ICE vs EV, the debate thread

[KhunLA]

ICE  ... like their tech & fuel will go the way of the Dinosaur ... ????

 

currently 59 makes, 144 models, 320 model variants

(list not even up to date)

https://www.myevreview.com/tech-specs/

 

Edited March 12, 2023 by KhunLA

[KhunLA]

????

Edited March 12, 2023 by KhunLA

[KhunLA]

Our MG ZS ICE got a thirsty 10 kms per liter of petrol.

Our MG ZS EV consistently get 360+ per charge (cycle)

 

Cost per 360 kms comparison between ICE vs EV:

EV (MG ZS)

... 360 kms @ home w/solar -0-

... 360 kms @ home w/grid @ ฿5 kwh = ฿232

... 360 kms @ MG SuperCharger

@ ฿7.5 kWh (฿8 kWh) = ฿371

 

ICE (MG ZS)

... 360 kms @ ฿36 per L = ฿1396 

 

Cost over the life of the MG ZS EV warranty vs ICE (8 yr/180 kms):

EV (MG ZS)

... 180k kms @ home w/solar -0-

... 180k kms @ home w/grid @ ฿5 kwh = ฿116k

... 180k kms @ MG SuperCharger

@ ฿7.5 kWh (฿8 kWh) = ฿185.5k

 

ICE (MG ZS)

... 180k kms @ ฿36 per L = ฿698k

 

Cost over the life of LFP Battery (2500 cycles/900k kms) ????

EV (MG ZS)

... 900k kms @ home w/solar -0-

... 900k kms @ home w/grid @ ฿5 kwh = ฿580k

... 900k kms @ MG SuperCharger

@ ฿7.5 kWh (฿8 kWh) = ฿927.5k

 

ICE (MG ZS)

... 900k kms @ ฿36 per L = ฿3,490,000

If your ICE gets 20 kms per L =฿1,745,000

 

Someone want to tell me again, why owning an EV cost more.

At 2500 cycles, the EV battery may still hold 80% capacity.

 

Spend YOUR  money on YOU, or give it to Big Oil...

... UP2U

 

It's not rocket ... just simple math ????

 

https://zecar.com/resources/how-long-do-electric-car-batteries-last

Edited March 18, 2023 by KhunLA

[Yellowtail]

????

[KhunLA]

Elsewhere (not AN) someone stated "but after 10 years, how much is that hybrid worth" in a discussion.   Let's see ...

 

Not seeing a lot of difference myself ... except, how much did it cost to operate & maintain that Accord ? 2013 Toyota Prius (MSRP) of $24,960 ... Prius Five coming in just under $31,000.

 

 2013 Honda Accord LX (MSRP) starting slightly over $22,000, ... top-level reaches about $34,000.

 

Aside from MSRP /USA, I think, but aren't both imports here, so all things being equal, after 10 yrs, seem they are just about equal.

 

Google for MSRA

This site for 2nd hand:

https://www.taladrod.com/w40/isch/schc.aspx?fno:all+mk:29+md:130+gr:b+y1:2012+gs:n

Edited March 25, 2023 by KhunLA

[KhunLA]

ICE vs EV

In a word or 2, operating cost ... cost ... cost ... cost

 

Popped down to Ban Krut yesterday, for the hell of it, and 136 kms R/T. 

 

Would I do that if using an ICE, probably not, as nothing down there worth the ฿350 worth of petrol it would have used, that we haven't seen already over the years, and would make our mid price munch, a bit expensive.

 

In not caring about contributing to the overall pollution, that 'Save the Planet' ... Man Made Global Warming / Climate Change y'all complain about, then you should have just to put a few extra ฿฿฿ in the ol' pocket.

 

Since we charge with excess solar at home .... FREE transport.

 

Actually the best thing about our EV.  It gets me out of the house, whether down to the bottom of the province, or up to the top of.  Leaves plenty of reserve battery once back home.   It's a long province, though sadly, not very wide.

[KhunLA]

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 12/4/2022 at 12:08 AM, Skallywag said:

The way I see it is 95% of the retired expats in Pattaya who own a scooter or a car, really do not need either.  Only reason would be to take a trip, but this can be done by renting a car for a month or simply hiring a taxi/van service or taking a bus.  Big C or Makro shopping? You can hire a Songthaew to take your food home or have it delivered.  

 

Taking a girl to 3 Mermaids for a nice meal?  Hire a Bolt taxi and sit in back and cuddle with your companion while someone else drives and drops you off - no parking hassles ever!  

I am a retired expat living here for 4 years without any motorized vehicle and have no problems.

 

So for me the real debate is why do you need to "own" any motorized vehicle

I agree. No reason to own a motorised vehicle in LOS UNLESS one lives in Lamphun, where the public transport is almost non existent.

To get to where I could take public transport to Chiang Mai I needed a m'bike.

No taxi service.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 4/9/2023 at 1:52 PM, KhunLA said:

Since we charge with excess solar at home .... FREE transport.

Was the car a gift?

