Trapped in Thailand

[Troy Tempest]

Dear All.

 

Although I haven't left Thailand for over 2 years due to the Covid situation I would love to go back to the UK next Summer to see friends, family and Grand Kids.

 

However, I have lived on Koh Samui for 11+ years and do not want to go back to the UK except in July/August because of the weather over there!

 

I must say that I feel trapped now as with all the Health Insurance restrictions (I am 64) and potential costs, whilst it would be relatively easy to go back to the UK now, it might prove difficult or even impossible for me to return to Thailand in the future!

 

I have a great home, Thai girlfriend for the last 11 years, a lovely cat here and live in a beautiful location right on the beach!

 

I am not seeking advice....Just making comment!

 

There must be many from which ever country on this forum who share similar feelings?

 

Just saying! 

 

Best wishes to all of you and let's hope this Pandemic subsides, although I think we all know it won't ever go away?

 

 

[CharlieH]

At 64 you wont have much of a problem if vaxxed and supporting paperwork.

Its the over 70's that may.

That said, we have and have always had, ever shifting sands here, very unstable, who knows what or when the next "whim" will be !

[tonray]

Go and come back with a 30 day visa exempt and you need to buy 30 days of health insurance (as it stands now). Maybe in July nothing. Before your 30 days is up apply for an O Visa conversion (90 days) and then before that expires...your standard annual retirement extension (which I assume you are already familiar with).....30 day policy is all you need.

[ezzra]

These are the "new age" Thailand where everything has turned upside down partly due to the Covid and largely due to the bumbling and bungling (and i'm being gentle here) policies of the Thai government that has lost the plot long time ago, so enjoy what you have got and with whom you have got there coz the future of expats leaving in Thailand hassle free is pretty murky at best...

[userabcd]

Times are changing as are the governments rules and regulations.

 

The burden is only going to increase, laws will change and be more strictly enforced, increased deposit requirement, compulsory health insurance all which will be ever increasing in  every 5 to 10 years.

 

People need to be aware of their circumstances whilst visiting Thailand at a younger age, like the place and then seek being temporarily in Thailand as a non immigrant retiring early without making adequate provision for their future financial security and health.

[Troy Tempest]

18 minutes ago, tonray said:

Go and come back with a 30 day visa exempt and you need to buy 30 days of health insurance (as it stands now). Maybe in July nothing. Before your 30 days is up apply for an O Visa conversion (90 days) and then before that expires...your standard annual retirement extension (which I assume you are already familiar with).....30 day policy is all you need.

Thanks Tonray,

 

Yes I have been on Non Immigrant O Visa Retirement Extensions for 11 years so I know "The Ropes" on all that, but I have some underlying health conditions including MS, Hypertension and High Chlesterol.....The latter two I can control with medications. but it is not a good proposition for most Health Insurance companies to take me me on! 

 

You get my drift? 

[tonray]

2 minutes ago, Troy Tempest said:

Thanks Tonray,

 

Yes I have been on Non Immigrant O Visa Retirement Extensions for 11 years so I know "The Ropes" on all that, but I have some underlying health conditions including MS, Hypertension and High Chlesterol.....The latter two I can control with medications. but it is not a good proposition for most Health Insurance companies to take me me on! 

 

You get my drift? 

Taking you on for 30 days will not be an issue....simply listed as pre-existing and non-covered conditions on your policy.

[Troy Tempest]

12 minutes ago, userabcd said:

Times are changing as are the governments rules and regulations.

 

The burden is only going to increase, laws will change and be more strictly enforced, increased deposit requirement, compulsory health insurance all which will be ever increasing in  every 5 to 10 years.

 

People need to be aware of their circumstances whilst visiting Thailand at a younger age, like the place and then seek being temporarily in Thailand as a non immigrant retiring early without making adequate provision for their future financial security and health.

Thank you for your comments which I fully appreciate.

 

I did retire early (aged 46) but,I had already made provision for "retirement" with a considerable pension pot and cash in the bank besides, having been lucky enough to be in Software Sales to The Financial Sector in the UK at the start of the "Internet Boom" in 1998.

 

When I say retired I mean I am self employed and invest in various stock markets.

 

I never was a "Beach Bum"!  LOL

 

I was diagnosed with MS at the age of 27, but fortunately for me I have only had intermittment attacks (every 3-4 years) from which so far I have been lucky enough to gain complete remission.

 

However, as soon as you list this on any Travel/Health insurance application you get either refused or a ridiculously high Premium quotation ....as in Thousands of pounds p.a.

 

I continue to work (if that's what you call it) by investing in the Stock Markets.

