Pattaya: Russians staying in holiday condos and eating economically - restaurants at resort suffering

[Leaver]

20 minutes ago, impulse said:

It's not just the numbers.  There's more data showing they spend more per head, too. 

 

My Chinese GF came to Thailand with a shopping list from her friends of stuff to bring back.  Heavy on cosmetics and Thai delicacies like dried fruit and nuts.  That matches my experience in the airport check-in where they're loaded with goodies and trying to get it all on the plane, minimizing excess baggage fees.

 

Cater to that, and vendors can do quite well.  Treat them like Western or Russky tourists, and vendors be griping an' moaning.

 

Same old story.

 

The Chinese simply set up a cosmetics and dried fruit and nut business, employing 300 baht a day Thai's. 

 

The Chinese tour operators are paid a commission to bring the Chinese tour groups to the Chinese owned establishments, and the profits are repatriated back to China. 

 

All Thailand can boast about is the numbers flying in, whilst the profits are flying out.  

[impulse]

15 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

Same old story.

 

The Chinese simply set up a cosmetics and dried fruit and nut business, employing 300 baht a day Thai's. 

 

The Chinese tour operators are paid a commission to bring the Chinese tour groups to the Chinese owned establishments, and the profits are repatriated back to China. 

 

All Thailand can boast about is the numbers flying in, whilst the profits are flying out.  

Sure, a lot of that goes on with the noobs on tour groups.  But repeat Chinese tourists are getting more sophisticated and traveling independently, breaking free of the lady with the flag.

 

My GF shopped at Siam Square, Emporium, EmQuarter and T21.  The only time she went to Chinatown is when I dragged her...  She did like Chatuchuk, but mostly for the BBQ shrimp.

 

Some of my Chinese friends fund their overseas trips buying luxury goods like watches and reselling them back in China where the import duties are high.  Just takes one watch to pay for the trip, with minimal chance of being caught.  That's more prevalent in EU and NA, where there's little or no duty on luxury goods.  Good money if you cater to them...

 

Edited March 24, 2022 by impulse

[Leaver]

20 minutes ago, impulse said:

But repeat Chinese tourists are getting more sophisticated and traveling independently, breaking free of the lady with the flag.

 

Why would a Chinese tourist "repeat" to come back to Pattaya / Thailand?  

 

21 minutes ago, impulse said:

My GF shopped at Siam Square, Emporium, EmQuarter and T21.  The only time she went to Chinatown is when I dragged her...  She did like Chatuchuk, but mostly for the BBQ shrimp.

 

Is your girlfriend a good example of your typical Chinese tourists?

 

22 minutes ago, impulse said:

Some of my Chinese friends fund their overseas trips buying luxury goods like watches and reselling them back in China where the import duties are high.  Just takes one watch to pay for the trip, with minimal chance of being caught.  That's more prevalent in EU and NA, where there's little or no duty on luxury goods.  Good money if you cater to them...

 

So they are in Thailand working, and not really tourists. 

 

How do these Chinese "diagou"  support tourist orientated establishments? 

[impulse]

51 minutes ago, Leaver said:

So they are in Thailand working, and not really tourists. 

 

How do these Chinese "diagou"  support tourist orientated establishments? 

If you consider coming to Thailand for 2 weeks, buying a bunch of stuff and returning back home as "working" yes, they were.  But I doubt Thai immigration would bat an eyelash.

 

My favorite weekend beach getaway was in Jomtien.  It's a family resort, and was mainly focused on Eastern European guests.  I found them to be delightful and very family oriented.  Nothing like the mongers I saw in Pattaya itself.  I'd meet them on the beach, from East Germany, Belarus, Russia and Ukraine.

 

Over the years, the guest mix became more and more Chinese.  The snack shop selection changed to cater to Chinese, too.  They started stocking MouTai and instant noodles.  They opened up their second restaurant as a Chinese breakfast buffet in the morning to take pressure off the existing buffet and give the Chinese what they liked.  The gift shop stocked a lot of the goodies the Chinese like to take home, to prove they were in Thailand.  They hired some Chinese speakers for the reception area.  The van service to town had Russian, German, English and Chinese signs. 

