"Please help me get my brother home": A family's desperate plea after 44-year-old dies suddenly days after arriving in Thailand for winter holiday

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, possum1931 said:

Why is fine print in anything in the first place? They are hoping that people won't notice it and that can be used to their advantage.

I see it differently, e.g. Most consumers such as yourself would consider a fine print to be a disclaimer, however, I see them as wording that usually contains the terms and conditions of a contract, i.e. the important things you need to know about, and the fine prints to me tell me very clearly what won't be covered, as an example, in the policy you read motorcycle coverage $10,000, but fine print on that travel insurance policy might say we the insurer will not cover you if you ride a motor scooter above 125cc, are not licensed to ride in that country, do not wear a helmet, were speeding at the time of the accident, failed to stop at a red light, etc etc, well that has just told me of something that I wasn't aware of as the policy earlier on said motorbike coverage, in part it is true, but hey, you have to read on to get to the crux of it, it's basically with every single contract you sign.

 

All contracts have fine prints, it's just the way things are and it is up to us to read the whole policy and in particular the fine prints because that is basically telling you what is excluded or what they won't cover you for, or up to what they will cover you for.

 

Anyone thinking insurance is just pay and your covered is naive in my opinion, even myself, e.g. I never knew that private health cover under an emergency could not be claimed unless you spent 24 hours in the hospital, e.g. you fell off your motorbike, broke your arm, I consider than an emergency and would go to the hospital and after being released, probably after a couple of hours and say 10,000 baht hospital costs, make a claim, but not knowing they would knock it back because an emergency is only considered after a 24 hour stay in the hospital under the fine print, not that this has happened to me, but by reading the fine print, I learn something before singing the policy.

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, Chris.B said:

????

Off to bed you go then, no need to bore me.

[NoshowJones]

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

I see it differently, e.g. Most consumers such as yourself would consider a fine print to be a disclaimer, however, I see them as wording that usually contains the terms and conditions of a contract, i.e. the important things you need to know about, and the fine prints to me tell me very clearly what won't be covered, as an example, in the policy you read motorcycle coverage $10,000, but fine print on that travel insurance policy might say we the insurer will not cover you if you ride a motor scooter above 125cc, are not licensed to ride in that country, do not wear a helmet, were speeding at the time of the accident, failed to stop at a red light, etc etc, well that has just told me of something that I wasn't aware of as the policy earlier on said motorbike coverage, in part it is true, but hey, you have to read on to get to the crux of it, it's basically with every single contract you sign.

 

All contracts have fine prints, it's just the way things are and it is up to us to read the whole policy and in particular the fine prints because that is basically telling you what is excluded or what they won't cover you for, or up to what they will cover you for.

 

Anyone thinking insurance is just pay and your covered is naive in my opinion, even myself, e.g. I never knew that private health cover under an emergency could not be claimed unless you spent 24 hours in the hospital, e.g. you fell off your motorbike, broke your arm, I consider than an emergency and would go to the hospital and after being released, probably after a couple of hours and say 10,000 baht hospital costs, make a claim, but not knowing they would knock it back because an emergency is only considered after a 24 hour stay in the hospital under the fine print, not that this has happened to me, but by reading the fine print, I learn something before singing the policy.

We will just have to agree to disagree on this.

[steven100]

2 hours ago, CartagenaWarlock said:

Why people in this board are so upset about a family raising money to bring their loved ones home. Nobody is asking them for money. If the family can raise money, it is good for them. 

they are not upset.  why does one come to thailand and no insurance ?    and the family cannot muster up 5,000 pound. ?

 

 

[Puccini]

12 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

...My take on this is that governments should stop pussy footing around and make it mandatory for those travelling to their countries to have some kind of travel insurance...

To get the Thailand Pass, ie permission to fly to Thailand, he had to show proof of a health insurance with a minimum cover of USD 50,000. The hospital should collect from the Insurance company.

[Blumpie]

10 hours ago, The Hammer2021 said:

Our respect for the dead and their memories is what separates us from animals and barbarians

What happens to this body that I inhabit ends when I die.  It has nothing to do with respect for the dead.  The body is finished, done.  Cremate me there.  Nothing disrespectful about that, or tossing me in a common grave.  I just don't care really.  

If I"m not cremated the worms will eat me.  