 

I am not a Thai "Ex-Pat Whinger".....There are already too many on this forum, but I realise that my days here are numbered and will probably move to another SEA nation in the next couple of years!....I have many friends in Vietnam and it sounds very good!

[Skallywag]

1 hour ago, Troy Tempest said:

I must say that I feel trapped now as with all the Health Insurance restrictions (I am 64) and potential costs, whilst it would be relatively easy to go back to the UK now, it might prove difficult or even impossible for me to return to Thailand in the future!

 

I have a great home, Thai girlfriend for the last 11 years, a lovely cat here and live in a beautiful location right on the beach!

You should have started buying health insurance here 11 years ago.  Even at 64 you can get a policy from Pacific cross for less than 60,000 baht a year (5000 a month) for 5 Million baht coverage

Seems you have money, why would you not get health insurance in country? 

Edited November 25, 2021 by Skallywag

[BritManToo]

4 minutes ago, Skallywag said:

why would you not get health insurance in country? 

Because Thai insurance is not worth the paper it's written on.

I had one when I first arrived, I had an accident, they didn't pay.

(from the green bank)

Edited November 25, 2021 by BritManToo

[Troy Tempest]

2 hours ago, Skallywag said:

You should have started buying health insurance here 11 years ago.  Even at 64 you can get a policy from Pacific cross for less than 60,000 baht a year (5000 a month) for 5 Million baht coverage

Seems you have money, why would you not get health insurance in country? 

See Britman's Comment above.

 

I used to travel back to the UK every year for a few months (Before Covid) and I am wealthy enough to self-insure for most things!

 

However, I did take out Health insurance recently because of the covid situation with a company I cannot mention because of the defamation laws here......

 

But, it was with a "Broker" who's name rhymes with the name of a large Black Cat and the Insurance Company name would rhyme with an alternative name for a "Dried Plum"! ......I am sure you will guess who I am talking about (even if you don't do crosswords)?

 

But, on September 9th I suffered severe chest pain and thought I may be having a heart attack so I went to the nearest Hospital (which is one of the larger Private Hospital Groups) in Thailand and after many tests spent the night "Wired-Up" in ICU....

 

Next morning I was feeling okay so I discharged myself against their advice/wishes and to date (fingers crossed) have remained well.

 

The bill was 67,960 THB

 

I am still awaiting compensation despite numerous calls and emails to both the Broker and The Insurance Company!

 

Conclusion: Never buy Health Insurance from a Thai Company!

 

I welcome your replies now! 

 

 

[beau thai]

3 hours ago, Skallywag said:

You should have started buying health insurance here 11 years ago.  Even at 64 you can get a policy from Pacific cross for less than 60,000 baht a year (5000 a month) for 5 Million baht coverage

Seems you have money, why would you not get health insurance in country? 

I thought the same as you until I reached a significant round number birthday, and Cigna jacked up my premium by a factor of 3. No claims, no tests - they just said I had arrived at a higher risk pool!

 

Which, when you think about it, is a self fulfilling prophecy, as only those anticipating severe illness would remain, when faced with such a huge increase.  So their pricing promotes selection-against.

 

A very uncreative response to a problem that they could address in many different ways (mandatory comprehensive health checks, higher deductible, higher co-pay, exclusions etc etc). Any approach that doesnt fit you through their 'sausage machine' and implies a degree of bespoke cover is not in their toolbag.

 

Most health insurers at the outset will guarantee continued cover but none (as far as I know) will guarantee not to price you out, with huge increases. So self insurance is not as daft as it seems

 

Caveat emptor.  They want your money but not your claims. Someone has to pay for their nice buildings, directors fees/cars, and large staff numbers. YOU!

[Will B Good]

How, if at all, is your plight changed if you were to marry your gf?

[meechai]

22 hours ago, Troy Tempest said:

Conclusion: Never buy Health Insurance from a Thai Company!

True that & there are enough stories to know it is a reality but..........

That aside you should check with a good broker & buy international (Not Thai) based insurance

Last I checked with Wim at AA Insurance brokers earlier this year April My Health International was cheaper than Thai April & did not even require a checkup

a 500k USD policy for your age is 73k baht a year

That is the start & I'm sure can be less if you raise a deductible

 

Because as you said

On 11/24/2021 at 4:19 PM, Troy Tempest said:

let's hope this Pandemic subsides, although I think we all know it won't ever go away?

So as such it is plenty likely that eventually some form of health insurance will be required by immigration

of all visa extension holders...It is only a matter of time

Edited November 26, 2021 by meechai

[GammaGlobulin]

On 11/25/2021 at 10:47 AM, BritManToo said:

Because Thai insurance is not worth the paper it's written on.

