Building a new house in Isaan

[HighPriority]

50 minutes ago, Encid said:

Thank you.

 

I have worked for a couple of years in Darwin and also a few in Nhulunbuy so I know what top end weather is like... I was working in Darwin during Cyclone Marcus in 2018... unbelievable that despite all the damage nobody was killed.

 

 

Yes, Isaan weather can be very similar to the NT... but I think that the humidity here in Thailand is much higher and lasts longer.

The damage from that little storm was crazy !

As for your thoughts on humidity, you must be overdue for a visit… ???????? though the dry is trying to kick in. 

[Muhendis]

33 minutes ago, couchpotato said:

A type of nylon. Can get in various thickness. Very strong and I believe not a problem with the sun.

What mesh size and is it totally maintenance free?

[HighPriority]

44 minutes ago, Encid said:

Great idea! 

 

What sort of mesh did you use?

Metal? Plastic?

 

I think ???? this is what I used… I said above it was stainless steel, this stuff is alloy. 
 

https://www.bunnings.com.au/gumleaf-6m-1200mm-aluminium-screwless-pinhole-gutter-guard-5-pack_p3040695

[couchpotato]

31 minutes ago, Muhendis said:

What mesh size and is it totally maintenance free?

I going to say maintenance free, but it is 4 stories high, so can't get up to see, but might use my drone.  You don't something rigid, otherwise the birds can just stand on it, so my nylon mesh is flexible and not too small spacing. But it works.

Sorry best I've got for you.

PS..look at Watsadu

[Encid]

17 hours ago, couchpotato said:

PS..look at Watsadu

ThaiWatsadu have several HDPE mesh types available... all supposedly UV resistant, but I don't know what their real service life would be like.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[couchpotato]

2 minutes ago, Encid said:

ThaiWatsadu have several HDPE mesh types available... all supposedly UV resistant, but I don't know what their real service life would be like.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not the same stuff---That would be useless for gutters.

I might have a leftover piece of my mesh somewhere, if I find it, I'll post a pic.

 

[Encid]

18 hours ago, HighPriority said:

As for your thoughts on humidity, you must be overdue for a visit… ???????? though the dry is trying to kick in. 

I heard that the NT monsoonal wet season 2022-2023 rainfall was above average for most of the Top End, so you must be looking forward to the barra fishing during the runoff.

 

Good luck!

 

And yes, I do miss the Darwin lifestyle (and seasons)... it is a unique way of life in Australia.

 

Where else in the world can you legally drive a car on the public roads with an open tinny or stubby (beer) in your hand? 

 

[HighPriority]

5 hours ago, Encid said:

I heard that the NT monsoonal wet season 2022-2023 rainfall was above average for most of the Top End, so you must be looking forward to the barra fishing during the runoff.

 

Good luck!

 

And yes, I do miss the Darwin lifestyle (and seasons)... it is a unique way of life in Australia.

 

Where else in the world can you legally drive a car on the public roads with an open tinny or stubby (beer) in your hand? 

 

????????????

[sometimewoodworker]

On 5/3/2023 at 3:37 PM, Encid said:

The BlueScope metal steel roof will be 5cm thick PU foam coated, with a PVC foil/metal sheet facing underneath.

Have you had a chance to view a roof in place? & what is the per meter price?

SWMBO has decided that the economy roof material she bought and had fitted a couple of years ago is failing so badly it needs replacing & we have lucked into some excess funds so we can do the job.

[Encid]

3 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Have you had a chance to view a roof in place?

Not yet.

The actual roof is still a way off, as the roof structure needs to completed first, then all the walls (both inside and out) will be rendered before the roof goes up.

We did specify BlueScope "sandwich roof" which has 50mm of PU foam and a metal backing sheet, similar to this:

 

[n00dle]

On 2/19/2022 at 5:29 PM, John Bird said:

You're a brave man. I hope you're frustration-resistant as well. 

