SSD Versus HDD

[Bruno123]

*

[HappyGoLuckyLife]

On 1/4/2022 at 12:40 PM, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

SSD is better in the long

run but when new there is no difference.

Let's see a new HDD read at 7GB and write at 5GB like my Samsung 980 pro.

[Peterw42]

Any of these SSD v HDD discussions its worth noting.

YES, an SSD is orders of magnitude faster than a HDD,

"BUT" RAM is also orders of magnitude faster than a SSD.

RAM is where stuff gets done, SSD is where stuff is stored.

 

In the first instance, nothing beats lots of RAM for the actual fast operation of programs/apps. The initial loading of an app/data into ram takes time and the SSD speed comes into play, After that, with plenty of RAM onboard, theoretically the SSD isnt being used, everything is running in RAM at RAM speed.

 

I'm typing this on a laptop with 16GB of RAM, laptop is always on, basically does internet stuff. The laptop booted from the SSD a couple of months ago. A browser and 10 tabs are open in RAM.

The last time the laptop accessed the SSD was probably 3 weeks ago. (joke, but you get the idea)

 

If you run out of space on a SSD, and start storing apps/data on an HDD, you are negating a lot of the speed benefits from the SSD.

 

Yes, SSDs are great, but depending on setup and usage, the benefits may be minimal

[robblok]

14 hours ago, KannikaP said:

Or with Windows 10 when 11 is the latest flavour.

Not sure, my computer is win11 ready I9 K12900K and i still dont switch even though i can do so for free. There are still some bugs and stuff not worked out. I would hate it some of my more important programs stopped working. What I hear is that there are still bugs in windows 10. (windows 10 will still be improved). I might switch at some point after having checked with my software supplier (the important programs) if they will do win 11. But so far I would not want to be the first with win 11

 

But that is a personal opinion based on the fact that there are some programs i absolutely need and can't change. Once I confirmed these will work and win 11 is more stable i gladly switch.

[robblok]

8 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Any of these SSD v HDD discussions its worth noting.

YES, an SSD is orders of magnitude faster than a HDD,

"BUT" RAM is also orders of magnitude faster than a SSD.

RAM is where stuff gets done, SSD is where stuff is stored.

 

In the first instance, nothing beats lots of RAM for the actual fast operation of programs/apps. The initial loading of an app/data into ram takes time and the SSD speed comes into play, After that, with plenty of RAM onboard, theoretically the SSD isnt being used, everything is running in RAM at RAM speed.

 

I'm typing this on a laptop with 16GB of RAM, laptop is always on, basically does internet stuff. The laptop booted from the SSD a couple of months ago. A browser and 10 tabs are open in RAM.

The last time the laptop accessed the SSD was probably 3 weeks ago. (joke, but you get the idea)

 

If you run out of space on a SSD, and start storing apps/data on an HDD, you are negating a lot of the speed benefits from the SSD.

 

Yes, SSDs are great, but depending on setup and usage, the benefits may be minimal

Sure if you don't boot up or start new aps it wont be faster. I got 32GB in my computer was considering 62 (might do it when DDR5 becomes more available)

[KannikaP]

2 minutes ago, robblok said:

Not sure, my computer is win11 ready I9 K12900K and i still dont switch even though i can do so for free. There are still some bugs and stuff not worked out. I would hate it some of my more important programs stopped working. What I hear is that there are still bugs in windows 10. (windows 10 will still be improved). I might switch at some point after having checked with my software supplier (the important programs) if they will do win 11. But so far I would not want to be the first with win 11

 

But that is a personal opinion based on the fact that there are some programs i absolutely need and can't change. Once I confirmed these will work and win 11 is more stable i gladly switch.

ANY W10 PC can be upgraded to W11, see M'soft's own instructions to bypass the requirements.

I have done my two PCs, one an Intel NUC & one is home-made i5 jobbie both run perfectly, upgrade when told to do so. All programs & apps run as before. I know others who have had the same successful experience.

