Assault on Kiev: Russian helicopters swoop above Ukraine's capital

[Salerno]

"The hundreds of thousands of Russians who fled the country over the past year have not staged any major anti-war rallies while in exile, despite no longer being subject to draconian Kremlin restrictions”

 

I don't particularly find that surprising. Two main reasons:

1) they aren't exactly get the best of reception in various countries and likely just wanting to keep their heads down, and

2) unless an orphan, doing so could be detrimental to the health of loved one left behind (brothers, sisters, parents, extended family etc.).

 

Of course there's also the cohort that believe in Putin's war but don't have the balls to actually fight for there conviction.

 

As much as I would have loved them to stay behind and protest or even more, it's far easier to have those feelings from outside than actually act on them from inside.

 

 

[ExpatOilWorker]

12 minutes ago, Salerno said:

"The hundreds of thousands of Russians who fled the country over the past year have not staged any major anti-war rallies while in exile, despite no longer being subject to draconian Kremlin restrictions”

 

I don't particularly find that surprising. Two main reasons:

1) they aren't exactly get the best of reception in various countries and likely just wanting to keep their heads down, and

2) unless an orphan, doing so could be detrimental to the health of loved one left behind (brothers, sisters, parents, extended family etc.).

 

Of course there's also the cohort that believe in Putin's war but don't have the balls to actually fight for there conviction.

 

As much as I would have loved them to stay behind and protest or even more, it's far easier to have those feelings from outside than actually act on them from inside.

 

 

True, but you also don't see Russians voicing their anti-war feelings on anonymous Internet platforms ????. 

Silently, many Russians probably feel that Russia deserve international respect as a great nation.

[Salerno]

14 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

True, but you also don't see Russians voicing their anti-war feelings on anonymous Internet platforms

I don't frequent that many so I'll take your word for it.

 

15 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Silently, many Russians probably feel that Russia deserve international respect as a great nation.

Not even that silently. Many appear to have drunk a hell of a lot of their version of Kool-Aid.

[Mavideol]

27 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

True, but you also don't see Russians voicing their anti-war feelings on anonymous Internet platforms ????. 

Silently, many Russians probably feel that Russia deserve international respect as a great nation.

heard many ways of people referring to Russia but never heard anybody call them a "great nation"

[billyo]

Interesting article in the Spectator by the author of Overreach: The Inside Story of Putin’s War Against Ukraine. who seems to assert there will never be NATO boots on the ground in Ukraine and all the players know that. How long before we a negotiated peace is anybody's guess.

 

Zelensky is also in a far more precarious position than his current popularity suggests. He has promised his people total victory, and polls say that close to 90 per cent of voters believe him. Failing to deliver would be politically fatal. 

 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/one-year-on-how-will-the-ukraine-war-end/

 

Edited February 3, 2023 by Black Ops
Post cropped inline with 'fair use' policy.

[billyo]

6 hours ago, bannork said:

RT panellists deride Trump's claim to stop the war in 24 hours.

 

 

The thing is never underestimate Trump. If he stays in the fight and could get the Republican nomination ,he will make it the dirtiest fight ever and can stand against another candidate if he fails as a spoiling candidate. So if it was Trump / Biden and Biden is even more decrepit in 2 years and the economy was in the doldrums I could see him winning again, even on a world peace ticket which could attract some faltering Dems/ leftists. He's 4/1 atm in 3rd place.

 

https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/us-politics/us-presidential-election-2024/winner

[thaibeachlovers]

14 minutes ago, billyo said:

Interesting article in the Spectator by the author of Overreach: The Inside Story of Putin’s War Against Ukraine. who seems to assert there will never be NATO boots on the ground in Ukraine and all the players know that. How long before we a negotiated peace is anybody's guess.

 

Hopefully no NATO member is MAD enough to send troops there.

 

The negotiated peace will happen when the US stops supplying the arms and ammunition, which could be sooner than expected if the GOP won't cave on raising the debt ceiling without a cut in military spending.

[ExpatOilWorker]

37 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

heard many ways of people referring to Russia but never heard anybody call them a "great nation"

In many ways historically Russia is a great nation, not only in size bit also cultural, literature, science, sports engineering and chess. If you could hit the reset botton in 1917 and insert a western style government,  we would all play second fiddle to Russia today.

With the current leadership everything in Russia ???????? is sh!t, except of course..... p!ss!

[rudi49jr]

14 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Hopefully no NATO member is MAD enough to send troops there.

 

The negotiated peace will happen when the US stops supplying the arms and ammunition, which could be sooner than expected if the GOP won't cave on raising the debt ceiling without a cut in military spending.

Maybe the negotiated peace will actually happen, who knows. But then next year Russia is going to want to take the rest of Ukraine. And the year after that the Baltics. And then Poland. And so on and so forth. So a negotiated peace is not a viable solution.