Why? I built a house on one of the isands 10+ years ago, and to this day it is one of the most satifying projects i have ever undertaken. It continue to produce both revenue and happiness.

it can, but does not need to be a miserable experince if you have your eyes open and take pesonal responsiblity.

[Freddy42OZ]

Met a really nice Thai guy who does Project Management for home builds.  

If anyone is looking for help with their build maybe contact him

His website is https://website4290639.nicepage.io/Benfit-Management.html  

 

[dayo202]

2 hours ago, Freddy42OZ said:

Met a really nice Thai guy who does Project Management for home builds.  

If anyone is looking for help with their build maybe contact him

His website is https://website4290639.nicepage.io/Benfit-Management.html  

 

I'm in the process of designing a small single storey 2 bedroom house in the northern town of Pai.

I will ask the wife to give the guy a call, I'm looking for someone to project manager the build.

[sometimewoodworker]

On 5/11/2023 at 2:41 PM, Encid said:

Not yet.

The actual roof is still a way off, as the roof structure needs to completed first, then all the walls (both inside and out) will be rendered before the roof goes up.

We did specify BlueScope "sandwich roof" which has 50mm of PU foam and a metal backing sheet, similar to this:

 

I did make a post that somehow disappeared 

So this a repeat AFIR of the post.

This is just a FWIW. We have received our order of the same material that you are going to use.

my observations and no particular order; the metal of the roof covering is very thin compared to the standard BlueScopeSteel roof. The BlueScopeSteel colorbond roof is 0.5 mm is 0.25 mm. This does not mean that it is a bad roof, but it certainly isn’t as robust as a colorbond roof. Our supplier has stated that there is no guarantee this compares to the colorbond 30 year guarantee, I’ll be in Thailand if the company that sells your roof stock trading, then there goes your guarantee, but the fact that they offer a 30 year guarantee suggest that the colorbond material itself is excellent.

 

We are currently fitting the first of seven roof areas, and the observation is that the colour is easy to scratch, so much so that we are going to be buying a colour match cyan paint for touching up the roof.

While delivering the first batch of roofing material, one of the panels was dropped,  denting it because the metal is quite thin. The delivery driver and his mate were able to repair the roof to an extent that it was acceptable, and since it’s going to be used in the outside kitchen, looking perfect is not really that important, the suppliers offered to replace the roof sheet, we declined, and they have given us a 1% discount on our total order. I think quite possibly because of the delicate nature of the colour coating sheets have been delivered with quite thick plastic sheeting protecting them, so this is a bonus for the supplying company.

 

The fact that the metal is so thin has one unexpected benefit, that is with a centre punch it’s very easy to go through the metal making an excellent guide for the rather long screws that are needed to hold it down.

incidentally, also supply the same material with a metallicised plastic coating on the base, if we were going to use this in an area where there was a ceiling, we would almost certainly have opted for that as the coating is quite substantial, and if there are no birds or anything else like that attacking it. I’m sure it will do the job as well as the metal underside coating. There is also quite a significant saving in price. If you get them the metal is plastic or plastic coated metal rather than the actual metal itself. 

 

This is the metal base coating

 

and this is the other style available 

Edited May 21, 2023 by sometimewoodworker

[MAF666]

How will finish the guttering side edge of the panels?

[Encid]

Just now, MAF666 said:

How will finish the guttering side edge of the panels?

I discussed this with my builder on site yesterday... he will be using plain unpainted galvanized metal sheet cut to match the profile of the white coloured BlueScope "sandwich roof" with overlapping tabs that can be rivetted to the roof steel and sealed with silicone so birds (and other rodents) cannot make their way inside the PU foam.

 

The "sandwich roof" itself is to be fastened to the supporting steel members by use of the self-drilling "tek screws" with a fitted neoprene washer as shown in STWW's post above. These screws are self-tapping and self-drilling, which means they feature a drill tip with a small carving piece so that there is no need for pre-drilling the supporting steel member.

 

However, care must be taken not to over-tighten the tek screws, as this can lead to head stripping/damage and will result in a dent forming in the roof sheeting. A dent can allow water to pool, which could lead to a leaking roof.

