Pattaya driver flees after crashing his pickup truck into a motorbike sidecar, one person dead, one young girl seriously injured

[richard_smith237]

Just now, IvorBiggun2 said:

9 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

IvorBiggun2’s harsh comments

"Harsh comments'? They weren't harsh. I should have been more harsher.

Flippin ek.... you just want to argue with everyone !!!! (even when you are supported !).

 

 

Just now, IvorBiggun2 said:

Been here 16 years and Thais don't learn even when it costs someone their life.

Neither would we in our home nations if it were not for serious legal consequences and penalties. 

 

Just look at the amount of idiot foreigners here riding around without helmets, driving under the influence etc to recognise how quickly the moral and safety compass deteriorates without fear of consequence.

 

Just now, IvorBiggun2 said:

How would some posters feel at running into the rear of a homemade vehicle that should have been there? 

Only laws and consequences of breaking those laws prevent the same from happening in our home nations. Just think of how many kids (late teens) driving around with modded cars which would be modified far more if the Police were not as effective. 

 

 

The reason I haven’t run in to the rear of a poorly lit farm vehicle or unlit Samlor - its because I wasn’t speeding and drunk.....   

 

 

 

We do not know if the Samlor was not lit (had no lights) we are only assuming that and you are arguing from that perspective as if its fact (although its a probability as is the probability that the pickup driver was drunk).

 

 

[IvorBiggun2]

10 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Not necessarily homemade, there are plenty of workshops churning them out.

They are not production line manufactured so they are basically, and I mean "basically', obstructions upon the highway. This is because they are not insurable or roadworthy. Insurers wouldn't touch them with a barge pole. Tells you something that does.

Edited January 4, 2022 by IvorBiggun2

[richard_smith237]

3 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

Giving her, the woman, credit and she had lights, those homemade buggies should not be out on the road. 

This statement fails to recognise that we are in a developing nation.

 

In a perfect world these types of homemade buggies (samlors) should not be out on the roads. 

In a perfect world there would be viable alternatives. 

 

Thailand is not a perfect world and occupies its place somewhere towards the ‘wrong end’ of the road safety spectrum, accordingly we have to recognise that and adopt our driving.

 

Unfortunately, some do not and there are those who unwittingly place themselves in danger because they are uneducated of the risk they are placing themselves in. 

 

Then there are those who knowingly present danger to others because they are selfish and the consequences of their illegal actions (drinking and/or *speeding) are insignificant. 

 

 

[*looking at the pickup there is little doubt they were speeding - whether the driver was drinking is debatable, however, fleeing the scene certainly points suspicion towards the driver being drunk as does the time (3am) ].

 

[transam]

5 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Not necessarily homemade, there are plenty of workshops churning them out. A pity they mostly don't fit them with rear lights and reflectors etc. Driving in Thailand you have to be ready for these types of vehicles, along with 4 or 5 family members on a motorcycle. 

3am is a bit of a frightener, especially if no lights for any driver. 

[billd766]

31 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

Who the heck takes a small child out at 3am on a badly lit vehicle with no insurance? And you expect sympathy from me?

 

If you can't afford a 'proper vehicle' then you shouldn't be on the 'proper' road. Simple innit?

 

Speculation.

Correct it is speculation, especially on your part, as all of your posts on this topic are. Unless you were there you have no idea what happened.

 

22 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

"Harsh comments'? They weren't harsh. I should have been more harsher. Been here 16 years and Thais don't learn even when it costs someone their life. How would some posters feel at running into the rear of a homemade vehicle that should never have been there? 

Some of us on this forum drive at night but DON'T drink. I drive within what I can see within my headlights, and if I am not sure, I put my headlights on main beam to check.

 

The only information I have on the accident is what I have read on AseanNow and that would be a translation from Thai and may not be correct.

 

What I try not to do, is speculate what actually happened without any facts other than was written for the paper in Thai.

