English signage tax

[recom273]

The wife has taken a little shop to sell her second hand clothing in a row surrounding our local village market, she is doing ok, considering she would just be sitting on her backside at home, but it’s not a fortune. It’s nice to get her out of my hair tbh.
 

She came home tonight, she wasn’t there, but everyone in the shop row were fuming because the local authority visited and assessed their vinyl signs, they tried to take 4-6 thousand per vinyl sign. She mentioned that someone warned her if she had English language on her sign it would cost more. Some of them were presented bills for 10-15K, instead they rolled the signs up and told them to do one.

 

The penny dropped, I think I read this before on the forum, does anyone have any more details? She hasn’t paid any key money for the shop, she’s using the shop from a friend but the local authority have been sniffing around - with a daily fee, monthly rent, key money and now the signage tax, it’s not worth staying open. 
 

Any advice or insight welcome.

[soi3eddie]

Yes there is an extra fee for signage in English. A friend had same issue with shop for his Mrs. Don't know what it cost but sure someone here may have first hand experience and advice.

 

[digbeth]

All Thai signage is cheapest, like around 5 baht per 500sqare centimeters

Bi-lingual with Thai above the foreign language is the middle ground of 20baht per 500sq cm, hence you'll see English sign with small Thai written above in the corner to qualify,

otherwise the all foreign language sign is like 50 baht per 500sq cm

[blackcab]

March is the month sign tax must be paid by. It's an easy win for the District Office.

 

The tax rates were recently increased:

 

Signboards with Thai language only: 5 baht per 500 cm²

 

Signboards with a combination of Thai/foreign language and/or pictures/markings: 26 baht per 500 cm²

 

Non-Thai Signboard: 50 baht per 500 cm²

 

Foreign language Signboard with Thai located below the foreign language portion: 40 baht per 500 cm²

 

What some companies do (such as Starbucks), if possible, is put the sign inside the building. Perhaps on the inside of the window, and illuminated.

 

Sign tax only applies to external advertising...

[Mikeheo]

Look at any signs for big businesses, you'll notice the ones that are in English have the name in Thai in a tiny size usually at the top right. They all do that to reduce their bill, it sounds crazy but you'll see it everywhere if you start looking.

[recom273]

1 hour ago, blackcab said:

March is the month sign tax must be paid by. It's an easy win for the District Office.

 

The tax rates were recently increased:

 

Signboards with Thai language only: 5 baht per 500 cm²

 

Signboards with a combination of Thai/foreign language and/or pictures/markings: 26 baht per 500 cm²

 

Non-Thai Signboard: 50 baht per 500 cm²

 

Foreign language Signboard with Thai located below the foreign language portion: 40 baht per 500 cm²

 

What some companies do (such as Starbucks), if possible, is put the sign inside the building. Perhaps on the inside of the window, and illuminated.

 

Sign tax only applies to external advertising...

This is amazing knowledge - thanks guys.

 

Maybe this sounds like a shakedown, the shop next to the wife has some kind of vinyl inside the shop and they said they wanted to tax those, tbh, I keep away from the place, I haven’t taken much notice about the vinyl signs but the assessments handed out were way over 80B/M sq. 
 

I think my wife has about 160B worth, not the end of the world.
 

 

[Sydebolle]

Had a row with the local government yocals on the issue with a restaurant we had back in the days. 

Our light boxes were 100% on our offload parking facility and they wanted tax money for the Thai (writing in very small letters in the upper right corner) and four times the amount for the bigger English wording. A normal light box on the car park (owned by us) or street lamps on our property go free and so goes any signs - provided it is entirely on your property. 

Other signs go at a Thai rate with a 100% surcharge for English letters. That explains, i.e. the street signs of Honda with five light boxes (one for every letter). The tiny small caption in the upper right corner though says "Honda" as a complete word - in Thai. 

Yet another Thai way of circumventing yet another racist law in the land of the semi-divine .......  

[tonray]

How ridiculous, while the government mandates all schools must teach English and the to interface with the rest of the world Thais are woefully behind their neighbors in proficiency, let's charge people extra for using the English language. Maybe they can start with installing recorders in all farang homes, 25 Satang per English word muttered (even in disgust)

[Tropicalevo]

20 minutes ago, Sydebolle said:

Yet another Thai way of circumventing yet another racist law in the land of the semi-divine .......  

It is not just Thai.

It is similar in some other SE Asian countries. Cambodia for one.

[Surasak]

We have an LED sign running in both Thai and English affixed under a light box with Thai lettering. Its been up for almost 10 years and never been asked for any tax. We also have a coloured picture sign 6' X 2'6". Again, never asked for tax.