 

Many Thai builders like to use impact drills for convenience and speed instead of pre-drilling a pilot hole in the roof sheeting before using them... however this is NOT recommended by screw manufacturers as the screws are not designed to withhold the force of impact drills.

 

The only other thing to be careful about using tek screws (as far as I can recall) is to be sure to drive them into the supporting steel as slowly as possible for proper vertical alignment.

 

Getting these issues across to your builder and his team is very important, as it is an often abused shortcut for careless builders.

 

Anyway, enough about roof fastening! I'm sure that others have similar ideas/experiences.

 

Our gutter design is such that the metal sheet will be formed so that it fits under the BlueScope metal steel roof, and also sealed with silicone.

 

Formed sheet metal flashing will be installed along the non-gutter sides of the roof (West – North – East sides) and also sealed with silicone.

 

 

All this should make the roof as weather proof and rodent proof as we possibly can... plus of course there will be no trees anywhere near the house so leaves and other wind-blown nesting materials should be minimized.

 

[Elkski]

With that sandwiched roofing having so thin top metal and a soft core it seems like it would not result in a very high compression force of the screw gasket that would ensure a seal?  And I know from my use of self drilling metal fasteners they seem to drill better at a faster speed  and then it would be hard to control and to stop before creating a simple which like you said would cause a leak.  When faced with 1000 screws a man will find the fastest way.   Also if a screw does do a simple what is the solution?  Even with no soft core I have always doubted the sealing feature of those screws. 

[Elkski]

What slope does your cement gutter have?   You always mention "sealed with silicone". As if it's easy to apply correctly and seals.   It may be installed half way to your design ideas and seal initially but time, temps, uv, material expansion, and surface cleanliness are all  fighting to cause failure.   Sealant may seal until it fails.  It will fail!.   So you have a river on your roof.  If an object or high rainfall backs up the river so it gets above the roof level.  Where would the water leak into?  Because it will.  On normal gutters an overflow can go over the outside edge or go up under the metal drip edge and then down the metal facia assuming the facia is higher than the gutter.  Sorry to be negative but it was my job to think of all the failure modes, and I also have had 20 years fighting water since my house is on a bluff.  Wind and rain can do seemingly do un natural things.  

Edited May 21, 2023 by Elkski

[Encid]

Just now, Elkski said:

With that sandwiched roofing having so thin top metal and a soft core it seems like it would not result in a very high compression force of the screw gasket that would ensure a seal?  And I know from my use of self drilling metal fasteners they seem to drill better at a faster speed  and then it would be hard to control and to stop before creating a simple which like you said would cause a leak.

Have another look at the photo from STWW's post:

 

 

See the lugs on the sides of the tek screw above the thread?

 

That prevents them from being over-tightened (in theory anyway).

 

Those particular Fix-Green STL-1 Metal Sheet Roofing Screws in addition to being able to work with standard metal sheets such as Bluescope have a maximum clamping distance of 31 mm, making it ideal for use with 25mm PU foam coated steel roofs.

 

They can also be purchased in longer lengths suitable for use with 50mm PU foam coated steel roof sections.

 

No matter which metal profile sheet is used, it can firmly hold both purlins and roof sheets and the EPDM waterproofing seal ensures no leakage.

 

Just now, Elkski said:

When faced with 1000 screws a man will find the fastest way.

Sadly I must agree with you... hence the need to ensure that the builder and his team fully understands why using the correct fastening method is so important.

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, Encid said:

The only other thing to be careful about using tek screws (as far as I can recall) is to be sure to drive them into the supporting steel as slowly as possible for proper vertical alignment.

That is incorrect, as @Elkski said you drill fast not slow, first centre punch for location, a good center punch will actually pierce the top layer leaving an excellent guide divete, then the top layer will be drilled very quickly, using no pressure the screw will almost instantly go through the insulation. You then use pressure and high speed to go through the steel underside and roof purlins 

19 minutes ago, Elkski said:

I know from my use of self drilling metal fasteners they seem to drill better at a faster speed  and then it would be hard to control and to stop before creating a simple which like you said would cause a leak. 

