Assault on Kiev: Russian helicopters swoop above Ukraine's capital

[Rimmer]

Off topic baiting, bickering troll posts have been removed also replies.

[RJRS1301]

https://thebarentsobserver.com/ru/security/2016/09/russia-moves-missiles-finnish-border

 

Russia has announced that two s-400 missile defence systems have been moved to the Finnish border.

[placeholder]

 

From the article:

"Finland’s Defence Minister says that there’s nothing unusual about the move, except the way it was reported.

Russian news agency Interfax reported on Thursday that two S-400 anti-aircraft missile systems had been moved towards the Finnish border. Defence Minister Jussi Niinistö told Yle that there is nothing strange about the move."

https://thebarentsobserver.com/ru/security/2016/09/russia-moves-missiles-finnish-border

Anyway, given Russia's poor performance in the Ukraine, the saber it's rattling looks mighty rusty.

 

[tgw]

5 hours ago, heybruce said:

I would like to see Ukraine provided with weapons that threaten Russian ships, but those weapons may require significant training.

me too.

the training should not by a major issue, contractors can be used for that.

[Chris.B]

34 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

https://thebarentsobserver.com/ru/security/2016/09/russia-moves-missiles-finnish-border

 

Russia has announced that two s-400 missile defence systems have been moved to the Finnish border.

Why? Do they expect Finland to attack Russia with missiles?

 

[placeholder]

6 hours ago, heybruce said:

I would like to see Ukraine provided with weapons that threaten Russian ships, but those weapons may require significant training.

Boris Johnson pledges to send more arms during surprise visit to Kyiv

 

“We are stepping up our own military and economic support and convening a global alliance to bring this tragedy to an end, and ensure Ukraine survives and thrives as a free and sovereign nation.”

No 10 said Britain would send 120 armoured vehicles and new anti-ship missile systems to Ukraine. The missiles can do serious damage to Russian warships and could be used to tackle the Russian navy siege of Black Sea ports.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/09/boris-johnson-pledges-to-send-more-arms-during-surprise-visit-to-kyiv

[GroveHillWanderer]

6 hours ago, heybruce said:

I would like to see Ukraine provided with weapons that threaten Russian ships, but those weapons may require significant training.

According to various reports, the UK is planning to do exactly that.

 

Here's one link that was already given on this thread, by @placeholder.

 

UK pledges to send more arms

[Bkk Brian]

We all know the Ukrainians can't hold out in Mariupol for much longer but its been a brave fight. My concern is that when it has finally fallen to the murdering Russians, what will happen to the over 100K civilians still there? I wonder how many are missing and been executed?  Will the remainder be forced to go to Russia even the ones that don't want to go? 

 

This has just been announced by the Russian Defense Ministry:

 

Russian ministry of defence claims a total of 1026 Ukrainian marines from 36th brigade surrendered at Azovmash plant in Mariupol yesterday, including 122 officers. Military propaganda posts multiple photos and videos of the event. POWs say they’ve run out of ammo, food.

 

The Russian will also have plenty of time to cover up their atrocities of murder and rape.

 

Powerful video: This is how the russian army has been destroying and continues to obliterate Mariupol, killing thousands of Ukrainians. This is what hell looks like in 21st century Europe. Footage by @AP

 

The Kremlin plans to send 100,000 Ukrainians to Siberia and the Arctic Circle, report says, as Zelenskyy warns of 'filtration camps' for captured people

 

A Kremlin document, cited by The i, shows Russia made an emergency order last month to forcibly move 95,739 Ukrainians to far-away regions in Russia.