 

[sirineou]

I recently replaced my old laptop which has an HDD , with a new one that has an SSD, The difference is incredible. With the old one I would hesitate to turn it off , and simply let it go to sleep , because it would take for ever to restart. The new SSD laptops starts in seconds. 

[KannikaP]

6 minutes ago, robblok said:

Sure if you don't boot up or start new aps it wont be faster. I got 32GB in my computer was considering 62 (might do it when DDR5 becomes more available)

Would you not have to change your motherboard to accomodate DDR5 RAM?

[robblok]

9 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

ANY W10 PC can be upgraded to W11, see M'soft's own instructions to bypass the requirements.

I have done my two PCs, one an Intel NUC & one is home-made i5 jobbie both run perfectly, upgrade when told to do so. All programs & apps run as before. I know others who have had the same successful experience.

 

I need to confirm first, before doing that. Sorry im of the better safe then sorry group as its really important. I don't need to bypass anything the update itself says my computer is compatible. 

 

It really is just one program that i need to check with the maker of the program. Does the snipping tool work good now as i use it a lot. ?

[robblok]

7 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

Would you not have to change your motherboard to accomodate DDR5 RAM?

My motherboard already only takes DDR5.

 

https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/Z690-AORUS-MASTER-rev-1x/sp#sp

 

it also has the new socket for the I9 (hence there is a I9 in that motherboard)

[HappyGoLuckyLife]

1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

RAM is where stuff gets done, SSD is where stuff is stored.

 

If we're breaking if down like this (because the discussion is SSD vs HDD) then you look at it this way:

 

The processor is where stuff gets done

RAM allows you to do more stuff simultaneously.

SSD (or in my case NVMe) is how fast stuff can be accessed by the RAM and processor.

Now, if you used your excess RAM to create a RAM Disk (where you can actually store data) then it would be faster than SSD or NVMe. Just don't turn off the power while using it or your data is toast.

[azt219]

I recently got a computer with HDD delivered, and I swear it's already faulty, incredibly slow boot up speeds.

Loading certain applications take forever.  The computer is brand new!

 

Can't ever go back to HDD in my opinion.  

[transam]

My 10+ year old desktop now boots in 16 seconds with a cheap Lexar SSD, ancient 'customised' 3.0Ghz CPU and W10 quick start enabled....????

Before with HDD, 2.6Ghz CPU it took near a minute...????

[fdsa]

1 hour ago, azt219 said:

Loading certain applications take forever.  The computer is brand new!

enjoy your Windows 10

 

*looks down on Windows fanboys who already promote Windows 11 just because it's new and not because it's in any way better than Windows 7 or 8*

[vinci]

its blown my mind people still thinking of using HHD in 2022, must be old people still stuck in the past, the only thing you should be using HHD for is storage, bang for one's buck, even that is out of date to be honest.

[thecyclist]

15 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

Any of these SSD v HDD discussions its worth noting.

YES, an SSD is orders of magnitude faster than a HDD,

"BUT" RAM is also orders of magnitude faster than a SSD.

RAM is where stuff gets done, SSD is where stuff is stored.

 

In the first instance, nothing beats lots of RAM for the actual fast operation of programs/apps. The initial loading of an app/data into ram takes time and the SSD speed comes into play, After that, with plenty of RAM onboard, theoretically the SSD isnt being used, everything is running in RAM at RAM speed.

 

I'm typing this on a laptop with 16GB of RAM, laptop is always on, basically does internet stuff. The laptop booted from the SSD a couple of months ago. A browser and 10 tabs are open in RAM.

The last time the laptop accessed the SSD was probably 3 weeks ago. (joke, but you get the idea)

 

If you run out of space on a SSD, and start storing apps/data on an HDD, you are negating a lot of the speed benefits from the SSD.

 

Yes, SSDs are great, but depending on setup and usage, the benefits may be minimal

So what is more important :plenty of RAM or a good CPU? I hope this question makes sense. Never been interested in the technical aspects of my devices, as long as they do their job. 

