21 minutes ago, 2009 said:

I weigh it up like this:

 

Cons of vaccination: potential serious side effects or death (though no kid aged 5-11 has suffered that yet)

 

Pros of vaccination: virtually eliminates risk of serious complications of covid infection and death

 

(And the data suggests it is more likely to suffer a bad fate from covid, than vaccine (at any age); a person of any age is better taking their chances with the vaccine; there is risk in vaccination, but there is greater risk in not)

 

Additional benefits: getting back to school, socializing, mental health, education.

 

Another thing is with younger kids, like kindergarten aged, their brains absorb so much so quickly.

 

Losing two years of schooling and socializing to them is like an older child losing double or triple those years. And the sponge-like brain closes off and you can never get that opportunity back.

 

 

Well put. No easy answers. We're in the middle of a once in a lifetime global pandemic. Nobody knows what the future holds.

29 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Misinformation. Put up a link proving this. Should be interesting.

More children have died from covid than the vaccine.

 

That's what I was saying.

 

If you had read the post I was responding to you would know that. 

 

I think you just read the one line I wrote and misunderstood. Look at the dialogue between me and the other poster.

19 minutes ago, 2009 said:

More children have died from covid than the vaccine.

 

That's what I was saying.

 

If you had read the post I was responding to you would know that. 

 

I think you just read the one line I wrote and misunderstood. Look at the dialogue between me and the other poster.

Apologies if I read this wrong.

58 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Very few have died from the vaccines. Many more have died from the virus. Vaccines are our only way out of this mess

You have not answered yet, how old are your kids?

14 minutes ago, 2009 said:

And what else would you like? Shall I fan you with a banana leaf? Handfeed you grapes?

 

It's been very well documented. Look it up yourself.

I've not looked at the rest of the world but there are no deaths in children from covid vaccination in the UK, ever. There have however been 25 deaths of healthy children with no under lying diseases as a direct result of covid

 

https://fullfact.org/health/covid-vaccines-infections-children/

13 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

It always the same answer when they can't prove their lies.

Lol, it is so easy to find. It has literally been in the newspapers recently. You don't look at the news?

 

You didn't hear about the 4 teenagers die in Vietnam after the vaccine? It has happened in many countries, including Thailand.

 

The CDC website has data on heart inflammation caused by the vaccine and how teenage boys have been the ones experiencing this complication most of all.

 

I can tell you where to look, but I ain't spoon-feeding you.

36 minutes ago, 2009 said:

Lol, it is so easy to find. It has literally been in the newspapers recently. You don't look at the news?

 

You didn't hear about the 4 teenagers die in Vietnam after the vaccine? It has happened in many countries, including Thailand.

 

The CDC website has data on heart inflammation caused by the vaccine and how teenage boys have been the ones experiencing this complication most of all.

 

I can tell you where to look, but I ain't spoon-feeding you.

It was very curious that the only deaths reported are from Vietnam but the cause of death has been identified as anaphylactic shock, an allergic reaction that is usually treatable.

 

This is a risk for any vaccine, not just covid vaccines. Most vaccinators make recipients wait 15 minutes after a vaccine in case of anaphylactic shock. The death of a Vietnamese girl reported by vnexpress can't be attributed to any failing of the vaccine itself. I can't find any confirmation of the other deaths which are last reported as being under investigation.

 

"Reported in multiple Vietnamese media including VN Express—yet no mainstream media"

 

https://trialsitenews.com/at-least-three-children-die-120-hospitalized-by-pfizer-biontech-vaccine-in-vietnam/

Abusive, troll and inflammatory posts and replies removed.   

 

My kids and now my grandchildren who are eligible for a vaccine have been vaccinated, although it wasn't without hesitation and discussion.   

23 hours ago, thaitom said:

73,000,000 children in the USA, 700 have died is what i could find.  50,000. have died of other illnesses since the pandemic.

Here’s the link for those who will want to see it: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#SexAndAge

 

727 total deaths under the age of 18 in the United States, and that’s without breaking it down into those with co-morbidities and those without. In other words, your child is probably more likely to die from falling out of a tree or choking on a small toy. 
If parents want to have their kids vaccinated, then by all means they should do it, but if you force vaccinations on this age group who is already at extremely low risk of any serious symptoms, let alone death, there is going to be that one in a million kid who has a bad reaction and dies. What if that one in a million happened to be your own kid? 
 

Until the pharma companies are willing to step up to the plate and take responsibility when something goes wrong, nothing should be forced on anyone. Even then, winning a lawsuit against Pfizer isn’t going to bring your dead child back. 
 

5 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

I've not looked at the rest of the world but there are no deaths in children from covid vaccination in the UK, ever. There have however been 25 deaths of healthy children with no under lying diseases as a direct result of covid

 

https://fullfact.org/health/covid-vaccines-infections-children/

If people are going to base their decision on 25 deaths out of a population of millions, then they probably won’t want to let their kids ride a bike, go swimming, or cross the street either. 

