'Do your own research / I do my own research' has become code for conspiracy theory followers

[Andre0720]

On 12/5/2021 at 8:15 PM, ozimoron said:

I'm might be one of the regressives because I don't really understand your point but I'll have a go.

 

All intellectual propositions fall into three categories, truth, lies or don't know. There can't be two contradictory versions of the truth. One has to be a lie.

Perhaps a better wording would be: ' three categories, true, false or don't know.' So one has to be false....

[zzaa09]

3 hours ago, charmonman said:

There is a difference between a conspiracy that is real and conspiracy theories, most of which depend on tenuous and impossible to prove connections between unrelated events and people.

Obviously there are real conspiracies as well as lunatic fringe conspiracy theories. Don’t muddle the two.

Largely dependent on the quality and personal righteousness of the research and predisposed spin. 

Everyone has their own particular flavour of Kool-Aid. 

[Fat is a type of crazy]

19 minutes ago, talahtnut said:

Fair enough in US, but UK death rate is higher among the vaxed than the unvaxed,

a puzzling and somewhat ignored problem.

It's not ignored. I googled it and found an answer in a minute. It's because the huge majority in the UK are vaccinated - particularly older people. Let us say 95 per cent of old people are vaccinated. Some will still die of Covid. The risk is much higher in the other 5 per cent but there's much less of them.  Proportionally more unvaccinated die. 

Vaccines are not perfect. They clearly work though. 

 

[blackprince]

6 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

 Proportionally more unvaccinated die. 

Vaccines are not perfect. They clearly work though. 

 

Reuters fact check agrees with you.

Fact Check-Vaccinated people in Britain are not dying at a higher rate than the unvaccinated

 

"The number of COVID-19 deaths, when adjusted proportionally to show the rate per 100,000 people, is higher in the unvaccinated population than the vaccinated population."

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-coronavirus-britain-idUSL1N2RP28I

[blackprince]

Earlier today I mentioned the correlation between PTSD and ICU in the context of covid.

 

Imagine my suprise when the Guardian published a story about PTSD and covid a couple of hours later. Serendepity or what!

 

"The NHS forecasts that nationally, there will be 230,000 new cases of PTSD as a result of Covid-19."

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/07/covid-ptsd-cases-mental-health-crisis-early-intervention-trauma-uk

Edited December 7, 2021 by blackprince

[placeholder]

14 minutes ago, teacherofwoe said:

Is there a typhus vaccine?

Not currently. What typhus does show is how symptoms from an infection can change over time. Around 400 BC, Thucydides, the great Greek historian, described in meticulous detail the symptoms of a plague that led to Athens losing the war against Sparta. Up until recently there was a debate about the disease was because no current disease matched the descriptions of the symptoms. But once DNA technology developed sufficiently, some bones of those who died in the plague were sampled for DNA. It turns out that the disease was typhus.

[talahtnut]

8 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

It's not ignored. I googled it and found an answer in a minute. It's because the huge majority in the UK are vaccinated - particularly older people. Let us say 95 per cent of old people are vaccinated. Some will still die of Covid. The risk is much higher in the other 5 per cent but there's much less of them.  Proportionally more unvaccinated die. 

Vaccines are not perfect. They clearly work though. 

 

Yes, agreed, I can see that, but what about a younger age range, this graph is from the UK Office of National statistics.

[LosLobo]

10 minutes ago, talahtnut said:

Yes, agreed, I can see that, but what about a younger age range, this graph is from the UK Office of National statistics.

Your data looks a bit dodgy. Here is the latest version!

[Fat is a type of crazy]

4 minutes ago, talahtnut said:

Yes, agreed, I can see that, but what about a younger age range, this graph is from the UK Office of National statistics.

Interesting figures. The article Black Prince quoted above from Reuters a few posts up does have an explanation. It is that most vaccinated people are at the older end of the 10 to 59 age group while many in the younger age group are not vaccinated in that time period.

So you might be comparing an average age of 45 or 50 for the vaccinated to 25 to 30 for the unvaccinated which skews the figures. The older age group would normally be many more times likely to die of an illness such as covid.  

I think you can find anomalies here and there but if you look overall in multiple countries there is no doubt that the vaccinated are much safer. 

[LarrySR]

46 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

 

And we all had IQs higher than 120.

Amazing.

