ICE vs EV, the debate thread

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, transam said:

Now that's better, worth waiting for...........

Too old to wait, and not being mass produced now. If not for a year or two, then we would have loss the ฿40k+ we're saving every year now, by not buying petrol (฿120-160k), along with addition depreciation of the ICEV we had, another 10% a year, so at least another ฿100k.

 

All that's moot, if not produced in an affordable EV, sold in TH, as now, most cars here have BYD or CATL batteries in them.

 

Surely the first 1-3-5 yrs of production with SS batteries will be in higher end cars.  And as the Viking states, anything over 500kms range is a bit silly anyway.   As we rarely go over 240 kms on any 1 leg of our O&A, as already 3+ hrs on the road, and I need a break.  And too easy to top up, while taking a break.  20-30-40 mins max and we're back to 95%, and another 3+ hrs of driving, which is rarely going to happen anyway, in the same day.

 

Furthest we drive, at one time South, is 360 kms, 5hrs w/stop included..  North, rarely past Krung Thep, <300 kms, and once up to Ayutthaya, which was also 360 kms, and a 6 hr driving day, w/stop included, at least 1, longer if more stops.  Only need 1 to charge @ 30 ish mins, both directions.

 

5 or 6 hr day on Thai roads is more than enough for me, and especially wife & dog.  I did use to drive a truck, and 20 hrs Philly, PA, USA, to Miami, FL was one of my regular runs, or Tropicana OJ plant on west coast of FL.  Those days of long are behind me.

 

Longest day on road here, with stops, was about 10+ hrs, starting at 0657, and checking into hotel at 1718 hrs.  A lot of long stops though.

 

Miss G-timeline is telling me. and said part was, only 232 kms & 6 hrs of actually driving.

Made a pitstop at Hua Hin, to sell the ICE MG ZS (1 hr), the MG dealer/Kanchanaburi to charge (1hr 20mins) so obviously using internet, no plan, no booking, as car shouldn't have taken more than 45 to go to 100%.  NO Q  ... Done before I was on the internet, w/wife calling hotels.

 

Then we stopped and had dinner, after looking at 2 places to stay, then back and checked in.

[KhunLA]

Older Tesla Model 3s with 300+ miles, not bad at all, considering the older tech.

 

 

[KhunLA]

Say it's not so ... Cross pinching MG's styling 😲

 

[Yellowtail]

2016

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

2016

You missed my point, as every car seemed to have the same boring grills, whether black oval to add contrast & highlight badge, or worse, metal/silver/chrome.

 

MG ZS one of, if not first (in TH) to do away with 2022 facelift.  Which I actually thought was too plain & ugly.   But after seeing a few driving towards me, really warmed up to it's uniqueness, and quite like it now. 

 

All the other EVs from CH, seem to eliminate the 'grill work' also, and very minimalistic / aerodynamic, with maybe an illuminated strip across the front.   Much better than the ol' standard unstylish designs we've been trained to accept.

 

ZS's is very practical also, having the charging port in the front.  When using CSs, no worries or hassle of trying to plug into the side, when someone is parked too close to you.  Convenient for the wife anyway, not me, as she's in control of charging when O&A.

[KhunLA]

Whoa ... 91 @ ฿38.73 locally ... yikes.  Remember when it was 1/3 that price, along with 15% more, as a high price.   ฿2 baht since one month ago.  My savings with the EVs just keep on growing 

[transam]

1 minute ago, KhunLA said:

Whoa ... 91 @ ฿38.73 locally ... yikes.  Remember when it was 1/3 that price, along with 15% more, as a high price.   ฿2 baht since one month ago.  My savings with the EVs just keep on growing 

But driving an MG, one has to put a bag over one's head..........😂

[JBChiangRai]

5 minutes ago, transam said:

But driving an MG, one has to put a bag over one's head..........😂

People with an avatar like yours Sam, shouldn't throw stones!

[transam]

1 minute ago, JBChiangRai said:

People with an avatar like yours Sam, shouldn't throw stones!

What's wrong with a James Taylor photo.....?  😯

 

Sam, I had a dog called Sam, Irish Setter, most use, Trans, I like Trans..........

[JBChiangRai]

3 minutes ago, transam said:

What's wrong with a James Taylor photo.....?  😯

 

Sam, I had a dog called Sam, Irish Setter, most use, Trans, I like Trans..........

 

Tranny Sam, it has a certain ring to it.

