ICE vs EV, the debate thread

[KhunLA]

4 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Did they not say white smoke? Diesel burns black. 

I don't care ... but did you ever stop to think, the fire didn't start in or from a car, but then they all caught on fire.  I guess a ship for of batteries would burn white.  Doesn't mean some drunk didn't fall asleep with a lit cigarette to start the fire.

 

I'm pretty sure they never know the cause, but EV causing makes the best headline.

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, KhunLA said:

I didn't call the person asking stupid, that would be rude.   Implied people not planning their trip properly stupid.  It's not rocket science.

 

Y'all want to be anti EV, fine ... UP2U, but the continued 'what if' scenarios are silly.  What if WW3 breaks out & theirs no oil, or the planet runs out.  Didn't that almost happen in 1973 ? 

 

Grid goes down and you can't pump petrol.  Laos & Myanmar get pis sed at TH, and cut off the natural gas supply ... oh c r a p.  What if ... please.

 

I guess me, EVs & solar have nothing to worry about.  There's planning.  Nice trailer with solar panels, charge up during the day, drive at night, have a few solar generators.  

 

ICE vs EV ... it's a no brainer all the way around.

 

Have a nice day ... PEACE OUT

You're right, EVs are perfect for no-brainers...

 

Not sure about Thailand, but in the US, the government  mandates mast stations can still pump gas and diesel when the grid goes down. 

 

 

[transam]

7 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

I didn't call the person asking stupid, that would be rude.   Implied people not planning their trip properly stupid.  It's not rocket science.

 

Y'all want to be anti EV, fine ... UP2U, but the continued 'what if' scenarios are silly.  What if WW3 breaks out & theirs no oil, or the planet runs out.  Didn't that almost happen in 1973 ? 

 

Grid goes down and you can't pump petrol.  Laos & Myanmar get pis sed at TH, and cut off the natural gas supply ... oh c r a p.  What if ... please.

 

I guess me, EVs & solar have nothing to worry about.  There's planning.  Nice trailer with solar panels, charge up during the day, drive at night, have a few solar generators.  

 

ICE vs EV ... it's a no brainer all the way around.

 

Have a nice day ... PEACE OUT

You can't row a boat without oar's.....????

[KhunLA]

48 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Here you go:

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/cargo-ship-carrying-luxury-vehicles-to-us-sinks-in-atlantic/#x

 

The entire cargo of the ship was cars, not just one container.

 

Applying Occam's razor, the cause of the fire would be fairly obvious.

 

Empty ships don't usually catch fire, it's the cargo that is almost always the culprit.

" RIGHT NOW THEY HAVE NOW SOLID EVIDENCE "  ...  ????????????

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, KhunLA said:

I don't care ... but did you ever stop to think, the fire didn't start in or from a car, but then they all caught on fire.  I guess a ship for of batteries would burn white.  Doesn't mean some drunk didn't fall asleep with a lit cigarette to start the fire.

 

I'm pretty sure they never know the cause, but EV causing makes the best headline.

I know you don't care, guys like you never do.

 

I did not see the headline that  the fire was caused by EVs, do you have a link? If anything it was like Exxon was hiding it. 

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, KhunLA said:

" RIGHT NOW THEY HAVE NOW SOLID EVIDENCE "  ...  ????????????

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

PEACE, LOVE, BE FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[KhunLA]

Back on Topic ...

 

[Yellowtail]

5 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Back on Topic ...

 

Is this another Exxon video? 

[transam]

3 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Back on Topic ...

 

It should be..

"Do you worry about running out of charge in an EV when you don't have to in a petrol car as you can top up in a zillion places"...

 

Though I must confess, 1995, driving a Cady through the Florida Everglades looking at the fuel gauge nudging empty, not a gas station to be seen.....????

[Yellowtail]

It is interesting that the video goes on and on about how much power is used to pump the oil out of the ground, but does it ever get around to admitting they'll still need to pump the oil out to charge the EVs?

 

[KhunLA]

10 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

It is interesting that the video goes on and on about how much power is used to pump the oil out of the ground, but does it ever get around to admitting they'll still need to pump the oil out to charge the EVs?

 

Did you not notice, it's a work in progress, 40ish % in USA, 50 ish percent in EU, the energy is from clean sources.  Though I think nukes is the majority, and sort of disagree.  But better than fossil (coal / oil).