I do remember some years back it being suggested hotels would be charged if the price was shown, but it was never imposed on us.

[StevieAus]

9 minutes ago, tonray said:

How ridiculous, while the government mandates all schools must teach English and the to interface with the rest of the world Thais are woefully behind their neighbors in proficiency, let's charge people extra for using the English language. Maybe they can start with installing recorders in all farang homes, 25 Satang per English word muttered (even in disgust)

As this tax is levied by the equivalent of the local council   I see it as another excuse to raise money which doesn’t affect the majority of locals.

We built a block of apartments about seven years ago and named them “Sumalee Apartments” after our daughter and got hit with the tax.

When you compare the taxes you pay with Western standards I don’t see it as a big deal.

[tonray]

Just now, StevieAus said:

As this tax is levied by the equivalent of the local council   I see it as another excuse to raise money which doesn’t affect the majority of locals.

We built a block of apartments about seven years ago and named them “Sumalee Apartments” after our daughter and got hit with the tax.

When you compare the taxes you pay with Western standards I don’t see it as a big deal.

As far as the $$$ I agree...but in a country where English proficiency is desired, why punish people for trying to support the International standard ?

[Farma]

Recently had the local team visit with tape measures in hand.

 

I drew the line when one woman entered the premises trying to measure English signs inside.

 

When challenged she said she can tax them.

 

She backed down when shown para 8.5 of the Thai version of the attached file.

810238_0001(1).pdf

[StevieAus]

2 minutes ago, tonray said:

As far as the $$$ I agree...but in a country where English proficiency is desired, why punish people for trying to support the International standard ?

I see it as just another way for governments to raise money.

You can add it to the list.

Cost of retirement extensions etc

Re entry permits

Higher costs to enter parks etc

Currently Non Thais require Health Insurance to re enter the country.

I gave up being concerned years ago and put it down to the requirement to live here.

As I believe they say in parts of England.

“ You like it or you lump it “

[tonray]

7 minutes ago, StevieAus said:

I see it as just another way for governments to raise money.

You can add it to the list.

Cost of retirement extensions etc

Re entry permits

Higher costs to enter parks etc

Currently Non Thais require Health Insurance to re enter the country.

I gave up being concerned years ago and put it down to the requirement to live here.

As I believe they say in parts of England.

“ You like it or you lump it “

yes.. but this is applicable to both foreigners and Thais.. really a tax on using English not on foreigners per se. 

[Whale]

Well this thread has shocked me. I never knew any of this. Shocked.

[tonray]

13 minutes ago, Whale said:

Well this thread has shocked me. I never knew any of this. Shocked.

That will be 50 baht for posting in English...payable at local IO next visit

[lopburi3]

11 hours ago, recom273 said:

they tried to take 4-6 thousand per vinyl sign

 

8 hours ago, recom273 said:

I think my wife has about 160B worth, not the end of the world.

Does not compute.

[blackcab]

Sign tax isn't racist, because it doesn't discriminate on the basis of race.

 

Consider that signs written in Thai/Mandarin (of which there are many in places such as Bangkok) are taxed at the same rate as a Thai/English sign.

 

It's not just Thai/English, it's Thai/any foreign language.

[patman30]

get your sign printed on both sides of an XXXL tshirt (or a flag)
and hang it up outside with price tag of 5000 baht.

[Grusa]

Can they please double the tax for bad spelling and/or grammar/usage?

[yeahbutif]

Why is Thailand so backwards in Coming forward.....

[Whale]

1 hour ago, blackcab said:

Sign tax isn't racist, because it doesn't discriminate on the basis of race.

 

Consider that signs written in Thai/Mandarin (of which there are many in places such as Bangkok) are taxed at the same rate as a Thai/English sign.

 

It's not just Thai/English, it's Thai/any foreign language.

I agree, it is not racist, the R word is bandied about by many where it does not apply.

 

_______________________

 

I am trying to get my head around why it is so though. The only thing I can think of is that if you are seen to have a foreign clientele then you are assumed to be making higher profits (because you are overcharging them?) therefore can afford more tax. So is it a form of discrimination on the basis of not being Thai? Or a policy supporting xenophobia or a policy promoting the use of the Thai language for Thai shoppers? Is it a form of double pricing? One could argue that it is not because a Thai business owner is paying the additional charge but then is it promoting Thai businesses that have foreign custom to overcharge them compared to Thais to cover additional tax liabilities?

 

Is it just another example of how foreigners and foreign income are considered by the government? A fat cow to be milked daily.

