Assault on Kiev: Russian helicopters swoop above Ukraine's capital

[Rimmer]

A personal attack has been removed

[tgw]

3 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

Of course Russia has no intention to invade or conquer any other country. This is, like you said, just propaganda, to justify continued military spending (cui bono). It is also projection by you know who. They sure would love to get their hands on the resources that Russia has.

 

 

this is nonsense.

Ruzzia is already occupying parts of Moldova and Georgia. They won't stop there.

 

Also, I would like you and the other posters who say Ruzzia has "obvious security concerns" to explain what these security concerns are and in which scenarios and how the invasion of Ukraine, Georgia, Moldova would mitigate these concerns.

[Gweiloman]

43 minutes ago, tgw said:

 

this is nonsense.

Ruzzia is already occupying parts of Moldova and Georgia. They won't stop there.

 

Also, I would like you and the other posters who say Ruzzia has "obvious security concerns" to explain what these security concerns are and in which scenarios and how the invasion of Ukraine, Georgia, Moldova would mitigate these concerns.

I’m sure you know very well what these security concerns are. You just refuse to accept that they are valid, as far as Russia is concerned. It’s not unlike US’s concerns when missiles were being sent to Cuba.

 

America’s actions all round the world (military bases, troops in Kinmen etc) is leading the world down the road to another major conflict. This is plain to practically everyone, except for those who are too obtuse or arrogant.

[Wobblybob]

7 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

I’m sure you know very well what these security concerns are. You just refuse to accept that they are valid, as far as Russia is concerned. It’s not unlike US’s concerns when missiles were being sent to Cuba.

 

America’s actions all round the world (military bases, troops in Kinmen etc) is leading the world down the road to another major conflict. This is plain to practically everyone, except for those who are too obtuse or arrogant.

Gibberish hyperbolic nonsense!

[ChicagoExpat]

38 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

I’m sure you know very well what these security concerns are. You just refuse to accept that they are valid, as far as Russia is concerned. It’s not unlike US’s concerns when missiles were being sent to Cuba.

 

America’s actions all round the world (military bases, troops in Kinmen etc) is leading the world down the road to another major conflict. This is plain to practically everyone, except for those who are too obtuse or arrogant.

It takes an incredible level of dishonesty to blame Russia's war of choice on any other country but Russia.

[Mavideol]

Murder rate among Russian soldiers returning from Ukraine surges

https://au.yahoo.com/news/russian-soldier-murder-rate-soars-134319473.html

[johng]

https://www.state.gov/reports/2023-country-reports-on-human-rights-practices/ukraine/

 

2023 Country Reports on Human Rights Practices: Ukraine

 

Swathes of paragraphs about how bad Russia is 

(the report is supposed to be about Ukraine)

 

And then

 

There were also significant human rights issues involving Ukrainian government officials, although not comparable to the scope of Russia’s abuses, which included credible reports of: enforced disappearance; torture and cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment or punishment; harsh and life-threatening prison conditions; arbitrary arrest or detention; serious problems with the independence of the judiciary; restrictions on freedom of expression, including for members of the media, including violence or threats of violence against journalists, unjustified arrests or prosecutions of journalists, and censorship; serious restrictions on internet freedom; substantial interference with the freedoms of peaceful assembly and association; restrictions on freedom of movement; serious government corruption; extensive gender-based violence; systematic restrictions on workers’ freedom of association; and the existence of the worst forms of child labor. Some of these human rights issues stemmed from martial law, which continued to curtail democratic freedoms, including freedom of movement, freedom of the press, freedom of peaceful assembly, and legal protections.

The government often did not take adequate steps to identify and punish officials who may have committed abuses.

[jvs]

9 minutes ago, johng said:

https://www.state.gov/reports/2023-country-reports-on-human-rights-practices/ukraine/

 

2023 Country Reports on Human Rights Practices: Ukraine

 

Swathes of paragraphs about how bad Russia is 

(the report is supposed to be about Ukraine)

 

And then

 

There were also significant human rights issues involving Ukrainian government officials, although not comparable to the scope of Russia’s abuses, which included credible reports of: enforced disappearance; torture and cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment or punishment; harsh and life-threatening prison conditions; arbitrary arrest or detention; serious problems with the independence of the judiciary; restrictions on freedom of expression, including for members of the media, including violence or threats of violence against journalists, unjustified arrests or prosecutions of journalists, and censorship; serious restrictions on internet freedom; substantial interference with the freedoms of peaceful assembly and association; restrictions on freedom of movement; serious government corruption; extensive gender-based violence; systematic restrictions on workers’ freedom of association; and the existence of the worst forms of child labor. Some of these human rights issues stemmed from martial law, which continued to curtail democratic freedoms, including freedom of movement, freedom of the press, freedom of peaceful assembly, and legal protections.

