Big Decision: Which Asian country is ideal for foreign retirees?

[Hummin]

31 minutes ago, 473geo said:

Lets see

Private education - my kids will learn to read and write, do calculations, then my money will be spent on training for a suitable trade/profession which will allow them to live comfortably in Thailand.

Health insurance, kids are Thai, they will be fine.

Decent safe place to live, with me and my wife, where there is room if they wish to build their own home.

Travel the world for inspiration, over rated in my opinion, they have all required in Thailand for a decent life.

I know my kids will be better off in Norway, and then choose where they want to study, or what they they want to do when finished High school, and not limited in any way. Even go university in Thailand if they want, do the sport or art they want, but still have western logic and understanding. What I miss most in Thailand is pure logic when it comes to about everything.

 

Anyway, that's what I'm thinking about it.

[rudi49jr]

I like Thailand a lot and I will keep visiting in the winter for three months, but most of my retirement will be spent in the south of France. I am a EU citizen, so no hassle with visas or whatever. I speak French, I like the country, love the wine, the weather is lovely most of the time, there’s plenty to see and do. And the Mediterranean Sea is close by, in case I want to spend a couple of hours at a beautiful beach. My Thai wife loves it there as well. 

[Burma Bill]

On 2/14/2022 at 1:32 AM, webfact said:

One major benefit of retiring in Cambodia is the ability and ease to obtain long-term visas.

For reference in today's Cambodian media (15th February 2022):-

 

"Several global surveys of late have shown Cambodia as a holiday and expat destination running neck and neck with Thailand in the popularity stakes. Leaving aside the general pros and cons of life and leisure, the entry rules for Cambodia are certainly a good deal simpler."

 

https://www.khmertimeskh.com/501025269/cambodias-foreign-travellers-entry-requirements-less-complex-than-thailands/

[gejohesch]

17 hours ago, BayArea said:

I will say one last thing on Thai women,  they're not getting smaller from what I've seen these days. ????

That's true, I will not deny it. Lots of women are stocky. The fact they tend to be short does not help! Remains the fact that the proportion of good looking ones is rather high. But obviously, it is "whatever floats your boat"! ????

[gejohesch]

17 hours ago, BayArea said:

Mexican food can seemed similar and repetitive no doubt., but it is delicious comfort food at its finest.  I realize beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I don't want to force or debate on attractiveness.  I will say one last thing on Thai women,  they're not getting smaller from what I've seen these days. ????

About food : although Thai food can be delicious, what I see in the street is often mediocre, and what I see my wife's family cook, well sometimes I don't feel like eating at all ????.

Edited February 15, 2022 by gejohesch

[jacko45k]

5 hours ago, Dustdevil said:

NO--a non-Muslim of either gender marrying a Muslim must normally convert to Islam both by government law and family honor. I know this from 19 years in the Middle East and two years in Malaysia.

Muslim men can marry Christian or Jewish women (people of the book) ..... Islamic Law (Shariah) is probably more pertinent. I do not consider odd family rules of course. 

 

[Millcx]

On 2/14/2022 at 12:41 AM, Dan747 said:

 I personally feel Thailand should be off the list with it's Covid-19 Entry Insurance Scams, TM-30 reporting, and all. It seems to be getting more expensive by the year as the TAT comes up with a New Tourist Schemes to their advantage. I am surprised Tourists want to come to Thailand with all the "B$." I believe it would be much more beneficial to go somewhere else. Just my thoughts.

And intelligent thoughts they are “;0)

[Sparktrader]

21 hours ago, JustAnotherHun said:

If you wanted but did not, you've wasted your life.

Not working is boring

[Jingthing]

This is cynical of me, but comparing Cambodia to Thailand, the reason Cambodia is so relatively visa easy is because it's attraction is significantly LESS THAN Thailand. As Cambodia improves, they will make things harder. That always happens. Thailand on the other hand dramatically over values their attractions and their onerous visa system is over the top relative to what they've got. 