 

That's how you make money catering to the Chinese tourists.  A lot of them found the place in a tour group, and later came back as independent (repeat) travelers.  Rooms started at around 2000 baht, with poolside villas up in the 10-20,000 baht range.  Probably higher, but I never paid more.

[Stargeezr]

The Russians can still get back home if they fly via China. If they did not have enough spare money do do that

well, I guess they are in big trouble.

[falangUK]

On 3/23/2022 at 9:46 AM, spidermike007 said:

Exactly what the vast majority of the Chinese tourists did, when they were #1 in volume. Everyone I spoke to in the industry said they did not spend much money. Only the fruit shake vendors, the buffets, 7/11, Lotus, and duty free seemed to make any money from them. And they want them back?

of course they want those "rich" Chinese back!

[Onerak]

20 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Those numbers are beyond useless. While it is true that the "average Chinese tourist" is a big spender, Thailand does not get many of those folks. For a dozen good reasons, they go elsewhere. And average includes rich Chinese tourists, averaged in. The rich rarely visit Thailand, which gets the lower end of the spectrum. 

 

So, using a worldwide average is not useful. It means nothing. 

Those numbers are for Thailand. Europe and America is way higher. Pre-pandemic, every European city from Amsterdam to Zurich I watched the VAT refunds queue and it was always 90% Chinese. While middle class come to Thailand the rich go to America and Europe. Europe and USA, the average number is $373. I am a keen observer of people. I have seen the malls in Thailand are filled with Chinese tourists. 

Edited March 24, 2022 by Onerak

[Hummin]

14 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

And how many actually spent more than 1k baht a day

On average I spend around 2,5k a day in Thailand, Additional in the last 6 years bought 5 new motorbikes, one new car, one new atv,  and built a small farm. 4 years on tourist visas, and two years on retirement. But still a holiday foreigner who buys a house in Thailand would spend alot more than me. 
 

Most of my friends who visits Thailand maybe spend around 5 - 12k a day depending on which activities they do, and hotel they are staying. Most of them  are huge spenders on activities and restaurants and medium priced hotels ranged 3000,- +-

[newnative]

9 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

Same old story.

 

The Chinese simply set up a cosmetics and dried fruit and nut business, employing 300 baht a day Thai's. 

 

The Chinese tour operators are paid a commission to bring the Chinese tour groups to the Chinese owned establishments, and the profits are repatriated back to China. 

 

All Thailand can boast about is the numbers flying in, whilst the profits are flying out.  

    Utter nonsense.  How anyone could make such a statement astounds me when the evidence of no tourists is on stark display every day in Pattaya--and other tourist areas of Thailand.  You and Spidermike, by the way, need to coordinate your posts.  He says the Chinese only shop at Thai-owned 7-11s and now you're saying, no, they only shop at Chinese-owned establishments.  Which is it?  Neither, of course.

     For the thousands and thousands of unemployed Thai workers of all kinds in the tourism industry, they could care less who owns the hotels they work at, the amusement parks and other tourist attractions they work at, the restaurants they work at, the tour buses or boats they drive, the shows they perform at, etc., etc., etc.   All they care about is having jobs.  Jobs, by the way, that contribute greatly to the local economy.

     Does the Disney worker at Paris Disney care a fig who owns the amusement park?  No.  Does he or she care a fig that the 'profits are flying out' to California?  No.  Same story here.  Same story the World over for foreign-owned businesses, be they hotels, factories, stores, tourist attractions, or whatever.  

    

[Leaver]

On 3/24/2022 at 4:39 PM, impulse said:

If you consider coming to Thailand for 2 weeks, buying a bunch of stuff and returning back home as "working" yes, they were.  But I doubt Thai immigration would bat an eyelash.

 

Ok, so why are you counting them as tourists?  Do you think these Fly In / Fly Out Chinese daigou hit the tourists sites where they are simply here working?  They support retail, not tourism and hospitality.  

