Question about the criminal clearance certificate for an O-A

[PadPrikKhing]

I'm probably not going the O-A route, but nonetheless this is a persistent and pretty important question that I never got answered months ago.

 

Does anyone here know if

A) Thai immigration authorities are able to distinguish and disregard expunged convictions? And if the answer is no,

B) whether there is a version of the criminal clearance document the O-A requires that can be obtained that does not show expunged misdemeanor convictions? 

 

I have a couple of 27-year-old misdemeanors on my record that have been expunged, which means that for all legal intents and purposes, they've been dismissed and are treated as if they didn't happen. But if I were to go get an FBI or California DOJ background report, I think that report will show these convictions, though they will have the notation "dismissed in the interests of justice." In did in fact obtain my own record before I got the expungement to see what the format would look like, and it was a raw data-readout type format that did show a secondary related misdemeanor charge that had been expunged at the time (1995). So I already know that this format shows expunged items.

 

What I want to know is, even though the convictions are expunged, would immigration simply glance at it and see that there is something there instead of a totally clear record, not even read it, and reflexively deny the O-A application? That would be my concern. Or is there a way to get a document from the FBI that states my record in a simple declarative format instead (i.e. "We have run a complete criminal background investigation on Joe Blow and we state that his record is clear of any criminal history")?

 

If not, I wonder if it is possible to submit an addendum document with the police clearance that clarifies the issue, essentially cautioning Thai immigration "Even though you see a couple of charges on this document, please be sure to note that they are expunged under US law and should be disregarded and treated as if non-existent."

 

Does anyone here have an example they could show of exactly what kind of document Thai immigration expects to see for these police clearance certificates? 

[sqwakvfr]

I have obtained several OA visa from a Thai Consulate and Thai Immigration does grant this visa.  I would obtain an FBI background check and see exactly what it shows.  A 27 year old misdemeanor conviction might not even show up even if it was not expunged.  

[PadPrikKhing]

1 minute ago, sqwakvfr said:

I have obtained several OA visa from a Thai Consulate and Thai Immigration does grant this visa.  I would obtain an FBI background check and see exactly what it shows.  A 27 year old misdemeanor conviction might not even show up even if it was not expunged.  

Well as I said, I already did obtain an FBI check, and it did show the charges. One of them had been dropped/expunged right away by the DA at the time, so it has been expunged since 1995, yet it showed up. These things stay on there forever, I already determined that a long time ago. What I want to know is whether Thai immigration understands what expunged charges are and will they act accordingly, or will they deny the visa application pedantically upon observing that there is something at all in the record.

 

The requirement on the LA consulate website is defined as a "Letter of verification stating that the applicant has no criminal record." This is tricky semantically, because it sounds like that is saying that they will only grant the visa to people with a clear and empty record. I don't really have "no criminal record" since I have expunged convictions, but it is legally free of convictions. Also, the Thai definition is saying "letter of verification," not "printout of federal criminal record data"—which is what I got from the FBI—but FBI and state DOJ offices don't issue "letters" to my knowledge... a letter sounds like something a human being would type out to inform another government in the form of a declarative summary. That would probably work well for me if I could get it, because in that format I think they might have to say that my record is clear, or at least say something like "these two existing convictions have been expunged by the court and should be disregarded."

[RichardColeman]

Meh, if worried too much,  come Thailand , get the visa via an agent. Never heard of any issues with convictions with an agent.

[sqwakvfr]

44 minutes ago, PadPrikKhing said:

Well as I said, I already did obtain an FBI check, and it did show the charges. One of them had been dropped/expunged right away by the DA at the time, so it has been expunged since 1995, yet it showed up. These things stay on there forever, I already determined that a long time ago. What I want to know is whether Thai immigration understands what expunged charges are and will they act accordingly, or will they deny the visa application pedantically upon observing that there is something at all in the record.

 

The requirement on the LA consulate website is defined as a "Letter of verification stating that the applicant has no criminal record." This is tricky semantically, because it sounds like that is saying that they will only grant the visa to people with a clear and empty record. I don't really have "no criminal record" since I have expunged convictions, but it is legally free of convictions. Also, the Thai definition is saying "letter of verification," not "printout of federal criminal record data"—which is what I got from the FBI—but FBI and state DOJ offices don't issue "letters" to my knowledge... a letter sounds like something a human being would type out to inform another government in the form of a declarative summary. That would probably work well for me if I could get it, because in that format I think they might have to say that my record is clear, or at least say something like "these two existing convictions have been expunged by the court and should be disregarded."