[Hummin]

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

This is cynical of me, but comparing Cambodia to Thailand, the reason Cambodia is so relatively visa easy is because it's attraction is significantly LESS THAN Thailand. As Cambodia improves, they will make things harder. That always happens. Thailand on the other hand dramatically over values their attractions and their onerous visa system is over the top relative to what they've got. 

Cambodia and Laos will be Chineese Spain for families and Thailand  for single Chinese men! No high hopes for Cambodia or Laos

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Hummin said:

Cambodia and Laos will be Chineese Spain for families and Thailand  for single Chinese men! No high hopes for Cambodia or Laos

Chinese Spain sounds kind of intriguing. 

[BayArea]

On 2/13/2022 at 9:29 PM, spidermike007 said:

Been to Vietnam several times, over a 20 year period. Both the north and the South. Generally found the people to be heavy hearted, not particularly friendly, a bit like cold fish, and not playful like the Thais. 

 

Been there as a single man and with my Thai woman. They were even worse with my woman. Rude and cold. No thanks. 

that's too bad Mike. Viet Nam is known far and wide from seasoned travelers as a place where the local population are typically very welcoming and eager to meet and engaged with foreigners.  You say they are heavy hearted, isn't a bit much painting the country with a broad brush?? after all, VN went through two major wars with millions of family members and friends dead from both conflicts. 

[BayArea]

On 2/13/2022 at 9:44 PM, Jingthing said:

Hearing their language raises my blood pressure.

Liking a country or not is often a matter of temperament.

 

right..as if your average Thai sounds so pleasant in every day conversation. my Thai wife when freely conversing with her family or friends sound like they're about to see who can raise their voices the loudest!

[BayArea]

On 2/14/2022 at 2:08 AM, Capella said:

Agreed Philippine food is probably the worst in the region. Most of it is vile. It's why you see hardly any Philippine restaurants anywhere else. 

 I had a Filipino co worker tell me Filipino food is like many other SE Asian cuisine without the flavors or originality, but contained more saturated fat and sugar. He said the food is mostly similar to Chinese with a just different name. ????

Edited February 15, 2022 by BayArea

[Jingthing]

 

2 hours ago, BayArea said:

right..as if your average Thai sounds so pleasant in every day conversation. my Thai wife when freely conversing with her family or friends sound like they're about to see who can raise their voices the loudest!

To me Thai is neutral. Doesn't bother me, doesn't annoy me. European Portuguese annoys me in a similar way to Vietnamese and I've got issues with German too. Brazilian Portuguese and Argentinian Spanish on the other hand, I find charming. Like I said, temperament is a factor.

[gejohesch]

12 hours ago, Jingthing said:

This is cynical of me, but comparing Cambodia to Thailand, the reason Cambodia is so relatively visa easy is because it's attraction is significantly LESS THAN Thailand. As Cambodia improves, they will make things harder. That always happens. Thailand on the other hand dramatically over values their attractions and their onerous visa system is over the top relative to what they've got. 

Attractiveness and easy / difficult regulations for entry and stay : what you say sounds logical.

Thailand overestimation of its attractiveness : I'm one of many who think that what you say is true. 

[gejohesch]

On 2/14/2022 at 5:29 AM, spidermike007 said:

Been to Vietnam several times, over a 20 year period. Both the north and the South. Generally found the people to be heavy hearted, not particularly friendly, a bit like cold fish, and not playful like the Thais. 

 

Been there as a single man and with my Thai woman. They were even worse with my woman. Rude and cold. No thanks. 

Been 3 times, OK that's not a lot, but I had pretty much the same experience. Last time was in the south and I was with my Thai wife, the hard looks we got from so many people! ???? That never happens in Thailand.