 

I know Thai immigration don't care.  

 

On 3/24/2022 at 4:39 PM, impulse said:

My favorite weekend beach getaway was in Jomtien.  It's a family resort, and was mainly focused on Eastern European guests.  I found them to be delightful and very family oriented.  Nothing like the mongers I saw in Pattaya itself.  I'd meet them on the beach, from East Germany, Belarus, Russia and Ukraine.

 

Pattaya has something for everyone, but neither Pattaya Beach or Jomtien Beach are nice beaches, so I gather tourists also come here for other reasons, like you suggested, the sex trade being one of them.  

 

On 3/24/2022 at 4:39 PM, impulse said:

That's how you make money catering to the Chinese tourists.  A lot of them found the place in a tour group, and later came back as independent (repeat) travelers. 

 

Do you have a link to support this claim?  That is, repeat tourists, not repeat workers. (diagou)  

 

On 3/24/2022 at 4:39 PM, impulse said:

Over the years, the guest mix became more and more Chinese.  The snack shop selection changed to cater to Chinese, too.  They started stocking MouTai and instant noodles.  They opened up their second restaurant as a Chinese breakfast buffet in the morning to take pressure off the existing buffet and give the Chinese what they liked.  The gift shop stocked a lot of the goodies the Chinese like to take home, to prove they were in Thailand.  They hired some Chinese speakers for the reception area.  The van service to town had Russian, German, English and Chinese signs. 

 

When the Chinese masses come back, the transition from catering for westerners to catering for Chinese with start back up again.  

 

 

[3NUMBAS]

no chance to get home, planes have no insurance, no cert of airworthyness .no spare parts ..and theyre illegal cos the leasing companies haent been paid so planes have been hi jacked and the leaseing companies want them back for non payment for millions of $..they can fly illegally within russia tho with no insurance if they can get some spare parts from the breakers yard

[Will B Good]

1 minute ago, 3NUMBAS said:

no chance to get home, planes have no insurance, no cert of airworthyness .no spare parts ..and theyre illegal cos the leasing companies haent been paid so planes have been hi jacked and the leaseing companies want them back for non payment for millions of $..they can fly illegally within russia tho with no insurance if they can get some spare parts from the breakers yard

Odd.........Russian head of security has just announced that sanctions are having absolutely no impact......mmmm?

[bkk6060]

Putin won the election on 2018 with almost 80% of the vote.

Stop being naive and thinking these people did not vote for him.

They mostly support him and his attitude and philosophy.

 

Edited March 26, 2022 by onthedarkside
derogatory comments removed

[TheScience]

On 3/23/2022 at 9:33 AM, webfact said:

This was the result of the invasion of Ukraine and the sanctions placed on the Russians. 

That is not correct. Thailand CAN accept Russian rubles for exchange but they do not.

 

Moreover, the ruble has tumbled from bad to worse making anything outside Russia and probably most things within far more expensive.

 

To say it has anything directly due to an *invasion* is not at all honest.

[impulse]

35 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Like I said, they employ 300 baht a day Thai workers. Tell me, where do you think the profits go?  Which economy benefits the most?  Have you even considered a lot of these lower paid jobs are performed by Burmese, Cambodian and Lao workers?  

As if the servers, maids, drivers and other employees of Westerner targeted hospitality establishments are any different?

[Leaver]

13 minutes ago, impulse said:

Don't need a link. 

Yeah, you do.

 

You comment is your opinion. You have no evidence to back it up.

 

15 minutes ago, impulse said:

Many of my neighbors are consummate travelers, going international 4 or 5 times a year.  (Pre-Covid)

 

To Pattaya????

 

15 minutes ago, impulse said:

You keep calling them workers,

 

You keep calling them tourists.  They are not.

 

16 minutes ago, impulse said:

Of course they support tourism.  They eat, they sleep, they bop around, and they pay for it all.  Keeping Thai restaurants, Thai hotels, Thai drivers and Thai shopkeepers employed.  Which is why Thai hotels and shops adjust their operations to cash in on them.

