endless photocopies of the same <deleted> over and over again over the years, let's move onto the next part and let's play a game:

 

Step 7) With your beautiful Brazilian passport you show up at Swampy let's say in January 2022 for the sake of simplicity.

 

You get a 90 days stamp, you spend your initial three months, worry free in the Kingdom:

 

- January 2022.

- February 2022.

- March 2022.

 

At the end of March you go to your local immigration office accompanied with your wife/partner and your Thai kids and ask for your first extension of 1900 baht.

 

Very few people know that the visa extension you are getting for an extra month for 1900 baht is actually a TWO MONTHS extension in case you happen to be a parent of a Thai citizen.

 

So there, your local immigration office shall grant you a two months extension:

 

That gives you:

 

- April 2022.

- May 2022.

 

If you have followed this far, you've already been in the Kingdom for 5 months, worry free, visa free.

 

Now it's time to do your first (and only) visa run of the year.

 

Head for Nong Kai, spend a day in Laos and return to Thailand on the next day.

 

At the border show up with your Brazilian passport again and make sure they give you another 90 days again (they might initially give you 30 days because they are not familiar with these passports, not many Brazilians are showing up at the Nongkhai border, explain to them that you are entitled to 90 days, they'll raise an eyebrow, they'll look up in their documentation and they'll give you 90 days again as stated by law).

 

That gives you:

 

- June 2022.

- July 2022.

- August 2022.

 

From that point, pop back in again at your local immigration office for another 1900 baht extension for your TWO LAST months as a parent of a Thai citizen.

 

That gives you:

 

- September 2022.

- October 2022.

 

By the end of October your second extension, you've reached your limits of how far you can stretch this out per calendar year, you must now leave the Kingdom, which by most people's standards would be fine; two months to fly back home, visit the family, the siblings, etc... then rince and repeat the next calendar year.

 

Now I understand this is very situational and not for everyone and clearly not as equal as having a true "permanent residency" but being able to stay in the Kingdom 10 months out of 12 per calendar year is damn close to it.

 

The beauty of it?

 

- You shall never have to visit a Thai embassy or Consulate.

- You shall never have to rely on a dodgy visa agent.

- You shall never have to pay a bribe to a crooked immigration officer.

 

And most importantly:

 

- You shall not submit endless copies of the same documents, the same pictures of you, year after year.

- You won't ever have to open a bank account or wire 400k baht or 800k baht or whatever amount they will require increasing year after year.

- You'll never have to subscribe to a gouging insurance package.

 

Basically following this guide, I have come to the conclusion over the years, that the best visa for Thailand is... a visa on arrival (or no visa at all) if you have the proper nationality/citizenship.

 

Now, what are the odds this loophole will ever be fixed? Well, in my honest opinion this is very unlikely because as I said; it is a reciprocical bilateral agreement between Thailand and five other countries around the globe, if the Thais were to close this, it would then become very detrimental to the Thais themselves and prevent them access to 5 other visa-free countries around the World. So it's very safe to assume this loophole is here to stay.

 

If you made it this far, get the Portuguese citizenship so you can get the Brazilian citizenship after only a year spent in Brazil so you can enter Thailand (almost) anytime you want without being harassed by the goons in brown.

 

Honestly if you like Thailand for all the perks it has to offer; warm climate, tropical beaches, cheap booze, working girls working around the clock in touristic areas, there are very good chances you'll like Brazil as well and won't mind this stop-gap for a year in your life.

 

Don't let the boys in brown play with you, play along with them, beat them at their game with their rules.

 

Hope you enjoyed this read, do your own research.

 

Edited November 6, 2021 by NanaSomchai

[sam6345]

57 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You're not wrong. There are downsides to ALL visa programs. But some are better than others. A good program for one person may be problematic for others. That said, Thailand's lack of any path towards residency security for retired expats has become a potentially fatal downside for many aging expats here. So people considering moving from Thailand should logically only consider nations that actually have residency security paths. To quote the Nomad Capitalist, go where you're treated best (or at the very least not as disposable caca when your visa qualifying account goes one baht under for one day over the entire year). Yes, home countries don't have visa issues, but keeping it real, the majority of retired expats in Thailand are economic refugees and can't expect a dignified life back home if they return. My personal opinion is that Thailand is INTENTIONALLY creating hoops to slowly but surely (and sometimes not so slowly) BOOT OUT significant numbers of retired expats. Those that can navigate those hoops so far -- do not be so freakin' SMUG. You could be next.