[LosLobo]

14 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

Interesting figures. The article Black Prince quoted above from Reuters a few posts up does have an explanation. It is that most vaccinated people are at the older end of the 10 to 59 age group while many in the younger age group are not vaccinated in that time period.

So you might be comparing an average age of 45 or 50 for the vaccinated to 25 to 30 for the unvaccinated which skews the figures. The older age group would normally be many more times likely to die of an illness such as covid.  

I think you can find anomalies here and there but if you look overall in multiple countries there is no doubt that the vaccinated are much safer. 

3 December 2021 Update of that article from Black Prince 

 

"Social media users have taken mortality data for England out of context to falsely claim it shows COVID-19 vaccines are causing deaths."

 

Fact Check-England’s death data does not show ‘vaccine-caused mortality’ | Reuters

[Stevemercer]

I agree. It seems to be part of the post modern era whereby how people feel about things is more important that the cold hard facts.

 

It is disturbing to talk to people who, outwardly, seem reasonable, but believe the holocaust never happened, 9/11 never happened, the moon landings never happened etc. 

 

It is dangerous because such thinking (anti-scientific) will lead mankind backwards into an age of superstition, intolerance, war and hatred.

 

It's hard to believe that there are still many people in western societies (including celebrities) who believe the earth is flat. Do they believe the moon and the sun are also flat? Or is Earth unique in this respect?

[BritManToo]

9 minutes ago, Stevemercer said:

I agree. It seems to be part of the post modern era whereby how people feel about things is more important that the cold hard facts.

 

It is disturbing to talk to people who, outwardly, seem reasonable, but believe the holocaust never happened, 9/11 never happened, the moon landings never happened etc. 

 

It is dangerous because such thinking (anti-scientific) will lead mankind backwards into an age of superstition, intolerance, war and hatred.

 

It's hard to believe that there are still many people in western societies (including celebrities) who believe the earth is flat. Do they believe the moon and the sun are also flat? Or is Earth unique in this respect?

Most of these ideas are irrelevant to our lives and just don't matter.

Did the holocaust happen, I don't really care.

Did 9/11 happen, I'm not American it doesn't affect me.

Moon landings, well they can't get there now so it's irrelevant.

Is the earth flat, if I don't travel in circles around it, why would I care.

 

What most people choose to believe is not that important as most people don't have any say in how the world is run. Obey the people in power, keep your head down, and your life will be fine no matter what you choose to believe or doubt.

Edited December 7, 2021 by BritManToo

[BananaBandit]

On 12/6/2021 at 4:57 AM, BritManToo said:

As a Brit that used to work in the media, I can clearly state the UK media is absolutely dominated by the security forces.

 

Virtually no modern western media venue (that pays a salary) would allow its contributors to express the viewpoints you tend to express on this forum.

 

This leads me to think of three possible scenarios:

 

1. Your post-career viewpoints have changed drastically. 

 

2. Your viewpoints haven't changed much, but you used to conceal them for the sake of your media career. 

 

3. Many (perhaps even most) media people don't actually hold politically correct views, but they feel obligated to pretend.

 

Which is it?

[BritManToo]

1 minute ago, BananaBandit said:

1. Your post-career viewpoints have changed drastically. 

2. Your viewpoints haven't changed much, but you used to conceal them for the sake of your media career. 

3. Many (perhaps even most) media people don't actually hold politically correct views, but they feel obligated to pretend.

 

Which is it?

I never discussed anything except work when I was at work.

And I could always be trusted to obey the edicts from the security chaps.

[talahtnut]

1 hour ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

Interesting figures. The article Black Prince quoted above from Reuters a few posts up does have an explanation. It is that most vaccinated people are at the older end of the 10 to 59 age group while many in the younger age group are not vaccinated in that time period.

So you might be comparing an average age of 45 or 50 for the vaccinated to 25 to 30 for the unvaccinated which skews the figures. The older age group would normally be many more times likely to die of an illness such as covid.  

I think you can find anomalies here and there but if you look overall in multiple countries there is no doubt that the vaccinated are much safer. 

Thank you for that, but Reuters and all MSM globally is owned/funded by

the same corporations that includes big pharma, along with Pfizer.

Which means that quoting stuff from any MSM is naturally biased toward the vaccine.

[allanos]

Psychologists agree that people with lower levels of education tend to be drawn to conspiracy theories. 