Thai Immigration does not issue the OA Visa.  The Thai Embassy/Consulate actually reviews and ultimately issues the visa.  Therefore, you can try and apply for the visa at the  Thai Consulate but the $200 application is nonrefundable.  You can also do what RichardColeman said and come to Thailand on a Tourist Visa and then apply for a Non Imm O Ext of Stay.  

 

Having dealt with the LA Thai Consulate for the last 5 years the concept of "semantics" and interpreting documents are highly unlikely.  If I were in your position I would not pursue the OA and instead go the Non O route once you get into Thailand on a Visa Exempt, STV or Tourist Visa.

 

I spent a career in Law Enforcement in many cases I have arrested suspects who had old misdemeanor convictions that were dropped  from their criminal conviction records.  I can't see why your 27 year old misdemeanor convictions are still on your record.  Were your arrested and convicted on minor and nonviolent offenses?  Also, were these convictions recently expunged?  Just somewhat curious.  

 

 

Edited December 18, 2021 by sqwakvfr

[PadPrikKhing]

Thanks sqwakvfr. I was spacing out there thinking that it's immigration... right, it's the consulate I would be needing to convince, if I were to do it.

 

Like I said, I'm really not intending to try for an O-A, it's just that I never got this question nailed down from way back, and it's always bothered me. Though admittedly it's irrelevant if I use another visa route. 

 

My plan currently is to go visa exempt, move immediately to find a place to rent and get a bank account; then get an extension on my exempt entry, do the bank business, apply for the non-O, then eventually get the retirement extension. Another option would be applying for a 60-day tourist visa as the first step, but if I do that I'll have to do the whole EVisa thing, which reports seem to indicate is a big hassle, on top of the Thailand Pass process. It sounds much easier to enter visa-exempt.

 

The only downside of visa-exempt I suppose is that it's 30 days less time in-country overall at the early stages, but with 30 days initially if I get a bank account immediately, let's say within the first week in country, and then transfer the funds in immediately too, that would still be getting that in place within the first 30 days. (Bear with me, I'm going through this in writing so I can get it straight in my mind.)

Then I can get a 30-day extension on the visa-exempt entry, if I'm not mistaken. Then, before that 30-day extension runs, I apply for the Non-O visa. I'd be able to show the 800K for that, and with the 90 days I get from that, it would be no problem to show that the money sat for more than 60 days when I go to apply for the 1-year extension. Do I have it all straight?

[sqwakvfr]

2 hours ago, PadPrikKhing said:

Thanks sqwakvfr. I was spacing out there thinking that it's immigration... right, it's the consulate I would be needing to convince, if I were to do it.

 

Like I said, I'm really not intending to try for an O-A, it's just that I never got this question nailed down from way back, and it's always bothered me. Though admittedly it's irrelevant if I use another visa route. 

 

My plan currently is to go visa exempt, move immediately to find a place to rent and get a bank account; then get an extension on my exempt entry, do the bank business, apply for the non-O, then eventually get the retirement extension. Another option would be applying for a 60-day tourist visa as the first step, but if I do that I'll have to do the whole EVisa thing, which reports seem to indicate is a big hassle, on top of the Thailand Pass process. It sounds much easier to enter visa-exempt.

 

The only downside of visa-exempt I suppose is that it's 30 days less time in-country overall at the early stages, but with 30 days initially if I get a bank account immediately, let's say within the first week in country, and then transfer the funds in immediately too, that would still be getting that in place within the first 30 days. (Bear with me, I'm going through this in writing so I can get it straight in my mind.)

Then I can get a 30-day extension on the visa-exempt entry, if I'm not mistaken. Then, before that 30-day extension runs, I apply for the Non-O visa. I'd be able to show the 800K for that, and with the 90 days I get from that, it would be no problem to show that the money sat for more than 60 days when I go to apply for the 1-year extension. Do I have it all straight?

1. You can apply an extension for a TR and even Visa Exempt

2. You can also contact a local Visa Agent for assistance(of course for a fee).

[ubonjoe]

You could also apply for a single entry non-o visa for retirement. You would need 90 days of medical insurance but you could use a travel insurance that meets the requirement for the visa and covid 19 needed for entry to the country.

Info is here: https://thaiconsulatela.org/en/non-o/

[PadPrikKhing]

10 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

You could also apply for a single entry non-o visa for retirement. You would need 90 days of medical insurance but you could use a travel insurance that meets the requirement for the visa and covid 19 needed for entry to the country.