I had one when I first arrived, I had an accident, they didn't pay.

(from the green bank)

Same with all health insurance.

 

You pay, and pay.

 

Do you ever get what you paid for?

[Gandtee]

Troy Tempest- Your chances at 64 are better than mine. Insurance is available up to 75 with some companies. But for me at 88, I think the chances of being able to return to my family and home after 34 years here in Thailand are non existent, should I leave to visit my children and grandchildren scattered around the world.☹️

[superal]

On 11/25/2021 at 9:24 AM, tonray said:

Go and come back with a 30 day visa exempt and you need to buy 30 days of health insurance (as it stands now). Maybe in July nothing. Before your 30 days is up apply for an O Visa conversion (90 days) and then before that expires...your standard annual retirement extension (which I assume you are already familiar with).....30 day policy is all you need.

ok if he still has the 800k in the bank otherwise a possible drawn out affair with an agent  ? Also a return flight ticket UK to Thailand  to UK ?

[tonray]

9 minutes ago, superal said:

ok if he still has the 800k in the bank otherwise a possible drawn out affair with an agent  ? Also a return flight ticket UK to Thailand  to UK ?

I don't see any issues with using the 800K. I plan to do the same when my current OA extension runs out next October. Come back in with an exempt and so on and so forth.

[Headgame]

I’m now 77 and am, for practical purposes, priced out of health coverage. Fortunately in excellent health, verified recently by a complete medical at the BKK Hospital. If insurance becomes mandatory for non o retirement extensions, I’m screwed unless they make provision for THB in the bank. As long as it wasn’t tens of millions of baht, I’d be ok. Maybe there will be some sort of grandfather provision although unlikely.

Choices - very few - return to Canada no / move to neighboring country probably. But it would be a bummer since I’ve built a nice life for myself here and consider TH home. Not sure my gf would want to be far away from her family and I don’t want to be far away from her.

 

For now, just not worrying about the unknown but for sure I’m not leaving TH for fear of not getting back in.

 

if my family and friends want to see me, buy a ticket.

[wombat]

On 11/25/2021 at 9:33 AM, ezzra said:

 leaving in Thailand 

this mortal coil?

(sorry, couldn't resist)

[kennw]

On 11/25/2021 at 9:56 AM, tonray said:

Taking you on for 30 days will not be an issue....simply listed as pre-existing and non-covered conditions on your policy.

Retirees returning to Thailand are required to have a covid cover insurance from the day you re-enter up to the date of renewal of your retirement extension. 30 days is not an option unless your return date is within the extension renewal date. For many they may need 3 months, 6 month or even up to one year insurance coverage. Please read the rule carefully 

[soi3eddie]

On 11/25/2021 at 2:56 AM, tonray said:

Taking you on for 30 days will not be an issue....simply listed as pre-existing and non-covered conditions on your policy.

I did that on the Thai AXA policy and it seems just ticking the box for any pre-existing condition denies you the insurance. Best just to not list any conditions and get 30 day cover solely as means for re-entry to Thailand. I bought the 37 days needed for this trip and still got stamped in right up until expiry of my Non-O retirement extension in May 2022.

[soi3eddie]

16 minutes ago, kennw said:

Retirees returning to Thailand are required to have a covid cover insurance from the day you re-enter up to the date of renewal of your retirement extension. 30 days is not an option unless your return date is within the extension renewal date. For many they may need 3 months, 6 month or even up to one year insurance coverage. Please read the rule carefully 

I bought the 37 days needed for this trip and still got stamped in right up until expiry of my Non-O retirement extension in May 2022.

[Expat68]

On 11/25/2021 at 1:33 PM, Troy Tempest said:

See Britman's Comment above.

 

I used to travel back to the UK every year for a few months (Before Covid) and I am wealthy enough to self-insure for most things!

 

However, I did take out Health insurance recently because of the covid situation with a company I cannot mention because of the defamation laws here......

 

But, it was with a "Broker" who's name rhymes with the name of a large Black Cat and the Insurance Company name would rhyme with an alternative name for a "Dried Plum"! ......I am sure you will guess who I am talking about (even if you don't do crosswords)?

 

But, on September 9th I suffered severe chest pain and thought I may be having a heart attack so I went to the nearest Hospital (which is one of the larger Private Hospital Groups) in Thailand and after many tests spent the night "Wired-Up" in ICU....

 

Next morning I was feeling okay so I discharged myself against their advice/wishes and to date (fingers crossed) have remained well.

