Did you try to learn Thai? How did you get on? How old were you? Was it worth it? Regrets?

[law ling]

Other than the little I know to get by, I gave up serious study of Thai once I was taught the rules of how to work out the tone of a word from its spelling: a complex set of multiple rules that every word must be subjected to - sorry, but to me it is a language of insane (and otherwise unnecessary) complexity.

 

Plus:

 

- can't read signs due to odd fonts,

- no space between words,

- most Thais can't help ... they cannot speak slower, louder or clearer when asked,

- many Thais speak dialects,

- I could go on ...

 

To many, its complexity may be a challenge they relish ... but to me, the tone rules were a deal breaker.

[underthesky]

I think it's worth learning - I can think of several experiences where having a bit of Thai helped me out in day to day life.

 

The alphabet was tough to get a grasp of but I'm really glad that I managed to learn it in the end, and it spearheaded my further learning.

 

I've been using the Memrise app to learn. It doesn't have Thai on its default menu, but you can import various Thai courses by being logged in on your computer, and Google searching for 'Memrise thai'

Edited January 10, 2022 by underthesky
typo

[MarcelV]

My gf and I speak mostly English as her English is better than my Thai and she feels comfortable speaking it.

I do know enough Thai to get around and can read and write quite a few words.

I live in the deep south, where most people's first language is a Malay dialect (Jawi) but I never seriously started learning it as I felt Thai would be more beneficial anyway.

[BritManToo]

13 hours ago, Grecian said:

I'm 53 will move to Thailand this year. Will my 53 year old ears be able to handle a tonal language? 

will I be having better quality relationships if I'm speaking thai?????

In short is it worth the effort?

I learned to read, write and speak Central Thai at age 53.

It wasn't worth it for the following reasons.

1. Most Thais refuse to understand you speaking Thai.

2. None of my gfs or Thai family speak Central Thai amongst themselves.

3. Nobody is teaching Laos or Lanna (which is what most Thais outside Bangkok speak conversationally).

4. If the Thais around you realise you understand them, they immediately switch to another language.

 

In the end it was a total waste of my time and effort.

Edited January 10, 2022 by BritManToo

[BritManToo]

12 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

If someone would drop you in a little Thai village with everybody only speaking Thai, would you learn the language?

Sure, and fast. Because you have to.

Sure, but nobody in the rural village is speaking Central Thai.

And when you break up with your gf and move somewhere else, they'll all be speaking a different language.

[kokesaat]

If you're going to 'learn' Thai, go all in.....read/write/speak.  I started at 55, wear hearing aids (profound hearing loss), but lucked out with a neighbor who knew her Thai (mother was a Thai teacher) and wanted to expand her English.  Twice a week, 2 hours of English, 2 hours of Thai.....no charge either way.  

I tried an AUA class before that....15 foreigners....all wanted to learn different aspects of the language.  That didn't work.

Any way you go about it, it takes a lot of work.  If you convince yourself that you can't do it, well, you won't succeed.

I think I've counted over 3000 reasons to learn Thai......far too many to list here.  The list grows daily.

[Airalee]

12 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Your idea that Thai people appreciate...SO VERY MUCH....the farang who deign to learn Thai....is just too quaint an idea.

 

It's like.... Oh!  Do you see???  This Western god has deigned to learn our local language, and so we wish to bow down to him for his kindness and caring of our lowly language and culture.

Such hyperbole and misinterpretation.   Where did I say “SO VERY MUCH” or state that they would bow down to us?

 

You apparently hang out people who are very different than the ones I know.  Educated Thais seem to appreciate it even if they happen to be fluent in English.

[Gecko123]

Virtually impossible for non-native students to become proficient in pronunciation or build extensive vocabulary without first learning the alphabet and tonal system.

 

I used the Benjawn Poomsan Becker books and tapes and Mary Haas' Thai-English Student Dictionary. The advantage here is that they both use the same phonetic alphabet for pronunciation. All the transliteration guides I've seen are unreliable and will impede progress beyond the phrase book level. Almost all advanced Thai dictionaries will assume the user can read Thai, so without the writing system under your belt, vocabulary acquisition and retention will be painfully slow.