The way to stop the screws being over driven is to either use the right hand driver

or have an experienced builder with excellent trigger control using the left hand impact set on the lightest setting.

[sometimewoodworker]

9 minutes ago, Encid said:

 

See the lugs on the sides of the tek screw above the thread?

 

That prevents them from being over-tightened (in theory anyway).

 
Your idea unfortunately has no basis in fact, as you can see the bottom thread can pull a very significant depth past the “tight enough” point. So get a numpty and he or she can drive the ridge down to the level of the valleys.

Edited May 21, 2023 by sometimewoodworker

[unheard]

On 5/21/2023 at 7:50 AM, sometimewoodworker said:

the metal of the roof covering is very thin compared to the standard BlueScopeSteel roof. The BlueScopeSteel colorbond roof is 0.5 mm is 0.25 mm. This does not mean that it is a bad roof, but it certainly isn’t as robust as a colorbond roof. Our supplier has stated that there is no guarantee this compares to the colorbond 30 year guarantee, I’ll be in Thailand if the company that sells your roof stock trading, then there goes your guarantee, but the fact that they offer a 30 year guarantee suggest that the colorbond material itself is excellent.

Can you elaborate more on your material thickness and also exact material?

@Encid plans on getting Bluescope (I'd assume Colorbond) and if you've gotten the same material then it should carry warranty.

 

Did you get Bluescope Colorbond branded steel (the logo stamped on the underneath) or some other Chinese or Korean metal sheet?

It's not clear from your post what you mean by saying that your supplier has stated that there's no guarantee for your metal as it would be the case with Colorbond.

Does it imply that your material is not sourced from Bluescope?

 

Bluescope produced coated metal sheet comes in two versions: Colorbond and Zacs.

Colorbond is warranted for 30 years and Zacs for 10-12.

Both come in a variety of thicknesses, e.g. Zacs:

 

 

 

Edited May 22, 2023 by unheard

[sometimewoodworker]

3 hours ago, unheard said:

Can you elaborate more on your material thickness and also exact material?

@Encid plans on getting Bluescope (I'd assume Colorbond) and if you've gotten the same material then it should carry warranty.

The material thickness is as you quoted 0.25mm

Bluescope Produce a verity of materials with a verity of guarantees 

The material we are using is ST-40-760PU it certainly is not colorbond since the colorbond material we have is 0.5mm AFAIK it is the thinnest available. The exact material is shown in the photographs above, since the back is coated with foam the identity of it is unknown.

3 hours ago, unheard said:

It's not clear from your post what you mean by saying that your supplier has stated that there's no guarantee

how is that not clear!!!

 

(It is a dead parrot “ 'E's not pinin'! 'E's passed on! This parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible!! THIS IS AN EX-PARROT!!) substitute the words referring to parrot with guarantee will that be more clear

 

I am well aware of the data referring to  Colorbond, we have about 500 square metres of it on our roofs, these are two of them

 

3 hours ago, unheard said:

Does it imply that your material is not sourced from Bluescope?

No domestic install sources from Bluescope, and probably few if any commercial installs will source from them either. However it is very probable that SANGTHAI METALSHEET does indeed source some or possibly all their material from them.

 

3 hours ago, unheard said:

material?

@Encid plans on getting Bluescope (I'd assume Colorbond) and

The material he referenced is ST-40-760PU it is not clear that he is going to that exact material or some other version. Assuming is a rather poor idea as it should be clear that colorbond is not used in ST-40-760PU neither is ZACS.

Edited May 22, 2023 by sometimewoodworker

[unheard]

12 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

The material we are using is ST-40-760PU it certainly is not colorbond since the colorbond material we have is 0.5mm AFAIK it is the thinnest available.

ST-40-760PU is the model number of their product - it has nothing to do with Bluescope's product designation.