Honestly, I couldn't have said it better. My sentiments exactly.

[Liverpool Lou]

14 hours ago, sam6345 said:

the constantly changing requirements for retirement extensions.

What are those "constantly changing requirements"? 

[Liverpool Lou]

13 hours ago, NanaSomchai said:

Sorry then I'm afraid I can't be of any assistance...

Which nationalities are you able to assist with PR...or anything else?

[Liverpool Lou]

13 hours ago, EricTh said:

Things are getting tougher and tougher every year for retirees with more and more requirements.

What are the "more and more requirements" that some posters insist are being imposed on retirement extension applicants?

[NanaSomchai]

4 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Which nationalities are you able to assist with PR...or anything else?

Read above.

[KarenBravo]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

You're not wrong. There are downsides to ALL visa programs. But some are better than others. A good program for one person may be problematic for others. That said, Thailand's lack of any path towards residency security for retired expats has become a potentially fatal downside for many aging expats here. So people considering moving from Thailand should logically only consider nations that actually have residency security paths. To quote the Nomad Capitalist, go where you're treated best (or at the very least not as disposable caca when your visa qualifying account goes one baht under for one day over the entire year). Yes, home countries don't have visa issues, but keeping it real, the majority of retired expats in Thailand are economic refugees and can't expect a dignified life back home if they return. My personal opinion is that Thailand is INTENTIONALLY creating hoops to slowly but surely (and sometimes not so slowly) BOOT OUT significant numbers of retired expats. Those that can navigate those hoops so far -- do not be so freakin' SMUG. You could be next.

Ever heard of Hanlon's Razor?

[Pedrogaz]

We seem to have a government that wishes to blame foreigners for all that is ill with Thailand. Frankly, it smacks of racism.....not in a full frontal assault Western racist way, but in a "Japanese racist" way, where when you are sat alone between two empty seats on a crowded bus or subway carriage. They don't want to sit next to you because they think you smell bad, but they are rarely rude to your face. 

No doubt things are getting harsher.....take the insurance scheme for O-A holders. At the time the claim was made that 500 million baht was left unpaid by foreigners.....well 500 million baht is only about 15 million dollars or about 30 cents per visitor. Making the O-As  fork out 40000 baht a month for crappy insurance is just pandering to the insurance lobby and using hatred of foreigners as a flimsy excuse. Make no mistake the insurance rules will be extended to O visas with time....and for the over 70s this will be a disaster with exclusion of current or prior illness. If you are advertising retirement visas they should be for life and you should be able to pay into the Thai medical scheme.

I am in a fix here. I'm 67 and will soon be uninsurable. I do have enough to lock up 3 million baht in a frozen account for medical expenses, but for obvious reasons don't wish to do this as I would expect hospital bills would rise to exactly 3 million for an ingrown toenail as soon as hospital doctors know that you self insure. 

 

[jesimps]

13 hours ago, CHEYENNE5668 said:

I've heard good things about Panama's expat friendly Pensionado visa. A friend recently relocated there. I'll let him be my canary in the coal mine so to speak before I make any rash decisions. Good luck to you... 

 

Saw a recent documentary about Panama and the incessant blaring of car horns would put me off living in the place. I thought the same when I visited Greece. I'm not sure where I'd move to if they brought in compulsory medical insurance for O visa people, certainly not back to UK, but I'd be forced to move elsewhere. If it wasn't for my missus and stepdaughter I'd do like the OP is doing and make a move now.

[Liverpool Lou]

9 hours ago, Jack1988 said:

It's these stupid visas that make everything difficult and stressful. Immigration has power. C'est la vie, as french people use to say

What is "so stupid" about visa requirements?   You know, those thongs that every country in the world insists on...including yours.

[jesimps]

13 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

List the changes.

Skip the change to money in bank requirement. Not huge hurdle.

And the others are? 

I did annual extension this week.

Keep 800k in Thai bank all year.

Bank letter. 

Few photocopies of passport pages.

Pretty much all I needed to provide. Walk in the park.

You're a good little boy scout. A lot depends on how much money you have in the bank, I get the feeling you're rolling in it.

[Polar Bear]

I would move back to Ecuador in a heartbeat if I was retired, but unfortunately it's not an easy place to earn a living. If you are seriously considering it and want any info, feel free to drop me a DM.

[TheFishman1]

Try Belize is a nice place to live no hassles with visa simple simple

[Jingthing]

18 minutes ago, KarenBravo said:

Ever heard of Hanlon's Razor?

