Electric Vehicles in Thailand

[JBChiangRai]

9 hours ago, UWEB said:

I doubt this. I have a Digital Meter and my Ghost Export get shown under code 300 on the Display. My Neighbor got caught by PEA when his Meter was spinning backwards, after a lot of discussions they finally agreed to install a TOU Meter which blocks all export from his Solar. Later we found that code 300  not get shown on his TOU Display.

 

The digital meters including TOU don't block exporting of power, what they do is record it separately.

 

PEA/MEA won't pay you for it, and they won't like it. What they subsequently do is up to them, maybe nothing, maybe a lot.

 

 

[UWEB]

15 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

The digital meters including TOU don't block exporting of power, what they do is record it separately.

 

PEA/MEA won't pay you for it, and they won't like it. What they subsequently do is up to them, maybe nothing, maybe a lot.

 

 

Seems to be you know it better than my Neighbor.

[JBChiangRai]

46 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

The digital meters including TOU don't block exporting of power, what they do is record it separately.

 

PEA/MEA won't pay you for it, and they won't like it. What they subsequently do is up to them, maybe nothing, maybe a lot.

 

 

 

30 minutes ago, UWEB said:

Seems to be you know it better than my Neighbor.

 

I probably do know it better than your neighbour, but there again, I do have a degree in Electronic Engineering.

 

Blocking exporting of power is very difficult, recording it or allowing it to happen unrecorded is very simple with a digital meter.  If you want a second opinion ask @Crossy, I think he's a sparky.

[Gweiloman]

15 hours ago, CLW said:

I own an MG 4 and drive five times to work per week, three full charges per week. Plus sometimes travelling on weekend or long holidays. The monthly cost of charging never exceeded 1,000 THB. So I don't know how you come up with monthly costs of 8k THB. Even if I add the electric cost for our house with 2 ACs, the monthly bill is rarely over 2k THB. With TOU (which also includes weekends and public holidays). 

 

And you want to tell me that a 10 kW PV system is feasible for this case? Like I said, 15 years ROI

How long is your daily commute?

[Gweiloman]

12 hours ago, UWEB said:

If you have a TOU Meter installed you can not Export/ Sell Power to PEA/MEA.

Sorry but not true currently. I have TOU and I sell back to PEA but at the measly 2.2 baht or something like that. Better than a kick in the teeth I suppose.

[KhunLA]

22 hours ago, KhunLA said:

13.3 seems to be it's happy place +/-

@Pib  Check that ... Noticed after start up, not noticing at start up, but down at end of the soi, @ 14.1.  and while on the way for our morning (longer) park/surfside cruise.  Where it stayed consistent, till I got taken for my morning walk at the park.

 

After walk, and restart, down @ 13.3 ... hmm.   Took all of 1 ish kms (distance/time) driving to get back to 14.1.

 

Cruised by surf, make sure it's still there, and 14.1 the whole time.  Only fluctuation, when braking, half the time it would drop to 14.0.

 

Back home, parked, still 14.1.  

 

 

So let that sit for 29 minutes, while looking at snaps, restarted, and @ 13.3, and taking all of 4 ish minutes while on, sitting in carport to get back to 14.1.  Waited a few more minutes to see if will register higher and did not.

 

 

 

Seems 13.3 is it's happy place at rest, and 14.1 when turned on 'ready' or 'driving'

 

Park is shy of 4 kms, surf 1 km past that, total round trip, only 14.4 kms.  Our daily, unnecessary driving  

 

Which we pass Makro on the way to the park, so we really don't need a car at all, except for O&A, or uncooperative weather.  MB or Ebike would handle all our daily travelling chores.

[CLW]

11 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

How long is your daily commute?

Why? I already stated I'm doing three charges per week. Approximately from 15 to 80 % SOC. The car battery has 64 kWh capacity 

[Pib]

@KhunLA

   Thanks for the feedback.  I take it you didn't get a chance to make a measurement right at the 12V battery terminals with a digitial voltmeter to see if the multimeter agrees with your EV voltmeter?   

 

    Based on your snapshots and describtion (especially when the EV is turned off) I think your EV voltmeter "could possibly" be reading high by around 0.3 to  0.4V.   I say this based on the 13.3V reading you get when the car is turned off/not charging the 12V battery.   It should be around 12.9 to 13.0V "unless", repeat unless when your car is turned off there is partically no drain still occurring on your 12V....like all of the electronics merely didn't go into standby mode but power was completely cut.  

 

    When a 12V battery is charged to 100% after the charging stops a 12V flooded lead acid battery will have a "surface charge" of around 0.3V....that is, instead of reading around 12.6 to 12.9V it would be a little over 13V "if there was no drain on the battery and the battery was still it good shape.  But if there was some current drain (small amount) that surface charge (which has very, very capacity) will drain off fairly quick...within seconds to a few minutes....but it depends on how large the drain is. 

 

 After this surface charge is disapated then you will be reading the true voltage/charge level of the battery.   When doing battery tests with a capacity/load meter they usually say be sure the 12V battery is first fully charged "and then turn on the headlights for 15 seconds or so to disapate any surface charge" in order to get a better capacity/load measurement.   