[unheard]

12 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

The material he referenced is ST-40-760PU it is not clear that he is going to that exact material or some other version. Assuming is a rather poor idea as it should be clear that colorbond is not used in ST-40-760PU neither is ZACS.

I think the manufacturer of ST-40-760PU specifically states in their product description that the material used is Bluescope, but I could be wrong.

And If ST-40-760PU is not made out of Bluescope then what's the point of buying an "inferior" product if it's made out of a main material of unknown origin without a warranty???

While there are many Bluescope franchised stores positioned all over the country offering the real deal backed by a warranty?

Edited May 23, 2023 by unheard

[unheard]

12 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

No domestic install sources from Bluescope, and probably few if any commercial installs will source from them either. However it is very probable that SANGTHAI METALSHEET does indeed source some or possibly all their material from them.

Every Bluescope franchised store sources its material directly from the Bluescope-owned coating factory.

Edited May 23, 2023 by unheard

[unheard]

12 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

The exact material is shown in the photographs above, since the back is coated with foam the identity of it is unknown.

All of your material length is covered with foam?

How about roof ends? The foam layer should stop at least 20 cm from roof's drip edges.

And how about flashings? The are normally made from the same material.

Edited May 23, 2023 by unheard

[unheard]

An example of Bluescope Zacs product name print on the inner side of flashings:

 

Edited May 23, 2023 by unheard

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, unheard said:

ST-40-760PU is the model number of their product - it has nothing to do with Bluescope's product designation.

Really!!! You don’t say! Why are you presuming that the reference number I quoted has any significance other than to Sangthai Metalsheet. I certainly never suggested that.

2 hours ago, unheard said:

I think the manufacturer of ST-40-760PU specifically states in their product description that the material used is Bluescope, but I could be wrong.

Congratulations, you are wrong. Sangthai Metalsheet Certainly references Bluescope as a supplier but nothing I can see specifically states the exact materials used.

 

1 hour ago, unheard said:

Every Bluescope franchised store sources its material directly from the Bluescope-owned coating factory.

They may well do so. I never suggested that they don’t. However the details of the agreements are not publicly available so they may be able to source material from other providers. Incidentally or maybe directly to the point you can not get your material from Bluescope you have to use a middleman, as I said.

 

59 minutes ago, unheard said:

An example of Bluescope Zacs product name print on the inner side of flashings:

 

I know that is the case with the 2 main product lines. We have used them extensively and the markings are not subtle 

I certainly don’t know the details of all Bluescope products, since you are so knowledgeable you can  research  and discover if they produce a 2.5mm sheet, if they do the name of it and the markings, if any, on it.

The material is certainly not colorbond or ZACS as it is too thin.

2 hours ago, unheard said:

How about roof ends? The foam layer should stop at least 20 cm from roof's drip edges.

That depends on the design of your roof 

 

2 hours ago, unheard said:

what's the point of buying an "inferior" product if it's made out of a main material of unknown origin without a warranty???

You are really naive if you believe that the majority of warranties in Thailand have any real meaning. Certainly some do, warrantees are given by the supplier or passed on from a manufacturer in the case of tools, like the big name brands, such as Makita. However, as far as I know, warranties on building material are from the company that supplies it not from the original manufacturer, the company that supplies it may well have an agreement with the original manufacturer, but you have to deal with the supply company, not the OEM. Therefore if your supplying company has gone out of business so has your warranty.

You are implying that the material is inferior because it may not be a Bluescope product. You surely realise that there are other companies that produce coated steel don’t you? And that the material can be as good, or better, than Bluescope’s products?

[unheard]

4 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Incidentally or maybe directly to the point you can not get your material from Bluescope you have to use a middleman, as I said.

They're Bluescope franchised stores, specifically created by Bluescope to serve as a public facing store-front for their products.

Bluescope is not business of making (roller-forming) or selling roofs.

They process and coat "raw" metal sheet and then sell it in huge rolls to roller-forming shops whose business is to deal with end customers.

The Bluescope-franchised shop is the closest you can get to the manufacturer.