As I stated my take on the intention is my opinion.

[Liverpool Lou]

5 hours ago, clivebaxter said:

Magic in the air- the yapping soi dogs, the racket from wat speakers and vendors. the enchanting whiff from the drains and rubbish tipped along the roadside.

Jesus...whereabouts do you live? 

 

I've got no yapping soi dogs, rubbish isn't dumped on the roadside except by arrangement with the BMA whose workers collect it every day, there's no racket from temples neither is there any racket from vendors and there's no more whiff from the drains than there is from any drain anywhere else.

Edited November 6, 2021 by Liverpool Lou

[ArcticFox]

14 hours ago, sam6345 said:

US and English

Best to brush up on your Spanish.

[dannyol]

For me it's not the extensions of stay that get to me.  It's the government changing the goal posts on a whim.  I had to sign up for no less than four vaccine exchanges because they progressively trashed them for a new one.  I can see that health insurance will become a requirement for all retires pretty soon and at 70, I think it will be rather expensive.  Yes, having 800K sitting idle is not ideal.

 

I've chosen Portugal where income tax will be 10%, but healthcare will be free.  No immigration hoops to jump through after granting of initial residency card is issued in just a couple months.  Full citizenship is available after 5 years.  And the best this is that wine is almost free!

[itsari]

10 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Awesome, soon this forum will have an active poster located in Ecuador. 

Aseannow is going global!

Asiannowsouthamericainthefuture.com

[NanaSomchai]

9 minutes ago, dannyol said:

For me it's not the extensions of stay that get to me.  It's the government changing the goal posts on a whim.  I had to sign up for no less than four vaccine exchanges because they progressively trashed them for a new one.  I can see that health insurance will become a requirement for all retires pretty soon and at 70, I think it will be rather expensive.  Yes, having 800K sitting idle is not ideal.

 

I've chosen Portugal where income tax will be 10%, but healthcare will be free.  No immigration hoops to jump through after granting of initial residency card is issued in just a couple months.  Full citizenship is available after 5 years.  And the best this is that wine is almost free!

Welcome to Portugal!

 

By the way the residency card is issued after 3 months and the full citizenship can be gotten with little as 2 years. Do your own research.

 

Also once you get your Portuguese citizenship, stay 1 year in Brazil and... look at my post in this thread at the top of page 4. You'll understand, it's all explained.

Edited November 6, 2021 by NanaSomchai

[ArcticFox]

30 minutes ago, TheFishman1 said:

Try Belize is a nice place to live no hassles with visa simple simple

https://belize.com/residency-and-retirement-in-belize/

 

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

being skinned alive and hung from an underpass or having your tongue pulled through your cut throat or having your family butchered in front of you ….you have done nothing, example needs to be made and you’re nearby the real escaped culprit…. too bad …wonderful culture…

 

versus using an agent to bypass the often admitted immi. <deleted>show here.

yeah I can really see why someone would choose the former option……

[Catoni]

14 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

I take it this was a typo & you meant annual extensions... 

 

I'm only in my 3rd year of doing extensions but I don't find them (or TM30/90 day reports) onerous as I just pay an agent to do it for me:-

• Annual Extension - 7,000 (Bangkok) - 8,000 (Pattaya) - NB If you don't meet the financial requirements it's 12,500 + an extra 2,500 if you're on a Non-Imm OA & don't meet the health insurance requirements either
• TM30 - Free, my Estate Agent did it for me
• 90 Day Report - Normally free (online) but have problems this year so 200 THB with an agent. 

I get that these requirements may change but in the past decade+ since I've been planning my retirement in Thailand, the only examples I can think of are the tightening up around the financial requirements (limits stayed the same) & the addition of Health Insurance for Non-Imm OA - (Which I acknowledge is a huge deal for some guys)

 

 

 

TBH If I was 65 & sick of dealing with annual extensions, I would get the 20 year Thai Elite Visa (1 Million)  before I would up-sticks & move 1/2 way across the world (though I get that it's a lot closer to the US for you). 

 

“NB”…does that mean Note Bene?    “TBH”…… does that mean To be honest? 
 Acronyms …………

[Halfaboy]

14 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

List the changes.

Skip the change to money in bank requirement. Not huge hurdle.

And the others are? 

I did annual extension this week.

Keep 800k in Thai bank all year.

Bank letter. 

Few photocopies of passport pages.

Pretty much all I needed to provide. Walk in the park.