We are all just passing through here, this isn't our home.  We're going to eternal blackness or whatever each individual thinks.  Or another body.  Maybe I'll be an ant and you can step on me!  

[Blumpie]

By the way, whatever it costs to repatriate his remains will come out of his estate anyways eventually.  

 

Are these people thinking that they can just bank the money?  Just send his body home.  Cremate him there and pick his ashes later.  

 

Nah, I would never contribute to a cause like this.  With people starving to death around the world, dying of preventable diseases I don't think that their family has thought this through.  Respect given to them though, they aren't thinking straight either I bet.  IT's a huge shock.  

[Liverpool Lou]

5 hours ago, Burma Bill said:

Yes, I fully read the link. I did not refer to him being a Muslim. I was referring in general terms as Islam being a religion where cremation is not practiced.  

Yes, I know that you referred to Islam, the Muslim religion, two things that are are inextricably linked.    What are the chances that followers of Islam would not be Muslim?

[Liverpool Lou]

5 hours ago, possum1931 said:

I suppose insurance companies legal Jargon could maybe say it isn't, when they are doing their usual trying to avoid paying out any claims.

That's b_ollocks, insurers do not try to avoid paying valid claims.

[Liverpool Lou]

5 hours ago, possum1931 said:

Of course, is that not what they all do? They are all very quick to take your money, but it is a different story when someone makes a claim, fine print and legal jargon spring to mind.

Typical Thaivisa garbage.

[Liverpool Lou]

5 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

There is more to this story than we are being fed, A) We know he died, B) Insurance didn't cover him and C) But we don't know what he died from. 

C)  It has been confirmed that he was in hospital being treated for a heart attack so it's not unreasonable to presume that he died as a result of a heart attack.

Edited December 12, 2021 by Liverpool Lou

[Liverpool Lou]

5 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

I dislike it when I read of such BS, I have NEVER had an insurer refuse me from a claim, that said, if you read the fine print, know what you are insured for and play by the rules and of course pay for the policy then you shouldn't have a problem.

 

The above said, those bitten by insurers had obviously not done their due diligence when taking out their policy, otherwise why would they be complaining without any examples/reasons ? 

Absolutely, but Thaivisa members don't approve of rational arguments like that!

[it is what it is]

 

this is a bit of an eye opener, that someone who is a chef, a decent enough job, has worked 60 hours a week all summer and yet after paying for his holiday in thailand has zero assets in thailand or back home. and his family and friends have no assets either. a lesson for us all, financial planning is important because you never know what's going to happen.

[Liverpool Lou]

5 hours ago, ThaiSmarterThanYou said:

why paying hospital ? would they keep the corpse if not paid ? Seems so impossible... I would just tell them to get F.....

 

It's his repatriation that has to be paid for also and if no one will pay his medical bills there's every reason to believe that they would not release the body, that's what mortuaries are used for, keeping corpses.  That would be the hospital's way of giving you a reciprocal "get F.....".

Edited December 12, 2021 by Liverpool Lou

[Liverpool Lou]

5 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

One has to wonder if his certificate was a fraud.

...or if he had a pre-existing condition, or if he contravened the conditions of his policy.

[Liverpool Lou]

4 hours ago, Stubby said:

Tiny print, incomprehensible jargon, and confusing terms are not in these contracts by accident.

None of those are in insurance policy conditions these days, particularly the first one.   Can you show an example of current travel/health insurance policy conditions printed using "tiny" font that's obviously much smaller than any other font size, and "incomprehensible jargon?   Of course, you can't.

Edited December 12, 2021 by Liverpool Lou

[Liverpool Lou]

4 hours ago, possum1931 said:

Why is fine print in anything in the first place? They are hoping that people won't notice it and that can be used to their advantage.

"Why is fine print in anything in the first place?"

There isn't.  The thing is that "the fine print" is a figure of speech and, these days, insurance policy conditions are not printed that way because it is not permitted.    Maybe, though, you can show an example that is obviously much smaller and more difficult to read than the rest of the print on a current travel/health insurance policy. 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Liverpool Lou

[Liverpool Lou]

4 hours ago, Pdavies99 said:

Something sounds wrong here?

 

Under current rules he must have had insurance?

Perhaps he voided the policy somehow?

[NoshowJones]

36 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

That's b_ollocks, insurers do not try to avoid paying valid claims.