When we visited the place close to Cambodia where they have the underground tunnels of the VN war (forgot the name of the place), I remember one of the women employees in one of the sites being absolutely "hard and rude" towards us - exactly. And we are perfectly well behaved people ourselves so we really could not understand why. Other thing, the tour bus we had taken from HMC stopped for lunch  at a restaurant : the food was mediocre at best.

I think at some stage people should be grown up enough to start looking beyond whatever historical griefs they might have, and many VN people seem to me that they still have a big chip on their shoulder.

[gejohesch]

18 hours ago, rudi49jr said:

I like Thailand a lot and I will keep visiting in the winter for three months, but most of my retirement will be spent in the south of France. I am a EU citizen, so no hassle with visas or whatever. I speak French, I like the country, love the wine, the weather is lovely most of the time, there’s plenty to see and do. And the Mediterranean Sea is close by, in case I want to spend a couple of hours at a beautiful beach. My Thai wife loves it there as well. 

The south of France, as you say. Lots of very nice mountain areas to visit too. Huge cultural heritage (a lot more than Thailand, immensely more than the Philippines). Italy, Spain nearby with so much to see and experience. My Thai wife loves it too (been many times).

The "world famous" arrogance of the French people? I think it's so much of a cliché + generalisation + exaggeration

Edited February 16, 2022 by gejohesch

[spidermike007]

1 hour ago, gejohesch said:

Been 3 times, OK that's not a lot, but I had pretty much the same experience. Last time was in the south and I was with my Thai wife, the hard looks we got from so many people! ???? That never happens in Thailand.

When we visited the place close to Cambodia where they have the underground tunnels of the VN war (forgot the name of the place), I remember one of the women employees in one of the sites being absolutely "hard and rude" towards us - exactly. And we are perfectly well behaved people ourselves so we really could not understand why. Other thing, the tour bus we had taken from HMC stopped for lunch  at a restaurant : the food was mediocre at best.

I think at some stage people should be grown up enough to start looking beyond whatever historical griefs they might have, and many VN people seem to me that they still have a big chip on their shoulder.

Vietnam has a very tortured history, and many of the people seem to carry that pain on their collective shoulders. Most are not particularly pleasant, from my experience. I like the Cambodian and Thai people much more. Even Malaysians are far more pleasant. I have been to Vietnam several times, and I never need to go back. My Thai wife feels the same way. One guy in a ticket office was so dismissive and rude to us, I nearly decked him. My wife had to hold me back. I did scream at the top of my lungs at him, and it finally got his attention. 

[Woke to Sounds of Horking]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Vietnam has a very tortured history, and many of the people seem to carry that pain on their collective shoulders. Most are not particularly pleasant, from my experience. I like the Cambodian and Thai people much more. Even Malaysians are far more pleasant. I have been to Vietnam several times, and I never need to go back. My Thai wife feels the same way. One guy in a ticket office was so dismissive and rude to us, I nearly decked him. My wife had to hold me back. I did scream at the top of my lungs at him, and it finally got his attention. 

Can't agree.  So subjective isn't it.  Lived there 4 yrs, traveled in country frequently.  Prefer Saigon to Hanoi but most of all prefer Danang. Rarely met a local douchebag or anyone holding grudges from war time - though I did meet a couple codgers who DEFINITELY did not like Americans. Then again, met some Hanoians who didn't like Saigonese and vice versa and / or their gov't. Also met a few Vietnamese who really, really disliked China.

[TropicalGuy]

My summary response:

 

Thailand: Great/ Yes

Malaysia: Dull, Religious/ No

Vietnam: Communist / No

Cambodia: Lawless, pedos / No 

Sri Lanka / Phil / Indo: chaotic <deleted>holes/ No 

[rudi49jr]

6 hours ago, gejohesch said:

The south of France, as you say. Lots of very nice mountain areas to visit too. Huge cultural heritage (a lot more than Thailand, immensely more than the Philippines). Italy, Spain nearby with so much to see and experience. My Thai wife loves it too (been many times).