No reason why most homeowners aren't going solar.  Nationalize the oil industry, Stop subsidizing, huge tax on their huge profits .... pick one, and they could finance clean energy extremely fast.

 

But since big oil controls the politicians ... well ... nuff said.

[Yellowtail]

4 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Did you not notice, it's a work in progress, 40ish % in USA, 50 ish percent in EU, the energy is from clean sources.  Though I think nukes is the majority, and sort of disagree.  But better than fossil (coal / oil).

No reason why most homeowners aren't going solar.  Nationalize the oil industry, Stop subsidizing, huge tax on their huge profits .... pick one, and they could finance clean energy extremely fast.

 

But since big oil controls the politicians ... well ... nuff said.

You're heart is in the right place, but surely after the energy debacle in Germany and the Ukraine invasion you know this is all a lie. The numbers all come from the maximum capacity, not from what is actually produced. 

 

If the left would allow nuclear energy, EVs would make a lot more sense. I still thing there are great for a lot of things, and if I were to buy a small car as a second for my kid I would certainly consider one.

 

I spent about ฿1.72M for my current vehicle, it's five or six years old and I spend less than ฿2K a month for fuel, I can go a little over 800km on a tank of fuel, and I spend about ฿2,500 every six months for service.

 

How much do I stand to gain by replacing it with an EV? 

 

I'm not knocking them, but they just do not seem to pencil out for me. If I had a big home in the county and could charge the car during the day with solar panels it might make sense, IF I needed a new car anyway. 

 

 

 

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

A ship powered by diesel ... diesel cars and trucks never catch fire ... ????

 

Mute subject, as not coming from China, so who cares, unless waiting for a car in Americas

 

Has nothing to do with ICE vs EV.

It's actually quite difficult to get diesel to burn, that's why it is preferred to gasoline in military vehicles.

I'm wondering when someone will start collecting statistics of spontaneous ICE fires vs spontaneous EV fires, could be interesting.

You think the Chinese are better at quality control than the Germans? That's a novel opinion.

Driving on Thai roads, have you thought about what could happen in an accident, when a pickup crushes all your batteries together?

[KhunLA]

2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

You're heart is in the right place, but surely after the energy debacle in Germany and the Ukraine invasion you know this is all a lie. The numbers all come from the maximum capacity, not from what is actually produced. 

 

If the left would allow nuclear energy, EVs would make a lot more sense. I still thing there are great for a lot of things, and if I were to buy a small car as a second for my kid I would certainly consider one.

 

I spent about ฿1.72M for my current vehicle, it's five or six years old and I spend less than ฿2K a month for fuel, I can go a little over 800km on a tank of fuel, and I spend about ฿2,500 every six months for service.

 

How much do I stand to gain by replacing it with an EV? 

 

I'm not knocking them, but they just do not seem to pencil out for me. If I had a big home in the county and could charge the car during the day with solar panels it might make sense, IF I needed a new car anyway. 

 

 

 

I worked out the numbers, and for me, saves me about 500k baht over 8 yrs at least, if I do 20k a year.  The rest, afterwards is almost free transport, probably for 5-10 yrs more, which doubtful I'll be around, but the wife will have nothing to worry about.  The battery will degrade by then, but she's not an out & about person, and short hops is all she use it for.

 

It's strictly an economical decision, though a nice plus that I'm polluting a lot less by having EVs.  

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

I worked out the numbers, and for me, saves me about 500k baht over 8 yrs at least, if I do 20k a year.  The rest, afterwards is almost free transport, probably for 5-10 yrs more, which doubtful I'll be around, but the wife will have nothing to worry about.  The battery will degrade by then, but she's not an out & about person, and short hops is all she use it for.

 

It's strictly an economical decision, though a nice plus that I'm polluting a lot less by having EVs.  

How old is your car now? 

[KhunLA]

4 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

It's actually quite difficult to get diesel to burn, that's why it is preferred to gasoline in military vehicles.

I'm wondering when someone will start collecting statistics of spontaneous ICE fires vs spontaneous EV fires, could be interesting.

You think the Chinese are better at quality control than the Germans? That's a novel opinion.

Driving on Thai roads, have you thought about what could happen in an accident, when a pickup crushes all your batteries together?

Another what if ?  

 

22 yrs here, no accident yet.  If hit hard enough to compromise the battery bank, then that will be the least of my worries.   Did you not see the vid of the aftermath of the Tesla his so hard it split in 2, and nothing, battery wise happened.