[itsari]

28 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

Giving her, the woman, credit and she had lights, those homemade buggies should not be out on the road. 

Buggies welded to the motorcycles does say much about you . In reality these buggies as you call them will be around long after you have lost the use of your fingers for posting .

[rudi49jr]

16 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Unfortunately, some do not and there are those who unwittingly place themselves in danger because they are uneducated of the risk they are placing themselves in.

Life is very hard for a lot of people in Thailand. If you don’t work, or have a family to rely on, you have no income and you go hungry, it’s as simple as that. My girlfriend was a single mom with young twins before I met her, and she had it tough like you wouldn’t believe.
So they don’t always place themselves in danger unwittingly because they are uneducated, but because they have no other options, they simply don’t have a choice. Desperate people will do anything to make some money so they and their child(ren) can eat. 

[Boomer6969]

5 hours ago, BestB said:

Most likely a drunk, will surrender today evening or tomorrow claiming he panicked.

Exactly, as far as I am concerned the law should assume that any driver, fleeing the scene of an accident he caused, was driving under the influence. 

[IvorBiggun2]

12 minutes ago, itsari said:

Buggies welded to the motorcycles does say much about you . In reality these buggies as you call them will be around long after you have lost the use of your fingers for posting .

And your brains for thinking illogically.

[IvorBiggun2]

4 minutes ago, Boomer6969 said:

fleeing the scene of an accident he caused, was driving under the influence. 

Speculation that he caused the accident and was under the influence.

Edited January 4, 2022 by IvorBiggun2

[rudi49jr]

57 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

Speculation that he caused the accident and was under the influence.

Whereas there was no speculation at all on your part when you implied that the woman may have been drunk, or her motorbike had no tail lights?

[fulhamster]

3 hours ago, BestB said:

as bad as it sounds, but if he was drunk it is actually a good thing he did the runner because now insurance will pay. If he was caught and was drunk, all insurance is void. At least family will get some payout from insurance as highly unlikely driver has any to pay. this is of course under the assumption he has insurance 

The final sentence is the key to all this.

How many drivers have insurance at all (apart from the mandatory govt 100 bt one)

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, rudi49jr said:

2 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Unfortunately, some do not and there are those who unwittingly place themselves in danger because they are uneducated of the risk they are placing themselves in.

Life is very hard for a lot of people in Thailand. If you don’t work, or have a family to rely on, you have no income and you go hungry, it’s as simple as that. My girlfriend was a single mom with young twins before I met her, and she had it tough like you wouldn’t believe.
So they don’t always place themselves in danger unwittingly because they are uneducated, but because they have no other options, they simply don’t have a choice. Desperate people will do anything to make some money so they and their child(ren) can eat. 

Wrong....  very very wrong. 

 

In Thailand I see people place themselves in danger all the time because they are uneducated or simply have not thought of the consequences. 

 

If you believe that someone goes out on a motorcycle / farm vehicle / samlor at in the pitch dark and they never had any option to place lighting on their vehicles you are utterly gullible and there are plenty of sick buffaloes for you to support.... 

 

While I am understanding of the family who ride four up (2 adults & 2 kids) on a motorcycle, I consider it unacceptable to do so at night without lights. 

The same can be said for Samlors or any other vehicle. 

 

Desperation is not an excuse to take no precautions whatsoever. 

Edited January 4, 2022 by richard_smith237

[transam]

31 minutes ago, rudi49jr said:

Whereas there was no speculation at all on your part when you implied that the woman may have been drunk, or her motorbike had no tail lights?

From my experience with those modes of transport, I have never seen one with proper rear lights showing anyone behind the width of the bike and carriage, the other type that drag a trailer should be outlawed.  

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, rudi49jr said:

So they don’t always place themselves in danger unwittingly because they are uneducated,

Placing their family in danger knowingly is even worse - Obviously not in all, but in many cases precautions can be taken. 