The "world famous" arrogance of the French people? I think it's so much of a cliché + generalisation + exaggeration

Agreed. I plan on retiring near the town if Perpignan, close to the Spanish border. Millennia of history in that area, the Pyrenees mountains, beautiful scenery, nice climate, mix of Catalan and French, been going there since the late 80’s and loved it. And my experience is that the French are generally very friendly and helpful people, especially when you make the effort to speak to them in their own language.

[Burma Bill]

36 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

Cambodia: Lawless, pedos / No

We are all entitled to our opinion but with respect the above is untrue! I live in Siem Reap and I can assure you the local Provincial Police and the National Gendarmerie maintain the law. Currently there are major operations into drug distribution and dealing, illegal on-line gambling, scams and fraud, also human trafficking. As regards pedophiles, yes, but also in Thailand (school directors and teachers being examples) and many other countries! It will be interesting to read other replies to your "summary response".

Personally (these days not 20 years ago when I retired to LOS):-

Thailand: Bureaucratic, complex visa process, pro-military, Medieval "Temperance" establishment - NO 

Edited February 16, 2022 by Burma Bill
additional information

[gejohesch]

10 minutes ago, rudi49jr said:

Agreed. I plan on retiring near the town if Perpignan, close to the Spanish border. Millennia of history in that area, the Pyrenees mountains, beautiful scenery, nice climate, mix of Catalan and French, been going there since the late 80’s and loved it. And my experience is that the French are generally very friendly and helpful people, especially when you make the effort to speak to them in their own language.

Good for you. It sounds like a good area indeed. Proximity to Spain a definite positive.

 

About the infamous arrogance of the French, yes, they can be off-putting. But:

1) the French themselves know how rude some of their compatriots can be. That's not necessarily anything to do with someone being French or a foreigner.

2) what is taken as arrogance is often just the French being direct and speaking their minds out. That's sometimes better than people hiding what they think.

3) if the French can be a little bit too full of their national importance, lots of other nationalities have similar defaults. It's a bit like "I see the straw in your eye, but I don't see the beam in my own eye"! Chauvinism is definitely not a French exclusive trait.

 

Arrogance, being rude etc. It varies so much from one person to the other. Take the Germans, also often said to be some of the rudest people towards foreigners. My own experience is that Germans are usually very courteous.

 

So much for sweeping statements.

[spidermike007]

4 hours ago, Woke to Sounds of Horking said:

Can't agree.  So subjective isn't it.  Lived there 4 yrs, traveled in country frequently.  Prefer Saigon to Hanoi but most of all prefer Danang. Rarely met a local douchebag or anyone holding grudges from war time - though I did meet a couple codgers who DEFINITELY did not like Americans. Then again, met some Hanoians who didn't like Saigonese and vice versa and / or their gov't. Also met a few Vietnamese who really, really disliked China.

The Vietnamese are not the only ones who dislike China and the commie party.The CCP and Xi are doing a great job of building worldwide hatred. With their tactics, that will likely only accelerate over time. 

[WinterGael]

On 2/14/2022 at 9:54 AM, Guderian said:

I've been mulling this over lately as the pandemic draws to a close. Do I want to stay in Thailand forever more or would it be better to move elsewhere? I'm happy in Thailand and have been living here for almost 18 years now, but the lack of an official retirement programme worries me more and more as I get older. Specifically, I'm concerned that they might suddenly come up with, for example, full medical insurance requirements in order to extend a Non-Imm O visa for a year, as has happened with the OA visas. If you have any kind of a complicated medical history, even if you're 100% fit today, the insurance policy exclusions often mean that it's not possible to get full cover and, indeed, it can be unclear what exactly is covered by it until you need to make a claim against the policy and it's denied. And then, once you get into your late 70's or 80's, the annual premium can become similar to buying a small car every year, simply impractical. It's not only medical insurance, of course, they could change the rules in a number of other ways that might make life much more expensive and less pleasant here. At least in Malaysia they have a formal retirement programme, though the financial requirements might be too much for a lot of people, so you have certain legal rights which you do not have in Thailand, and never will have as far as I can see. All most of us have here is the right to beg for a new extension every year, which is usually granted without any issues, but my concern is that this may not always remain the case. As you get older, good quality hospitals and medical care are a must, which basically reduces the candidates to just Thailand, Malaysia and Singapore. Forget the island state, it's not a good choice for most, and to my mind it leaves Thailand and Malaysia looking similar on most fronts that matter, but Malaysia offers greater security in your retirement (if you can afford it) with its formal programme for retirees.