 

Just by their physical presence there is an element of supporting the local economy, just the same way an expat does, but it's no where near what you are suggesting.  

 

[impulse]

6 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Depends what they are coming to Thailand for, doesn't it?

 

if it's for a nice beach, Phuket, Samui etc beat Pattaya, easily.  

 

If for the sex trade, Pattaya beats everywhere.

If the guests at my favorite Jomtien getaway were there for the sex, they did a great job of hiding it from their wives, their kids, and their friends who gathered each evening to sit on the grounds and share a few drinks and some food.  They took the hotel van into town during the day, with the wife and kids in tow.

[TheScience]

24 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

Is it a cheap shot?

 

Do you think Pattaya Beach and Jomtien Beach are nice?  

 

Do you think there are nicer beaches in Thailand?

 

 

Like I said, other reasons, not just the beach.  

 

 

Depends what they are coming to Thailand for, doesn't it?

 

if it's for a nice beach, Phuket, Samui etc beat Pattaya, easily.  

 

If for the sex trade, Pattaya beats everywhere.

 

 

No ignorance or hate.

 

Simply point out that Pattaya Beach and Jomtien Beach are not nice enough to pull high end tourists who want a beach holiday. 

 

How many western couple and families do you see here?  

Wow, so dense. Yeah... I know what a nice beach is. I'm relaxing in my hammock on the beach as I write this (see photos).

 

I do not think Phuket, Samui etc beaches all that great. So now...I'm judging you who is judging them.

 

You need to get your mind out of the gutter. Most Russian men are not at all attracted to Asian women. Further, there is a cultural thing about Asians that goes back at least the Russo Japanese war.

 

You're just making a feeble attempt to make Russians the *other*.

 

You've ignored every point I'd made and just blathered on the same old tripe.

 

This is a beach. Look and learn:

Edited March 26, 2022 by TheScience

[Leaver]

1 minute ago, impulse said:

If the guests at my favorite Jomtien getaway were there for the sex, they did a great job of hiding it from their wives, their kids, and their friends who gathered each evening to sit on the grounds and share a few drinks and some food.  They took the hotel van into town during the day, with the wife and kids in tow.

 

But we are not talking about just the guests at your favourite Jomtien getaway, are we?   

 

That's a small control group, or do you think they are indicative of the wider tourism numbers?

[Leaver]

4 minutes ago, TheScience said:

Wow, so dense. Yeah... I know what I nice beach is. I'm relaxing in my hammock on the beach as I write this (see photos).

 

I do not think Phuket, Samui etc beaches all that great. So now...I'm judging you who is judging them.

 

You need to get your mind out of the gutter. Most Russian men are not at all attracted to Asian women. Further, there is a cultural thing about Asians that goes back at least the Russo Japanese war.

 

You're just making a feeble attempt to make Russians the *other*.

 

You've ignored every point I'd made and just blathered on the same old tripe.

 

This is a beach. Look and learn:

 

No need to resort to a personal attack, even though I couldn't care less.  

 

I have nothing against Russians.   Simply stating, a poor beach attracts poor tourists, unless they are coming for some other reason. 

 

How are your photos of a nice beach relevant to this discussion?  I have said Thailand has nice beaches, but in my opinion, Pattaya and Jomtien Beaches are not two of them.  Are you saying they are nice? 

 

 

[impulse]

13 minutes ago, Leaver said:

But we are not talking about just the guests at your favourite Jomtien getaway, are we?   

 

That's a small control group, or do you think they are indicative of the wider tourism numbers?

I think it's a lot more indicative than sitting on a barstool in a brothel and complaining about the price of beer and bar fines and gauging "tourism" by what passes through the doors.  I have always contended that Thailand would be better served if they cleaned up the sex industry.  Not to eliminate it, just not so in-your-face.  For every monger dollar they'd lose, they'd more than make it up in family tourism. 