 

My mind is blown.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[recom273]

4 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

 

Does not compute.

Don't trouble yourself - She hadn't opened her shop, when she arrived the local government just visited and the people in the shops surrounding the market were threatened with these bills. My wife has a little flag on a pole, maybe 1-1.5M

 

4 hours ago, Whale said:

Well this thread has shocked me. I never knew any of this. Shocked.

It's not just this tax - So, someone she knows has this little shop, its just four concrete posts, a tin roof and chain link fence for a wall. It's in a market, in a dusty village about 20km from Khon Kaen city, most customers are village people buying their daily vegetables.

 

She pays the owner 300B a month for the half of the shop, the other half is the owners second hand clothes, the shop has been closed for some time. Because she is sub-letting, this isn't technically allowed and the market inspectors have already been around asking to see the owner and suggesting my wife needs to pay key money, which would probably be around 50K - on top she pays 25B per day that she's open. Now this tax - it seems like the local government have their hands out in every turn and provide nothing. 

 

So far the owner came and gave the officials the finger when they mentioned the key money, there isnt enough money in the job to warrant that kind of investment and the shop has been closed for a year or so, due to covid - whatever language the sign is in, people in the shops are seriously angry, there is no money to be made by these folks, let alone take more money in another BS tax.

[RocketDog]

3 hours ago, patman30 said:

get your sign printed on both sides of an XXXL tshirt (or a flag)
and hang it up outside with price tag of 5000 baht.

That's actually a very clever idea. I wouldn't be surprised if you sold a few shirts that way too!

[patman30]

32 minutes ago, RocketDog said:

That's actually a very clever idea. I wouldn't be surprised if you sold a few shirts that way too!

yeh going by the act posted above
there can be no tax for signs/logos on merchandise
the other option is to dress up a dog or buffalo and have them outside the shop????

[patman30]

55 minutes ago, recom273 said:

My wife has a little flag on a pole, maybe 1-1.5M

tell her to put a price tag on it, so it "merchandise for sale"????

[StevieAus]

3 hours ago, tonray said:

yes.. but this is applicable to both foreigners and Thais.. really a tax on using English not on foreigners per se. 

To be frank I gave up years ago trying to apply Western logic to the decision making process in Thailand.

I still believe it’s only a money raising grab as it’s the local Tessaban ( municipality) who administer and collect the tax and they have nothing to do with the education system.

We know the local Mayor quite well and my wife has family members who work in that area so as you have sparked my interest will try and find out more and advise.

[blackcab]

For those that struggle to understand the logic of sign tax, perhaps it might help if you view the sign tax in its historical context.

 

The sign tax law was promulgated in 1967. In that time the Communist Party of Thailand was strong, with its own military wing, the People's Liberation Army of Thailand. The PLAoT were armed and carried out multiple assassinations, and even at some points openly engaging the Thai military.

 

There was also a communist radio station called the Voice of the People of Thailand that broadcasted from Yunnan in Southern China.

 

The CPoT heavily subscribed to Chinese communism, so perhaps you can begin to see that the sign tax was originally intended to promote nationalism and unity by discouraging Chinese advertisements.

 

It really had nothing to do with the English language. Consider that in 1966, U.S. President Lyndon B. Johnson became the first U.S. President to visit the Kingdom of Thailand, which can be seen in this video.

 

The following year in 1967 King Bhumibol Adulyadej The Great undertook a state visit to the U.S.

 

I hope this puts sign tax in perspective.

[DaLa]

6 hours ago, Whale said:

I agree, it is not racist, the R word is bandied about by many where it does not apply.

 

_______________________

 

I am trying to get my head around why it is so though. The only thing I can think of is that if you are seen to have a foreign clientele then you are assumed to be making higher profits (because you are overcharging them?) therefore can afford more tax. So is it a form of discrimination on the basis of not being Thai? Or a policy supporting xenophobia or a policy promoting the use of the Thai language for Thai shoppers? Is it a form of double pricing? One could argue that it is not because a Thai business owner is paying the additional charge but then is it promoting Thai businesses that have foreign custom to overcharge them compared to Thais to cover additional tax liabilities?

 

Is it just another example of how foreigners and foreign income are considered by the government? A fat cow to be milked daily.

 

My mind is blown.

 

 

6,500 baht a year for this one and extra for other signs in English and Thai at the entrance.  99% Thai customers and we have English signs because our stock is English Antiques. 46,000 baht for the land tax , so it's not cheap operating here , but a fraction of what it would cost in the UK with Business Rates.