Video: 15 year old revived with CPR at scene of motorcycle collision with earth truck in NE

[webfact]

 

77kaoded Thai caption: Dramatic moment as unconscious 15 year old is revived

 

Rescue workers at the scene of a collision between a six wheel truck and two female students going home from school on a motorcycle managed to save the life of a 15 year old with CPR.

 

Sunisa, 14, riding pillion, said the truck carrying earth pulled out on them as they were going home from their Ban Kaeng, Chaiyaphum school after PE. 

 

She said the low sun in the sky dazzled the rider, her friend Thitima, 15.

 

Thitima was unconscious but was given CPR that restored her pulse after 5 minutes, reported 77kaoded yesterday.

 

Both victims were taken to hospital. 

 

Thirty six year old Samai, the driver of the truck is helping Kaeng Khlor police with their inquiries after the accident on Route 216.

 

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[Gottfrid]

That was the best video I´ve ever seen! Very clear and showing exactly what happened. Anyway, nice to hear that one person smaller died in traffic this year.

[cmarshall]

CPR is not administered to an unconscious person whose heart is therefore still beating, but only to a person whose heart has stopped.

[Tropicalevo]

Well done that responder.

I hope that both girls recover OK.

[ratcatcher]

1 hour ago, cmarshall said:

CPR is not administered to an unconscious person whose heart is therefore still beating, but only to a person whose heart has stopped.

Thitima was unconscious but was given CPR that restored her pulse after 5 minutes, reported 77kaoded yesterday.

 

If she had no pulse when they started CPR, wouldn't that indicate she had no heartbeat?

 

[Enoon]

1 hour ago, ratcatcher said:

Thitima was unconscious but was given CPR that restored her pulse after 5 minutes, reported 77kaoded yesterday.

 

If she had no pulse when they started CPR, wouldn't that indicate she had no heartbeat?

 

I doubt heart failure as a result of falling off a motorcycle, unless the heart was smashed along with the rest of the body.

 

I doubt that the motorcycle was travelling fast enough for that to occur.

 

A weak pulse may be easily missed.......by part timers/amateurs whose main inspiration for their activity is the "merit" they think it earns them.

 

 

Edited February 8, 2022 by Enoon

[Srikcir]

4 hours ago, ratcatcher said:

Thitima was unconscious but was given CPR that restored her pulse after 5 minutes, reported 77kaoded yesterday.

 

If she had no pulse when they started CPR, wouldn't that indicate she had no heartbeat?

 

There is no mention in the article that she had no pulse while unconscious. You start with a conclusion to create a cause.

[hotchilli]

They did what they thought was necessary with a good outcome...

maybe the pulse was very weak possibly due to shock/impact

and using CPR they restored a healthy circulation which in turn increased the heart strength/pulse rate?

 

[Moonlover]

8 hours ago, cmarshall said:

CPR is not administered to an unconscious person whose heart is therefore still beating, but only to a person whose heart has stopped.

Yes that's true. It's just as well these trained 1st responders understood that isn't it. Thanks to them a life has been saved.

 

Kudus to them.

[cmarshall]

11 hours ago, Moonlover said:

Yes that's true. It's just as well these trained 1st responders understood that isn't it. Thanks to them a life has been saved.

 

Kudus to them.

If the victim's heart was still beating then performing CPR should not be done, because it's dangerous.  In this case the victim survived despite the efforts of the first responders, which could have killed him.

[cmarshall]

17 hours ago, ratcatcher said:

Thitima was unconscious but was given CPR that restored her pulse after 5 minutes, reported 77kaoded yesterday.

 

If she had no pulse when they started CPR, wouldn't that indicate she had no heartbeat?

 

It only indicates that the obviously confused writer thought so.  CPR is only done on a dead person and it almost never starts the heart up again.  I had CPR instruction from someone who had been an EMT for many years.  She had performed CPR many times, but it never succeeded in restarting the heart.

[hotchilli]

17 hours ago, Enoon said:

A weak pulse may be easily missed.......by part timers/amateurs whose main inspiration for their activity is the "merit" they think it earns them.

A rather sad comment to make... they are trained first responders who do a sterling job.

[Road Warrior]

daily m/bike accidents / thought 16 yrs was the legal to get license and use a m/bike ?????