The document suggests that Ukrainians will not be sent to major cities like Moscow or St. Petersburg, but rather to remote areas located thousands of miles away from their homes.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-plans-to-send-ukrainians-to-siberia-arctic-circle-report-2022-4

 

[tgw]

apparently, Ukrainian soldiers are beginning to mass surrender in Mariupol

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/chechen-chief-kadyrov-says-over-1000-ukrainian-marines-surrender-mariupol-2022-04-13/

https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-soldiers-mariupol-russian-forces-british-volunteer-1697210

they run out of ammunition and food

 

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/hundreds-of-ukraine-marines-surrender-in-key-port-of-mariupol--says-russia/47513694

 

a Brit is among them:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/british-fighter-mariupol-ukraine-surrender-b2056477.html

Edited April 13, 2022 by tgw

[Rimmer]

Some bickering posts removed, there is no room in this topic for petty bickering, post it correctly with a link or it could be removed.

[tgw]

22 minutes ago, tgw said:

apparently, Ukrainian soldiers are beginning to mass surrender in Mariupol

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/chechen-chief-kadyrov-says-over-1000-ukrainian-marines-surrender-mariupol-2022-04-13/

https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-soldiers-mariupol-russian-forces-british-volunteer-1697210

they run out of ammunition and food

 

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/hundreds-of-ukraine-marines-surrender-in-key-port-of-mariupol--says-russia/47513694

 

a Brit is among them:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/british-fighter-mariupol-ukraine-surrender-b2056477.html

apparently, the surrenders concern the Ilich steel plant (north of Mariupol) and maybe also Asovmash steel plant (also north of Mariupol), defended by the 36th Naval Infantry.

No word from other units yet or from Asovstal

[Bkk Brian]

Published by the BBC 1 hour ago, not yesterday

 

Ukraine: British man fighting in Mariupol 'forced to surrender'

 

The family of a British man fighting in Ukraine said he has told them he will have to surrender to Russian forces.

Aiden Aslin, from Newark in Nottinghamshire, has been fighting in Ukraine since he moved there in 2018, and became a marine in the country's military.

His unit has recently been defending the besieged city of Mariupol, which has been heavily bombarded by Russia.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-60894476

[Bkk Brian]

Looking forward to this OSCE report when it gets published later today or tomorrow:

 

 

The full OSCE expert mission report, which is a chilling read, will be published today after the special meeting of the OSCE Permanent Council. Follow-up will also be discussed.

 

The report investigates events 24 Feb-1 April, meaning it does not cover the atrocities committed in villages in the proximity of Kyiv, incl. Bucha. Russia was invited to cooperate with the expert mission but it refused. There is an exchange of letters attached to the report.

 

@OSCE expert mission report finds "clear patterns of international humanitarian law violations by the Russian forces in their conduct of hostilities" in #Ukraine. The report also finds "credible evidence" that "the most fundamental human rights" have been violated.

[tgw]

1 hour ago, tgw said:

apparently, Ukrainian soldiers are beginning to mass surrender in Mariupol

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/chechen-chief-kadyrov-says-over-1000-ukrainian-marines-surrender-mariupol-2022-04-13/

https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-soldiers-mariupol-russian-forces-british-volunteer-1697210

they run out of ammunition and food

 

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/hundreds-of-ukraine-marines-surrender-in-key-port-of-mariupol--says-russia/47513694

 

a Brit is among them:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/british-fighter-mariupol-ukraine-surrender-b2056477.html

apparently, some surrendered, others did this:

"in Mariupol, as a result of a risky maneuver, units of the 36th Independent Marine Brigade broke through to [join] the Azov regiment."

Arestovych said that the Azov regiment had "received substantial reinforcements ... the 36th brigade avoided defeat and received additional serious opportunities, in fact, gained a second chance."

 

https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-putin-news-04-13-22/index.html

 

if that's true, it means the 36th Naval Infantry Brigade broke through Russian lines, from the northern pocket to the Asovstal pocket.

a very brave move.

 

my next thought was wondering if they are equipped with bayonets

Edited April 13, 2022 by tgw

[Scott]

Numerous combative, argumentative off-topic posts removed along with replies.  Please stay on topic. 

