3 year old learning english...need help!!!!

[NZAMBOY]

I've been away from Thailand, my wife and daughter for nearly 2 years now. We Line 2-3 times every day tho...now here's my concern/dilemma...They, my wife and daughter, have been living with the extended family at the family village for most of that time and my daughter is speaking Thai and Isaan quite fluently but nearly zero English...

Right now i'm organizing my O-A visa with the plan to return in early Jan '22 and my concern is how best to get her speaking English, as i know very little Thai...

My first thought is to rent an apartment or villa somewhere away from the family, with just the three of us and speak only English...any ideas on the time to get her English ability up to a level where i can communicate with my daughter?? 

Another big potential problem is that my wife will balk at this approach...it will be quite difficult to convince her to isolate ourselves as she's totally immersed in the extended family and will flat out refuse...having said that, if i could get some "authority" figure to support my approach, it would go a long way toward convincing her without a whole lotta drama...

Having said all that, this is only my approach, so i would really welcome other ideas from my fellow ThaiVisa menbers...i'm certainly looking forward to your insight and advice...

cheers

James

[bojo]

I am assuming there isn't an English speaking/International school nearby........................So, either move there yourself full time and speak English with her 24/7 or IMO preferably, persuade wife to move to an area where she can go to a school where English is the primary language spoken, eg an International one....................Unless your daughter is around kids for most of the day that speak English, Thai will always be her first language...........

[kwonitoy]

I had the same anxiety with my son, newborn and I'm working fly in fly out in Australia, only home 1 week in five.

He's speaking Thai exclusively no English.

I downloaded some learning programs on my computer, so when I was home I'd put him in my lap and play learning games on the computer.

Didn't take long to notice a massive improvement, they pick it up quick.

He came to the desk and pulled on my leg and said "pick me up Dad" in perfect English one day.

After that it was quick and easy,

Your daughter will learn, just talk to her and play with her, buy some early learning books and read to her. She'll do the rest.

 

My son is 10 now and fluently bilingual in Thai and English, 

Edited November 20, 2021 by kwonitoy

[Atlantis]

OP, whether or not you isolate away from the extended family:

1. Download YouTube Kids for free.

Maybe your wife can do this right now. If not already, I suggest investing in an iPad-sized or at least iPad mini-sized tablet to minimize eye-strain.

2. Try and hire a decent English tutor to come in once or twice a week.
Doesn't have to native or anywhere near native-speaker at her age. Just someone with experience and good with kids.

3. If you have expat friends / acquaintances in the area, invite them over regularly, especially if they have school-age kids.
It might not be the ideal immersive English-language environment but it's a start. I think young kids can pick up a lot passively.
 

[EVENKEEL]

Same issue, not home enough. At K 3 we moved away from Issan to an area far away from her village to attend an EP school. Now P4 and I've been living here full time for 2 yrs. with her. Her English isn't perfect but pretty good. I correct her mainly on pronouns, but not excessively. I help her to understand words used in her books, so along with reading english she can have an understanding of what she's reading.

[phetphet]

Let her watch english kiddies shows on Youtube. GF's daughter used to watch Octonauts, Peppa Pig and Horrid Henry.

Be aware, watching too much US based stuff. They can end up picking up a US accent.

[Kwasaki]

7 hours ago, NZAMBOY said:

1.  i'm certainly looking forward to your insight and advice... as i know very little Thai...

2. My first thought is to rent an apartment or villa somewhere away from the family.

3.  any ideas on the time to get her English ability up to a level where i can communicate with my daughter?? 

4.  my wife will balk at this approach...it will be quite difficult to convince her to isolate ourselves.

5.  if i could get some "authority" figure to support my approach.

 

My thoughts.

1.  As a father of 3 daughters 1 Thai I'd say talk more Thai while introducing English making it fun.

2.  Bad idea IMHO make a fun holiday away as long as you can.

3.  As said by making it fun otherwise your get nowhere, she is young you could put her off wanting learn English.

4.  Unless your wife agrees with your approach no chance as said best disguise it as a holiday IMO.

5.  Stupid idea.

 

[Gsxrnz]

Some good advice already given so I won't repeat it other than to say than any exposure to decent English will help.  The downside is that your wife seems reluctant to assist and that may be the bigger issue.