Did the same this week. In and out (waiting to go in, 90 days, filling in extension form, making copies) about 45 mins later (including a nice smile from the ladie from the extension desk).... Next day collected my stamps. I had the impression that staff was waiting for me. I don't see the big problems.

[paddyfield7]

Good luck in Mexico. Make sure you have a bulletproof vest in your luggage.

[Catoni]

1 hour ago, Pedrogaz said:

We seem to have a government that wishes to blame foreigners for all that is ill with Thailand. Frankly, it smacks of racism.....not in a full frontal assault Western racist way, but in a "Japanese racist" way, where when you are sat alone between two empty seats on a crowded bus or subway carriage. They don't want to sit next to you because they think you smell bad, but they are rarely rude to your face. 

No doubt things are getting harsher.....take the insurance scheme for O-A holders. At the time the claim was made that 500 million baht was left unpaid by foreigners.....well 500 million baht is only about 15 million dollars or about 30 cents per visitor. Making the O-As  fork out 40000 baht a month for crappy insurance is just pandering to the insurance lobby and using hatred of foreigners as a flimsy excuse. Make no mistake the insurance rules will be extended to O visas with time....and for the over 70s this will be a disaster with exclusion of current or prior illness. If you are advertising retirement visas they should be for life and you should be able to pay into the Thai medical scheme.

I am in a fix here. I'm 67 and will soon be uninsurable. I do have enough to lock up 3 million baht in a frozen account for medical expenses, but for obvious reasons don't wish to do this as I would expect hospital bills would rise to exactly 3 million for an ingrown toenail as soon as hospital doctors know that you self insure. 

 

40,000 Bhante per month for insurance for O-A folks?  Seriously?   That will be the end of living in Thailand for a lot of people. Only the independently wealthy rolling in money will be left. 
In my home country of Canada, 40,000 Baht is about $1,500.00   
Can you please double check?  Are you sure O-A visa holders have to pay 40,000 Baht per month for Thai insurance? 
Thank you .  

[cmarshall]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

You're not wrong. There are downsides to ALL visa programs. But some are better than others. A good program for one person may be problematic for others. That said, Thailand's lack of any path towards residency security for retired expats has become a potentially fatal downside for many aging expats here. So people considering moving from Thailand should logically only consider nations that actually have residency security paths. To quote the Nomad Capitalist, go where you're treated best (or at the very least not as disposable caca when your visa qualifying account goes one baht under for one day over the entire year). Yes, home countries don't have visa issues, but keeping it real, the majority of retired expats in Thailand are economic refugees and can't expect a dignified life back home if they return. My personal opinion is that Thailand is INTENTIONALLY creating hoops to slowly but surely (and sometimes not so slowly) BOOT OUT significant numbers of retired expats. Those that can navigate those hoops so far -- do not be so freakin' SMUG. You could be next.

I don't believe this is true.  If the Thai government wanted to boot out us Westerner immigrants (more appropriate term than "expats" especially for those complaining about the lack of residency status), they would just do so.  Unlike when the military government fresh from the 2014 coup summarily tossed out several hundred thousand workers from Myanmar and Cambodia and then had to back down when the Thai business owners complained that they had lost their workforce, if they tossed us out no one would scream but some wives who would have a lot less influence with the military than the business owners.  

 

Thailand doesn't need us.  Our contribution to the Thai economy is infinitesimal.  But they do tolerate us, if only grudgingly, because some Thai people do get some economic benefit from us.  It's been like that for decades and is likely to continue.  If not, we'll move on just as we always knew we might have to.  No one lied to us that future Thai governments would feel honor bound to accommodate our needs here as we age uninvited in their country.

 

This is just more white people's sense of entitlement.  

 

[PeachCH]

Philippines actually also not much problems. 

Special treatment for us old folks has Panama. 

Check it out. 

[Expat68]

14 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

A ray of reality from @KhunLA

 

Glad I'm not the only one that finds it all so simple and easy.

Immigration differs from each province

[PeachCH]

If married to a Pinay, you get a permanent visa and have to visit immigration once a year and pay 310 Peso. (210 Baht). 

The issued needed ID is valid for 5 years and has to be renewed when expired. 

 

[tandor]

14 hours ago, Zikomat said:

You will come back, sooner or later. There is no other place on Earth like this. Learn to accept its negatives as a part of its uniqueness. Other places may be 100 times better on the paper, but in reality…. there is no other place like this one. Magic in the air.

 

 

each their own...but i like the Chaos and the way Thais handle it..l.essons to be learnt i patience and humility, for me at least.