Roof sealing and painting (too good to be true?)

[HAPPYNUFF]

Back  in Australia, my  house   had cement tile  roofing.   Developed  leaks .    I thought it was     broken tiles,  Insurance   guy attended, an old retired builder.  Told me cement tiles  have a life of 20 years before glaze finish wears off  and become porous, and  on the average  house   tiles can hold nearly 2 ton of water   on  a rainy  day.      Had  it    treated,   Pressure clean,  2 coats of sealer, 2 coats of   special paint.  Dont know  the brands of either.  To make sure, I got up on the roof  and   painted the ridge cappings, which are  an extra cause of problems, with a product called "bond crete"   No more problem.      Here  in   Nakon Nowhere,   two Thai neighbours  had their  cement  tiled roofs   done.   First one didnt pressure clean, just sealer applied and  then painted.   Started to peal after 6 months...   Other neighbour  had  pressure cleaning,  sealer  and    special paint.  Dont know what brands he used, he  bought everything himself and had  guys do labouring, His total cost 70,000 baht, average size  house.  Across road from  us,  house, rented out,  now about 20 years old,  cement  roof is  absolutley u/s,  leaks    everywhere inside.  Owner wont spend money on   repairs. Tenants  very  upset.

[HAPPYNUFF]

Further to my previous post...  we  had   cement tiles on our house here, N akon Nowhere.   House is  about 20 years old.   Tiles had  lost their glaze finish,  didnt leak, just looked old and worn out  (like me).     and like    yours in the photo appear.     House is  2   big bedrooms,   big lounge, dining room, big kitchen, bathroom/toilet,  attached carprt.     All rooms are   very big.   Had the  lot replaced  with zinc aluminium roofing, with  insulation .    Cost of     roofing, 50,000  baht. Cost of labour  25,000 baht,    thats  old tiles removed as well,  company  threw in a  very large  wirly  bird  for  heat extraction,,,just needed to  instal   a few diagonally opposed  vents in the eaves to facilitate   air extracton flow.        House is much cooler  now, especially in the evening/night,   cement tiles held the heat before, now  by   7PM    roofing has  lost its  heat (I  got up and  checked it  few times)..   And talking  about labour costs   these days,    the builder (cousin of wife)   had to pay his top guy 900,  yes 900 baht a day, as he was    good  hard worker,  rest of his team demanded, and got 500 baht a day.

[Cake Monster]

10 hours ago, thainet said:

From the work on your own roof, what would you estimate the cost to be on a 3 storey apartment building of approx 400 sqm, using the metalsheet with foam underlay. Lot of labour involved, danger at that height and scaffolding rental cost. Thanks if you help on this.

The Apartments that I covered in Metal Sheets were the Thai type Dormitory Apartments, so height not a problem.

As others have said in the thread, the cost involved is dependent upon the Sheets you use.

Coloured Sheets are more expensive than plain Galvanized Sheets, and they are available in various Gauges of thickness, as is the Insulation .

Another factor that is overlooked, is that if you require the old roof covering completely stripped, then that is an additional cost

I suggest you look at the sheet prices for what you intend to do,add the cost of stripping the old roof if you want that and then add the cost of about 6 Guys @ 700 Baht per Day for 3 Days for your work.

Sorry to sound vague, but there are so many variables in your request

Good Luck

[thainet]

2 minutes ago, Cake Monster said:

The Apartments that I covered in Metal Sheets were the Thai type Dormitory Apartments, so height not a problem.

As others have said in the thread, the cost involved is dependent upon the Sheets you use.

Coloured Sheets are more expensive than plain Galvanized Sheets, and they are available in various Gauges of thickness, as is the Insulation .

Another factor that is overlooked, is that if you require the old roof covering completely stripped, then that is an additional cost

I suggest you look at the sheet prices for what you intend to do,add the cost of stripping the old roof if you want that and then add the cost of about 6 Guys @ 700 Baht per Day for 3 Days for your work.