 

I started seriously studying Thai at the age of 40 while still living in America, and continued studying until I moved here at age 50. The number of times over the years when I have been grateful for having put in the effort are too numerous to count. The two caveats I would offer are that some Thais will try and take advantage of you no matter how good your Thai is. It just doesn't register with some people that being able to speak Thai means you've been around the block a few times. I would also say that nowadays, especially in the larger cities, many Thais will try to buffalo you into speaking English with them by claiming they can't understand your Thai no matter how good your Thai is. The tug of war over what language you are going to speak and who has the better command of which language can sometimes be tiresome, unlike in years past when so few Thais spoke any English at all. It's also a total myth that you can easily pick up the language "under the sheets" or by moving to a small village where no one speaks English. I don't think there's any substitute for getting a solid foundation by cracking the books either through language classes or self-study.

 

Due to social distancing during Covid, the opportunities to engage in casual conversations are much more limited, so in the past two years my Thai has really slipped quite a bit, just from disuse. I do enjoy studying languages a lot and I have been studying French virtually every single day for the past several years. I do subscribe to the belief that language study is good for the brain.

 

 

Edited January 10, 2022 by Gecko123

[BritManToo]

3 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

Virtually impossible for non-native students to become proficient in pronunciation or build extensive vocabulary without first learning the alphabet and tonal system.

 

I used the Benjawn Poomsan Becker books and tapes and Mary Haas' Thai-English Student Dictionary. The advantage here is that they both use the same phonetic alphabet for pronunciation. All the transliteration guides I've seen are unreliable and will impede progress beyond the phrase book level. Almost all advanced Thai dictionaries will assume the user can read Thai, so without the writing system under your belt, vocabulary acquisition and retention will be painfully slow.

Why didn't you just learn the Thai alphabet?

Takes 2-4 weeks.

Edited January 10, 2022 by BritManToo

[Gecko123]

24 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Why didn't you just learn the Thai alphabet?

Takes 2-4 weeks.

For the first year of study I used phrase books and language tapes which were the only resources available to me at the time. To learn how to read, write, and pronounce the 77 odd consonants and vowels,  memorize how the tone marks affect the different consonant classes, to understanding how vowel length and live and dead vowels affect the tone? Took you all of two weeks, eh?

 

It took me well over a year just to gain a reasonable degree of confidence that I understood and could consistently apply the tone rules, write clearly, recite the alphabet, quickly look up words in a dictionary, etc. Claiming that you accomplished this in less than a month beggars belief.

 

Edited January 10, 2022 by Gecko123

[recom273]

3 hours ago, mokwit said:

Don't know- the one I recommended if still there used the same materials as the one in Time Square - maybe called Union something. The point is this course was devised for NGO people/Missionaries to learn Thai before going to fulfill their role.

This is Unity Thai language - Yes, it was developed to teach missionaries - I checked on fb, their last post was about a year or so ago, and the website is dead, maybe another victim of the virus. There is a telephone number on fb.

[Chris.B]

2 hours ago, kokesaat said:

Any way you go about it, it takes a lot of work.  If you convince yourself that you can't do it, well, you won't succeed.

Well said! ????

[Don Chance]

They want you to speak Thai, it is a passive aggressiveness.

 

You will notice that many speak English well but strangely have no interest in speaking English with you. That is because they dislike your culture. I spent a year learning Spanish, i figured out the same the thing: i dislike Spanish culture and people. It was a complete waste of time, as someone mentioned above. Just stay in your Anglo bubble and enjoy the cheap eats and digs

.

[MarcelV]

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I learned to read, write and speak Central Thai at age 53.

It wasn't worth it for the following reasons.

1. Most Thais refuse to understand you speaking Thai.

2. None of my gfs or Thai family speak Central Thai amongst themselves.

3. Nobody is teaching Laos or Lanna (which is what most Thais outside Bangkok speak conversationally).

4. If the Thais around you realise you understand them, they immediately switch to another language.

 

In the end it was a total waste of my time and effort.

You do realize there are many Thai living in Central, Eastern or Southern Thailand that do not speak Laos (sp) or Lanna (?).

In my neck of the woods most (at least 80 percent) people speak Malay, which is completely different from Thai.

Edited January 10, 2022 by MarcelV

[Aforek]

6 hours ago, law ling said:

Other than the little I know to get by, I gave up serious study of Thai once I was taught the rules of how to work out the tone of a word from its spelling: a complex set of multiple rules that every word must be subjected to - sorry, but to me it is a language of insane (and otherwise unnecessary) complexity.