 

BYD has that new battery they punctured, and heated up, and safe as can be.

 

How about get hit hard enough to compromise a petrol fuel tank.   The explodes immediately, at least a battery fire, you may have some time to get out.  Short, but better than a petrol explosion.

 

Stop with the what if ... they ridiculous.   No accidents in 40 yrs, and I'm supposed to start worrying the last 10 yrs of my life, because I'm in an EV ... ????

[KhunLA]

3 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

How old is your car now? 

EV, on order.   ICE - 20 months.  

E-motorcycle - 8 months

E-bike - 6 months

[Yellowtail]

7 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

EV, on order.   ICE - 20 months.  

E-motorcycle - 8 months

E-bike - 6 months

Oh, I thought you had an ICE MG, no? 

[Lacessit]

10 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Another what if ?  

 

22 yrs here, no accident yet.  If hit hard enough to compromise the battery bank, then that will be the least of my worries.   Did you not see the vid of the aftermath of the Tesla his so hard it split in 2, and nothing, battery wise happened.

 

BYD has that new battery they punctured, and heated up, and safe as can be.

 

How about get hit hard enough to compromise a petrol fuel tank.   The explodes immediately, at least a battery fire, you may have some time to get out.  Short, but better than a petrol explosion.

 

Stop with the what if ... they ridiculous.   No accidents in 40 yrs, and I'm supposed to start worrying the last 10 yrs of my life, because I'm in an EV ... ????

What ifs are what insurance companies do to assess the risks of events they are providing cover for. I think it's a safe bet they are hastily revising the premiums to insure vehicle ship-borne cargoes.

 

I accept instructions from moderators on what I should and should not post on ASEAN, you are not one of them.

[macahoom]

38 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I'm wondering when someone will start collecting statistics of spontaneous ICE fires vs spontaneous EV fires, could be interesting.

https://thedriven.io/2022/01/11/evs-have-extremely-low-chance-of-catching-fire-but-hybrids-more-risky-data-shows/

[KhunLA]

19 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I accept instructions from moderators on what I should and should not post on ASEAN, you are not one of them.

Just don't expect any reply from myself, in your what if scenarios.

 

I got a what if for you .... what if you never reply to me again, save me seeing any more from you, on this topic.

[KhunLA]

29 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Oh, I thought you had an ICE MG, no? 

Yea, that would be the ICE of 20 months, the ZS.

[Yellowtail]

12 minutes ago, macahoom said:

https://thedriven.io/2022/01/11/evs-have-extremely-low-chance-of-catching-fire-but-hybrids-more-risky-data-shows/

Ridiculous 

[Yellowtail]

3 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Yea, that would be the ICE of 20 months, the ZS.

So your getting rid of that to get the EV or you're keeping both? 

[KhunLA]

2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

So your getting rid of that to get the EV or you're keeping both? 

Probably keeping both, for  awhile at least.  Though really hard to justify having 2 cars.  Especially since the daughter's car has plenty of life in it.   

[Lacessit]

4 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Just don't expect any reply from myself, in your what if scenarios.

 

I got a what if for you .... what if you never reply to me again, save me seeing any more from you, on this topic.

There is no requirement for you to read the posts I make on this thread. IIRC, you said in your OP "have at it." Having second thoughts?

I am not against EV's per se. What I do get impatient with is the virtue signalling, and the treatment of EV's as the latest religion, when they do have some flaws still to be addressed.

[KhunLA]

Interesting  ...  that's a lot of fires, though have to admit, I've seen my share over the years.

 

[Lacessit]

1 minute ago, KhunLA said:

Interesting  ...  that's a lot of fires, though have to admit, I've seen my share over the years.

 

 

Given the numbers per 100K sales, that statistic is pretty damning for hybrids. Could it be gasoline and batteries don't mix well?

[Yellowtail]

Just now, KhunLA said:

Interesting  ...  that's a lot of fires, though have to admit, I've seen my share over the years.

 

 

The article is ridicules. Do you really think over three out of a hundred Hybrids are burning?

 

I've seen a few car fires, most were arson or accidental while doing engine work.

[motdaeng]

10 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

The article is ridicules. Do you really think over three out of a hundred Hybrids are burning?

 

I've seen a few car fires, most were arson or accidental while doing engine work.

it is 3 out of 100'000 ... ????