They are talking of upping required medical to 3 million baht and or having incredible assets for self insuring.  On top of that, they are also thinking of upping the retirement funds from approximately 23,000$US to 45,000$US.  As I said, being marriage has cheaper costs, but if that goes south, I will likely leave as already retirement requirements here are not cheap.

[TropicalGuy]

3 hours ago, Burma Bill said:

We are all entitled to our opinion but with respect the above is untrue! I live in Siem Reap and I can assure you the local Provincial Police and the National Gendarmerie maintain the law. Currently there are major operations into drug distribution and dealing, illegal on-line gambling, scams and fraud, also human trafficking. As regards pedophiles, yes, but also in Thailand (school directors and teachers being examples) and many other countries! It will be interesting to read other replies to your "summary response".

Personally (these days not 20 years ago when I retired to LOS):-

Thailand: Bureaucratic, complex visa process, pro-military, Medieval "Temperance" establishment - NO 

Thai politics -Govt -culture do not concern me. Safe - Warm -Cheap - Open- Friendly- Lifestyle - Beach.

Those are my criteria. Most of other those “recommended” dung holes don’t get past no. 1 criteria SAFE.Siem Reap has a large child sex industry like the whole country plus all that other grim activity you mentioned.

[TropicalGuy]

10 minutes ago, WinterGael said:

They are talking of upping required medical to 3 million baht and or having incredible assets for self insuring.  On top of that, they are also thinking of upping the retirement funds from approximately 23,000$US to 45,000$US.  As I said, being marriage has cheaper costs, but if that goes south, I will likely leave as already retirement requirements here are not cheap.

“ talking, thinking, if” don’t count for anything here. Only what is Done.

[TropicalGuy]

3 hours ago, gejohesch said:

Good for you. It sounds like a good area indeed. Proximity to Spain a definite positive.

 

About the infamous arrogance of the French, yes, they can be off-putting. But:

1) the French themselves know how rude some of their compatriots can be. That's not necessarily anything to do with someone being French or a foreigner.

2) what is taken as arrogance is often just the French being direct and speaking their minds out. That's sometimes better than people hiding what they think.

3) if the French can be a little bit too full of their national importance, lots of other nationalities have similar defaults. It's a bit like "I see the straw in your eye, but I don't see the beam in my own eye"! Chauvinism is definitely not a French exclusive trait.

 

Arrogance, being rude etc. It varies so much from one person to the other. Take the Germans, also often said to be some of the rudest people towards foreigners. My own experience is that Germans are usually very courteous.

 

So much for sweeping statements.

Spain & Italy are unbeatable for culture, history, weather, sport , life, work. France & UK too…..

[TropicalGuy]

On 2/15/2022 at 12:30 PM, 473geo said:

Lets see

Private education - my kids will learn to read and write, do calculations, then my money will be spent on training for a suitable trade/profession which will allow them to live comfortably in Thailand.

Health insurance, kids are Thai, they will be fine.

Decent safe place to live, with me and my wife, where there is room if they wish to build their own home.

Travel the world for inspiration, over rated in my opinion, they have all required in Thailand for a decent life.

Agreed. Except Culture/ Sport / History / Innovation / Freedom all a very pale shadow of the West. Not why I’m here with Thai lady & kid though.