 

My adopted daughter was exposed only to my English (fulltime) from age 2 years. From 2 to 5 she barely uttered a word of English but it was patently obvious that she understood everything I said.

 

Enrolled in a small and relatively inexpensive international primary school at 5 years.  Three weeks later it was like a tap was turned on and she wouldn't shut up.

 

There is a downside.  Now at 12 she is a 100% NE speaker and has better English language grammar and writing ability than my same age grandkids back home.  She would eclipse them on every level.  The downside is that she now struggles with written and spoken Thai.

 

I have a friend with two Thai daughters in their late 20's.  He tells me they have a similar story - reluctant to use Thai and what is more worrying, they feel uncomfortable when doing so even in everyday situations.

 

It's now ironic that now I have to spend time encouraging her to develop her Thai and develop confidence in using it.

[Atlantis]

2 minutes ago, Gsxrnz said:

There is a downside.  Now at 12 she is a 100% NE speaker and has better English language grammar and writing ability than my same age grandkids back home.  She would eclipse them on every level.  The downside is that she now struggles with written and spoken Thai.

That's almost a nice problem to have. You're too successful!

Hope you can afford an EP program / International middle school, high school and then an overseas education as it sounds like she'd be more comfortable in that kind of environment.

 

[Gsxrnz]

6 hours ago, phetphet said:

Let her watch english kiddies shows on Youtube. GF's daughter used to watch Octonauts, Peppa Pig and Horrid Henry.

Be aware, watching too much US based stuff. They can end up picking up a US accent.

You make a good point.  A middle-ish US accent seems to be the default and I can live with that. 

 

Without being derogatory, I once heard two half Thai siblings about 9 and 10 years old speaking the broadest UK Yorkshire accent.  My Dad was from Sheffield but they beat him hands down.

 

The kids were with their parents at Central Festival lookout on Level 3.  One boy said to his Dad (and I'll try and get the accent phonetics correct):  "Ay oop Daa, tha kin see art t' sea f' marls 'n marls oop 'ere carn tha."

 

I'm sure his Dad regarded him as a native English speaker.

[Atlantis]

In case anyone had trouble deciphering the above quote, when translated into a non-Klingon English dialect, I believe it should read:

"Ay oop Daa, tha kin see art t' sea f' marls 'n marls oop 'ere carn tha."
                                                      =

Hey Dad, I can see out to sea for miles and miles up here, can't I

Thank you for the entertainment, Gsxrnz.

Edited November 21, 2021 by Atlantis
Punctuation

[JeffersLos]

Are there any foreigners nearby that can move in with the wife? 

[VocalNeal]

10 hours ago, NZAMBOY said:

My first thought is to rent an apartment or villa somewhere away from the family,

Well away, and this has nothing to do with language!

[VocalNeal]

8 hours ago, phetphet said:

Let her watch english kiddies shows on Youtube. GF's daughter used to watch Octonauts, Peppa Pig and Horrid Henry.

Be aware, watching too much US based stuff. They can end up picking up a US accent.

With Fireman Sam you can have either accent. Postman Pat is only English.

I think Bob The Builder is also bilingual?

[KhaoNiaw]

Don't panic and think you need to be taking some kind of 'special measures'. Piling on pressure about how long it's going to take won't help either. You don't need to isolate and you don't need to stop her speaking Thai or Isan with the people she normally would.