 

It's your opinion, but not mine : there are not so many tone rules, not very difficult to understand and the alphabet is just a question of memory 

what I like is that it's a very different language from  mine  ( French )

 

Trully , the real difficulty is the tones, but when you know how to read, it helps a lot to understand why it's a specific  tone and not an other one

and for me, upcountry, I can tell you that here, very few  people speak English, and as somebody told above, learning a foreign language is good for the brain ; I like English language , and I love Thai language????

[simon43]

I learnt to read/write/speak Thai when I was about 45 years old.  I attended Chula University and tended to have only Thai (or Issan) friends.  So Thai replaced French as my 2nd language ????

 

Now I just moved to live in Mauritius.  French is the main language that is used between foreigners and locals.  I keep putting Thai or Lao words in the middle of my sentences.... "Oh Merci, bor pen nyang". Je desire gin khao"!!  The locals must think I'm crazy ????

[kwilco]

Who would regret learning a new language??

 

I found Thai much more difficult than I thought.  I am still virtually illiterate, I can read road signs numberplates headlines and a few public notices etc.... but after working mainly with Thais for the last 15 years or so, I found my conversational Thai gradually improved until after 10 years, I realised it had become my first language for day to day communication.

 

I was in training and education, so was painfully aware of the shortcomings of asking the Thai person next to me for a quick linguistic explanation. You need a qualified person to give you that.

 

Aldo I have found that expats who rely on their Issan brides for any explanation of Thai language or culture are full of some of the most bizarre ideas.

 

It has been shown that most people grossly overrate their abilities with a foreign language. They aren't able to assess this objectively.

I know a lot of people who, when asked if they speak Thai reply, "not really but I know what they are saying" what a load of rubbish that is...who are they trying to kid?

I also know some people who have undergone formal university courses in Thai and still have difficulty ordering in a restaurant. Some of this is down to self-confidence. They will claim a high language ability yet still can't communicate.

 

Another thing I found useful was that I worked in Laos for some time and picked up a lot of useful Laos dialect. 

At almost any market in Thailand I found using a smattering of Laos hoped to break the ice and hoped me get better prices. (BTW ... can you count to 10 on one hand???)

It also helped learning a few Sourhern Thai words and phrases. After 27 years, I began recognising regional accents and found it really helped both in work and social life......it also helps in dealing with police.......I haven't had a road traffic fine for years.

Apart from learning Thai and Laos, I've picked up the odd word in Chinese, Japanese as well which has proved quite useful....no Khmer, Korean or Burmese though

 

Edited January 10, 2022 by kwilco

[Michel PUISSANT]

21 hours ago, Isaanlife said:

I know a little Thai, however, what I needed to know and concentrate on was Isaan language.

 

There is really nothing I have found out there, the one or 2 books are not to my liking.

 

So I started with the 5 W's. The who, what, where, why, how and when. What are you doing? Where have you been? Where are you going? What do you want to eat?

 

I would learn how to ask a question. My wife would repeat this over and over and I would write them down in my notebook in English the way I thought they sounded.

 

So far so good. Then learn some answers to basic questions. If you are going to ask a question you need to understand the answer.

 

Then slowly take words of things I know I will use and need to know, take a few a week and learn them. She would always ask me in Isaan so I got use to hearing it.

 

The Isaan word for no is Baw and it sounds like bawe like b and awe

 

Baw Me - Don't have

 

Baw Hai - Not giving to you

 

Baw Sep - Not delicious

 

Baw Mak - I don't like it

 

Baw Ow - I don't want it

 

Baw Sirr - Not buying

 

Baw Who - Don't know (use this alot!)

 

Baw Ma - Not coming

 

Baw Bpai- Not going

 

So you learn a lot of things just from using one word like Baw.

 

All you language experts, save your snarky comments. This is the way I learned for MYSELF and with my wife's help. Nothing more that that.

 

At least when I go out and about I can talk to the family and local folks and not be a complete idiot!

 

The hardest thing with Isaan is how fast they speak.

Ok good.
But why would you bother first with Isaan while people in Isaan also speak central Thai (they learned it at school) ?

Learn central Thai and you'll be able to communicate with everyone, be it a taxi driver in Bangkok or... your wife in Isaan ????

Edited January 10, 2022 by Michel PUISSANT

[Bohemianfish]

Pimsleur is a good option. 

[Guest Isaanlife]

53 minutes ago, Michel PUISSANT said:

Ok good.
But why would you bother first with Isaan while people in Isaan also speak central Thai (they learned it at school) ?