[transam]

4 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Tranny Sam, it has a certain ring to it.

It does..?  

[KhunLA]

"honey ... I'm taking your Celerio down to the pub, and hang with the lads"

 

      

[KhunLA]

[Rampant Rabbit]

On 4/4/2024 at 1:37 PM, transam said:

Now that's better, worth waiting for...........

dont hold  yer breath this guys an expert at posting "coming soon"

[transam]

27 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Aaaaah, a Trans Am, thanks for the memory.......

[transam]

2 hours ago, KhunLA said:

"honey ... I'm taking your Celerio down to the pub, and hang with the lads"

 

      

Is this your other MG that you couldn't fix..........😥

 

 

[GroveHillWanderer]

More promising news on the battery technology front - a breakthrough on solid state sodium-ion batteries. 

 

Battery breakthrough could eliminate range anxiety for electric vehicles

 

Sodium has multiple advantages over lithium, being cheaper, more abundant, less polluting to produce and safer to use. Mass production of sodium batteries has been proving difficult, however this breakthrough "could overcome this obstacle through the mass synthesis of a highly conductive electrolyte."

 

Also, as the article points out: 

 

Quote

solid-state batteries could offer a range of 1,200 km, which is more than twice the range of electric vehicles currently on the market. Charge times for these new batteries could be as short as 10 minutes.

 

[richard_smith237]

6 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

More promising news on the battery technology front - a breakthrough on solid state sodium-ion batteries. 

 

Battery breakthrough could eliminate range anxiety for electric vehicles

 

Sodium has multiple advantages over lithium, being cheaper, more abundant, less polluting to produce and safer to use. Mass production of sodium batteries has been proving difficult, however this breakthrough "could overcome this obstacle through the mass synthesis of a highly conductive electrolyte."

 

Also, as the article points out: 

 

 

Good points.... Although, range anxiety is something I consider more akin to paranoia of the unknown rather than a geunie concern based in fact....   How many of us regularly folk really drive any further than 200km per day? - so range anxiety should never really come into it at all for the average person doing an average commute.

 

The primary concern I have always held for EV ownership is the 'price cliff' potential whereby any 'cost savings' of owning an EV are contradicted by the potentail loss of value of the vehicle after 6 or 7 years.

 

How much is a 6 year old Tesla these days ?

 

 

 

 

[GroveHillWanderer]

3 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Good points.... Although, range anxiety is something I consider more akin to paranoia of the unknown rather than a geunie concern based in fact....   How many of us regularly folk really drive any further than 200km per day? - so range anxiety should never really come into it at all for the average person doing an average commute.

While it's true that range anxiety might be more of a fear than a real thing for most typical drivers, if there's a battery which will offer you twice the range, a third or less of the charging time and is cheaper, safer and less polluting, then what's not to like?

[Yellowtail]

13 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Good points.... Although, range anxiety is something I consider more akin to paranoia of the unknown rather than a geunie concern based in fact....   How many of us regularly folk really drive any further than 200km per day? - so range anxiety should never really come into it at all for the average person doing an average commute.

 

The primary concern I have always held for EV ownership is the 'price cliff' potential whereby any 'cost savings' of owning an EV are contradicted by the potentail loss of value of the vehicle after 6 or 7 years.

 

How much is a 6 year old Tesla these days ?

 

The used Teslas seem to hold their value pretty good. In the US, a new model 3 starts at just under $41K, and a six-year old is selling for about $25-30K 

[richard_smith237]

19 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

The used Teslas seem to hold their value pretty good. In the US, a new model 3 starts at just under $41K, and a six-year old is selling for about $25-30K 

 

Which is better than an ICE and indicates that my concern of the 'price cliff' is possibly unwarranted. 

 

[Yellowtail]

4 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Which is better than an ICE and indicates that my concern of the 'price cliff' is possibly unwarranted. 

 

Or about the same. A new Camry starts at about $26K in the US and a 2018 model sells for $11-30k. 

 

Keep in mind, a Tesla is not a Chevy Volt, and a Camry is not a Yugo. I'm guessing that at least in the US, Tesla and Toyota enjoy pretty good resale value. 

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

The primary concern I have always held for EV ownership is the 'price cliff' potential whereby any 'cost savings' of owning an EV are contradicted by the potentail loss of value of the vehicle after 6 or 7 years.

 

How much is a 6 year old Tesla these days ?

Agree, range isn't really an issue, especially with ranges of 500+ kms available, and even more in the short future, and soon to be reasonably priced.