[ozimoron]

8 minutes ago, thecyclist said:

So what is more important :plenty of RAM or a good CPU? I hope this question makes sense. Never been interested in the technical aspects of my devices, as long as they do their job. 

In terms of noticeable speed improvement s for day to day use.

 

1. Disk drive. nvme is faster than ssd and both are faster than hdd.

 

2. RAM

 

3. CPU. The cpu really only matters in very highly intensive cpu operations like rendering and gaming. In the case of gaming, much of the load is offloaded to a separate GPU such as nvidea produce. If you are regularly gaming without one then it may make a difference.

[thecyclist]

8 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

In terms of noticeable speed improvement s for day to day use.

 

1. Disk drive. nvme is faster than ssd and both are faster than hdd.

 

2. RAM

 

3. CPU. The cpu really only matters in very highly intensive cpu operations like rendering and gaming. In the case of gaming, much of the load is offloaded to a separate GPU such as nvidea produce. If you are regularly gaming without one then it may make a difference.

Zero interested in games. Just do the regular stuff : surfing the net,FB, YouTube, Netflix etc 

[ozimoron]

Just now, thecyclist said:

Zero interested in games. Just do the regular stuff : surfing the net,FB, YouTube, Netflix etc 

Then CPU is a distant last in the equation.

[thecyclist]

14 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Then CPU is a distant last in the equation.

Oh,forget to mention, since I am teaching online, Zoom, Skype, Google meet etc are very important as well 

[ozimoron]

7 minutes ago, thecyclist said:

Oh,forget to mention, since I am teaching online, Zoom, Skype, Google meet etc are very important as well 

None of which are heavy on CPU. You likely should have a decent drive, at least SSD but preferably nVME if the motherboard will take one. And 8 Gb RAM minimum. The older laptops with 4Gb RAM struggle with newer operating systems these days. The CPU doesn't really matter for your usage.

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

On 1/4/2022 at 5:40 PM, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

you can buy the HDD , use it for 2 years, will work great because it is new.

than you can change to SSD, will cost you (in thai repair shop) around 3000 - 4000 baht. SSD is better in the long

run but when new there is no difference.

i guess my advice here left many people pazzled, so i will try to explain.

this advice is good only in thailand, and only in that particular repair shop i've found.

when changing HDD / SDD all programs / content installed on the computer are lost, incl.

the operating system.

that shop offered to me the replacement for 500 baht, incl. NEW WINDOWS 10  and any other program that i will choose (office, photoshop, ext.). all included in the 500 baht.

i did not had time to ask if those programs are properly licensed because i was too busy and had to run to swensens to drink macademia shake with cream on top, but i trust the technician to take care for all neccasry beurocratic requirements.

[gargamon]

Wow. I can't believe how much incorrect information there is in this thread. I was going to quote a few of the worst examples but there are way too many.

 

So the best advice I can give is to‘ "Move Along. Nothing to see here."

[Bruno123]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

In terms of noticeable speed improvement s for day to day use.

 

1. Disk drive. nvme is faster than ssd and both are faster than hdd.

 

2. RAM

 

3. CPU. The cpu really only matters in very highly intensive cpu operations like rendering and gaming. In the case of gaming, much of the load is offloaded to a separate GPU such as nvidea produce. If you are regularly gaming without one then it may make a difference.

I disagree, slightly. What you meant is NVMe(PCIe) SSD is faster than SATA SSD. Though in day to day usage the OP would not notice a difference.

 

I would put CPU in second place and RAM last. Reason being that 4GB of RAM is still adequate. Having 8GB will only bring a small increase in performance. Be more importantly, the RAM can easily be upgraded. Chances are the CPU cannot. So don't skimp there.

 

I look at CPU first and then things such as screen quality. I can customise Storage and RAM, so that has little or no impact.

[Bruno123]

5 minutes ago, gargamon said:

Wow. I can't believe how much incorrect information there is in this thread. I was going to quote a few of the worst examples but there are way too many.

 

So the best advice I can give is to‘ "Move Along. Nothing to see here."

Hopefully you will heed your own advice and just move along. ????