Learn central Thai and you'll be able to communicate with everyone, be it a taxi driver in Bangkok or... your wife in Isaan ????

What dialect do you refer to as Central Thai?

 

Central Thailand is exactly that.

 

Isaan is North and East. Not even close to the same region or dialect.

 

I get of kick out of posters telling other people that actually live there and speak everyday what the best way to communicate is.

 

 

 

 

[Michel PUISSANT]

I'm getting slightly upset reading about people justifying their lack of will by saying "oh this language has tone, I cannot cope with it". It *is* certainly an excuse for laziness.
Thai people don't even know what a "tone" is. It's just natural, they can't explain it. It's just a part of their music / language.

Think of it just as music. If you were a musician you'd play a certain phrase to express certain feelings. Well it's just the same with tones. You want to go up and down depending on the feeling / meaning.

You just have to train your brain to recognize and output it. And you're gonna be able to do so by listening for hours and hours to native speakers

I'm tired of people saying tonal languages are too hard it's sooo not true. It just takes more time for european people, true.

May I suggest everyone in this topic forget about books (I never opened a book about Thai grammar and now after 7 months of learning I'm at a conversational level -with my wife at least). Do have a look at that playlist from Comprehensible Thai :

 

 

Not only am I not getting paid for that but I also contribute to the channel. This is a participative channel, you're free to donate whatever you want.
Watch the first video and see how you do ????

Edited January 10, 2022 by Michel PUISSANT

[kwilco]

54 minutes ago, Isaanlife said:

What dialect do you refer to as Central Thai?

 

Central Thailand is exactly that.

 

Isaan is North and East. Not even close to the same region or dialect.

 

I get of kick out of posters telling other people that actually live there and speak everyday what the best way to communicate is.

 

 

 

 

I don't think you quite undstand. "Central Thai is the "official" language of Thailand. If you learn that, you will be understood wherever you go in Thailand. In Issan they speak a dialect that has a lot in common with Laos language.... there are a few notable pronunciation differences but you should have little difficulty understanding "Central Thai" ...the Thai equivalent of "Received pronunciation" in English.

I have on occasion had to explain my language to Central Thai people. You'd be surprised at how many don't know "Sao baht" is 20 baht in Laos.

[kwilco]

23 minutes ago, Michel PUISSANT said:

I'm getting slightly upset reading about people justifying their lack of will by saying "oh this language has tone, I cannot cope with it". It *is* certainly an excuse for laziness.
Thai people don't even know what a "tone" is. It's just natural, they can't explain it. It's just a part of their music / language.

Think of it just as music. If you were a musician you'd play a certain phrase to express certain feelings. Well it's just the same with tones. You want to go up and down depending on the feeling / meaning.

You just have to train your brain to recognize and output it. And you're gonna be able to do so by listening for hours and hours to native speakers

I'm tired of people saying tonal languages are too hard it's sooo not true. It just takes more time for european people, true.

May I suggest everyone in this topic forget about books (I never opened a book about Thai grammar and now after 7 months of learning I'm at a conversational level -with my wife at least). Do have a look at that playlist from Comprehensible Thai :

 

 

Not only am I not getting paid for that but I also contribute to the channel. This is a participative channel, you're free to donate whatever you want.
Watch the first video and see how you do ????

I have found as my language gets more fluent, I worry less and less about tone. Partly because I'm getting better at pronunciation but more do with that listeners can make out my meaning by context. If you speak in sentences rather than just individual words the meaning becomes clearer.

One thing I've noticed is that people tell me quite often that I say "Sawatdee Khrap" like a Thai person.

 

I have a friend who spent a lot of time and money on reading and writing lessons....however his spoken Thai is absolutely awful.  His pronunciation is so bad he just embarrasses Thai people he is speaking to as they can't understand a word he says, but don't know what to say. He just puts it down to THEM being stupid!

Edited January 10, 2022 by kwilco

[cdemundo]

Thai people notice and appreciate that you (we) make an effort to learn Thai.

They are not going to say anything to you but they also notice if you don't make any effort.

 

Start with hello, thank you, where is the bathroom?

Thai people generally love to help you learn,

You don't need to speak speak at a high level to get a favorable reaction from Thai people.

I am gonna give you some ideas from my experience as a non-genius language learner.

No doubt a lot of geniuses will chime in saying everything I say is wrong.

Judge for yourself, most of us are not trying to achieve native level skill in Thai and these processes have worked fo me to learn a little basic Thai.