9 minutes ago, Ryan754326 said:

727 total deaths under the age of 18 in the United States

To put it in perspective, almost 800 children from drowning annually in the US.  
 

https://www.safekids.org/press-release/almost-800-kids-drown-each-year-more-half-are-under-age-5

The reasoning behind vaccination of kids is less about protecting them from serious illness as it is from stopping them spreading the disease and incubating new mutations. The vaccines are highly effective at preventing the transmission of the delta variant which is still quite prevalent. There will be new vaccines coming before long which will dot he same for omicron.

4 hours ago, Ryan754326 said:

If people are going to base their decision on 25 deaths out of a population of millions, then they probably won’t want to let their kids ride a bike, go swimming, or cross the street either. 

My response to the poster was his assertion that there were deaths in children due to the covid vaccine, you can clearly see my reply and linked article to that, ie, zero in the UK.

The title of the poll is misleading, "Would you vaccinate" has folks with no young children voting based on what's best for them and not what's best for the kids.

16 hours ago, 2009 said:

Wow, that makes no sense.

 

Even if you were vaccinated you could still bring the virus to the school and spread it.

 

People are really turning on each other. 

 

Not being vaccinated will be like being the black on the bus.

I know what you mean about the black thing. If only blacks had been willing to avail themselves of a widely available vaccine that could have turned them white. 

And, yes, you can still spread it if your vaccinated. But you are less likely to.

8 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

The title of the poll is misleading, "Would you vaccinate" has folks with no young children voting based on what's best for them and not what's best for the kids.

Do you have any use for scientific research at all? What does that say about the relative risk of vaccinating vs. not vaccinating children? Rationally speaking, it's obvious that vaccinating is better for kids than not vaccinating.

if you had read my other comments here you would know I have said numerous times that the vaccine has killed less teenagers than the virus.

 

And that no 5-11 year old has yet died from the vaccine. I have also said that it is better to take your chance with the vaccine than the virus at any age.

 

I have also said that children should get vaccinated to protect themselves.

 

I just don't believe they should be vaccinated to protect others. I disagree with that reasoning.

 

4 hours ago, placeholder said:

And endangering the elderly as well?

That's fine with me.

 

I wouldn't have a single kid die to protect even a million elderly. That isn't right.

 

The elderly can take procautions to protect themselves (their own vaccine protects them, masking up too, and social distancing, complete isolation if they choose). Up to them.

5 minutes ago, 2009 said:

Nope - if you had read my other comments here you would know I have said numerous times that the vaccine has killed less teenagers than the virus.

 

And that no 5-11 year old has yet died from the vaccine. I have also said that it is better to take your chance with the vaccine than the virus at any age.

 

I have also said that children should get vaccinated to protect themselves.

 

I just don't believe they should be vaccinated to protect others. I disagree with that reasoning.

 

That's fine with me.

 

I wouldn't have a single kid die to protect even a million elderly. That isn't right.

 

The elderly can take procautions to protect themselves (their own vaccine protects them, masking up too, and social distancing, complete isolation if they choose). Up to them.

Well, even as a general comment, it's defective. It really depends on the threat level to others. If one child's death meant saving 100 adults would that be acceptable? How about 1000? How about 10,000? 100,000? etc.

The issue you raised is the kind that may animate people who hunger for pointless arguments, but it doesn't have much use in the real world.

5 hours ago, JustAnotherHun said:

 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/21/health/cdc-covid-booster-omicron.html

 

Booster shots are instrumental in protecting against Omicron, new C.D.C. data suggest.

 

Booster shots of the Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna vaccines aren’t just preventing infections with the highly contagious Omicron variant — they’re also keeping infected Americans from ending up in the hospital, according to data published on Friday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

 

The extra doses were most effective against infection and death among Americans aged 50 and older, the data showed.

3 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Well, even as a general comment, it's defective. It really depends on the threat level to others. If one child's death meant saving 100 adults would that be acceptable? How about 1000? How about 10,000? 100,000? etc.

The issue you raised is the kind that may animate people who hunger for pointless arguments, but it doesn't have much use in the real world.

I think I said in my above post that I wouldn't sacrifice 1 kid for a million elders. Didn't you read that?

 

Would you sacrifice your life for bunch of strangers? And why should you? Ain't like they'd do it for you.

23 minutes ago, 2009 said:

Nope - if you had read my other comments here you would know I have said numerous times that the vaccine has killed less teenagers than the virus.

 

And that no 5-11 year old has yet died from the vaccine. I have also said that it is better to take your chance with the vaccine than the virus at any age.

 

I have also said that children should get vaccinated to protect themselves.

 

I just don't believe they should be vaccinated to protect others. I disagree with that reasoning.

 

That's fine with me.

 

I wouldn't have a single kid die to protect even a million elderly. That isn't right.