[In the jungle]

On 4/9/2023 at 8:52 AM, KhunLA said:

ICE vs EV

In a word or 2, operating cost ... cost ... cost ... cost

 

Popped down to Ban Krut yesterday, for the hell of it, and 136 kms R/T. 

 

Would I do that if using an ICE, probably not, as nothing down there worth the ฿350 worth of petrol it would have used, that we haven't seen already over the years, and would make our mid price munch, a bit expensive.

 

In not caring about contributing to the overall pollution, that 'Save the Planet' ... Man Made Global Warming / Climate Change y'all complain about, then you should have just to put a few extra ฿฿฿ in the ol' pocket.

 

Since we charge with excess solar at home .... FREE transport.

 

Actually the best thing about our EV.  It gets me out of the house, whether down to the bottom of the province, or up to the top of.  Leaves plenty of reserve battery once back home.   It's a long province, though sadly, not very wide.

I think "FREE transport" is a little too evangelical.

 

Free at the point of use I would say.

[motdaeng]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Was the car a gift?

if you own an apartment you also don't need to pay rent ... isn't it ... 

[KhunLA]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Was the car a gift?

 

2 hours ago, In the jungle said:

I think "FREE transport" is a little too evangelical.

 

Free at the point of use I would say.

Savings from petrol and ICE maintenance, over the life of the car, will pay for itself, and then some.  So in long run ... FREE.

 

Free use anywhere in the province, Pkk since about 225 km long, and can do R/T to far north or south of without the need to stop at CS, with over 100 kms reserve, since living mid province.

 

360,000 km / 14 kpL X ฿37 = ฿951,428 ... 

Cost of MG ZS EV = ฿949K

Yep ... lookin' like FREE to me

 

360 kms per cycle X 2500 cycles

Do the math

 

Edited April 18, 2023 by KhunLA

[EVENKEEL]

I like the roar of a 3.0 diesel in my SUV, 700+ km ride on 3/4 tank. 

[JBChiangRai]

7 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

I like the roar of a 3.0 diesel in my SUV, 700+ km ride on 3/4 tank. 

Funny that, I prefer the instant pickup, cheaper & silent ride in my BEV over a diesel's clatter any day

[EVENKEEL]

11 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Funny that, I prefer the instant pickup, cheaper & silent ride in my BEV over a diesel's clatter any day

Cool, but the instant pick-up doesn't compute.

[KhunLA]

5 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Cool, but the instant pick-up doesn't compute.

Yea it does, the torque and instant use of available HP is damn impressive.   None of that 'xxx@5000rpm' BS.  You punch it, it takes off.   Makes even low spec'd EVs damn sporty.

[EVENKEEL]

3 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Yea it does, the torque and instant use of available HP is damn impressive.   None of that 'xxx@5000rpm' BS.  You punch it, it takes off.   Makes even low spec'd EVs damn sporty.

5000 rpm ?? More like 2500 rpm, if that much. just did a 700 km run. Doubt you could have kept up.

[KhunLA]

14 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

5000 rpm ?? More like 2500 rpm, if that much. just did a 700 km run. Doubt you could have kept up.

Probably not, but my hotel or really nice munch, would have been paid for, with the savings from not buying petrol to get there ????

 

petrol ฿3700 (700/14 kpL X ฿37 X2)

EV CS ฿800 (720kms) 46.3kWh X2 X ฿8)

 

Of course, if that was 700 kms R/T, then only ฿500 for EV.

Edited April 18, 2023 by KhunLA

[EVENKEEL]

2 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Probably not, but my hotel or really nice munch, would have been paid for, with the savings from not buying petrol to get there ????

 

petrol ฿3700 (700/14 kpL X ฿37 X2)

EV CS ฿800 (720kms) 46.3kWh X2 X ฿8)

 

Of course, if that was 700 kms R/T, then only ฿500 for EV.

Not even close on the cost. More like 12 kpl. Maybe 2000 thb for the 700 km run plus I made some smaller trips beforehand. I don't keep tabs, I just buy what I like. So you couldn't make a 700 km run straight through like I did. Enjoy the ride.

[BritManToo]

13 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Probably not, but my hotel or really nice munch, would have been paid for, with the savings from not buying petrol to get there ????

 

petrol ฿3700 (700/14 kpL X ฿37 X2)

EV CS ฿800 (720kms) 46.3kWh X2 X ฿8)

 

Of course, if that was 700 kms R/T, then only ฿500 for EV.

How much petrol could you have purchased by getting a Suzuki ICE car for 318000bht, instead of your EV costing 900,000bht.

I'm thinking that 500,000bht difference would have paid for a lifetimes worth of petrol.

How much do you spend on coffee and snacks while waiting for your EV to charge?

Edited April 18, 2023 by BritManToo

[KhunLA]

5 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Not even close on the cost. More like 12 kpl. Maybe 2000 thb for the 700 km run plus I made some smaller trips beforehand. I don't keep tabs, I just buy what I like. So you couldn't make a 700 km run straight through like I did. Enjoy the ride.

I was close, if not R/T, then I thought 1850.

