Gas installation to cook top

[GreasyFingers]

We are about to fit out a new kitchen with a gas cook top (hob). The oven will be electric. The kitchen supply company want the gas bottle under the bench in the kitchen but I think this is too dangerous and want the gas bottles outside like in the photo below. Back home it would be done with copper pipe but the kitchen mob say 1/2 inch galvanized iron pipe.

There does not appear to be anyone local that can supply the parts and install it. Any ideas who might supply the pipe and fittings.

 

 

[VocalNeal]

6 minutes ago, GreasyFingers said:

The kitchen supply company want the gas bottle under the bench in the kitchen but I think this is too dangerous

Some stand alone ranges, at least in Indonesia, come with a compartment for the gas bottle. I.e. the bottle under the counter, So I don't see the danger?

Surely it would be more dangerous to have a not std. set up. Mostly the outside set up is for delivery convenience.

 

Edited November 7, 2021 by VocalNeal

[worgeordie]

If possible ,put the gas bottle outside.

regards Worgeordie

[tonray]

Growing up on the east coast of the USA, all homes pretty much have gas from utility straight in....all use iron piping vs copper. Copper only for water and what they call 'black steel' or 'galvanized steel' are the standard for gas. Just an FYI

[lopburi3]

Normally adjacent and turned on/off as needed here in Thailand for normal items if open to air.  If using in closed room, as it seems, you want outside and copper pipes are indeed available to plumb (did decades ago for gas water heaters and ac shop has).  You never want to fill a room with gas.  And to help be sure the regulator has shut off button like this.

[VocalNeal]

30 minutes ago, worgeordie said:

If possible ,put the gas bottle outside.

regards Worgeordie

As in under the counter in an outside kitchen?

[lopburi3]

13 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

As in under the counter in an outside kitchen?

Outside it is fine (actually still some danger) - just as a BBQ - but it should not be inside kitchen not only because of leakage but because that is the most likely start of fire location and you do not want LPG tank exploding.  

Edited November 7, 2021 by lopburi3

[VocalNeal]

1 hour ago, GreasyFingers said:

There does not appear to be anyone local that can supply the parts and install it. Any ideas who might supply the pipe and fittings.

Again for delivery convenience most busy restaurants have outside gas bottles. So any gas supply store which sells large bottles should be able to point you to someone or alternately anywhere that sells commercial ranges.

[GreasyFingers]

1 minute ago, VocalNeal said:

Again for delivery convenience most busy restaurants have outside gas bottles. So any gas supply store which sells large bottles should be able to point you to someone or alternately anywhere that sells commercial ranges.

Yes, I will have try the larger towns.

[GreasyFingers]

3 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Outside it is fine (actually still some danger) - just as a BBQ - but it should not be inside kitchen not only because of leakage but because that is the most likely start of fire location and you do not want LPG tank exploding.  

This is my thinking exactly.

[recom273]

43 minutes ago, tonray said:

Growing up on the east coast of the USA, all homes pretty much have gas from utility straight in....all use iron piping vs copper. Copper only for water and what they call 'black steel' or 'galvanized steel' are the standard for gas. Just an FYI

Yes, In the UK we have steel pipes for mains gas, but I used to live on a farm where we had 4 big gas tanks and a similar setup to the OP first picture, each tank had a cutoff valve and rubber pipes connecting to a regulator mounted on the wall, then copper pipe to the stove inside the house.

 

Not wishing to split hairs, your statement is correct. I also wish to install a setup similar to the OP, two tanks would be would be good.

Edited November 7, 2021 by recom273

[tonray]

4 minutes ago, recom273 said:

Yes, In the UK we have steel pipes for mains gas, but I used to live on a farm where we had 4 big gas tanks and a similar setup to the OP first picture, each tank had a cutoff valve and rubber pipes connecting to a regulator mounted on the wall, then copper pipe to the stove inside the house.

 

Not wishing to split hairs, your statement is correct. I also wish to install a setup similar to the OP, two tanks would be would be good.

No worries...I think in many states the use of copper pipes within (inside) the wall cavities for gas is prohibited due to the fact they are thinner and less robust so in many cases they just use steel for all as it makes the installation job easier.