[Moonlover]

6 hours ago, cmarshall said:

If the victim's heart was still beating then performing CPR should not be done, because it's dangerous.  In this case the victim survived despite the efforts of the first responders, which could have killed him.

Do please explain what possible evidence you have that the victim's heart was beating before

they commenced CPR. They are trained 1st responders and I'm sure that they know what signs to look for before taking such action.

 

On 2/8/2022 at 8:16 AM, webfact said:

Thitima was unconscious but was given CPR that restored her pulse after 5 minutes, reported 77kaoded yesterday.

 Restored her pulse after 5 minutes!!!

[Mr Meeseeks]

If you watch the video in the article, the person performing CPR does not have a clue what they are doing.

 

They certainly are not a trained first responder, that is immediately clear. 

 

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

15 hours ago, cmarshall said:

It only indicates that the obviously confused writer thought so.  CPR is only done on a dead person and it almost never starts the heart up again.  I had CPR instruction from someone who had been an EMT for many years.  She had performed CPR many times, but it never succeeded in restarting the heart.

Correct, normally it is an AED that is required to restart the heart.

 

Typically, for basic CPR, rescue breaths put air into the lungs and the chest compressions act to circulate the blood to the brain. Without these actions, the brain will be completely deprived of oxygen and die within 3-4 minutes.

 

If you watch the video in the article, the person is clearly not trained, and is furiously pumping the chest, using incorrect and ineffective technique and far too fast to effect the proper measured response to keep the casualty alive.

[cmarshall]

18 hours ago, Moonlover said:

Do please explain what possible evidence you have that the victim's heart was beating before

they commenced CPR. They are trained 1st responders and I'm sure that they know what signs to look for before taking such action.

 

 Restored her pulse after 5 minutes!!!

The report contradicts itself, so we cannot know what really happened.  It said the victim was unconscious, which means alive, heart still beating, but unresponsive.  If that is indeed the case, then CPR is definitely contraindicated.  On the other hand the report also claimed that her pulse was restored after five minutes.  That would imply that she had no pulse and was therefore dead.  That is when you should attempt CPR.

 

The reason that I believe the reality was that she always had a pulse is that reviving a dead person via CPR is extremely rare.  People have whole careers as EMTs without ever witnessing a revival of a dead person.  

[jacko45k]

20 hours ago, Road Warrior said:

daily m/bike accidents / thought 16 yrs was the legal to get license and use a m/bike ?????

15 I believe..... but take a look at the school run to see  reality. 

[Moonlover]

2 hours ago, cmarshall said:

The report contradicts itself, so we cannot know what really happened.  It said the victim was unconscious, which means alive, heart still beating, but unresponsive.  If that is indeed the case, then CPR is definitely contraindicated.  On the other hand the report also claimed that her pulse was restored after five minutes.  That would imply that she had no pulse and was therefore dead.  That is when you should attempt CPR.

 

The reason that I believe the reality was that she always had a pulse is that reviving a dead person via CPR is extremely rare.  People have whole careers as EMTs without ever witnessing a revival of a dead person.  

How can you assert that the report contradicts itself? If the heart stops beating, unconscious follows No blood to the brain would induce that and very quickly too, less than a minute. Heart failure in a traumatic accident is not unusual, even a heavy punch can cause it.

 

Trained 1st responders go through the standard A.B.C. routine Airways, Breathing, Circulation. On the last course I took a few years back if you find that there's no pulse you move straight to chest compressions. That is now No 1 priority.

 

The survival rate following CPR is about 12% and, of course we don't know whether she did actually survive, so I will concede that point, however in my judgement, as a trained 1st responder, the rescuer's action was exemplary and I fail to understand why you're being so mealy mouthed about it.

[cmarshall]

32 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

How can you assert that the report contradicts itself? If the heart stops beating, unconscious follows No blood to the brain would induce that and very quickly too, less than a minute. Heart failure in a traumatic accident is not unusual, even a heavy punch can cause it.

That's just a ridiculous statement, isn't it?  A dead person is dead, not unconscious.  "Unconscious" implies the person is still alive, i.e. with a pulse, but not responsive.  While it's true that dead people are not responsive either, that does not mean that they are unconscious.  They are dead.