 

Value after 6-7 yr, which is about the time we unloaded our first 3 ICEV purchased new.   Why, because after 125-150 kms, that's when things start to wrong with the motors.  All them 2000 plus parts, along with exhaust system, that will start rusting need replacing.

 

EV's electric motors aren't going to have that problem, hopefully, as tend the run forever.  Our thinking, unless upgrading just for the hell of it, doubtful, we'll never really sell the car.  Might buy a truck or van for O&A, and convert to RV, if one comes along soon that we like.

 

As suggested a few times, when the rest of the car can't keep up with the battery or motors, most likely scenario, the battery pack will be added to our solar system, and hopefully a market for the motors will established by then.

 

Savings on petrol alone, may even pay for the new EV.   Saving 40-50k a year  now, so 10 yrs or 20ys from now, buys a 500k or 1M baht new car, or good part of the funds towards it.   

 

Resale value, I don't need no stinkin' resale value ... 

[ExpatOilWorker]

2 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

How much is a 6 year old Tesla these days ?

Not as much as it used to be 😊.

 

[ExpatOilWorker]

2 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Agree, range isn't really an issue, especially with ranges of 500+ kms available, and even more in the short future, and soon to be reasonably priced.

 

Value after 6-7 yr, which is about the time we unloaded our first 3 ICEV purchased new.   Why, because after 125-150 kms, that's when things start to wrong with the motors.  All them 2000 plus parts, along with exhaust system, that will start rusting need replacing.

 

EV's electric motors aren't going to have that problem, hopefully, as tend the run forever.  Our thinking, unless upgrading just for the hell of it, doubtful, we'll never really sell the car.  Might buy a truck or van for O&A, and convert to RV, if one comes along soon that we like.

 

As suggested a few times, when the rest of the car can't keep up with the battery or motors, most likely scenario, the battery pack will be added to our solar system, and hopefully a market for the motors will established by then.

 

Savings on petrol alone, may even pay for the new EV.   Saving 40-50k a year  now, so 10 yrs or 20ys from now, buys a 500k or 1M baht new car, or good part of the funds towards it.   

 

Resale value, I don't need no stinkin' resale value ... 

Range anxiety is a thing of the past and was real for the first EVs with unreliable range. Top Gear did a few segments where the trio was driving along with 200 km range and then 30 km later, range had dropped to 20 km. With few to no charging stations around, they have to run a power cable out a hotel window to charge over night.

There is no range anxiety or any other kind of anxiety with the cars you guys are driving now and the current charging station infrastructure. 

 

[Gweiloman]

13 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Range anxiety is a thing of the past and was real for the first EVs with unreliable range. Top Gear did a few segments where the trio was driving along with 200 km range and then 30 km later, range had dropped to 20 km. With few to no charging stations around, they have to run a power cable out a hotel window to charge over night.

There is no range anxiety or any other kind of anxiety with the cars you guys are driving now and the current charging station infrastructure. 

 

I think we need to report this post to the mods as I suspect this account has been hacked.

 

I suspect @JBChiangRai as I believe he’s an IT guy…

[JBChiangRai]

2 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

I think we need to report this post to the mods as I suspect this account has been hacked.

 

I suspect @JBChiangRai as I believe he’s an IT guy…

 

@ExpatOilWorker does seem to be mellowing, he's almost "normal", it must be the holiday he's enjoying. Or maybe he test drove an EV and has seen the light?

 

 

[KhunLA]

54 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

@ExpatOilWorker does seem to be mellowing, he's almost "normal", it must be the holiday he's enjoying. Or maybe he test drove an EV and has seen the light?

@ExpatOilWorker  Come on ... Seal Performance ... you know you want one 

 

[Pib]

17 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Not as much as it used to be 😊.

 

 

 

Above "used" Tesla prices pretty much follow below "new" Tesla prices.  If the new vehicle price drops the corresponding used vehicle price will drop.   Same thing happens for ICEV or most any product.

[ExpatOilWorker]

2 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

@ExpatOilWorker does seem to be mellowing, he's almost "normal", it must be the holiday he's enjoying. Or maybe he test drove an EV and has seen the light?

 

 

We need to build a sustainable future for the next generation, by pumping $100 oil 😉 .

We are not there yet, neither with the sustainable future, $100 oil nor a (fully) change in my attitude 😀, but I am in good company and enjoying the holiday 🌴 🏝.