You are biased because you use to work in insurance, my wife also works in insurance.

[Liverpool Lou]

3 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

I see it differently, e.g. Most consumers such as yourself would consider a fine print to be a disclaimer, however, I see them as wording that usually contains the terms and conditions of a contract, i.e. the important things you need to know about, and the fine prints to me tell me very clearly what won't be covered, as an example, in the policy you read motorcycle coverage $10,000, but fine print on that travel insurance policy might say we the insurer will not cover you if you ride a motor scooter above 125cc, are not licensed to ride in that country, do not wear a helmet, were speeding at the time of the accident, failed to stop at a red light, etc etc, well that has just told me of something that I wasn't aware of as the policy earlier on said motorbike coverage, in part it is true, but hey, you have to read on to get to the crux of it, it's basically with every single contract you sign.

 

All contracts have fine prints, it's just the way things are and it is up to us to read the whole policy and in particular the fine prints because that is basically telling you what is excluded or what they won't cover you for, or up to what they will cover you for.

 

Anyone thinking insurance is just pay and your covered is naive in my opinion, even myself, e.g. I never knew that private health cover under an emergency could not be claimed unless you spent 24 hours in the hospital, e.g. you fell off your motorbike, broke your arm, I consider than an emergency and would go to the hospital and after being released, probably after a couple of hours and say 10,000 baht hospital costs, make a claim, but not knowing they would knock it back because an emergency is only considered after a 24 hour stay in the hospital under the fine print, not that this has happened to me, but by reading the fine print, I learn something before singing the policy.

You are absolutely right, except when you keep referring to "fine print".   On insurance policies that is just a figure of speech, policy conditions are printed in such a way as to be perfectly legible.

[Liverpool Lou]

3 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

40 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

That's b_ollocks, insurers do not try to avoid paying valid claims.

You are biased because you use to work in insurance, my wife also works in insurance.

And nothing that I comment re that is inaccurate.  Your claims are false, insurers do not try to deny valid claims, regulations covering insurers does not allow them to.

Edited December 12, 2021 by Liverpool Lou

[NoshowJones]

9 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

"Why is fine print in anything in the first place?"

There isn't.  The thing is that "the fine print" is a figure of speech and, these days, insurance policy conditions are not printed that way because it is not permitted.    Maybe, though, you can show an example that is obviously much smaller and more difficult to read than the rest of the print on a current travel/health insurance policy. 

Note the word "anything" I have not seen an insurance policy in years apart from my first class motorbike insurance, so you are saying there is no fine print in insurance policies today then. Is this in Thailand, The UK, or in general?

[LoeiI]

14 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

If he was free spirited why does his corpse have to be sent anywhere. Cremate him here and send his ashes home by DHL? he won't mind.

Agreed dont reckon he'll be that bothered either way 

[NoshowJones]

4 hours ago, possum1931 said:

Why is fine print in anything in the first place? They are hoping that people won't notice it and that can be used to their advantage.

Looks like a certain poster is outnumbered here. ????

[Liverpool Lou]

2 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

Note the word "anything" I have not seen an insurance policy in years apart from my first class motorbike insurance, so you are saying there is no fine print in insurance policies today then. Is this in Thailand, The UK, or in general?

Both, unless you can prove me wrong with a current travel/health insurance policy, in which case I'll get the humble pie ready and apologise. 

[Liverpool Lou]

Just now, possum1931 said:

Looks like a certain poster is outnumbered here. ????

Can't imagine who you're referring to but being outnumbered on Thaivisa is usually not a bad thing, some would say that it's a compliment.   An outnumbered balance of opinion doesn't mean that mass opinion is right. 

[Liverpool Lou]

3 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

Looks like a certain poster is outnumbered here. ????

Looks like certain posters cannot back up their claims, yet again.

[Nsp64]

Here we go again

[NoshowJones]

1 minute ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Both, unless you can prove me wrong with a current travel/health insurance policy, in which case I'll get the humble pie ready and apologise. 

I have already told you I have not had any insurance in recent years, that is why I used the word anything. Now this debate is over, I have more to do with my time than waste it with you. There will be no more answers. As I said this debate is over.

[3NUMBAS]

YOU CAN TAKE THE ASHES BACK ON THE PLANE SO ITS THE CHEAPEST OPTION IN HAND BAGGAGE