 

(Some will disagree with the following but his is my experience.) Don't worry too much about tones, if you are saying a phrase rather than a single word they can usually understand even if you get the tone wrong.

As far as the tone rules, again if you use electronic resources you can learn the pronunciation by imitation just as 1st language learners do, (Here it comes, I can hear the keyboards clattering that knowing the tone rules is essential. In my opinion and experience no.)  In the time that you spend learning the rules you can learn a bunch of useful vocabulary and phrases.  

 

As far as phrasebooks, be sure to get one that has vocabulary in Thai script so if your Thai friend cannot understand you can show it to them.  If your phrasebook only has English transliteration Thai people won't necessarily be able to read it.

 

Learning the sounds of the alphabet can be done with a Thai child's ABC book. You know how the English word is pronounced so you can learn what sound each Thai character makes.

 

 

 

If you carry a pocket sized notebook with you, you will get lots of help from Thai people you meet who see you are making an effort.

 

 

 

If you just take it as a fun activity you have nothing to lose by learning a little bit of Thai: "nit noi paasaa Thai".

[cdemundo]

12 hours ago, law ling said:

Other than the little I know to get by, I gave up serious study of Thai once I was taught the rules of how to work out the tone of a word from its spelling: a complex set of multiple rules that every word must be subjected to - sorry, but to me it is a language of insane (and otherwise unnecessary) complexity.

 

Plus:

 

- can't read signs due to odd fonts,

- no space between words,

- most Thais can't help ... they cannot speak slower, louder or clearer when asked,

- many Thais speak dialects,

- I could go on ...

 

To many, its complexity may be a challenge they relish ... but to me, the tone rules were a deal breaker.

"To many, its complexity may be a challenge they relish ... but to me, the tone rules were a deal breaker."

 

I agree, the tone rules are sooo complex.

But you can learn pronunciation by imitation as native language learners do.

Numerous dictionaries for phones and laptops/desktops with audible pronunciation included starting with Google Translate.

 

This is true, "- can't read signs due to odd fonts,".

I remember as a kid learning to read I couldn't read the "cutesy" fonts on English ads as well.

Oh well.

 

[BritManToo]

5 hours ago, Michel PUISSANT said:

Ok good.
But why would you bother first with Isaan while people in Isaan also speak central Thai (they learned it at school) ?

Because you want to chat/understand groups of people.

And they don't talk central Thai to each other.

[cdemundo]

13 hours ago, Airalee said:

Such hyperbole and misinterpretation.   Where did I say “SO VERY MUCH” or state that they would bow down to us?

 

You apparently hang out people who are very different than the ones I know.  Educated Thais seem to appreciate it even if they happen to be fluent in English.

There are certain people for whom the "ignore" option was made.

[1FinickyOne]

On 1/10/2022 at 4:30 AM, GammaGlobulin said:

Your idea that Thai people appreciate...SO VERY MUCH....the farang who deign to learn Thai....is just too quaint an idea.

 

It's like.... Oh!  Do you see???  This Western god has deigned to learn our local language, and so we wish to bow down to him for his kindness and caring of our lowly language and culture.

What a load of rationalized <deleted>... deigning and bowing to kindness... I doubt any Thai think of their language and culture as "lowly" - - but if you do, they are surely perceptive enough to pick that up. 

 

It just becomes normal conversation... and if you live in Thailand, you have the opportunity to practice and learn everyday... communication in their language is usually more comfortable for them and many wonderful people. do not speak English. And that doesn't mean that they don't find joy in communicating with others. 

 

Your tendency to be repetitive and lecturing would be boring in any language... how well you might speak is complimented by how well you might listen and care as well.

[talahtnut]

I spoke Thai to a lady, she replied 'You speak very good Thai, but we do not

understand you', in perfect english.  Hotdamn!  Have you ever felt stupid?

[clivebaxter]

Started to learn in 1994, been to 2 language schools and bought the linguaphone course, tapes in those days. Did not get very far, hopeless with tomes which I cannot hear anyone using, even TV presenters, Found generally that Thais you need to communicate with such a shop workers, taxi drivers and waiters don't make an effort to try and understand, even giving over member numbers to cahiers often causes a problem. Gave up years ago- and the Mrs is a successful Thai language teacher, but not with me!. She says older western blokes are the worst learners, women are far better along with other Asians. Too much effort for little result IMO.