Sorry to sound vague, but there are so many variables in your request

Good Luck

Appreciate  you taking the time..thks

[Cake Monster]

38 minutes ago, HAPPYNUFF said:

Further to my previous post...  we  had   cement tiles on our house here, N akon Nowhere.   House is  about 20 years old.   Tiles had  lost their glaze finish,  didnt leak, just looked old and worn out  (like me).     and like    yours in the photo appear.     House is  2   big bedrooms,   big lounge, dining room, big kitchen, bathroom/toilet,  attached carprt.     All rooms are   very big.   Had the  lot replaced  with zinc aluminium roofing, with  insulation .    Cost of     roofing, 50,000  baht. Cost of labour  25,000 baht,    thats  old tiles removed as well,  company  threw in a  very large  wirly  bird  for  heat extraction,,,just needed to  instal   a few diagonally opposed  vents in the eaves to facilitate   air extracton flow.        House is much cooler  now, especially in the evening/night,   cement tiles held the heat before, now  by   7PM    roofing has  lost its  heat (I  got up and  checked it  few times)..   And talking  about labour costs   these days,    the builder (cousin of wife)   had to pay his top guy 900,  yes 900 baht a day, as he was    good  hard worker,  rest of his team demanded, and got 500 baht a day.

Price sounds about right for the sheets not knowing the exact coverage, and if a good Job the Labour seems about right as all the old stuff was stripped off.

[MeaMaximaCulpa]

23 hours ago, misterphil said:

Thats a big roof. Do you live in a huge mansion? 

No, hardly a mansion! But my home is my castle...

[MeaMaximaCulpa]

23 hours ago, thailand49 said:

Title roof,  I'm no expert but 98,000 baht to power wash and paint!  That paint is temporary by the time you figure it out call the guy back at best you will get a blank look. 

It is very easy on these roof to find the lead if it is a one story you are in Pattaya give me a PM, I'll come over and give you a opinion?  Aside from a actual crack title the leaks majority of time comes from the cement holding down the top caps after time due to the heat the tiles or caps shift causing the cement to crack.  Pitch roof starts at the top runs down I got two buckets of roof sealer, gloves, and a 6 inches brush started at the top problem solve never paint the tiles or change the colors good for two years then starts to chip and flake my Thai Neighbor paid 25000 it still leaks and colors is all chip.  After I stop my leak since my roof is also over 15 years I did paint it by hand on cloudy days took me two months sections at a time. Only house out of 10 that doesn't leak. Good luck

Thanks, I will contact you if I get stuck. And yes, I do live outside Pattaya.

[MeaMaximaCulpa]

22 hours ago, MrJ2U said:

Almost be smarter to pay a little more and replace the roof.

 

Try to use someone reputable like SCG.

 

You'll have a real warranty that you can use if theres a problem.

 

I just think putting something over an old tiled roof will eventually leak and you'll be stuck with it.

 

Good luck.

 

Maybe you can send me a link with this advertised miracle paint stuff.

 

Leaking roofs, very stressful indeed.

Will check SCG and Thai Watsadu for new tiles. Asked the company who quoted me for tech specs just now, awaiting reply. Not holding my breath!

[MeaMaximaCulpa]

19 hours ago, bbko said:

OP, do you always just get one price quote and stop right there?

No, I also have info from another house using TOA multicoats, and this thread is to be able to get more info. Does that seem like "stopping right there" to you? As I learn more, my opinion can change. Now I will look at new tiles, I had (seemingly falsly) assumed that would be much more expensive, can seem I was wrong...

[MeaMaximaCulpa]

Man, too many replies to answer each one, but all read and appreciated. Thanks! Metal sheets are out due to noise, since with the existing tiles it is already noisy in hard rain, even with thick spray-on foam insulation on the ceiling. Many seems to have misunderstood the pictures, both were of the same roof, but at different photo angles. Here is another one, the bottom part is a small "lean-to" extending the eave, not relevant here.

[MeaMaximaCulpa]

Here is a pic of the roof of a neighbour. He did a pressure clean, patched visible cracks, two coats of what he called primer, I guess it was the TOA weathersealing. And then two coats of paint, also TOA roof paint. He used totslly unskilled labour, he had to supply all materials and all equipment, and tell then exactly what to do at each step. Took 3-4 guys 3 weeks to do. Cost 55-60K THB, not sure split labour/materials, but definitely more than half was materials. But somewhat smaller roof than mine. It still looks great 3 years after, and no leaks as far as I know. Not sure I can work with a crew like that, abd wife is at work, so cannot help.

[pagallim]

We repainted our house 7 years ago.   Part of the planned colour scheme meant changing the roof tile colour to charcoal grey.   Obviously in our climate, there would have been a significant increase in heat convection.   We chose to have foam insulation applied to the roof internals, which as well as being an excellent insulation, also came with the benefit of completely sealing any small cracks and effectively locked all the tiles in position.   The roof was pressure jetted, then a few days allowed for the tiles to dry out, and then an old concrete primer applied.   That was followed by two coats of normal concrete paint.   All the paints were Jotun (highly recommended).   Some photos, firstly of the under roof foam insulation, and a couple of the roof after painting.