 

The elderly can take procautions to protect themselves (their own vaccine protects them, masking up too, and social distancing, complete isolation if they choose). Up to them.

More children will die from the disease than the vaccine.

Just now, 2009 said:

I think I said in my above post that I wouldn't sacrifice 1 kid for a million elders. Didn't you read that?

 

Would you sacrifice your life for bunch of strangers? And why should you? Ain't like they'd do it for you.

Well, can you imagine what would happen to a society if such a case came to pass and your rule was followed? In the case of Thailand, to save, say 50 kids, the country would be destroyed.

 

And what makes your comments in this post so ridiculous is that on the one hand you propose a stringent principle that would involve the sacrifice of millions of others but on the other hand, you invoke the rawest, most primitive form of self interest to justify not sacrificing one's own life. Confused much?

4 hours ago, ozimoron said:

More children will die from the disease than the vaccine.

That is what I have said numerous times on this thread.

That is the reason for a kid to get vaccinated. Not to protect the elderly bloke across the street (which is what were are talking about now) or anyone else for that matter.

4 hours ago, placeholder said:

Well, can you imagine what would happen to a society if such a case came to pass and your rule was followed? In the case of Thailand, to save, say 50 kids, the country would be destroyed.

 

And what makes your comments in this post so ridiculous is that on the one hand you propose a stringent principle that would involve the sacrifice of millions of others but on the other hand, you invoke the rawest, most primitive form of self interest to justify not sacrificing one's own life. Confused much?

Almost nobody in this world is gonna put their own head on the chopping block for you, so why should you (or even worse, your child) do it for them?

 

That's the way it is.

 

Parents have the responsibility to protect their children and it's up to you to protect yourself if you want to.

 

There have been plenty of measures afforded to you to protect your own life. ... And you have all the other guidelines to follow to keep you safe.

 

If the at risk are so scared, they can just strictly self isolate. Up to them.

 

But kids have missed years of school to protect others and to try to save the economy. Now, they are getting vaccinated for the same reasons.

4 hours ago, 2009 said:

And that no 5-11 year old has yet died from the vaccine.

How can you be so sure about such statement?

Wondering why the scientists asking for:

Covid-19 vaccines and treatments: we must have raw data, now

BMJ 2022; 376 doi: https://doi.org/10.1136/bmj.o102 (Published 19 January 2022)Cite this as: BMJ 2022;376:o102

https://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o102

3 hours ago, 2009 said:

Almost nobody in this world is gonna put their own head on the chopping block for you, so why should you (or even worse, your child) do it for them?

 

That's the way it is.

 

Parents have the responsibility to protect their children and it's up to you to protect yourself if you want to.

 

There have been plenty of measures afforded to you to protect your own life. ... And you have all the other guidelines to follow to keep you safe.

 

If the at risk are so scared, they can just strictly self isolate. Up to them.

 

But kids have missed years of school to protect others and to try to save the economy. Now, they are getting vaccinated for the same reasons.

You really don't get it, do you? You start out with the apparently high-minded principle that 1 child should not be sacrificed to save a million adults. But then you justify that principle on the basis of self interest. Well, if self-interest is the ruling criterion, they why shouldn't those million imperiled adults demand out of their own self-interest, that children be vaccinated even if it means that 1 additional child would die?

4 hours ago, 2009 said:

Nope - if you had read my other comments here you would know I have said numerous times that the vaccine has killed less teenagers than the virus.

 

And that no 5-11 year old has yet died from the vaccine. I have also said that it is better to take your chance with the vaccine than the virus at any age.

 

I have also said that children should get vaccinated to protect themselves.

 

I just don't believe they should be vaccinated to protect others. I disagree with that reasoning.

 

That's fine with me.

 

I wouldn't have a single kid die to protect even a million elderly. That isn't right.

 

The elderly can take procautions to protect themselves (their own vaccine protects them, masking up too, and social distancing, complete isolation if they choose). Up to them.

Wow.  Through the elderly under the bus.  Terrible.

39 minutes ago, 2009 said:

I think I said in my above post that I wouldn't sacrifice 1 kid for a million elders. Didn't you read that?

 

Would you sacrifice your life for bunch of strangers? And why should you? Ain't like they'd do it for you.

One of those "strangers" could be grandma, grandpa, aunts, uncles, etc.  Or, others they associate with. 

3 hours ago, Saanim said:

How can you be so sure about such statement?

Wondering why the scientists asking for:

Covid-19 vaccines and treatments: we must have raw data, now

BMJ 2022; 376 doi: https://doi.org/10.1136/bmj.o102 (Published 19 January 2022)Cite this as: BMJ 2022;376:o102

https://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o102

That's an opinion piece.  And these guys are part of a group that's been doing this for a long time.  Good for them, but it's still just an opinion piece.

 

They are releasing the data, though slowly.  Hundreds of thousands of pages need to be reviewed and potentially redacted.  Lots of confidential info in there.  Patient info also.