 

In this context a dead person is one without a pulse, i.e. the heart has stopped beating.  If you do your own search you will find that it is not recommended to do CPR on a person with a pulse, although the risk of injury resulting to the person from doing so is currently downplayed by comparison with past advice.  

 

I don't find believable statistics on the success rate of CPR.  Most discussions are just recommendations that CPR will always improve the chances of survival, which may be true, but it's hard to tease out a convincing case for just how effective CPR. 

 

It reminds me of all the discussions that rail against drunken driving which emphasize how much being drunk increases your chance of having an accident.  That's true, but they basically never report just what your risk of an accident actually is if you drive home tonight, just this one time, drunk.  But someone did calculate it.  Turns out to be 0.001%.  Shocking, isn't it?

 

I am in favor of CPR and opposed to drunken driving, but I don't think those values excuse misleading statistics.  

[bbko]

I'm a retired paramedic and there's been times where I pulled up on emergencies where a bystander was doing CPR when it wasn't needed.  Finding a pulse on a normal conscious person can be difficult to the untrained, finding one on the street in all the chaos of an accident could be extremely difficult for a poorly trained medic.  I don't know the particulars of this accident, but IF the girl lost her heartbeat due to trauma, that's one hell of a recovery, I've never had a traumatic cardiac arrest come back, also I'm surprised the ambulance didn't even have an AED or ambu bag/oxygen.

[Moonlover]

1 hour ago, cmarshall said:

That's just a ridiculous statement, isn't it?  A dead person is dead, not unconscious.  "Unconscious" implies the person is still alive, i.e. with a pulse, but not responsive. 

No it is not a ridiculous statement at all. Because in eyes of the law of most jurisdictions , a person is not dead until a doctor certifies them so. That is why 1st responders are required to carry on with CPR until a doctor says otherwise or they are no longer able to do so. On the courses I've been on, 10 minutes was the recommended minimum.

 

I say again, Kudus to the rescuers for their effort and that is the last I have to say on this topic.

[cmarshall]

5 hours ago, Moonlover said:

No it is not a ridiculous statement at all. Because in eyes of the law of most jurisdictions , a person is not dead until a doctor certifies them so. That is why 1st responders are required to carry on with CPR until a doctor says otherwise or they are no longer able to do so. On the courses I've been on, 10 minutes was the recommended minimum.

 

I say again, Kudus to the rescuers for their effort and that is the last I have to say on this topic.

You are getting ever more ridiculous still.  Yes, there is some difference between a person who is dead and a person who has actually been pronounced dead by the medical authorities.  But that is not to say that a person whose heart has stopped beating and who is therefore dead, but who has not yet been pronounced dead by the medical authorities is merely "unconscious."  He is dead with a small chance of being revived.

 

How do someone get this confused in what I assume is his native language?

[itsari]

On 2/8/2022 at 8:33 AM, Gottfrid said:

That was the best video I´ve ever seen! Very clear and showing exactly what happened. Anyway, nice to hear that one person smaller died in traffic this year.

One person less 

[Nojohndoe]

I have a friend who as a result of a car accident was pronounced dead (no pulse or breathing detected) by attending emergency ambulance staff. Other survivors  were sent off  by ambulance and he was simply dragged clear of potential fire in the wreckage and  dumped on  cold wet  grass (night time). The stimulus of the cold impact started him up again and he regained conciousness and moved. Another ambulance was  urgently  called and while they waited the Police scooped his guts  back in because he was literally  spilling them on the ground ! So was he  ever actually dead? He was definitely unconscious but obviously not dead. Dead is when there is no viable independent capacity to be alive. CPR can bring people out of the limbo that exists for a time in accident situations.

[Nojohndoe]

On 2/8/2022 at 8:49 AM, cmarshall said:

CPR is not administered to an unconscious person whose heart is therefore still beating, but only to a person whose heart has stopped.

If your heart is not beating  you will become unconscious quite quickly.

[Gottfrid]

3 hours ago, itsari said:

One person less 

Oh, sorry. Was that your application to the grammar police?

[itsari]

7 minutes ago, Gottfrid said:

Oh, sorry. Was that your application to the grammar police?

No , more for your education . I am not a grass

[Gottfrid]

3 minutes ago, itsari said:

No , more for your education . I am not a grass

Don´t sound like one then

Edited February 10, 2022 by Gottfrid

[itsari]

I am beyond reproach