[KhunLA]

7 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

How much petrol could you have purchased by getting a Suzuki ICE car for 318000bht, instead of your EV costing 900,000bht.

I'm thinking that 500,000bht difference would have paid for a lifetimes worth of petrol.

How much do you spend on coffee and snacks while waiting for your EV to charge?

Over the road in a Celerio .... no thanks

20 kpL is nice, but not the comfort level for long drives.

Edited April 18, 2023 by KhunLA

[transam]

35 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Over the road in a Celerio .... no thanks

20 kpL is nice, but not the comfort level for long drives.

Have you ever been in a Celerio for a long drive...?

Don't answer that.........

I have been in an MG ZS on a long drive, my ass hurt, the owner sits on a Mr. DIY air cushion for the same reason..................????

[JBChiangRai]

2 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

5000 rpm ?? More like 2500 rpm, if that much. just did a 700 km run. Doubt you could have kept up.

You won’t keep up with an MG, BYD or Tesla BEV from any traffic light.

 

I wouldn’t want to drive 700km without at least one, preferably two coffee breaks, and that’s long enough to charge most BEV’s.

 

You have to drive one to appreciate the lack of NVH (Noise, Vibration & Harshness) which according to science is the main cause of driver fatigue.

 

10 years ago I had a 3.0 Toyota Vigo diesel, NVH was terrible. I replaced it with a Ford Ranger 3.2 Wildtrak, much better but still a poor comparison to an ICE car and none come close to a BEV.

Edited April 18, 2023 by JBChiangRai

[3NUMBAS]

evs in uk   face falling prices as unhappy owners give them back and go back to diesel

 

https://www.spectator.com.au/2022/08/lithium-lies/

[transam]

4 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

You won’t keep up with an MG, BYD or Tesla BEV from any traffic light.

 

I wouldn’t want to drive 700km without at least one, preferably two coffee breaks, and that’s long enough to charge most BEV’s.

 

You have to drive one to appreciate the lack of NVH (Noise, Vibration & Harshness) which according to science is the main cause of driver fatigue.

 

10 years ago I had a 3.0 Toyota Vigo diesel, NVH was terrible. I replaced it with a Ford Ranger 3.2 Wildtrak, much better but still a poor comparison to an ICE car and none come close to a BEV.

What about a Morris 1000, or a Ford Prefect, we drove zillions of miles in those wiv no ploblems, I think you have been pampered....????

[GroveHillWanderer]

1 hour ago, transam said:

Have you ever been in a Celerio for a long drive...?

Don't answer that.........

I have been in an MG ZS on a long drive, my ass hurt, the owner sits on a Mr. DIY air cushion for the same reason..................????

I guess everybody's different. I've driven my MG ZS on a number of long drives (typically, over 700 km at a time) and found it eminently comfortable. Much more so than the Isuzu SUV that I used to do the same kinds of trips in before.

 

Never needed a cushion and nor did anyone else travelling with me (I usually have three other adults in the car).

[placeholder]

On 3/4/2023 at 7:46 PM, transam said:

It will be interesting in 10 years +, how batteries have really lasted, especially with the cheap rides, like MG.

 

I can't see how it can be claimed batteries will last for 10-20 years, as none have done it yet, except perhaps Tesla.

 

I think this, because with basic car batteries, with a 4 year warrantee back home, have failed early and cost the manufacturer money.

 

Furthermore, I expect a 10 year old EV will be worth near nothing, whereas, petrol/diesel rides, especially here, hold their value....

 

I to expect a real improvement in EV batteries, seem to read a lot about research on it, I reckon they know the EV batteries are a weak link...

 

 

Surprise! Nissan LEAF Batteries Last Much Longer Than Expected

“Almost all of the [EV] batteries we’ve ever made are still in cars, and we’ve been selling electric cars for 12 years. We haven’t got a great big stock of batteries that we can convert into something else,” he added. “It’s the complete opposite of what people feared when we first launched EVs — that the batteries would only last a short time.”

https://cleantechnica.com/2022/09/21/surprise-nissan-leaf-batteries-last-much-longer-than-expected/

[JBChiangRai]

1 hour ago, transam said:

What about a Morris 1000, or a Ford Prefect, we drove zillions of miles in those wiv no ploblems, I think you have been pampered....????

My first car was a Mini 850, I hated it.

[EVENKEEL]

50 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

You won’t keep up with an MG, BYD or Tesla BEV from any traffic light.

 

I wouldn’t want to drive 700km without at least one, preferably two coffee breaks, and that’s long enough to charge most BEV’s.

 

You have to drive one to appreciate the lack of NVH (Noise, Vibration & Harshness) which according to science is the main cause of driver fatigue.

 

10 years ago I had a 3.0 Toyota Vigo diesel, NVH was terrible. I replaced it with a Ford Ranger 3.2 Wildtrak, much better but still a poor comparison to an ICE car and none come close to a BEV.

2 head calls with a 7-11 stop and back on the road again. I don't take notice of a rough ride, now fighting for every inch going through Songkran traffic does get tedious.