 

The bill was 67,960 THB

 

I am still awaiting compensation despite numerous calls and emails to both the Broker and The Insurance Company!

 

Conclusion: Never buy Health Insurance from a Thai Company!

 

I welcome your replies now! 

 

 

I have health insurance with a Thai company (could be same) went in for operation, stayed 6 nights before I checked out of the hospital, I got an itemized bill, how much they pay/I pay, paid, easy peasy

 

 

[Bruno123]

On 11/25/2021 at 6:33 AM, Troy Tempest said:

See Britman's Comment above.

 

I used to travel back to the UK every year for a few months (Before Covid) and I am wealthy enough to self-insure for most things!

 

However, I did take out Health insurance recently because of the covid situation with a company I cannot mention because of the defamation laws here......

 

But, it was with a "Broker" who's name rhymes with the name of a large Black Cat and the Insurance Company name would rhyme with an alternative name for a "Dried Plum"! ......I am sure you will guess who I am talking about (even if you don't do crosswords)?

 

But, on September 9th I suffered severe chest pain and thought I may be having a heart attack so I went to the nearest Hospital (which is one of the larger Private Hospital Groups) in Thailand and after many tests spent the night "Wired-Up" in ICU....

 

Next morning I was feeling okay so I discharged myself against their advice/wishes and to date (fingers crossed) have remained well.

 

The bill was 67,960 THB

 

I am still awaiting compensation despite numerous calls and emails to both the Broker and The Insurance Company!

 

Conclusion: Never buy Health Insurance from a Thai Company!

 

I welcome your replies now! 

 

 

Are you sure?

Okay.....my guess it that you ignored the part of the policy that tells you to inform them before you check yourself into a hospital as an in-patient.

 

Looks like you checked yourself in on a whim and you checked yourself out in the same manner.

Every medical insurance policy I have utilised, states that you should contact them if the bill is likely to be over a certain amount. I am guessing that your bill is above that certain amount.

 

What happens is that you contact them and they, with your permission, liaise with the relevant department at the hospital. If all okay; they provide guarantee for your bill. 

The fact that you paid the bill yourself before leaving and again left without being discharged by the hospital, tells me that you likely did not do any of the things requested for your claim to be valid and now you are paying for your 'independent' behaviour.

 

Of course I am not in possession of all of the facts; so it's just an educated guess.

 

[Bruno123]

6 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Same with all health insurance.

 

You pay, and pay.

 

Do you ever get what you paid for?

Yes. I cannot say that I have recouped all of my premiums over the years; maybe yes, maybe no. But they have always paid up and don't go the cheap route either.

Even now I am receiving treatment at the most expensive hospital around here; paid for directly through having an insurance policy.

I could afford to pay for myself; but this treatment alone exceeds the cost of the policy.

 

 

[Freddy42OZ]

It's not the end of the world if I can never leave Thailand.   

I'm already interacting with friends and family around the world in Virtual Reality and the Metaverse.

[tonray]

1 hour ago, kennw said:

Retirees returning to Thailand are required to have a covid cover insurance from the day you re-enter up to the date of renewal of your retirement extension. 30 days is not an option unless your return date is within the extension renewal date. For many they may need 3 months, 6 month or even up to one year insurance coverage. Please read the rule carefully 

When you come in on a visa exempt as we are discussing here that would mean 30 days coverrage only. Please read carefully

[clokwise]

I don't understand the hate for Thai insurance companies. I'm 56 and have paying for a Thai insurance policy for over 11 years for 5 million baht health inpatient coverage, and also limited outpatient coverage. I've made several claims over the years for inpatient services, many of which were agreed and settled by the insurance company even before the hospital did the requisite weight and heart rate test. They even compensate me for salary lost due to time spent in the hospital, which is nil because I'm self employed but, still, it's a nice gesture. Never once has the insurance company even grumbled about not paying out. Perhaps they are biding their time until I make a huge claim, but hopefully I will never find out.

 

My understanding is that health insurance costs more the later in life you begin the coverage. If you retired at 46 I assume you still have the funds to pay for insurance, even if it's more costly for you. Not everyone has had bad experiences with Thai insurance and for peace of mind, and visa security, you should probably just get it.

 

[HAPPYNUFF]

Like many, I am now  virtually trapped forever  here in Thailand.    I can leave of course and return to my own country,  but   would  never be allowed to reenter, under the present restrictions, as insurance for me is simply out of the question, due to age and  existing health   matters.     Ive  accepted this,  so Im just going to enjoy the rest of my time and try not to think , or worry about something I cant  fix.... I just wish the  price of  a decent  wine  would  come down, so I can have just a little  peace.!!!