Conspiracy nuts are unable to differentiate between good sources and bad sources or credible sources and non-credible sources. 

They're looking for knowledge but do not necessarily have the IQ to be looking in the right places.

 

These definitions are exactly the same as the negative attributes which have been ascribed to the majority Brits who voted for Brexit.

 

Ergo, all Brexiteers are conspiracy theorists! Lol.

[placeholder]

17 minutes ago, talahtnut said:

Thank you for that, but Reuters and all MSM globally is owned/funded by

the same corporations that includes big pharma, along with Pfizer.

Which means that quoting stuff from any MSM is naturally biased toward the vaccine.

And also the Socialist State of Texas is biased too

 

Key Findings

1. From September 4 through October 1, 2021:
   • Unvaccinated people were 13 times more likely to become infected with COVID-19 than fully vaccinated people.
   • Unvaccinated people were 20 times more likely to experience COVID-19-associated death than fully vaccinated people.

https://www.dshs.texas.gov/immunize/covid19/data/vaccination-status.aspx

[sezze]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

And also the Socialist State of Texas is biased too

 

Key Findings

1. From September 4 through October 1, 2021:
   • Unvaccinated people were 13 times more likely to become infected with COVID-19 than fully vaccinated people.
   • Unvaccinated people were 20 times more likely to experience COVID-19-associated death than fully vaccinated people.

https://www.dshs.texas.gov/immunize/covid19/data/vaccination-status.aspx

His personal research on Facialbook told him that all offical instances do work together with the Big Pharma . If the local Plumbers Association would put a vaccine on the market it was prob all fine .

[AllanB]

This has nothing to do with being educated, it has everything to do with applying logic and if something doesn't make sense it isn't true.

 

Take something quite inoquous like climate change. We know they can build cars that do 250mpg, like the VW XL1 (320mpg) and Chevy Volt (240mpg), so where are they now? They would instantly cut emissions by 80% at no cost, but.... would severely damage the oil industry.

 

Go fiigure... no conspiracy theory here just facts..

[sezze]

15 minutes ago, allanos said:

Psychologists agree that people with lower levels of education tend to be drawn to conspiracy theories. 

Conspiracy nuts are unable to differentiate between good sources and bad sources or credible sources and non-credible sources. 

They're looking for knowledge but do not necessarily have the IQ to be looking in the right places.

 

These definitions are exactly the same as the negative attributes which have been ascribed to the majority Brits who voted for Brexit.

 

Ergo, all Brexiteers are conspiracy theorists! Lol.

True but not the last phrase . Since not all Brexiteers are conspiracy theorists , same like not all anti vaxxers are conspiracy theorists . Or all on the other side are smart and educated which is also not true . Generalization is wrong , some prob had very valid reasons for choosing something and some are prob very right to choose a certain way .

Imagine having a company who does help companies or people with paperwork for Customs . If i had that kind of company , and i lived in UK , i could certainly benefit from it .

[blackprince]

41 minutes ago, talahtnut said:

Thank you for that, but Reuters and all MSM globally is owned/funded by

the same corporations that includes big pharma, along with Pfizer.

Which means that quoting stuff from any MSM is naturally biased toward the vaccine.

That's a bit of a generalisation about who owns the MSM.

 

The most well known owners of MSM like Murdoch are hard core right.

 

The Guardian is owned by an independet trust, its editorial content is its own affair.

 

The BBC is a public broadcaster with a charter to ensure independence.

 

But apart from that many msm outlets have a variety of writers who have a variety of views.

 

How about investigative journalism?

 

How about Oxford Uni stipulating that its IP for the AZ vaccine must be waived until the pandemic is under control?

 

The idea that all the MSM is biased towards the vaccine just doesn't hold up.

 

[sezze]

9 minutes ago, AllanB said:

This has nothing to do with being educated, it has everything to do with applying logic and if something doesn't make sense it isn't true.

 

Take something quite inoquous like climate change. We know they can build cars that do 250mpg, like the VW XL1 (320mpg) and Chevy Volt (240mpg), so where are they now? They would instantly cut emissions by 80% at no cost, but.... would severely damage the oil industry.

 

Go fiigure... no conspiracy theory here just facts..