 

In this case - ensuring lights on the Samlor. In other cases ensuring the rear lights on the motorcycle are working. In other cases not riding at 30kmh down the centre of the road while the rest of the traffic is flowing at 60kmh. In other cases stopping at a junction rather than looking when its too late etc etc.... 

 

In my case it's ensuring the car is road worthy whenever going on a long trip... i.e. checking the tyre pressures regularly and before every long journey. It's ensuring my son is in his car seat, belted up properly each and every journey. 

 

There are always ‘some’ precautions we can take to reduce our risk no matter what socio-economic demographic we originate. 

 

 

 

 

[actonion]

4 hours ago, BestB said:

as bad as it sounds, but if he was drunk it is actually a good thing he did the runner because now insurance will pay. If he was caught and was drunk, all insurance is void. At least family will get some payout from insurance as highly unlikely driver has any to pay. this is of course under the assumption he has insurance 

What insurance ...... Thais i know dont have insurance,  or money to fix  any damage they may do

[Aussieroaming]

The driver can go to the catch and release program. Firstly catch him and then release him into the care of the dead persons relatives. They can choose whether to forgive him or not. RIP to the victim.

 

He may or may not have been at fault for the accident but as soon as he runs he becomes as guilty as ..........

[rudi49jr]

24 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Placing their family in danger knowingly is even worse - Obviously not in all, but in many cases precautions can be taken. 

 

In this case - ensuring lights on the Samlor. In other cases ensuring the rear lights on the motorcycle are working. In other cases not riding at 30kmh down the centre of the road while the rest of the traffic is flowing at 60kmh. In other cases stopping at a junction rather than looking when its too late etc etc.... 

 

In my case it's ensuring the car is road worthy whenever going on a long trip... i.e. checking the tyre pressures regularly and before every long journey. It's ensuring my son is in his car seat, belted up properly each and every journey. 

 

There are always ‘some’ precautions we can take to reduce our risk no matter what socio-economic demographic we originate. 

 

 

 

 

Obviously you have never been in a situation where you didn’t have two baht to rub together and had some hard choices to make.

[Jimbo53]

3 hours ago, rudi49jr said:

Jeez dude, show a little empathy. That woman is dead now, the little girl seriously injured, and you sit there on your high horse passing judgement? Has it ever occurred to you that many people in Thailand are poor and can not afford to buy ‘proper’ vehicles, so they are forced to fabricate things themselves in order to make living? Has it ever occurred to you that, instead of being drunk, like you implied, she was maybe on the way to the market or something at 3 AM? 

Correct,my immediate thoughts! If anyone knows the area,the Railway road at certain times is like a speedway,with quite a few Railway junction crossings that are not controlled by traffic lights,i think the guy has been speeding along the side of the Railway road,the lady has been coming out of the side road on the junction on the way to market with her child/grandchild,end of story!! RIP.

[TropicalGuy]

5 hours ago, brianthainess said:

This guy running off, without checking on the victims, and no doubt pished up, was awful, BUT there were no lights front or rear on the sidecar as is pretty normal here. Condolences to the victims family.

 

No legal issue. Sidecar contraptions completely illegal. See how it splits apart on collision. So victims utterly undocumented for road use. So legally no crime committed. Drunk driver free after 2000 baht tea money.

[IvorBiggun2]

24 minutes ago, rudi49jr said:

Obviously you have never been in a situation where you didn’t have two baht to rub together and had some hard choices to make.

There is no indication in the story that the woman was poor. You assume she 'had some hard choices to make'. The choice she made to ride her motorcycle sidecar with a young child at 3am was the wrong call. Will it be repeated by others in the future? Of course it will, because of lack of Thai highway discipline. They're their own worst enemies.

Edited January 4, 2022 by IvorBiggun2

[Nojohndoe]

3 hours ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

Why? She was in/on a homemade vehicle that wasn't fit for its roll. She shouldn't have been out on it.

Plus if the car driver was drunk then he too shouldn't have been driving.