The only solution is to defeat Russia, and to make damned sure they will think twice before trying to invade a neighboring country again for no reason. 

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, rudi49jr said:

Maybe the negotiated peace will actually happen, who knows. But then next year Russia is going to want to take the rest of Ukraine. And the year after that the Baltics. And then Poland. And so on and so forth. So a negotiated peace is not a viable solution.

The only solution is to defeat Russia, and to make damned sure they will think twice before trying to invade a neighboring country again for no reason. 

Given the thrashing the Russians have taken already, IMO they may be able to achieve stalemate and negotiate to keep the east and Crimea ( assuming Ukraine keeps getting weapons and munitions, though I can't see that happening indefinitely ), but I can't see them being able to do what you claim.

 

If the west runs out of political will to impoverish it's own citizens to support Ukraine, IMO it's game over for Ukraine and they'll be lucky to keep what they still have.

 

BTW Poland is in NATO so that's not going to happen without MAD.

[nauseus]

5 hours ago, LosLobo said:

"All Trump wanted was for NATO members to contribute the 2% "?

 

Yet at a later NATO "summit meeting, he (Trump) surprised the leaders by demanding 4 percent — a move that would essentially put the goal out of reach for many alliance members

I would suggest that his end game was to withdraw from NATO as was his playbook with other US partnerships/agreements. 

"The president has repeatedly and publicly challenged or withdrawn from a number of military and economic partnerships, from the Paris climate accord to an Asia-Pacific trade pact".

 

"He has questioned the United States’ military alliance with South Korea and Japan, and he has announced a withdrawal of American troops from Syria without first consulting allies in the American-led coalition to defeat the Islamic State".

 

Obviously, this was part of Putin's plan for the US to become isolationist, as it was before WWII.

 

Also,  it was the reason for sponsoring Trump in the 2016 and 2020 US Elections and for continuing to do so.

 

Trump Discussed Pulling U.S. From NATO, Aides Say Amid New Concerns Over Russia - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

I can't open your link but never mind.

 

Trump did not demand 4% but he did suggest it.

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-nato-summit-trump-spending-idAFKBN1K12C0

 

He also warned Germany not to become over-reliant on Russian gas.

 

As we can see now, both were good ideas and both would not have made Putin happy!

[rudi49jr]

29 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Given the thrashing the Russians have taken already, IMO they may be able to achieve stalemate and negotiate to keep the east and Crimea ( assuming Ukraine keeps getting weapons and munitions, though I can't see that happening indefinitely ), but I can't see them being able to do what you claim.

 

If the west runs out of political will to impoverish it's own citizens to support Ukraine, IMO it's game over for Ukraine and they'll be lucky to keep what they still have.

 

BTW Poland is in NATO so that's not going to happen without MAD.

I think it’s quite clear that Putin and his clique live on another planet, in a totally different ‘reality’, so there’s no telling what they will do. IMO, any negotiated peace with Russia won’t be worth the paper it’s written on, since Russia has proven that it simply can not be trusted. If not by attacking Poland or the Baltics, they will want to find another way to screw things up for the West. It’s what they have been doing for years already, and they won’t stop. 

[Bkk Brian]

2 hours ago, billyo said:

Interesting article in the Spectator by the author of Overreach: The Inside Story of Putin’s War Against Ukraine. who seems to assert there will never be NATO boots on the ground in Ukraine and all the players know that. How long before we a negotiated peace is anybody's guess.

 

Zelensky is also in a far more precarious position than his current popularity suggests. He has promised his people total victory, and polls say that close to 90 per cent of voters believe him. Failing to deliver would be politically fatal. 

 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/one-year-on-how-will-the-ukraine-war-end/

 

Don't need NATO boots on the ground, whatever gave you that notion?

[Bkk Brian]

Putin may have overestimated the Russian military’s own capabilities again, as ISW previously assessed

ISW has not observed any evidence that Russian forces have restored sufficient combat power to defeat Ukraine’s forces in eastern Ukraine and capture over 11,300 square kilometers of unoccupied Donetsk Oblast (over 42 percent of Donetsk Oblast’s total area) before March as Putin reportedly ordered. ISW previously assessed that a major Russian offensive before April 2023 would likely prematurely culminate during the April spring rain season (if not before) before achieving operationally significant effects.[7] Russian forces’ culmination could then generate favorable conditions for Ukrainian forces to exploit in their own late spring or summer 2023 counteroffensive after incorporating Western tank deliveries.

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-february-2-2023

[billyo]

8 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Don't need NATO boots on the ground, whatever gave you that notion?

The author suggests that in the run up to the invasion which General Milley accurately predicted he offered a menu of options which would prevent WW3 whilst fully backing support for the rules based world order.