They would not , since the cars mentioned are or very testcars ( VW XL1 ) to see what is possible , but not for real life driving . The Chevy Volt is just a plug in hybrid , meaning the MPG is when you put your battery full and then drive a certain distance when the car basically does not start the fuel engine .

Electric cars in that way have 100% cut emissions , but that is a short version . The longer version is that the electric made has to come from somewhere creating emissions there . Also making the battery does cost a lot more energy then creating the engine .

100% solar cars are also made and raced every year , but they are not your daily drive .

In order to get something from A->B you need power in some kind of form . The higher the speed or weight the more power it needs for that . This can be calculated . Also the fuel does have a certain amount of power /l or Gallon inside .

It is not that easy to say "but they made a car which can run 10.000 MPG" that it is a car which you can use on a daily basis .

https://phys.org/news/2011-04-miles-gallon-shell-eco-marathon.html

And for the oil industry , at least 50% of the oil will always be needed , even if you do not fuel anything for transport or power or heat . They need it for just about anything in the world . From plastics over medicines over colors over all kind of food production ...... you can't imagine how far the cycle goes .

[Will B Good]

8 hours ago, teacherofwoe said:

Is there a typhus vaccine?

No idea

[LarrySR]

Doing your own research and trafficking in crackpot health conspiracies is deadly business.

According to the head of the Covid task force at the WH, Dr. Deborah Birx said that "over 300,000 lives could've been saved in the USA if the leadership had  followed scientific recommendations and measures promoted by experts... probably could have decreased fatalities into the 30% less to 40% less range." 

 

Instead the leadership mismanaged the crisis by dealing in crackpot conspiracy theories and gave out bad information on a daily basis, even recently boasting: "I did the opposite of what the doctors recommended."

 

 

[Captain Monday]

They do their own research 

They all come to the same conclusions

Why?

Propaganda

 

[pomchop]

For those who want mandates cancelled:

 

[Fat is a type of crazy]

11 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Most of these ideas are irrelevant to our lives and just don't matter.

Did the holocaust happen, I don't really care.

Did 9/11 happen, I'm not American it doesn't affect me.

Moon landings, well they can't get there now so it's irrelevant.

Is the earth flat, if I don't travel in circles around it, why would I care.

 

What most people choose to believe is not that important as most people don't have any say in how the world is run. Obey the people in power, keep your head down, and your life will be fine no matter what you choose to believe or doubt.

I think there are a range of reasons to state that the ideas and facts in your post do matter and do affect our lives. 

If I witness a murder it will affect me if I care or not. I may, by just using logic, decide that it is best to have laws to stop murder and that it is best that the truth about that murder is reported. It gives security. It gives a sense of a better future. 

You may feel that caring means you have been manipulated which is a slippery slope to political correctness.  You care for your kids. If others care a bit more broadly it may not be a weakness. 

Putting caring aside, how about the benefits and pleasure of thinking and utilising your intelligence. With no or little intellectual effort you can safely conclude that the things in your list did happen and the earth is not flat.  Not so long ago there were no flights, no vaccines, no knowledge of how most things worked. It can be fun and beneficial to defend the scientific method of thought and to utilise them in your own thinking.  

 

 

 

Edited December 8, 2021 by Fat is a type of crazy

[Stevemercer]

11 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Most of these ideas are irrelevant to our lives and just don't matter.

Did the holocaust happen, I don't really care.

Did 9/11 happen, I'm not American it doesn't affect me.

Moon landings, well they can't get there now so it's irrelevant.

Is the earth flat, if I don't travel in circles around it, why would I care.

 

What most people choose to believe is not that important as most people don't have any say in how the world is run. Obey the people in power, keep your head down, and your life will be fine no matter what you choose to believe or doubt.

Fair enough. Except that those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat the same mistakes. Whether it is in one's own life or a country.

 

I think that is why Thailand is doomed to keep going around in cycles. Thai society never acknowledges or learns from the mistakes of the past and will keep repeating them in endless cycles. Keep the people ignorant so those in power can stay in power!

[BritManToo]

2 minutes ago, Stevemercer said:

Keep the people ignorant so those in power can stay in power!

I've always thought the bulk of the population would remain ignorant no matter what anyone did.

But would anyone be happier if they weren't ignorant? I doubt it.

All I ever wanted was a home to live in, food on the table, and my family around me.

A little bit of entertainment and a bottle of alcohol to make my happiness complete.

'The truth' isn't that important in my life.