Honda Vario 125 Takeoff shudder

[Agusts]

On 12/30/2021 at 5:15 AM, VocalNeal said:

Actually no. 

 

In practise, if used correctly lighter weights do not lower top speed. If the weights are too light they may allow the engine to reach the rev limiter. If matched correctly to the peak HP then the scooter will reach its maximum potential.

 

Doesn't Forza come stock with a tachometer? Is nobody using it? BTW aftermarket exhaust seems to make more difference on a Forza but only about 3kph top speed. Seems Honda may have matched HP , gearing and aerodynamics to achieve maximum in stock form.

 

Take my Honda Zoomer. The rpm at steady speeds has not altered much even though I am using lighter weights. At 70 kph for instance they are almost identical. Hill climbing however is vastly improved. At maximum HP before it was doing 92kph. It still does 90 kph easily. I have not been bothered to hold it wide open on the highway to see what maximum actually is. I am not using the stock variator.

 

 

 

 According to my theory I should be using about 12g but I could only find an 11g and 14g versions of my chosen weights. I haven't yet created the 12g as 11 seems to more or less OK.

 

There is however value in understanding the theory before putting it into practise. 

 

 

As I said your theory is good, and I fully agree, but you need to do more practical tests, and you find practice doesn't follow theory...., many reasons, mainly old bikes are not perfect and don't follow HP vs Rpm diagram on the paper, my Forza should get up on rpm on lighter rollers and give same top speed, but it can't... ! too many reasons...

 

As for your Zoomer, why didn't you test maximum speed after lighter rollers, you need to do that, then you find differences in practice and theory...

 

[VocalNeal]

9 hours ago, Agusts said:

As I said your theory is good, and I fully agree, but you need to do more practical tests, and you find practice doesn't follow theory...., many reasons, mainly old bikes are not perfect and don't follow HP vs Rpm diagram on the paper, my Forza should get up on rpm on lighter rollers and give same top speed, but it can't... ! too many reasons...

 

As for your Zoomer, why didn't you test maximum speed after lighter rollers, you need to do that, then you find differences in practice and theory...

 

Roughly the same but at lower rpm. originally I got 92 km at 8500 (max hp) but now I get 90 at about 7650.

 

Then aerodynamics comes into play. I can get more "downhill with the wind behind me". But top speed is useless for everyday use. Even if I could get 100 I don't have anywhere in my regular travels to do that. Uphill is much better and as I have hills around me...  It is also better for occasional two-up. 

.

Acceleration from say 65 to 80 is much better. But I do have a flat spot at a steady 4500 and about 45 kph. Engine won't develop enough torque to get the torque tube to move and shift down. I just have to avoid that steady speed which I normally do, so I have no plan to change anything to fix that. Except maybe a bore-up to 120cc, just because I can. 

 

Is your Forza 280 or 330cc? I have a mate with the 280 version who is using lighter weights.  I could ask him. he hasn't complained so far.

[Agusts]

On 1/24/2022 at 5:23 AM, VocalNeal said:

Roughly the same but at lower rpm. originally I got 92 km at 8500 (max hp) but now I get 90 at about 7650.

 

Then aerodynamics comes into play. I can get more "downhill with the wind behind me". But top speed is useless for everyday use. Even if I could get 100 I don't have anywhere in my regular travels to do that. Uphill is much better and as I have hills around me...  It is also better for occasional two-up. 

.

Acceleration from say 65 to 80 is much better. But I do have a flat spot at a steady 4500 and about 45 kph. Engine won't develop enough torque to get the torque tube to move and shift down. I just have to avoid that steady speed which I normally do, so I have no plan to change anything to fix that. Except maybe a bore-up to 120cc, just because I can. 

 

Is your Forza 280 or 330cc? I have a mate with the 280 version who is using lighter weights.  I could ask him. he hasn't complained so far.

Mine is a 280cc, old 2016 model...

 

Yes, ask him what lighter roller weight he's using on his Forza, could be useful info...

 

I heard about exhaust too, they say it makes a difference, but I was thinking after exhaust change they need to remap the ECU to take advantage of that, otherwise how can it make much difference, that's where I didn't get a proper answer, most guys not sure about it.... ! 

 

[VocalNeal]

^ He said he currently has 15g but he says when buying new he will go to 16g, as he thinks 15g is too light for him. He doesn't ride at 140 as he has a Versys for that. He is using TechPulley but they no longer sell in Thailand.

[VocalNeal]

One can buy TechPulley from Malaysia. Dr. Pulley direct from Taiwan.