 

Spend quality time with your child and you speak to her only in English. Don't try to switch between English and Thai ever. Establish consistent language patterns in your relationships. You should only use English with her. If you usually use English with your wife, stick to that and use that as the language of communication when the three of you are together. Don't try to force her mother to speak to her in English in their own communication if that's not comfortable. Your daughter is growing up multilingual and having a clear idea of how her different languages fit into the different relationships and situations in her life will be much less confusing and more valuable than trying to suddenly force her to exclusively use English. Don't get disheartened if she doesn't suddenly start speaking and don't expect to see results within a few weeks. The best teacher she will get is you using English with her as you go about your daily lives. If you have English speaking friends with children she can play with so much the better. Watching the films and TV shows can also help, especially if you are part of that with her. The bedtime story was always really good quality time with my daughter. Even when she could read well enough herself, she always loved me to read to her. Find the ways that you really connect and the language comes. 

Edited November 21, 2021 by KhaoNiaw

[VocalNeal]

 

[EVENKEEL]

We started with abc's, numbers, colors and such. It wasn't till we started an EP school that she really started connecting with english. Now she has good fun speaking english with stereotypical thai accent to amuse me. 

[SidJames]

10 hours ago, phetphet said:

Let her watch english kiddies shows on Youtube. GF's daughter used to watch Octonauts, Peppa Pig and Horrid Henry.

Be aware, watching too much US based stuff. They can end up picking up a US accent.

Peppa Pig is very good for young children as her diction is faultless.

Also look out for Mr Tumble.

[blackprince]

17 hours ago, NZAMBOY said:

any ideas on the time to get her English ability up to a level where i can communicate with my daughter?? 

Any Ideas on the time to get your Thai ability up to a level where you can communicate with your daughter?

 

Given that you seem to be intending to live in Thailand, Thai will be much more useful to you and your family than English will be to your daughter, unless you plan to expatriate her.

 

You're the adult.

[Maybole]

 My elder granddaughter initially grew up in the village. She went to a school founded by american missionaries but although I could speak to her in English she would always reply in Thai. At the age of 10 her stepdad changed her to a different school which still taught half half  in Thai and English but within a year she was fluent in both languages and got a certificate for her improvement. She is now studying at a university which teaches only in English and coping well.

Her younger siblings were both exposed to English language cartoons and children's TV programmes and now attend the same second school,l where they have both been criticised for their poor Thai. The 14 year has overcome that, but her 6 year old brother, although fluent in spoken Thai and Kham Muang lags in the written language to the extent that his mother is considering transferring him to a Thai speaking school.

 

On a frivolous note, I spent 5 years working in Shetland, where the locals, who could, when they wanted, could speaker better English than most Englishmen, but spoke to each other in their own Norn dialect which I, as an Ayrshireman found difficult to understand. It took me about 3 months to fully understand them.

On the islands, there were half a dozen Thai ladies married to locals whose children spoke Norn, and English but very little Thai, Their mothers were quite distressed because their grandparents, whom they Skyped regularly used to give their daughters rocks for not teaching the grandweans to speak Thai.

 

[NZAMBOY]

14 hours ago, KhaoNiaw said:

Don't panic and think you need to be taking some kind of 'special measures'. Piling on pressure about how long it's going to take won't help either. You don't need to isolate and you don't need to stop her speaking Thai or Isan with the people she normally would.

 

Spend quality time with your child and you speak to her only in English. Don't try to switch between English and Thai ever. Establish consistent language patterns in your relationships. You should only use English with her. If you usually use English with your wife, stick to that and use that as the language of communication when the three of you are together. Don't try to force her mother to speak to her in English in their own communication if that's not comfortable. Your daughter is growing up multilingual and having a clear idea of how her different languages fit into the different relationships and situations in her life will be much less confusing and more valuable than trying to suddenly force her to exclusively use English. Don't get disheartened if she doesn't suddenly start speaking and don't expect to see results within a few weeks. The best teacher she will get is you using English with her as you go about your daily lives. If you have English speaking friends with children she can play with so much the better. Watching the films and TV shows can also help, especially if you are part of that with her. The bedtime story was always really good quality time with my daughter. Even when she could read well enough herself, she always loved me to read to her. Find the ways that you really connect and the language comes. 