The government often did not take adequate steps to identify and punish officials who may have committed abuses.

So what does this have to do with the topic?

More whataboutsomeoneelse!

[tgw]

2 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

I’m sure you know very well what these security concerns are. You just refuse to accept that they are valid, as far as Russia is concerned. It’s not unlike US’s concerns when missiles were being sent to Cuba.

 

America’s actions all round the world (military bases, troops in Kinmen etc) is leading the world down the road to another major conflict. This is plain to practically everyone, except for those who are too obtuse or arrogant.

 

Please explain very clearly.

Treat me as an alien who just landed on earth and wanted to understand "Ruzzia's security concerns" and how invading Ukraine alleviates them.

 

You are an enlightened poster who "did his own research" and aren't one of those people who would just parrot things and then not be able to explain them, right ?

[johng]

1 hour ago, jvs said:

So what does this have to do with the topic?

More whataboutsomeoneelse!

 

Its very pertinent  as many in this topic are suggesting that to support Ukraine

 is to support "freedom and democracy"   the US state department report  suggests that Ukraine is still a corrupt,undemocratic un-free country  committing many if not all the "crimes"  it accuses Russia of.

 

IMHO the support does not help Ukraine at all it helps the "military industrial complex" to carry on its never ending war  killing and maiming thousands of people Ukrainian and Russian alike, whilst  at the same time attempting to destabilize Russia and cause "regime change"   which has always worked out so well in the past !

 

The illegal sanctions on Russian overseas assets  has not worked Just pushed them to accelerate setting  up of alternative banking and currency  deals with BRICS  the global south and closer ties to China,the sabotage of the Nord stream gas pipeline hurt Germany/Europe much more than it hurt Russia (no Putin did not blow it up)

Russia has now said it will seize JP Morgan assets though they are tiny compared to the Russian US and European assets that they want to seize and send to "the most corrupt country in Europe".

And no I am not a Putin Puppet spouting Kremlin propaganda  just telling it as I see it.

 

P.S  did "we"  ever find Sadam Huseín's weapons of mass destruction ??? 

IE:  you shouldn't believe everything that "Uncle Sam" and his acolytes tell you.

 

 

[tgw]

39 minutes ago, johng said:

the US state department report  suggests that Ukraine is still a corrupt,undemocratic un-free country 

 

could you please highlight for me the parts of the report where it says Ukraine is undemocratic and "un-free" ?

[jas007]

Surely, people must know that the military industrial complex in the US is huge. Over the years, trillions of dollars change hands. Lots of money for corruption. And the merchants of war can afford to hire the best spin doctors on planet earth.  And they have. And, in conjunction with the help of their corporate media buddies, they demonize both Russia and Putin.  And the politicians are funded, of course.  And so we are all on the brink of nuclear annihilation, all so that some fat cats and some bankers can make big bucks.

[tgw]

3 minutes ago, jas007 said:

Surely, people must know that the military industrial complex in the US is huge. Over the years, trillions of dollars change hands. Lots of money for corruption. And the merchants of war can afford to hire the best spin doctors on planet earth.  And they have. And, in conjunction with the help of their corporate media buddies, they demonize both Russia and Putin.  And the politicians are funded, of course.  And so we are all on the brink of nuclear annihilation, all so that some fat cats and some bankers can make big bucks.

 

and another propagandist.

[Gweiloman]

18 hours ago, tgw said:

 

Please explain very clearly.

Treat me as an alien who just landed on earth and wanted to understand "Ruzzia's security concerns" and how invading Ukraine alleviates them.

 

You are an enlightened poster who "did his own research" and aren't one of those people who would just parrot things and then not be able to explain them, right ?