In terms of legality the sidecar attachments are not legal but "tolerated" for carrying goods , not people. Back in the days of the Thai manufactured Tiger Motorcycles they actually marketed a model with factory made sidecar specifically for people that confused the whole issue and in a way legitimized the very common tack on units.

I certainly agree they are not safe and I cringe at the sight of them at times with up to 5 or 6 people in traveling at speed enough to be lethal if the "engineering" fails. (Which I have seen with welding failures!)

[TropicalGuy]

2 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

There is no indication in the story that the woman was poor. You assume she 'had some hard choices to make'. The choice she made to ride her motorcycle sidecar with a young child at 3am was the wrong call. Will it be repeated by others in the future? Of course it will, because of lack of Thai highway discipline. 

Her ……illegal unlicensed untaxed uninsured contraption …..sidecar.

Her….. untrained unlicensed uninsured lunatic driving ..self.

Verdict: posthumous manslaughter of her child.

Family Damages Paid to Traumatized Driver with Drunk Fine Deduction.

[rudi49jr]

23 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

There is no indication in the story that the woman was poor. You assume she 'had some hard choices to make'. The choice she made to ride her motorcycle sidecar with a young child at 3am was the wrong call. Will it be repeated by others in the future? Of course it will, because of lack of Thai highway discipline. They're their own worst enemies.

So you’re accusing me and others on this forum of assuming things, while you’re doing exactly the same thing. Do you have any knowledge about why the woman chose to ride that vehicle at 3 am? I’m just saying there may have been circumstances that she had no choice, while you boldly claim that it’s always the wrong thing to do, no matter what. Life is not all black and white, you know. 

[IvorBiggun2]

40 minutes ago, rudi49jr said:

Do you have any knowledge about why the woman chose to ride that vehicle at 3 am?

I can only guess 'sheer stupidity'? 

 

40 minutes ago, rudi49jr said:

I’m just saying there may have been circumstances that she had no choice,

There's always a choice. She made a wrong one. I'm not going to say I have no feelings regarding her death but in doing what she did she put innocent peoples lives in jeopardy with her actions. My feelings in this matter rest with hoping the young innocent girl in this story isn't mentally and physically scarred.

Edited January 4, 2022 by IvorBiggun2

[roo860]

3 hours ago, transam said:

From my experience with those modes of transport, I have never seen one with proper rear lights showing anyone behind the width of the bike and carriage, the other type that drag a trailer should be outlawed.  

My brother in law has two, unbolts the sidecars when goes for mandatory MOT, insurance, local bike shop fitted them with side lights, I'd pestered him for 12 months to do it. He rarely uses them at night, thankfully. 

[mikebell]

23 hours ago, Bangkok Barry said:

In around 26 years living here I've only once seen a Thai take responsibility, when his dog ran out and bit me and he took me to a clinic and paid the bill.

I've been here 17 years and I'm still waiting for my first.

[clivebaxter]

20 hours ago, rudi49jr said:

Jeez dude, show a little empathy. That woman is dead now, the little girl seriously injured, and you sit there on your high horse passing judgement? Has it ever occurred to you that many people in Thailand are poor and can not afford to buy ‘proper’ vehicles, so they are forced to fabricate things themselves in order to make living? Has it ever occurred to you that, instead of being drunk, like you implied, she was maybe on the way to the market or something at 3 AM? 

Stupidity, recklessness and deserting the scene deserve no empathy or compassion. Relative of ours 22 a newly married father was killed last year in Surin by a lorry driver in the early hours on his bike. No license, no helmet and as the bike had no lights he was using the light on his phone so riding one handed! Probably drunk as well and speeding judging by the distance the body was thrown. The innocent party deserve empathy, not the clowns riding about on unsafe contraptions in the dark.

[Rimmer]

Some baiting bickering posts have been removed.

[BestB]

20 hours ago, actonion said:

What insurance ...... Thais i know dont have insurance,  or money to fix  any damage they may do

good to know you know ALL Thai and they like to share with you what they have or do not have