[Crossy]

We have the simplest set up.

 

Hole through the wall under the cooktop (no oven so inside a cupboard) bottle immediately outside. Good quality reinforced hose from the cooktop to the regulator on the bottle. 

 

Second bottle sits next to the first, manual swap over.

[GreasyFingers]

1 minute ago, Crossy said:

We have the simplest set up.

 

Hole through the wall under the cooktop (no oven so inside a cupboard) bottle immediately outside. Good quality reinforced hose from the cooktop to the regulator on the bottle. 

 

Second bottle sits next to the first, manual swap over.

That is the simple method (have you turned Thai) and will  be done as the last resort.

What is your definition of "good quality reinforced hose". Any recommendations.

[Dante99]

12 minutes ago, Crossy said:

We have the simplest set up.

 

Hole through the wall under the cooktop (no oven so inside a cupboard) bottle immediately outside. Good quality reinforced hose from the cooktop to the regulator on the bottle. 

 

Second bottle sits next to the first, manual swap over.

Been using that setup for 35 years.  No problems.

[Crossy]

11 minutes ago, GreasyFingers said:

That is the simple method (have you turned Thai) and will  be done as the last resort.

What is your definition of "good quality reinforced hose". Any recommendations.

 

My logic was simple. With the hose there are only two joints to leak (one is outside) compared with the number needed to install metalic tubing (which will likely still need a flexy at the bottle end).

 

The "good quality tube" was the most expensive in the local bottle shop (applying the standard "get what you pay for" logic).

 

It doesn't show and there's no vibration to wear the tube where it passes through the hole, tube is shaded so no issues with UV affecting it.

 

And this thread has reminded me I need to get a new bottle.

[VocalNeal]

15 minutes ago, GreasyFingers said:

What is your definition of "good quality reinforced hose". Any recommendations.

The reinforced clear pvc hose stuff you buy from the gas hob shop? Global/homepro/et al

[GreasyFingers]

11 minutes ago, Crossy said:

My logic was simple. With the hose there are only two joints to leak (one is outside) compared with the number needed to install metalic tubing (which will likely still need a flexy at the bottle end).

Agree, but the hose will have to pass next to the oven so I am concerned about the heat from that. The cook top is above the under bench oven.

[Crossy]

6 minutes ago, GreasyFingers said:

Agree, but the hose will have to pass next to the oven so I am concerned about the heat from that. The cook top is above the under bench oven.

 

Yeah, that would be my worry.

 

Try your local aircon installer for copper tube and fittings, hose, bibs etc from the place you get the bottles.

[VocalNeal]

4 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Try your local aircon installer

That is a good lateral thinking suggestion. He won't have the gas fittings but is used to soldering copper pipe and can even cover it with plastic trunking!

See it helps to have turned Thai.

Edited November 7, 2021 by VocalNeal

[McTavish]

 

Last house I had exactly that set-up.   Local Chiang Mai gas fitter installed copper from open garage area to kitchen above and teed it off to the balcony for a bbq.  Hidden pipes installed during construction.

 

We used a different company for this new house with the same arrangement for pool-side cabana and bbq but the company insisted on gal pipe for under-house ~ 8m supply to my internal kitchen.  This was from a separate twin tank supply in an alcove on rear of house.  The gal pipe was recommended for safety running a long distance under the 1.2m high enclosed under-floor space.

 

A Chiang Mai gas fittings supply shop recommended several gas fitters who use copper, so perhaps you could start with inquiries at a similar outlet in your area,

Edited November 7, 2021 by McTavish

[bankruatsteve]

Just to say... as ubiquitous as LPG is in Thailand and never hearing of any blowing up or starting fires, I don't consider them dangerous no matter where placed.  I'm sure there are anecdotes otherwise but I don't know why anyone would go to any extreme to put outside for so-called "safety".

[Moonlover]

2 hours ago, bankruatsteve said:

Just to say... as ubiquitous as LPG is in Thailand and never hearing of any blowing up or starting fires, I don't consider them dangerous no matter where placed.  I'm sure there are anecdotes otherwise but I don't know why anyone would go to any extreme to put outside for so-called "safety".