 

That's why I liked the resort in Jomtien.  I found the Russian, East German, Belarussian and Ukrainian families to be delightful.  The mongers in town, not so much- regardless of their origin.  (7 years in Thailand put me off ever wanting to visit Australia, but that's another topic for another thread)

Edited March 26, 2022 by impulse

[Leaver]

5 minutes ago, TheScience said:

I doubt Russians are staying in 4k rooms.

 

Do try to keep up.

 

Did I mention Russians in my post?

 

6 minutes ago, TheScience said:

Does Thailand benefit?

1) are you now the arbitrator on that?

2) if it didn't would it not have halted the voa for them long ago?

3) you really care? I'm long past worrying, feeling sorry for a country that treats me as poorly as they do. Up to them.

 

1) No, it's just an internet forum for discussion.

 

2)  The Thai authorities tried, and failed.  Remember the crackdown on using Thai nominees in Chinese run businesses, and zero baht tourism?

 

3) No, I couldn't care less, but that doesn't change the facts.  As I have said before, I am here for the sun, sea, sand, seafood, suds, and snatch.  I am not here to fall in love with a Thai prostitute and adopt her extended Thai family, buying assets that I can not have in my name along the way.  That, is "up to me" not "up to them."     

[Leaver]

7 minutes ago, impulse said:

I think it's a lot more indicative than sitting on a barstool in a brothel and complaining about the price of beer

 

Would that be like Russian tourists sitting on their hotel balcony drinking a bottle of vodka?  ????

 

9 minutes ago, impulse said:

I have always contended that Thailand would be better served if they cleaned up the sex industry.  Not to eliminate it, just not so in-your-face.  For every monger dollar they'd lose, they'd more than make it up in family tourism. 

 

I have always said Thailand needs Special Economic Zones, where the sex industry, and possibly casinos, can operate, and they are not near beaches or family orientated tourist activities.

 

This way, they get the money from both types of tourists.

 

13 minutes ago, impulse said:

That's why I liked the resort in Jomtien.  I found the Russian, East German, Belarussian and Ukrainian families to be delightful. 

 

Is "delightful" lucrative to Thailand?  

 

13 minutes ago, impulse said:

The mongers in town, not so much- regardless of their origin. 

 For every monger that pays 1000 baht for an hour, that money is spread in the Pattaya economy, and the Issan economy.  Is it not?

[jacko45k]

11 hours ago, Will B Good said:

Odd.........Russian head of security has just announced that sanctions are having absolutely no impact......mmmm?

Take that with a pinch of salt ......  they also claim Ukraine is firing missiles at it's own buildings and people. 

[Excel]

18 hours ago, Leaver said:

yet, here are large Chinese companies, using Thai nominees,

Please provide some evidence of that allegation that can then be reported to the authorities.

[metisdead]

Some off topic posts and the replies regarding Chinese tourists have been removed.

[bradiston]

1 minute ago, metisdead said:

Some off topic posts and the replies regarding Chinese tourists have been removed.

Great, about time too!

[Blue Muton]

On 3/24/2022 at 7:50 PM, Golden Triangle said:

What does that at the bottom mean ??

 

Do you mean this bit?

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=ktbffh&oq=KTBFFH&aqs=chrome.0.0i512j46i512j0i512l7j0i390.6519j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

[Golden Triangle]

24 minutes ago, Blue Muton said:

Do you mean this bit?

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=ktbffh&oq=KTBFFH&aqs=chrome.0.0i512j46i512j0i512l7j0i390.6519j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Thanks for that ???? ????????

[Jingthing]

On 3/26/2022 at 8:24 PM, Leaver said:

 

No need to resort to a personal attack, even though I couldn't care less.  

 

I have nothing against Russians.   Simply stating, a poor beach attracts poor tourists, unless they are coming for some other reason. 

 

How are your photos of a nice beach relevant to this discussion?  I have said Thailand has nice beaches, but in my opinion, Pattaya and Jomtien Beaches are not two of them.  Are you saying they are nice? 

 

 

Jomtien is OK.

The attraction here is about the combination of a grand resort city with some water stuff.

There are island side trips too.