[MeaMaximaCulpa]

3 minutes ago, pagallim said:

We repainted our house 7 years ago.   Part of the planned colour scheme meant changing the roof tile colour to charcoal grey.   Obviously in our climate, there would have been a significant increase in heat convection.   We chose to have foam insulation applied to the roof internals, which as well as being an excellent insulation, also came with the benefit of completely sealing any small cracks and effectively locked all the tiles in position.   The roof was pressure jetted, then a few days allowed for the tiles to dry out, and then an old concrete primer applied.   That was followed by two coats of normal concrete paint.   All the paints were Jotun (highly recommended).   Some photos, firstly of the under roof foam insulation, and a couple of the roof after painting.

Thanks! I like the roof colour, looks really nice, and of course Jotun is an old favourite being a norsky and all. But in the local Pattaya Jotun shop they didn't stock the roof paints. Can order of course if I end up going that route. Can you give me an idea of the costs for this project (as much details as you have), and approx roof area?

[sometimewoodworker]

26 minutes ago, MeaMaximaCulpa said:

Metal sheets are out due to noise, since with the existing tiles it is already noisy in hard rain, even with thick spray-on foam insulation on the ceiling.

Sheet metal is noisy in the tropical downpours, but, if you have insulation on it it reduces noise, then if you have a plasterboard ceiling it reduces noise, and if you have insulation rolls on top of the ceiling it reduces noise, then if you have double skin walls it reduces noise & lastly double glazing reduces noise.

 

so all in all; in my workshop with no ceiling I can’t hear myself think while in the bedroom it’s often difficult to know if it is raining if I wanted to reduce noise more I could add a second layer of plasterboard on the ceilings.

 

TLDR poorly installed/badly insulated sheet metal is very noisy. Well installed well insulated metal with good ceilings is quiet.

Edited January 20, 2022 by sometimewoodworker

[MrJ2U]

52 minutes ago, MeaMaximaCulpa said:

Will check SCG and Thai Watsadu for new tiles. Asked the company who quoted me for tech specs just now, awaiting reply. Not holding my breath!

Good luck.

 

Personally with money spent fixing and refixing leaks I would have happily paid more and used SCG.

 

The "promised" repairs from the roofing company I used never materialized.

 

SCG will come out and repair any leaks or problems.

 

But it is more pricey, but that peace of mind is priceless.

 

Get light colored roof tiles.  It'll save on air-conditioning costs.

 

Get White if you can.

[pagallim]

16 minutes ago, MeaMaximaCulpa said:

Thanks! I like the roof colour, looks really nice, and of course Jotun is an old favourite being a norsky and all. But in the local Pattaya Jotun shop they didn't stock the roof paints. Can order of course if I end up going that route. Can you give me an idea of the costs for this project (as much details as you have), and approx roof area?

Sprayed insulation (50mm thick) was circa 90,000 baht (from recollection, 400m2 was the approximate dimension, some of the roofing isn't visible in the photos).   Total cost of the house repainting (but excluding actual paint which I bought myself to ensure I was getting the correct specification/colour) including the roof, with all surfaces primed and two top coats, and inclusive of bamboo scaffolding where required.

 

Jotun didn't do a roof paint in the colour I wanted, had a good conversation with their technical department who recommended a standard cement paint.

 

The average internal temperature of the house is now lower than it was before, inspite of the dark roof, even in the roof space, and certainly no signs of water ingress.

[HighPriority]

30 yrs ago I worked as a salesman for one of Australias biggest “roof painting” companies.

We pressure cleaned, repaired the pointing to the ridge capping, primed and 2 coated the roof with an acrylic coating, which I believe was an early bathroom/balcony under tile waterproofing coating (think thick and rubbery) with some sort of uv stabiliser in it.

As far as I can see you have cement tiles where the initial coating has degraded but your ridge cap pointing looks uncosmetic but sound.

Our presentation to customers (we were a sales driven company) was that when the original coating broke down the cement tile was “enormously porous” and would place stress upon their roof structure… we were told the added weight was “up to 20% increased weight”.

I personally never believed that claim, but that was the company line, I’d suggest you maybe do an experiment to see how much one of your roof tiles increases in weight after soaking in a bucket of water for a day or two…

If you want your roof to have a nice color again I’d be pressure cleaning, repointing where required, priming and a couple of color coats. I’m a ceramic tiler in Australia and I believe in primers…

I said that your ridgecap pointing looks solid but unattractive but it looks like the (same ?) guy has cemented over some (cracked ?) roof tiles…?