 

Indeed Biden offered to get him out if he wanted but Zelensky famously said I don't need a ride I need ammo. At the moment the US is fulfilling a whole load of aims at minimal cost. Degrading Russian military capability and exposing their war time strategies without a single drop of US blood shed. Secondly uniting NATO and beginning active western rearmament and a consequential increase in defence spending exposing strategic weaknesses.

 

Sadly, I feel in the end, like many countries before them Ukraine will be betrayed by it's allies after shedding much blood and treasure. What seems increasingly likely is Russia is prepared to take huge losses in life and economic hit, has a populace that seems to acquiesce in this (but in reality has no choice - accept or leave) and is determined to punish Ukraine for the temerity at wanting to leave the Russians sphere of influence and has gone for total war mobilization. There just isn't the appetite in the democratic west for this fight on those terms in the same way there was for the fight say against Nazi Germany.

 

Milley offered four possible answers: ‘No. 1: Don’t have a kinetic conflict between the US military or Nato with Russia. No. 2: Contain war inside the geographical boundaries of Ukraine. No. 3: Strengthen and maintain Nato unity. No. 4: Empower Ukraine and give them the means to fight.’

[Bkk Brian]

3 minutes ago, billyo said:

The author suggests that in the run up to the invasion which General Milley accurately predicted he offered a menu of options which would prevent WW3 whilst fully backing support for the rules based world order.

 

Indeed Biden offered to get him out if he wanted but Zelensky famously said I don't need a ride I need ammo. At the moment the US is fulfilling a whole load of aims at minimal cost. Degrading Russian military capability and exposing their war time strategies without a single drop of US blood shed. Secondly uniting NATO and beginning active western rearmament and a consequential increase in defence spending exposing strategic weaknesses.

 

Sadly, I feel in the end, like many countries before them Ukraine will be betrayed by it's allies after shedding much blood and treasure. What seems increasingly likely is Russia is prepared to take huge losses in life and economic hit, has a populace that seems to acquiesce in this (but in reality has no choice - accept or leave) and is determined to punish Ukraine for the temerity at wanting to leave the Russians sphere of influence and has gone for total war mobilization. There just isn't the appetite in the democratic west for this fight on those terms in the same way there was for the fight say against Nazi Germany.

 

Milley offered four possible answers: ‘No. 1: Don’t have a kinetic conflict between the US military or Nato with Russia. No. 2: Contain war inside the geographical boundaries of Ukraine. No. 3: Strengthen and maintain Nato unity. No. 4: Empower Ukraine and give them the means to fight.’

You may not have noticed but the Ukraine military along with aid from not just the US is doing very well reclaiming the land that Russia invaded and illegally annexed, without the need for NATO boots on the ground.

 

Will peace talks end this, of course, we all know that but not while Russia still holds so much territory that is clear.

[Rimmer]

Off topic posts and replies about the Chinese balloon over the US have been removed.

 

Did you not see this topic is about the war in Ukraine, this is trolling DONT DO IT!!

 

 

 

[bannork]

It seems that some Russians do care.

 

[Social Media]

The US says additional military aid to Ukraine worth $2.2bn (£1.83bn) will include long-range missiles capable of doubling its attack range.

It brings the total amount of military aid given to Ukraine to more than $29.3bn (£24.31bn) since February 2022.

The package includes ground-launched small-diameter bombs (GLSDB) which can hit targets 150km (93 miles) away.

But officials refused to be drawn on speculation that the munitions could be used to attack parts of annexed Crimea.

"When it comes to Ukrainian plans on operations, clearly that is their decision," Pentagon spokesperson Brig Gen Pat Ryder told reporters.

"This gives them a longer-range capability, long-range fires capability, that will enable them, again, to conduct operations in defence of their country and take back their sovereign territory, Russian-occupied areas."

[Social Media]

 

[tgw]

29 minutes ago, Black Ops said:

 

it's not really relevant if Western tanks are there or not for the Ruzzian spring offensive. Leopards are an offensive weapon, if they were to stay mostly static in defense, they would get destroyed one by one. Their role is different.

[rudi49jr]

8 hours ago, bannork said:

It seems that some Russians do care.

 

Many Russians are apparently brainwashed into believing the regime’s outrageous propaganda. They have, after all, a long history of state propaganda and brutal oppression.
I do think, however, that many Russians do care, but they’re just afraid. I’m not sure I’d be man enough to speak my mind if that could cause me to land in jail for up to 15 years. Or worse. 

Edited February 4, 2023 by rudi49jr

[SunnyinBangrak]

On 2/3/2023 at 6:48 AM, bannork said:

RT panellists deride Trump's claim to stop the war in 24 hours.