 

[Bkk Brian]

4 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Looking forward to this OSCE report when it gets published later today or tomorrow:

 

 

The full OSCE expert mission report, which is a chilling read, will be published today after the special meeting of the OSCE Permanent Council. Follow-up will also be discussed.

 

The report investigates events 24 Feb-1 April, meaning it does not cover the atrocities committed in villages in the proximity of Kyiv, incl. Bucha. Russia was invited to cooperate with the expert mission but it refused. There is an exchange of letters attached to the report.

 

@OSCE expert mission report finds "clear patterns of international humanitarian law violations by the Russian forces in their conduct of hostilities" in #Ukraine. The report also finds "credible evidence" that "the most fundamental human rights" have been violated.

Now published:

 

REPORT ON VIOLATIONS OF INTERNATIONAL HUMANITARIAN AND HUMAN RIGHTS LAW, WAR CRIMES AND CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY COMMITTED IN UKRAINE SINCE 24 FEBRUARY 2022

 

108 pages pdf! https://www.osce.org/files/f/documents/f/a/515868.pdf

[farmerjo]

13 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Now published:

 

REPORT ON VIOLATIONS OF INTERNATIONAL HUMANITARIAN AND HUMAN RIGHTS LAW, WAR CRIMES AND CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY COMMITTED IN UKRAINE SINCE 24 FEBRUARY 2022

 

108 pages pdf! https://www.osce.org/files/f/documents/f/a/515868.pdf

As this report
shows, violations occurred on the Ukrainian as well as on the Russian side

Many on here are going to end up manic depressives by the end of this conflict.

[Bkk Brian]

7 minutes ago, farmerjo said:

As this report
shows, violations occurred on the Ukrainian as well as on the Russian side

Many on here are going to end up manic depressives by the end of this conflict.

Of course, its an independent report by experts they do not brush aside war crimes or violations from either side. Did you think that after the illegal onslaught by the Russians, murdering and raping civilians that the Ukraines would remain white than white?

 

Speak for yourself on what people here will become, personally I hope they are informed of the atrocities by independent experts

 

From the report: "As this report shows, violations occurred on the Ukrainian as well as on the Russian side. The violations committed by the Russian Federation, however, are by far larger in nature and scale."

 

From the US OSCE Ambassador: The report documents many particularly egregious attacks, such as the March 9 attack striking the Mariupol Maternity House and Children’s Hospital, determining that the hospital was destroyed by a Russian strike.  The mission concluded that this attack was deliberate, with no effective warning given, and thus constitutes a “clear violation of IHL” –international humanitarian law — and “a war crime” (page 47).  While the Russian government alleged the hospital was used for military purposes, the mission categorically dismissed these claims. 

 

Similarly, the mission found that the March 16 attack on the drama theater in Mariupol that killed approximately 300 people was most likely an egregious violation of international humanitarian law and those who ordered or executed it committed a war crime.  The mission also dismissed the Kremlin’s attempt to blame Ukraine for this and other attacks (p 47-48). 

[2 is 1]

7 hours ago, Chris.B said:

Why? Do they expect Finland to attack Russia with missiles?

 

S-400 is naval strike missile so they think we going to attack there whit our kayak. 

We have saying in Finland "Russians are Russians even fry whit butter". Mean they never get better and you cant trust them. 

Edited April 13, 2022 by 2 is 1

[tgw]

1 hour ago, 2 is 1 said:

S-400 is naval strike missile so they think we going to attack there whit our kayak. 

We have saying in Finland "Russians are Russians even fry whit butter". Mean they never get better and you cant trust them. 

nope, S-400 is a Russian SAM system.

allegedly very performant.

this keeps being repeated over and over, so I begin to have doubts about that system being so effective.

Edited April 13, 2022 by tgw

[metisdead]

A post using a trolling meme has been removed.

[Bkk Brian]

This is great news. The Moskva is the flagship of the Russian naval forces black Sea contingent and will be a huge blow to Russia. There are reports on twitter that its sending out distress signals and sinking. The Russians have also confirmed its on fire.