If they are cracked tiles they are prime leakage points, leaks rarely drip straight down, they will run along rafters etc before they drip.

If tiles are cracked and then cemented they will recrack and leak… 100% guaranteed ????

You ideally would replace the affected tiles or as a (distant) 2nd option remove the patch cement and use clear silicone in between the two pieces of tile (in a continuous bead from 1 end to the other) and flatten the protruding silicone with your finger (spray with water/dishwashing liquid mix)

The moss/mould/fungus needs to be removed if a color coating is to be applied, there is a “knack” to it, as if done incorrectly the result will be moss not removed from the front vertical edge of the tile or excess water penetration into the roof cavity… 

Some water will get in, you can’t make omelettes without breaking eggs…

As mentioned any tiles that are out of alignment need to be repositioned so they will seal better.

Unfortunately I can’t offer you any advice on pricing but I’d be at least getting a price from “the best company” and use that as a reference, I personally don’t go with lowest quotes, but that’s my choice not yours, good luck ????

 

[MeaMaximaCulpa]

15 minutes ago, HighPriority said:

30 yrs ago I worked as a salesman for one of Australias biggest “roof painting” companies.

We pressure cleaned, repaired the pointing to the ridge capping, primed and 2 coated the roof with an acrylic coating, which I believe was an early bathroom/balcony under tile waterproofing coating (think thick and rubbery) with some sort of uv stabiliser in it.

As far as I can see you have cement tiles where the initial coating has degraded but your ridge cap pointing looks uncosmetic but sound.

Our presentation to customers (we were a sales driven company) was that when the original coating broke down the cement tile was “enormously porous” and would place stress upon their roof structure… we were told the added weight was “up to 20% increased weight”.

I personally never believed that claim, but that was the company line, I’d suggest you maybe do an experiment to see how much one of your roof tiles increases in weight after soaking in a bucket of water for a day or two…

If you want your roof to have a nice color again I’d be pressure cleaning, repointing where required, priming and a couple of color coats. I’m a ceramic tiler in Australia and I believe in primers…

I said that your ridgecap pointing looks solid but unattractive but it looks like the (same ?) guy has cemented over some (cracked ?) roof tiles…?

If they are cracked tiles they are prime leakage points, leaks rarely drip straight down, they will run along rafters etc before they drip.

If tiles are cracked and then cemented they will recrack and leak… 100% guaranteed ????

You ideally would replace the affected tiles or as a (distant) 2nd option remove the patch cement and use clear silicone in between the two pieces of tile (in a continuous bead from 1 end to the other) and flatten the protruding silicone with your finger (spray with water/dishwashing liquid mix)

The moss/mould/fungus needs to be removed if a color coating is to be applied, there is a “knack” to it, as if done incorrectly the result will be moss not removed from the front vertical edge of the tile or excess water penetration into the roof cavity… 

Some water will get in, you can’t make omelettes without breaking eggs…

As mentioned any tiles that are out of alignment need to be repositioned so they will seal better.

Unfortunately I can’t offer you any advice on pricing but I’d be at least getting a price from “the best company” and use that as a reference, I personally don’t go with lowest quotes, but that’s my choice not yours, good luck ????

 

Thanks for good info, I'm learning as e speak!

[unheard]

On 1/20/2022 at 5:32 PM, MeaMaximaCulpa said:

Metal sheets are out due to noise, since with the existing tiles it is already noisy in hard rain...

Metal sheets with an attached 25mm (or thicker) polyurethane PU insulation are not as noisy as you think.

And if you're ok with the looks, will provide a better option for a leak-proof roof.

[JAS21]

Haven’t read all above. But when it rained heavily my wife went inside the roof space and took photos of any damp patches. 
 

Took photos so that can count the tiles so know where to look on the roof top.

[Will B Good]

On 1/19/2022 at 10:46 AM, MeaMaximaCulpa said:

(slow dripping onto inner ceiling foam insulation)

Can I ask......did you ever have any trouble with the loft insulation? Do you think you really benefitted from having it installed?

 

We are having a house built and the 'architect' is dead set against it......claims it is too heavy for the ceiling, that animals will move in to make their homes in it....???

[AhFarangJa]

On 1/19/2022 at 3:15 PM, MeaMaximaCulpa said:

Thanks to all for answering.

We have had people up several times to fill cracks and realign tiles, with little to no effect.

I will certainly check for a full replacement of the roof tiles, assuming the steel is still ok (check for any rust, may need to paint). Steel is expensive now I hear.