Great, sound advice!!!...thanks much for helping me feel much less panicky and obsessive about this language issue...also appreciate and will incorporate the other advisors into my gameplan...again, thanks to you all

[cooked]

Kids soak up language like a sponge. Back home we initially spoke English until my Swiss German came up to a useful level. No problems that we could see. When we moved to the French part of Switzerland, we carried on as usual, sent the kids off to school without wasting a minute's time speaking French. Within a month or two, both were speaking and understanding French. 

Don't take away a kid's mother tongue! Neighbours tried to do that and both kids can hardly express themselves in any language. 

Just do (or don't do) whatever you decide to do too late.

[Scott]

Children are hardwired to learn language and with a little effort and direction on your part, she will learn it easily with no special help.   It's good that she is well grounded in the Thai language.  Don't isolate her from it or her family, just speak English to her and encourage her to speak.  She may learn to understand first and speak more later, but that's normal.  

 

I worked with a Canadian guy who was married to a German girl.  First they had a Thai maid/housekeeper who cared for the children while they worked.  The children understood Thai well and spoke some.  Then his wife's sister came and she and the mother spoke exclusively German to the two children.  They quickly picked up German. 

 

Eventually, they entered a bilingual program for a couple of years before moving to Canada.  His children are fluent in English and German and still speak and understand some Thai.  

 

[GinBoy2]

At 3 it's still doable.

 

I only spoke Spanish to my US kids up until they started Kindergarten, my wife only spoke English.

 

With my Thai son, his Mom only spoke Thai and Lao, me only English and Mandarin until about the same age.

 

It's hard, but at 3 the brain can still be rewired, but when you do it you gotta be diligent, no slipping into a different tongue.

 

I found it exhausting, as did both my wives, but the result is we have 3 kids who are multilingual.

 

So I don't think at such a young age you need to separate yourself, they hear it all and somehow their brain figures it out.

 

My Thai son never heard Mandarin except from me, yet he now speaks better Mandarin than me 

[blackprince]

It's very encouraging to hear from the bilingual and multilingual speakers here.

 

I'm always somewhat surprised to hear from monolinguals who recommend bilingualism for their family but not for themselves.

[bbko]

When my son was learning to speak, he was confused at first trying to learn two languages at the same time,  example, I'd call something "water" and my Thai wife would call it "Nam", but he eventually learned to speak English with me and Thai with his mother. Now at 14 he's fluent in both languages, his English is so good now that when his school's farang English teacher doesn't show up for English class his Thai teachers turn to him for assistance.  

 

As others have mentioned, kids at that age will adapt and pick-up both languages in due time, no need for self isolation or authorities to step in.  If your family was in the states would you be ok if your wife called in the authorities or took the child away from you because she wanted the kid to learn Thai?

 

Bonus hint: If you "know very little Thai", you can learn simple basic Thai words the same time your 3 y/o is learning them.

 

[GinBoy2]

My only regret is that for my Thai son I didn't get him to speak Spanish as well

 

This was a tactical decision. Mandarin isn't a native language to me, but we figured it would be useful for him, which it has indeed turned out to be.

 

It takes effort to do this with your kids, and I tried to speak Spanish to him as well in the beginning, but it was just exhausting trying to separate 3 languages, and talking to my wife in Thai & Lao.

 

5 languages swirling around in your head gets a tad confusing at times.

 

As a kid I grew up speaking English & Spanish and I remember as a small child having weird conversations with my parents where we would all swirl around having conversations in a mixture of both without a second thought.

 

The human brain's ability to figure all this out to this day amazes me, but it's something that has made my life better, and all that effort I put into my kids lifes richer too

[DavisH]

On 11/21/2021 at 11:27 AM, VocalNeal said:

With Fireman Sam you can have either accent. Postman Pat is only English.

I think Bob The Builder is also bilingual?

My son loved Boro' pat (see youtube). 

He has good english skills now, mainly through watching youtube, and ppl with a variety of accents. He got 8.5 on the listeningpart of ielts recently - and that is from both schooling in an EP and watching english shows.