 

This is the same ship that the Ukraine border guards told to f### off on Snake Island at the start of the invasion....????

 

Russian cruiser was hit by missiles - Ukraine

 

More on Russia's Moskva missile cruiser, which Moscow says has been badly damaged by a fire.

Ukraine earlier claimed the warship was hit by Ukraine-made Neptune missiles.

Ukrainian presidential aide Oleksiy Arestovych said Russian rescuers were unable to reach the vessel, which could have had as many as 510 crew members on board.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-61101906

 

Image source

 

EDIT

Reports now coming in saying that the Moskva has now sunk to the bottom of the Black Sea. This is most likely the largest mass-casualty event that the Russian Armed Forces have suffered since Putin launched this war of aggression.

Edited April 14, 2022 by Bkk Brian

[RJRS1301]

Reports on Telegram suggest Russian warship “Moskva” has capsized. The information is being verified.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/4/13/russian-attacks-on-ukraines-kharkiv-escalating-mayor-says-liveblog

[placeholder]

About a week ago, this article about the Moskva was published.

Russia’s Most Powerful Warship In The Black Sea Is Operating In A Pattern

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2022/04/russias-most-powerful-warship-in-the-black-sea-is-operating-in-a-pattern/

It has 2 weapon systems. One is anti-ship missiles. And the other is anti-craft missiles.

The Moskva was hit with Ukrainian made anti-ship missiles.

If the British follow through on their promise and transfer 100 of their presumably more advanced anti-ship missiles to Ukraine, the implications for the Russian Navy wouldn't be good.

[ozimoron]

12 hours ago, farmerjo said:

As this report
shows, violations occurred on the Ukrainian as well as on the Russian side

Many on here are going to end up manic depressives by the end of this conflict.

Sure, and all those accused should stand trial, don't you agree?

[thaibeachlovers]

58 minutes ago, placeholder said:

About a week ago, this article about the Moskva was published.

Russia’s Most Powerful Warship In The Black Sea Is Operating In A Pattern

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2022/04/russias-most-powerful-warship-in-the-black-sea-is-operating-in-a-pattern/

It has 2 weapon systems. One is anti-ship missiles. And the other is anti-craft missiles.

The Moskva was hit with Ukrainian made anti-ship missiles.

If the British follow through on their promise and transfer 100 of their presumably more advanced anti-ship missiles to Ukraine, the implications for the Russian Navy wouldn't be good.

Given advanced anti ship missile systems entire surface navies may have become obsolete. A patrol boat armed with one may be able to sink anything afloat.

I'm sure the British will be observing with great interest given they have spent so much to build 2 floating targets.

[coolcarer]

25 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Given advanced anti ship missile systems entire surface navies may have become obsolete. A patrol boat armed with one may be able to sink anything afloat.

I'm sure the British will be observing with great interest given they have spent so much to build 2 floating targets.

The British aircraft carriers play an entirely different role to Moskva and stay well out of range of Neptune missiles. A carrier strike group Is protected with frigates, cruisers and destroyers with an added sub thrown in for good measure. I doubt the British gave this strike much thought other than a huge round of applause.

[Chris.B]

31 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Given advanced anti ship missile systems entire surface navies may have become obsolete. A patrol boat armed with one may be able to sink anything afloat.

I'm sure the British will be observing with great interest given they have spent so much to build 2 floating targets.

...and China is rapidly building a second. 

[VocalNeal]

39 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'm sure the British will be observing with great interest given they have spent so much to build 2 floating targets.

????I believe they have experience of anti-shipping missiles?

[Berkshire]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Given advanced anti ship missile systems entire surface navies may have become obsolete. A patrol boat armed with one may be able to sink anything afloat.

I'm sure the British will be observing with great interest given they have spent so much to build 2 floating targets.

"A patrol boat armed with one may be able to sink anything afloat."

 

Hmmmm.....I'm pretty sure the US Navy would have thought about this before spending trillions on their fleet of surface ships.