Unless I get very convincing data about the single coat/no primer, I will tend to look for a full job with clean/prime/paint, unless of course the difference to a full new roof is quite small.

Again thanks for your contribution!

i have a large house with the same leaking problems in heavy rain. Mine is 17 years old. I have found two common problems causing leaking here. They do not use a felt under the tiles, and with a steel roof the steel contracts and expands in different temperatures, which in turn move the tiles over time. I had a friend who had the epoxy coating put on the roof, but they also used a fine cloth, so rather similar to sheathing a yacht. Not sure of the name, but I too am looking for a fix, if I find more info I will post here.

[AhFarangJa]

24 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

Can I ask......did you ever have any trouble with the loft insulation? Do you think you really benefitted from having it installed?

 

We are having a house built and the 'architect' is dead set against it......claims it is too heavy for the ceiling, that animals will move in to make their homes in it....???

i agree with one point, animals nesting. Cannot see woven glass being too heavy though. I have seen one product that was not around when I built my house, and that is spray foam. It insulates, and I think helps prevent leaking by forming a barrier so that any water runs out the end of the roof. Probably cheaper and better to have it done during construction.

[Will B Good]

Just now, AhFarangJa said:

i agree with one point, animals nesting. Cannot see woven glass being too heavy though. I have seen one product that was not around when I built my house, and that is spray foam. It insulates, and I think helps prevent leaking by forming a barrier so that any water runs out the end of the roof. Probably cheaper and better to have it done during construction.

Thanks.....will have a look at that option.

[MeaMaximaCulpa]

1 hour ago, Will B Good said:

Can I ask......did you ever have any trouble with the loft insulation? Do you think you really benefitted from having it installed?

 

We are having a house built and the 'architect' is dead set against it......claims it is too heavy for the ceiling, that animals will move in to make their homes in it....???

No, we never had problems with the ceiling insulation. It is around 5cm of sprayed-on foam, on top of a thin sheet of aluminium foil. So not too heavy. We have had the occasional rat up there, but not because of the foam. It happens in the rainy season, where the rats seek shelter. And with many openings to get in, it's a given.

 

And it is very good for lowering the temperature in the house plus reduce rain noise. So well worth it. But we have been advised against spraying foam on the back of the tiles.

 

An update to my initial post: We have had SCG here to survey and give us a quote for a full replacement of the roof tiles. They seem very professional, used drone to survey outside of roof + checked inside roof. They measure angles and give you an accurate size of your roof. We're just sorting out the final questions. It will not be cheap, but we deem it the best long term solution. The original roof was built by non-pros using substandard tiles and methods. Patching and putting lipstick on this pig is not worth it.

[MeaMaximaCulpa]

4 hours ago, unheard said:

Metal sheets with an attached 25mm (or thicker) polyurethane PU insulation are not as noisy as you think.

And if you're ok with the looks, will provide a better option for a leak-proof roof.

Thanks for that, we have considered metal sheets, but came down on tiles. See my other reply today for more.

[sometimewoodworker]

3 hours ago, Will B Good said:

Can I ask......did you ever have any trouble with the loft insulation? Do you think you really benefitted from having it installed?

 

We are having a house built and the 'architect' is dead set against it......claims it is too heavy for the ceiling, that animals will move in to make their homes in it....???

We have roof insulation, PU foam at 25mm and stay cool rolls on the ceilings. 
1) your ”architect” doesn’t know what he is talking about 

2) it is not heavy

3) animals have not setup home any more than without insulation.

4) it makes a big difference to sound and heat insulation.

5) if I were to build again I would install ceiling insulation.

[Will B Good]

22 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

We have roof insulation, PU foam at 25mm and stay cool rolls on the ceilings. 
1) your ”architect” doesn’t know what he is talking about 

2) it is not heavy

3) animals have not setup home any more than without insulation.

4) it makes a big difference to sound and heat insulation.

5) if I were to build again I would install ceiling insulation.

I would agree with you, the thing that annoys me is why is he saying these things????

[Kwasaki]

20 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

I would agree with you, the thing that annoys me is why is he saying these things????

Because he has not been educated in the west and has taken lessons from part-time farmer builder's. 

[unheard]

20 hours ago, AhFarangJa said:

They do not use a felt under the tiles, and with a steel roof the steel contracts and expands in different temperatures, which in turn move the tiles over time.

Not only the steel roof structure, but also the tiles experience the same daily contraction/expansion cycle.

The main reason for why tile roofs require periodic inspections for any cracked or moved out of position tiles.