[Led Lolly Yellow Lolly]

14 hours ago, vinci said:

its blown my mind people still thinking of using HHD in 2022, must be old people still stuck in the past

HDDs are going to be around for a looong time to come. I build and administer security NVRs (Network Video Recorders) in enterprise environments that handle Petabytes of data per year. Try to use an SSD in that environment and it would be chewed up in weeks, they're useless. The solution is multiple HDDs in RAID. It's the only solution actually. The read/erase/write life of rust is effectively infinite. Did I blow your mind?

 

 

[transam]

6 hours ago, Led Lolly Yellow Lolly said:

HDDs are going to be around for a looong time to come. I build and administer security NVRs (Network Video Recorders) in enterprise environments that handle Petabytes of data per year. Try to use an SSD in that environment and it would be chewed up in weeks, they're useless. The solution is multiple HDDs in RAID. It's the only solution actually. The read/erase/write life of rust is effectively infinite. Did I blow your mind?

 

 

 

 

My very old Intel PC has had a few things done to it, as I don't fool around with cars any more I like fooling around with it to go 'faster', perform better as cheaply as possible. ????

 

First was to find a better CPU, I did, a Q9400, it improved stuff, then bought a 250GB SSD, installed my W10 on it and used the 500BG HDD as storage. What a difference that made to start up and shutdown times, increased the RAM from 4 to 8GB, max for the board, no real noticeable difference but am sure it has. The biggest difference in actual use was upgrading the CPU again, I found a 10+ year old 3.0 Ghz Xeon E5450, that made it whizz.

 

So, for sure, I would never have an HDD running things, my experiments have shown me first hand differences.

PS. Don't forget to check on LAN, I installed a 1GB expansion card in the PC, gone from 65Mbps to around 560Mbps, though I have just changed the motherboard which has a 1GB as standard, same result.. ????

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[vinci]

Quote

HDDs are going to be around for a looong time to come. I build and administer security NVRs (Network Video Recorders) in enterprise environments that handle Petabytes of data per year. Try to use an SSD in that environment and it would be chewed up in weeks, they're useless. The solution is multiple HDDs in RAID. It's the only solution actually. The read/erase/write life of rust is effectively infinite. Did I blow your mind?

wouldn't that be a cost issue and not the tech itself, in your line of work using HHD make sense but if you compare apple to apple so what's the different

[fdsa]

10 hours ago, Led Lolly Yellow Lolly said:

HDDs are going to be around for a looong time to come. I build and administer security NVRs (Network Video Recorders) in enterprise environments that handle Petabytes of data per year. Try to use an SSD in that environment and it would be chewed up in weeks, they're useless. The solution is multiple HDDs in RAID. It's the only solution actually. The read/erase/write life of rust is effectively infinite. Did I blow your mind?

this is correct - HDDs are still (and will be) widely used for heavy write workloads, e.g. most even cheap HDDs are capable of continuous 100+ MB/s write speed while modern shítty QLC SSDs could write fast (their advertised 500 MB/s) for mere 1-2 minutes and then their write speed drops below 80 MB/s. Also despite write capacity of HDD is not really "effectively infinite", it's still tens of thousands of terabytes, while even the best "Pro" SSDs are capable only of 2-3 thousands of terabytes.

[Led Lolly Yellow Lolly]

4 hours ago, vinci said:

wouldn't that be a cost issue and not the tech itself, in your line of work using HHD make sense but if you compare apple to apple so what's the different

It's not about cost. The HDDs I use are extremely expensive and designed for the use case I describe. SSDs simply don't work, they have a finite write capacity that's used up in just weeks, maybe months and they fail. Site visits to replace are costly and time consuming. It also makes my company look bad if equipment keeps failing. Spinning rust has infinite write capacity (yes, it really is infinite, the mechanics of the drive fall apart first, we replace on a five year schedule).

 

In our NVRs, I put database operations and OS on SSDs in RAID 10. Video storage is on HDDs in RAID 0. There will probably never be any replacement for HDDs in such an environment unless some magical new technology is created.