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Assault on Kiev: Russian helicopters swoop above Ukraine's capital


Chris.B

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18 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

I don't see how that's obvious at all. The US and EU thought (and said) that it was vitally important to help Ukraine to resist as best as possible, this illegal invasion and blatant violation of international law. 

 

That doesn't mean they thought Russia could ultimately be defeated. Many of the analyses that I heard and read seemed to hold that halting the Russian advance was probably the best that could be hoped for, followed by some kind of peace negotiations.

 

Quite a few people still hold that view, I reckon.

So, your contention is that because the western allies thought halting the Russian advance would be ended with negotiations, they thought it worth spending billions of $ ( then not available for their own citizens benefit ) so that billions of $ worth of infrastructure could be destroyed, many people would die, world food aid would be disrupted, energy supplies in Europe become more expensive etc etc etc, before the negotiations happened, rather than having negotiations BEFORE the conflict started? Really?

 

Russia, despite wishing and hoping isn't losing, and only has to dig in and fend off the Ukrainians till the west really does cut off the money train, following which Russia will likely get what it wants- Eastern Ukraine, Crimea and a guarantee that Ukraine does not join NATO. A lot of people died to get to what they could have had before the conflict.

 

Too many people in power want to kill other people for my liking. The UN was set up to prevent exactly this sort of fiasco and has failed, and failed and failed. Either dump the security council, which doesn't secure anything, or dump the entire waste of money ( except for the bits that actually work ).

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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/01/06/tired-volodymyr-zelensky-looks-too-weak-to-achieve-victo

 

Retired colonel Richard Kemp of the Telegraph who has been one of their biggest cheerleaders having visited there many times during the war now opines Ukraine cannot win. Continuing a senseless fight now just adds to the senseless slaughter. It should be noted that like many others he is now actively reporting on the Gaza war having been embedded with the IDF at one point and looks like he has switched horses to ride with them. Zelenskiy is right to feel in the final analysis to gave been betrayed by his fairweather friends and no amount of speculative wunderwaffe can win the war. Not in any instance is there any to give the UK is having to mothball ships due to a shortage of sailors. Gen Z who would do the fighting just don't want to anymore.

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51 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Trying to make something out of nothing there. Kemp has always been a little pessimistic, more to do with the Wests failure to supply the needed and promised military equipment and ammunition's on time and longer range weapons.

 

Its nothing to do whatsoever with his covering of the war in Israel.

 

Here's an article of his from the Telegraph in Sept (no paywall as article copied on his own site): UKRAINE’S COUNTER-OFFENSIVE IS STALLING. THE WEST MUST PREPARE FOR HUMILIATION

 

Another from July: Ukraine’s counter-offensive is failing, with no easy fixes

Thanks for the links I hadn't read them. That reinforces my point that informed unbiased  opinion thinks that Ukraine is losing and badly. That being the case what is to be gained by continuing the fight with what appears to be a badly trained often unmotivated conscript army increasingly forcibly conscripted and often of older years. The point about pundits covering Gaza wasn't to slur on Kemps intentions but the reality is the global attention has shifted focus onto Israel from Ukraine to the latter's detriment as Zelensiy sadly knows too well. Netanhayu refused a visit from him whilst accepting every other world leader soon after October 7th.

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37 minutes ago, tgw said:

 

You are mistaken. Every Ukrainian that is killed is a lost Western life.

I am not mistaken,that is how a lot of people see it.

I think every life is important.

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