Info is here: https://thaiconsulatela.org/en/non-o/

Thanks Joe, but is there any advantage to applying for it from the consulate before leaving? It seems like the way of going over visa exempt and then getting the Non-O from within Thailand is the most often-recommended way.

[CANSIAM]

24 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

You could also apply for a single entry non-o visa for retirement. You would need 90 days of medical insurance but you could use a travel insurance that meets the requirement for the visa and covid 19 needed for entry to the country.

Info is here: https://thaiconsulatela.org/en/non-o/

When did the OA application bank deposit go to 1.2 million ? 

Edited December 19, 2021 by CANSIAM

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, CANSIAM said:

When did the OA application bank deposit go to 1.2 million ? 

I didn't. That is an error on that page. If you look on another page on the site that still has 800k baht on it.

[ubonjoe]

11 minutes ago, PadPrikKhing said:

Thanks Joe, but is there any advantage to applying for it from the consulate before leaving? It seems like the way of going over visa exempt and then getting the Non-O from within Thailand is the most often-recommended way.

It was just a suggestion.

The problem with visa exempt is opening a bank account and you will only have 45 days to open the account and transfer the 800k baht before applying for the non-o visa at immigration that requires at least 15 days remaining on your entry to apply.

[DaLa]

I have just 1 'Caution' on my UK record from 14 years ago and it will never be removed. As others have suggested I used the 'O' extension based on retirement and my record was not required. 

 

The timescale on money in the bank can be resolved by an agent in the first year , thereinafter you can safely apply for further extensions with no mention of your record.

[PadPrikKhing]

59 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

It was just a suggestion.

The problem with visa exempt is opening a bank account and you will only have 45 days to open the account and transfer the 800k baht before applying for the non-o visa at immigration that requires at least 15 days remaining on your entry to apply.

Right, but if I succeed in getting a bank account right away like within a few days of arriving, it will all be good, no? I've been recommended an agent who I'm told can easily help me get the bank account. I don't mind paying for that if it's a reasonable fee and saves me from running around and burning a lot of time trying to do it by myself.

Edited December 19, 2021 by PadPrikKhing

[PadPrikKhing]

30 minutes ago, DaLa said:

I have just 1 'Caution' on my UK record from 14 years ago and it will never be removed. As others have suggested I used the 'O' extension based on retirement and my record was not required. 

 

The timescale on money in the bank can be resolved by an agent in the first year , thereinafter you can safely apply for further extensions with no mention of your record.

Right, thanks. I believe that's what I'll do too.

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, PadPrikKhing said:

Right, but if I succeed in getting a bank account right away like within a few days of arriving, it will all be good, no? I've been recommended an agent who I'm told can easily help me get the bank account. I don't mind paying for that if it's a reasonable fee and saves me from running around and burning a lot of time trying to do it by myself.

You can also apply for the 30 day extension of your visa exempt entry and then apply for the non-o visa.

If the agent can help et the account opened for a reasonable fee then it will not be a problem.

[Dsquared]

To the OP's original question:

I had a DUI from 1986 - which is listed as a misdemeanor in my state of Florida police report.

The LA consulate couldn't comprehend the timeline involved and that it's been long ago resolved - proven by my current unrestricted FL drivers license.

Later I applied with the Chicago consulate using a clear county level police report (the DUI occurred in another county). It was approved without question.

I don't think they know or care what level report they look at.

This year I visited Florida and returned visa exempt to apply for the non-O.

Much easier in my opinion.

[PadPrikKhing]

14 hours ago, Dsquared said:

To the OP's original question:

I had a DUI from 1986 - which is listed as a misdemeanor in my state of Florida police report.

The LA consulate couldn't comprehend the timeline involved and that it's been long ago resolved - proven by my current unrestricted FL drivers license.

Later I applied with the Chicago consulate using a clear county level police report (the DUI occurred in another county). It was approved without question.

I don't think they know or care what level report they look at.

This year I visited Florida and returned visa exempt to apply for the non-O.

Much easier in my opinion.

Holy khrap, and there's the answer I knew was there somewhere. You can even use a county report. Wow. Thanks.

[ubonjoe]

4 hours ago, PadPrikKhing said:

Holy khrap, and there's the answer I knew was there somewhere. You can even use a county report. Wow. Thanks.

I think that may of been before they changed the requirements. Not is states this for the OA visa.

"2.8 Criminal record (Letter of verification stating that the applicant has no criminal record (verification have to valid for not more than three months and must be issued from a state or Federal Bureau of Investigation only. Online criminal record without authorize signature is unacceptable)"

[sqwakvfr]

On 12/19/2021 at 10:33 AM, ubonjoe said:

I didn't. That is an error on that page. If you look on another page on the site that still has 800k baht on it.