Do your own research or not, it doesn’t matter to me. By misspelling Russia, you have already shown your prejudice so no amount of explanation or proof will change your western view.

[Gweiloman]

20 hours ago, ChicagoExpat said:

It takes an incredible level of dishonesty to blame Russia's war of choice on any other country but Russia.

It takes an incredible amount of ignorance and denial to blame Russia 100% for this current conflict.

[Gweiloman]

It’s interesting how AN is a microcosm of the collective west. The majority of posters are anti-Russia and their posts are mostly bereft of facts. The narrative is spearheaded by some ‘profuse’ American posters (just look at the post count to see who posts almost twice as much as anyone else). Any dissenting voices (like Oban and Fico) are quickly shut down, their views drowned out by a cacophony of insults and ridicule. Typical US style bullying.

 

Europe is being irreparably destroyed by the poor leadership of NATO and they are too afraid and incompetent to do anything about it.The fact that they dare not get to the bottom of the NS sabotage shows to the world the real perpetrator of this attack. A real Stockholm syndrome if ever there’s one.

 

The amount of confused emojis this post will receive is further proof of the above. Nothing is factually wrong. I have included my own opinions which western values supposedly will fight to defend my right to have. And yet, my post will likely come in for criticism with the usual “gibberish, nonsense, rubbish” etc adjectives.

[Wobblybob]

19 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

It takes an incredible amount of ignorance and denial to blame Russia 100% for this current conflict.

Oh the irony. 😂😂😂😂

[Wobblybob]

1 minute ago, Gweiloman said:

It’s interesting how AN is a microcosm of the collective west. The majority of posters are anti-Russia and their posts are mostly bereft of facts. The narrative is spearheaded by some ‘profuse’ American posters (just look at the post count to see who posts almost twice as much as anyone else). Any dissenting voices (like Oban and Fico) are quickly shut down, their views drowned out by a cacophony of insults and ridicule. Typical US style bullying.

 

Europe is being irreparably destroyed by the poor leadership of NATO and they are too afraid and incompetent to do anything about it.The fact that they dare not get to the bottom of the NS sabotage shows to the world the real perpetrator of this attack. A real Stockholm syndrome if ever there’s one.

 

The amount of confused emojis this post will receive is further proof of the above. Nothing is factually wrong. I have included my own opinions which western values supposedly will fight to defend my right to have. And yet, my post will likely come in for criticism with the usual “gibberish, nonsense, rubbish” etc adjectives.

Gibberish hyperbolic nonsense, if you think other posters are going to take the word of a fantasist you grossly underestimate the intelligence of posters on here. You could start by including a link to your drivel and stop making things up, just because you say something is true, it does not make it so..... totally clueless!

[Bkk Brian]

5 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

It’s interesting how AN is a microcosm of the collective west. The majority of posters are anti-Russia and their posts are mostly bereft of facts. The narrative is spearheaded by some ‘profuse’ American posters (just look at the post count to see who posts almost twice as much as anyone else). Any dissenting voices (like Oban and Fico) are quickly shut down, their views drowned out by a cacophony of insults and ridicule. Typical US style bullying.

 

Europe is being irreparably destroyed by the poor leadership of NATO and they are too afraid and incompetent to do anything about it.The fact that they dare not get to the bottom of the NS sabotage shows to the world the real perpetrator of this attack. A real Stockholm syndrome if ever there’s one.

 

The amount of confused emojis this post will receive is further proof of the above. Nothing is factually wrong. I have included my own opinions which western values supposedly will fight to defend my right to have. And yet, my post will likely come in for criticism with the usual “gibberish, nonsense, rubbish” etc adjectives.

The narrative is spearheaded by some ‘profuse’ American posters (just look at the post count to see who posts almost twice as much as anyone else)

 

Really? I believe you have no clue what nationality most posters here are.

 

7 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

 and their posts are mostly bereft of facts.

 

That's called projection

[tgw]

39 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

Do your own research or not, it doesn’t matter to me. By misspelling Russia, you have already shown your prejudice so no amount of explanation or proof will change your western view.

 

I didn't misspell :

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Ruzzia

 

your inability to explain what, according to you, "everybody knows" means that this is all a hollow argument of yours.