The perceived wisdom against keeping the cylinder inside is that if there were a gas leak and a subsequent fire, it would be very difficult if not impossible to get to the valve and shut the gas off. The result could be a self sustaining fire and a risk of the cylinder, being in a confined space, reaching an explosive temperature.

 

In some countries I've stayed in it was illegal to have the cylinder inside the premises and on boats, RVs and caravans, the gas cylinder is always in a separate compartment for the same reason.

[Maybole]

13 hours ago, Crossy said:

We have the simplest set up.

 

Hole through the wall under the cooktop (no oven so inside a cupboard) bottle immediately outside. Good quality reinforced hose from the cooktop to the regulator on the bottle. 

 

Second bottle sits next to the first, manual swap over.

I too have insisted on the gas bottles outside, but I used the reinforced plastic tubing from HomePro and fed it through plastic water piping which was itself fed through a hole in the wall.

[sometimewoodworker]

I’ve been looking for the reinforced plastic tubing, but can only find short precut lengths or a 40M (about. 900 Baht) roll. I need about 10 metres for my install. Does anyone know for sure which shop will cut from a roll?

[ExpatOilWorker]

14 hours ago, bankruatsteve said:

Just to say... as ubiquitous as LPG is in Thailand and never hearing of any blowing up or starting fires, I don't consider them dangerous no matter where placed.  I'm sure there are anecdotes otherwise but I don't know why anyone would go to any extreme to put outside for so-called "safety".

But when they do......

[lopburi3]

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

I’ve been looking for the reinforced plastic tubing, but can only find short precut lengths or a 40M (about. 900 Baht) roll. I need about 10 metres for my install. Does anyone know for sure which shop will cut from a roll?

I would go with copper AC for that length - plastic/rubber tube needs replacement every five years or so as they do deteriorate and no real way to know until fails.  Also the local rat might find something tasty on in and eat a hole.  That said believe gas suppliers can cut to length as have about a 3 meter length feeding main cooking unit from large LPG tank.  Although after thinking suspect may have ordered from Lazada or Shopee.

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/burning-i2666988430-s9597348528.html?spm=a2o4m.searchlist.list.118.3c4e4cbdV6YGZe&search=1

Edited November 8, 2021 by lopburi3

[McTavish]

15 hours ago, bankruatsteve said:

Just to say... as ubiquitous as LPG is in Thailand and never hearing of any blowing up or starting fires, I don't consider them dangerous no matter where placed.  I'm sure there are anecdotes otherwise but I don't know why anyone would go to any extreme to put outside for so-called "safety".

You are correct, one seldom hears about gas explosions, house fires or other such mundane daily disasters.  Doesn't mean they don't happed, because they certainly do and the owner/occupiers are seldom around afterward to complain.  The photo below is of a gas explosion in NZ due to a faulty appliance installation and shows the destructive force of a gas leak.  Actual cylinder explosions are even worse.

 

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, lopburi3 said:

I would go with copper AC for that length - plastic/rubber tube needs replacement every five years or so as they do deteriorate and no real way to know until fails.  Also the local rat might find something tasty on in and eat a hole.  That said believe gas suppliers can cut to length as have about a 3 meter length feeding main cooking unit from large LPG tank.  Although after thinking suspect may have ordered from Lazada or Shopee.

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/burning-i2666988430-s9597348528.html?spm=a2o4m.searchlist.list.118.3c4e4cbdV6YGZe&search=1

Nice idea but none of the PVC gas pipes I have have deteriorated, some are in excess of 10 years old so maybe it’s rubber ones that perish. The other point is that copper isn’t that easy lo locate up here, I can locate rolls but not cut lengths and fittings are even less easy to find.

[lopburi3]

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Nice idea but none of the PVC gas pipes I have have deteriorated, some are in excess of 10 years old so maybe it’s rubber ones that perish. The other point is that copper isn’t that easy lo locate up here, I can locate rolls but not cut lengths and fittings are even less easy to find.

That 5 years is a UK recommendation (likely from a seller) - as you have never had tube fail, and changed to two section rubber several decades ago when sun was a factor.  Plastic did not appear to hold up well to UV.   The link seems to offer hose in various lengths.