Popular Post 4MyEgo Posted February 25, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted February 25, 2022 14 minutes ago, tgw said: I don't believe that. After scoring that concession, Putin would have pushed his luck further. Ukraine wants to be a NATO member because it felt threatened for decades. WITH GOOD REASON. Russia's goal has always been to turn Ukraine into a puppet state, as stated above they tried by poisoning the president, ordering hits on key people, rigging elections, conducting false flag operations and provocations, etc. This has been going on for decades. At the end of the day, it was part of the Soviet Union, there is history there and the USA is miles away and of course will not get involved, so as I said, who loses, history repeats itself, especially when you want to put NATO close to ones borders, simple really. 3 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4MyEgo Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 8 minutes ago, tgw said: you got the sides reversed. Putin is the one who - as he alleged himself - wants to get in and out quickly of Ukraine. He will get in quickly, but won't get out, we all know that, his aim is to make sure there will be no NATO on his borders. It was ok for the USA to go into Iraq, kill hundreds of thousands of people on the pretext of there being weapons of massive destruction, yet there were none, let's not forget Saddam didn't have any nuclear weapons, the USA was always the threat, just have a look how many they have. Anyways, whatever, I see things a little clearer IMO, each to their own. 1 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post tgw Posted February 25, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted February 25, 2022 5 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said: He will get in quickly, but won't get out, we all know that, his aim is to make sure there will be no NATO on his borders. It was ok for the USA to go into Iraq, kill hundreds of thousands of people on the pretext of there being weapons of massive destruction, yet there were none, let's not forget Saddam didn't have any nuclear weapons, the USA was always the threat, just have a look how many they have. Anyways, whatever, I see things a little clearer IMO, each to their own. nope, it was certainly not OK for the USA to do what it did in Irak, not in my opinion, and a number of US leaders should have been tried for war crimes. but this is completely different. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Berkshire Posted February 25, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted February 25, 2022 10 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said: At the end of the day, it was part of the Soviet Union, there is history there and the USA is miles away and of course will not get involved, so as I said, who loses, history repeats itself, especially when you want to put NATO close to ones borders, simple really. Hmmm....so if the Russians were to take over Ukraine, then they would definitely have NATO at their borders. Romania, Poland, Slovakia, Hungary....etc. Your argument makes no sense. 7 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgw Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 4 minutes ago, Berkshire said: Hmmm....so if the Russians were to take over Ukraine, then they would definitely have NATO at their borders. Romania, Poland, Slovakia, Hungary....etc. Your argument makes no sense. especially as they already have NATO countries at their borders: one is the USA in Alaska and Latvia and Estonia share land borders with Russia. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TorquayFan Posted February 25, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted February 25, 2022 Kwasaki you are entitled to your opinion even though it is complete nonsense. Ukraine was no threat to Russia be it IN or OUT of NATO. NATO is a organisation for DEFENCE of Member's territory - (thus Russia didn't want Ukraine to join). The quickest resolution of these horrors will be if someone 'eliminates' the mad Putin in some way or other. 5 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris.B Posted February 25, 2022 Author Share Posted February 25, 2022 59 minutes ago, Berkshire said: Hmmm....so if the Russians were to take over Ukraine, then they would definitely have NATO at their borders. Romania, Poland, Slovakia, Hungary....etc. Your argument makes no sense. What should make sense is that Ukraine should be neutral and be a buffer state between Nato and Russia. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Excel Posted February 25, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted February 25, 2022 12 hours ago, gargamon said: Putin is getting old. Senility is obviously kicking in. With no controls on his power, and his finger on the button, the future of the EU and the remaining west-oriented former eastern European are in peril. Putin's goal is to reconstitute the former USSR. NATO countries are in his path, so this will likely grow exponentially. Russia - Ukraine 2022 is the same as Germany - Poland 1938. Learn from history or be destined to repeat it. 100% correct unfortunately. The disjointed EU, the toothless NATO did not react when the Russians took over Crimea in 2014 so Putin realised there would be not retaliation only worthless lip service with sanctions. Plus Trump came along supporting Putin and what we have today is unfortunatly the result of spineless politicians who have no regard to history and the last mad man that created havoc in Europe. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoon Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, 4MyEgo said: The one thing you forgot here, is that Iraq was a push over, Russia is a nuclear power, so the USA and others will not get involved militarily because the last thing anyone wants is a nuclear war and Putin is not the late Saddam Hussain. Putin only did it because he gambled there would be no retaliation. If he had seriously thought there would be he would have never have done it He wants to keep as far away from nuclear war as anyone else. The "last thing" to come would be nuclear war..........the last resort Losing half an army and not getting the Ukraine would not be anywhere near sufficient cause. Just don't invade Russia, don't put troops on "unfriendly soil".......anything else is OK. Edited February 25, 2022 by Enoon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris.B Posted February 25, 2022 Author Share Posted February 25, 2022 What do you mean "the toothless Nato" did not react? Ukraine is not a member of the alliance so why should they react? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoon Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 2 hours ago, 4MyEgo said: The one thing you forgot here, is that Iraq was a push over, Russia is a nuclear power, so the USA and others will not get involved militarily because the last thing anyone wants is a nuclear war and Putin is not the late Saddam Hussain. Putin only did it because he gambled there would be no retaliation. If he had seriously thought there would be he would have never have done it He wants to keep as far away from nuclear war as anyone else. The "last thing" to come would be nuclear war..........the last resort Losing half an army and not getting the Ukraine would not be anywhere near sufficient cause. Just don't invade Russia.......anything else is OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris.B Posted February 25, 2022 Author Share Posted February 25, 2022 20 minutes ago, Enoon said: Putin only did it because he gambled there would be no retaliation. Again, why should there be retaliation from Nato? Ukraine is not in Nato. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olfu Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 I see some really big patriots of big idiotic Russia here--national socialists in action. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgw Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 1 hour ago, Excel said: 100% correct unfortunately. The disjointed EU, the toothless NATO did not react when the Russians took over Crimea in 2014 so Putin realised there would be not retaliation only worthless lip service with sanctions. Plus Trump came along supporting Putin and what we have today is unfortunatly the result of spineless politicians who have no regard to history and the last mad man that created havoc in Europe. Crimea as well as the 2 separatist republics have a relatively good case for Putin "protecting" them, because 80 to 90% of their population is of Russian nationality. Had Putin just invaded these 3, there would be no war. For some reason he decided to go full crazy ivan. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post tgw Posted February 25, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted February 25, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, olfu said: I see some really big patriots of big idiotic Russia here--national socialists in action. don't worry, they are mostly trolls paid by Russia or useful idiots. Edited February 25, 2022 by tgw 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, tgw said: don't worry, they are mostly trolls paid by Russia or useful idiots. I think most are maga alt right Americans that identify with strong man dictators might is always right rather than liberal western democracies. There was the exact same movement before the US involvement in WW2, pro Hitler fascist isolationists like Lindbergh and Henry Ford. Edited February 25, 2022 by Jingthing 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgw Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 4 minutes ago, Jingthing said: I think most are maga alt right Americans that identify with strong man dictators might is always right rather than liberal western democracies. There was the exact same movement before the US involvement in WW2, pro Hitler fascist isolationists like Lindbergh and Henry Ford. so it's option #2. to be honest, Putin was doing all right until the invasion. he seems to have gone senile. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nojohndoe Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 9 hours ago, Berkshire said: I had thought that Putin was mostly about trying to revive the old Soviet Union in the hopes of regaining past glory. But some suggest that his motives are much simpler: it's about protecting his energy interests. [To understand the Kremlin’s motivations in regard to its smaller, and relatively impoverished, neighbor, the key fact to know is that Russia supplies 40% of Europe’s heating-fuel supplies — namely, natural gas.] [To get it there, Russia relies mostly on two aging pipeline networks, one of which runs through Belarus and the other through Ukraine. For this, Russia pays Ukraine around $2 billion a year in transit fees.] [Russia is a petrostate and relies on oil and natural-gas sales for about 60% of its export revenue and 40% of its total budget expenditures. Any crimp on Russia’s ability to access the European market is a threat to its economic security.] It's always about money and power, and Putin craves for both. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/i-m-a-former-moscow-correspondent-don-t-let-vladimir-putin-fool-you-russia-s-invasion-of-ukraine-is-only-about-one-thing/ar-AAUbFJ3?ocid=wispr Could be and probably correct at least to some degree. Unfortunately that is the same basic criteria any nation with significant clout applies and exercises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2 is 1 Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 (edited) 9 minutes ago, tgw said: so it's option #2. to be honest, Putin was doing all right until the invasion. he seems to have gone senile. I think main reason about this attack is money! Sactions not hurth oligarch's they just get much more money. Behind Putin is many billionare who make decision's whit him is he senile or not. Money has always rule this planet and it always will! If we not go back and start chance squirrel skins. Edited February 25, 2022 by 2 is 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgw Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 what I said before:https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2022/02/24/we-need-as-much-stinger-and-anti-tank-weapons-as-possible-says-ukraines-defense-minister/ is it possible to launch a go fund me to buy javelins and stingers for Ukraine ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 (edited) 9 minutes ago, tgw said: so it's option #2. to be honest, Putin was doing all right until the invasion. he seems to have gone senile. Considering this a bit, yes some that are obviously just parroting Kremlin propaganda without blaming the Russian invasion on Biden are probably not coming from maga. Edited February 25, 2022 by Jingthing 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmerjo Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 All the talk is about border security. The food bowl and commodities may play more of a part than stated. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post anchadian Posted February 25, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted February 25, 2022 (edited) BREAKINGChina backs Russia to resolve Ukraine crisis via dialogue While Western countries unite against Russia, its neighbour China is less condemnatory. In a phone call on Friday, China's President Xi Jinping told Vladimir Putin that China supports Russia in efforts to resolve the Ukraine crisis via dialogue, Chinese state television CCTV reports. The Ukraine-Russia crisis is posing a major challenge for China on many fronts. https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-60517447 Edited February 25, 2022 by Scott Edited for Fair Use 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nojohndoe Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 Having listened to quite a number of generally antagonistic interviews of Putin by western media over the last couple of years he has responded IMO very rationally in addressing the generic accusations of "blame" accorded to Russia in all and any scenario and at times accurately redirected similar such accusations. It is undeniably sad that he has undertaken the step to undertake this "Special Operation" which will cost lives and inflict hardship on so many innocents but it can not be denied that this is the result of supercilious assumption that "Western" affiliation inferred superiority in diplomatic capacity to dismiss any other genuine concerns. If nobody can understand the derived logic that if back in 2014 the Minsk Agreement was considered to be the solution for Russian concerns yet since that time there has been quite deliberate avoidance by the Ukraine Govt. as called and token to zero acknowledgment of the fact by those very friendly to it that any confidence in verbal statements ,despite constant reminders via Putin and others, generated not a paranoid comprehension but a confirmed comprehension of the reality presented by it. In Putin's announcements of intent he outlined the terms in causation and I think has re-iterated them since. It is now only a matter of public conjecture as to a different situation as of now if instead the (Alliance) had pressured (S)Zelensky into ratifying the Minsk agreement . Possibly it would have made no difference except for the undeniable fact that it would have rendered Putin unjustifiable in such as current action. Or? as may are beginning to contemplate....these helicopters landing bring insignificant death when compared to the profit war seems to generate for the few ??????? There are some inexplicables in this scenario that defy normal comprehension. 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anchadian Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 (edited) BREAKINGKremlin: Russia ready for talks with Ukraine on 'neutrality' Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov says that Russia is ready for talks with Ukraine in Minsk, the Belarusian capital, official Russian news agency RIA Novosti reports. But he said this would have to be about Ukraine declaring a "neutral status" - which would include "demilitarisation". Russia has all along wanted Ukraine to rule out ever joining Nato. https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-60517447 Edited February 25, 2022 by Scott Edited for Fair Use 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 Posts have been edited for fair use policy. You cannot quote more than the headline, 3 sentences and then a link to the remainder of the article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Credo Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 5 hours ago, 2 is 1 said: I think main reason about this attack is money! Sactions not hurth oligarch's they just get much more money. Behind Putin is many billionare who make decision's whit him is he senile or not. Money has always rule this planet and it always will! If we not go back and start chance squirrel skins. The oligarch's have their money because of Putin and they get to keep their money because of Putin. They have little choice but to support him. If you think bad things don't happen to people who don't support Putin, take a look at what happened to the richest man in Russia and head of Yukos:https://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddawkins/2020/02/19/why-russias-one-time-richest-man-wont-see-a-penny-of-the-50-billion-putin-destroyed/?sh=14939bf63840 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post 2 is 1 Posted February 25, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted February 25, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Credo said: The oligarch's have their money because of Putin and they get to keep their money because of Putin. They have little choice but to support him. If you think bad things don't happen to people who don't support Putin, take a look at what happened to the richest man in Russia and head of Yukos:https://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddawkins/2020/02/19/why-russias-one-time-richest-man-wont-see-a-penny-of-the-50-billion-putin-destroyed/?sh=14939bf63840 I am FIN and 2 my granfather has been in war against Russia and one's 3 brother die in that fight. In Finland we really know what is Russia and what happen there! If you live in country whitch have 1300 kilometer border whit Russia you have to be intrested your neibor. Edited February 25, 2022 by 2 is 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jingthing Posted February 25, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted February 25, 2022 (edited) Is he destined to be a martyr for Ukraine? In any event, used to be a comedian or not, he's a REAL great leader as opposed to the evil dictator in Moscow. Edited February 25, 2022 by Jingthing 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4MyEgo Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 16 hours ago, Berkshire said: Hmmm....so if the Russians were to take over Ukraine, then they would definitely have NATO at their borders. Romania, Poland, Slovakia, Hungary....etc. Your argument makes no sense. From a strategic point of view, yes Russia's new borders have been brought closer to the NATO borders as opposed to the NATO borders being further expanded towards Russia's previously known borders, i.e. pushing forward to the threat after you have been warning them for years to back off. In other words if you want to bring it on, here I am, let's not play games, a bit like a bloke yelling stuff at you on his side of the street, well you either cross the road and take it to him on his side or you wait for him to come to you, I know what I would do. . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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