 

you don't even need your so-called "proof" for making your point about the security concerns. a simple logical explanation would suffice, but there is none and you know it.

 

P.S.

"Ruzzia" designates the Ruzzian fascist state, Putin and his supporters.

 

I have several friends hailing from Russia, which is a different country. They are courageous, generous and believe in freedom and democracy.

[ChicagoExpat]

2 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

It takes an incredible amount of ignorance and denial to blame Russia 100% for this current conflict.

And yet, somehow this exculpatory knowledge is available only to Russians and the useful idiots who so loyally support them.  It's almost as if Russia hadn't invaded it's neighbors over and over again before this latest invasion.  The wonderful part of it is simps like you would hate living in the world that Russia is trying to create, and would if they could.

[ChicagoExpat]

10 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

You guys are so predictable it’s sad 😁

Consistency isn't a defect when you're right.  And are you any less predictable in your support of Putin?

[ChicagoExpat]

18 hours ago, jas007 said:

Surely, people must know that the military industrial complex in the US is huge. Over the years, trillions of dollars change hands. Lots of money for corruption. And the merchants of war can afford to hire the best spin doctors on planet earth.  And they have. And, in conjunction with the help of their corporate media buddies, they demonize both Russia and Putin.  And the politicians are funded, of course.  And so we are all on the brink of nuclear annihilation, all so that some fat cats and some bankers can make big bucks.

One of the most wonderful aspects of the pro-Putin camp is how they continuously claim that the world is in great danger... but NOT from the country who actually has started the biggest war in Europe since 1945 that has cost the lives of hundreds of thousands.  That country somehow doesn't even come into the conversation, and in the rare occasions it does, it's to justify their invasion by claiming they had no choice.

[tgw]

17 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

You guys are so predictable it’s sad 😁

 

so, what are Ruzzia's "security concerns" that withstand a logical analysis ?

[jas007]

3 hours ago, ChicagoExpat said:

One of the most wonderful aspects of the pro-Putin camp is how they continuously claim that the world is in great danger... but NOT from the country who actually has started the biggest war in Europe since 1945 that has cost the lives of hundreds of thousands.  That country somehow doesn't even come into the conversation, and in the rare occasions it does, it's to justify their invasion by claiming they had no choice.

The USA has been trying to provoke Russia for years.  But for CIA and State Department meddling, none of this would have happened the way it did.  Look up Victoria Nuland. They have her scheming on a taped phone call. So yes, the biggest danger to the world. How some people seem to think that WW III would be a good idea escapes me.  Where are the responsible adults?  
 

 

[GroveHillWanderer]

23 minutes ago, jas007 said:

The USA has been trying to provoke Russia for years.  But for CIA and State Department meddling, none of this would have happened the way it did.  Look up Victoria Nuland. They have her scheming on a taped phone call. So yes, the biggest danger to the world. How some people seem to think that WW III would be a good idea escapes me.  Where are the responsible adults?  

Just read a transcript of the Victoria Nuland tape. She clearly wanted Ukraine to become/remain more Western-oriented and not to be controlled by Russia. 

 

Shock, horror!

 

What would you have expected her to say - that she'd rather have Ukraine fall into Russia's orbit?

[Mavideol]

US accuses Russia of using a chemical weapon against Ukrainian forces

https://au.yahoo.com/news/us-accuses-russia-using-chemical-003632121.html

[Mavideol]

US hits China with sweeping sanctions over support for Russia’s war in Ukraine

https://au.yahoo.com/news/us-hits-china-sweeping-sanctions-062147624.html

[Mike_Hunt]

On 5/1/2024 at 12:57 AM, Gweiloman said:

I’m sure you know very well what these security concerns are. You just refuse to accept that they are valid, as far as Russia is concerned. It’s not unlike US’s concerns when missiles were being sent to Cuba.

 

America’s actions all round the world (military bases, troops in Kinmen etc) is leading the world down the road to another major conflict. This is plain to practically everyone, except for those who are too obtuse or arrogant.

I reject this narrative.  Putin wants the USSR back. 

[Mike_Hunt]

7 hours ago, tgw said:

 

so, what are Ruzzia's "security concerns" that withstand a logical analysis ?

Russia's "security concerns" are the failure of the 10 war that is headed towards year three, and the war economy wrecking their civilian economy.