Maybe not.  From the LA Consulate:

Non-Immigrant Visa Category “O-A” (long stay)

Holder of this type of visa is allowed to stay in Thailand for 1 year.
Employment of any kind is strictly prohibited.

Eligibility / Other required documents :

1. Applicant must be aged 50 years and over (on the day of submitting application).
2. Applicant not prohibited from entering the Kingdom as provided by the Immigration Act B.E. 2522 (1979).
3. Having the nationality of or residence in the country where applicant’s application is submitted.
    Copy of a certificate of residence (if applicable)

4. Insurance – Applicant must have a health insurance for the duration of stay, with coverage for covid-19 disease with the total sum insured of THB 3,000,000 (100,000 USD) per policy year.

• Health insurance policy document issued by a Thai or foreign insurance company, stating that the applicant is
  medically insured for the period and with coverage as mentioned above:
  (a)  Foreign insurance company, the applicant must submit the original insurance policy document with 2 copies;
  (b)  Thai insurance company, the applicant must submit 2 copies of the insurance policy document or, if available,
       the original insurance policy document with 2 copies.

   

• A list of Thai insurance companies participating in the scheme can be found here: http://longstay.tgia.org
• Foreign Insurance Certificate as stipulated by the Office of Insurance Commission and Health Insurance of Thailand,
  which must be completed, signed and stamped by the insurance company.

  The form can be downloaded here: Foreign Insurance Certificate Form

5. Criminal record
     – Letter of verification stating that the applicant has no criminal record
     – verification have to valid for not more than three months and
     – must be issued from a state or Federal Bureau of Investigation only.
     – Online criminal record without authorize signature is unacceptable 

6. Medical certificate showing no prohibitive diseases as indicated in the Ministerial Regulation No.14 (B.E. 2535)
    certificate shall be valid for not more than three months (Leprosy, Tuberculosis, drug addiction, Elephantiasis,
    third phase of Syphilis)  (Medical Form — Click here –) 

7. Applicant must have a bank deposit of
    7.1 no less than 1,200,000 Baht or
    7.2 an income certificate (an original copy) with a monthly income (pension) of not less than 100,000 Baht, or
    7.3 a deposit account plus a monthly income (pension) totaling not less than 1,200,000 Baht.

     In the case of submitting a bank statement, a letter of guarantee from the bank (an original copy) is required

8. Additional Application Form for Non-Immigrant “O-A” (Long Stay)    
    A completed application form for long stay visa  — Click here —

 

[ubonjoe]

30 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

Maybe not.  From the LA Consulate:

Look at this page on the same website. https://thaiconsulatela.org/en/visa/visa-type/non-immigration-category-o-a/

Or here on the embassy website. https://thaiembdc.org/2020/11/17/oalongstay/

[sqwakvfr]

37 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Look at this page on the same website. https://thaiconsulatela.org/en/visa/visa-type/non-immigration-category-o-a/

Or here on the embassy website. https://thaiembdc.org/2020/11/17/oalongstay/

Joe, here is the problem:  When one applies on the E-Visa link the increased financial limits are present.  Therefore, it appears the approval of new OA Visa will be based upon the increased financial standards?  I might apply for a new OA in 2022 because I have to leave Thailand next month and go back to Los Angeles.  I will be able to confirm whether or not the LA Thai Consulate is actually going to apply the new standards on al new OA Visa applications.  

Edited December 20, 2021 by sqwakvfr

[ubonjoe]

15 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

When one applies on the E-Visa link the increased financial limits are present.  Therefore, it appears the approval of new OA Visa will be based upon the increased financial standards? 

There has been no increase in the financial requirements. You will not find it in any official order or notice about since is just an error.

I am sure the e visa site will not require it.

Edit: The from the e visa site.

"3. Financial evidence : a guarantee letter from the bank and a copy of bank statement showing a deposit of the amount equal to and not less than 800,000 THB or an income certificate with a monthly income of not less than 65,000 THB or a deposit account plus a monthly income in total not less than 80,000 THB."

Source: https://thaievisa.go.th/long-stay-visa

Edited December 20, 2021 by ubonjoe

[wwest5829]

My O-A application was through the Royal Thai Chicago Consulate in 2011. I submitted a letter from the local city police department and another from the county Sheriff. That said, I would encourage looking at entering Thailand Visa Exempt, then changing to an O Visa. When I can, I will exit Thailand to void my O-A and apply for the O in Thailand. In my case avoiding the need for medical insurance for every year.