 

 

One of the only voices calling for negotiated peace and an end to the war. Thank you Trump, on the right side of an issue as usual.

[rudi49jr]

17 minutes ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

One of the only voices calling for negotiated peace and an end to the war. Thank you Trump, on the right side of an issue as usual.

You MAGA guys really crack me up, praising Trump who continues to take credit for things he has/had absolutely nothing to do with. A negotiated peace will just be a temporary end to the war, because Putin and his cronies have been very clear that they won’t stop. You can not negotiate with psychopathic and megalomaniacal bullies.

[Saanim]

2 hours ago, rudi49jr said:

Many Russians are apparently brainwashed into believing the regime’s outrageous propaganda. They have, after all, a long history of state propaganda and brutal oppression.
I do think, however, that many Russians do care, but they’re just afraid. I’m not sure I’d be man enough to speak my mind if that could cause me to land in jail for up to 15 years. Or worse. 

Are you imagining that the Russians are for ages bolted 24/7 to their TV 's, massaged by something like you know what's coming out of MSNCBCCNNFOX, you name it? If you are imagining so, where did you get this imagination from?

 

Unless you have got it from your first-hand experience, you must got it from somewhere that surely would not lie to you, would they?  

 

Then, the consideration of this fact can give you a second thought: where actually is the "propaganda"? 

 

[tgw]

5 minutes ago, Saanim said:

Are you imagining that the Russians are for ages bolted 24/7 to their TV 's, massaged by something like you know what's coming out of MSNCBCCNNFOX, you name it? If you are imagining so, where did you get this imagination from?

 

Unless you have got it from your first-hand experience, you must got it from somewhere that surely would not lie to you, would they?  

 

Then, the consideration of this fact can give you a second thought: where actually is the "propaganda"?

I know first hand that most older Russians are indeed bolted to their TV, and also that Perve Kanal, Rossiya Adin, RTR, Match 24, Rossiya 24, NTV, TNT, etc. spew out lies and Putin propaganda 24/7.

Years ago, they also had a lot of pseudoscience broadcasts making retarded claims, with many people believing them.

In Russia, the TV often just runs, most commonly in the living room of course, but often also in the kitchen, just to provide a background noise.

 

here is a youtube channel for you:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoAw0n5OyITkmejSCMfmnWg

 

why do you again promote a false narrative, this time pretending there is no actual propaganda in Ruzzia ? 

[rudi49jr]

11 minutes ago, Saanim said:

Are you imagining that the Russians are for ages bolted 24/7 to their TV 's, massaged by something like you know what's coming out of MSNCBCCNNFOX, you name it? If you are imagining so, where did you get this imagination from?

 

Unless you have got it from your first-hand experience, you must got it from somewhere that surely would not lie to you, would they?  

 

Then, the consideration of this fact can give you a second thought: where actually is the "propaganda"? 

 

“where actually is the "propaganda"? “

 

Just switch on RT. Or whenever Putin or one of his cronies says something.

 

There have been plenty of polls in Russia which show that somewhere between 50 to 80% of the people believe the lies and BS they are told on a daily basis by Russian state media and their pundits. I would call that successful propaganda, wouldn’t you?

 

My own experience with something similar is that, a long time ago, I had a Czech girlfriend, who had fled then Czechoslovakia with her family at the end of the 1970’s, when she was 10 years old. Later her parents told her that, back when they were still in Czechoslovakia, they had been very careful not to discuss any ‘sensitive’ topics in front of their children, for fear that one of them would inadvertently say something about that in school or to a friend. Which would lead to a visit by the secret police and possibly detention or being locked up in a mental institution.

I imagine things were not much better in the USSR. I also imagine this is the kind of state that Putin and his henchmen are very much longing to return to. 

 

 

 

[rudi49jr]

Germany has evidence of war crimes in Ukraine 'in three-digit range' - prosecutor.

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/germany-has-evidence-war-crimes-ukraine-in-three-digit-range-prosecutor-2023-02-04/
 

I’m guessing they will soon be ‘in the four-digit-range’, since there’s a mountain of evidence still to go through. 

[Bkk Brian]

https://twitter.com/DefenceHQ/status/1621827200503750656

 

[Social Media]

The bodies of two British volunteers killed in eastern Ukraine in January have been recovered as part of a prisoner swap with Russia.

President Volodymyr Zelensky's chief of staff said the bodies of Chris Parry, 28, and Andrew Bagshaw, 47, had now been returned to Ukraine.

No indication has been given as to when they will be handed to British embassy staff to be flown home.

The families of the men said they were killed during a humanitarian rescue.

The two volunteers were last seen heading to the city of Soledar on 6 January.

Mr Bagshaw's family said the pair were attempting to help an elderly woman when their cars were hit by a shell.