 

   You might want to use a digitial voltmeter to make a measurement right at the battery terminals when the car is turn on and charging the 12V battery (i.e., that 14.1V level) and when the car is turned off/not charging the 12V battery (i.e., that 13.3V level).    Now if the car built-in voltmeter does turn out to be reading a little high...let's say 0.3V just for discussion purposes....then a 13.8V charging level is actually better than a 14.1V level because 14.1V because when the 12V battery temp reaches say 40C (which is will easily do) it has already exceeded it's "gassing" voltage level of a hair less than 14V.   But exceeding by such a small amount with a maniteance free/sealed battery (i..e, no can add water) all the gassing effect should be recaptured within the battery.   But it's not a good thing to be exceeding the "gassing" voltage level all the time/for long periods (like hours and hours) as it can shorten the lifespan of the battery. 

 

  Cheers

 

[Pib]

 

@KhunLA

    Below are a couple of snapshots of the voltage levels reported for my Atto by the Bluetooth Monitor I have installed on the 12V battery....the monitor has a voltage measurement accuracy of +/- 0.03V.  

 

- the half volt voltage dip a little after midnight is just the EV during some type of diagnostic it does each and every night sometimes between midnight and 0600hrs..predominately between 0200 and 0400hrs.   Maybe talking to the BYD mothership...maybe doing some kind of diagnostic....I really don't know what it's doing in the middle of the night.

-   at 1127hrs the wife and I go on a shopping run and the 12V charging begins....charging voltage is around 13.73V as shown by the blue vertical line....just before starting the EV the voltage was 12.77V.   I doubt there was any "surface charge." 

 - at around 1227hr you see a 1V dip for a few minutes...this is when I parked/turned off the EV and went into the mall for about an hour.  BUT NOTICE the voltage jumps back up to around 13.7V...and that's because the EV decided it wants to continue charging the !2V even with the EV turned off.  This is very common.   

  - at around 1330hrs we finish the mall trip and start the EV...since the EV was already charging it just continues since we started the EV...you will notce a very small decline of less than 0.1V when I started the EV until 1400hrs when there is a small increase of around a 0.1V...the small 0.1V inceased is due to me parking the car/turned it off at home.

  - BUT NOTICE the voltage never dropped back down to below 13V as the EV continued charge even with the EV turned off...it continued to charge for two more hours.  Once again, no uncommon based on my BT monitor tracking.

  - At 1600hrs it stops charging and voltage drops to 12.85V for 10 minutes...then increases to almost 13V for 20 minutes (remember the car is turned off)...and then there is a 1V voltage dip for a very brief period (seconds to maybe a 2 minutes) probably caused the EV finally going to sleep...finally going into full standby...and then the battery natually regains voltage back to a little over 12.9V.   See the 2nd snapshot below for a close up of the charging/driving period of time.  Once again, this is very common....just part of the Atto's charging profile.

 

Yeap...EVs not only charge while while the car is turned on but might also continue to charge when the car is turned off.  Different from an ICEV which only charges with the motor is running/alternator spinning.

 

1st Stapshot: Bluetooth Battery Monitor Snapshot...24 hour chart...one hour increments....from midnight to 7pm on 23 July for my Atto EV.

 

 

 

2nd snaphot: zoomed-in view of above chart of the  charging/driving period of time.

 

 

[mistral53]

BYD, LFP battery, approx. 157k km with SOH of 91% after almost 2 years is very impressive.

 

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/XCPSexhQrEZAMmF4/

[Alotoftravel]

Any concerns with battery SOH with an ev car sitting on the lot for a year (Otto 3 my23 model), or it is better to get the my24 model with fresh battery ? 

[JBChiangRai]

We had my daughters MG4 serviced yesterday, they said the battery voltage was 483v (if I remember right) they said anything over 450v is good.

 

They charged 1,600 baht, which I think was for a HEPA filter for the cabin.  I have ordered one on Lazada for 320 baht, they won't be fitting one next time.

 

On that subject, does anyone know how to change the cabin air filter?

 

[Gweiloman]

12 hours ago, CLW said:

Why? I already stated I'm doing three charges per week. Approximately from 15 to 80 % SOC. The car battery has 64 kWh capacity 

That means you are doing about 300 kms or so every couple of days. That’s a lot of driving. Luckily you don’t have to worry about petrol prices.

[mistral53]

5 hours ago, Alotoftravel said:

Any concerns with battery SOH with an ev car sitting on the lot for a year (Otto 3 my23 model), or it is better to get the my24 model with fresh battery ? 

If you can get one of those steep discounts that BYD offers on new 2023 Atto 3 models, you cant go wrong, that is an amazing deal.

 

As for the battery - it should be possible to get a SOH reading done by the dealer for the specific car you select. I don't think there will be much deterioration to be expected if the car was stored at the recommended 30 - 80% SOC.

[KhunLA]

4 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

We had my daughters MG4 serviced yesterday, they said the battery voltage was 483v (if I remember right) they said anything over 450v is good.

 

They charged 1,600 baht, which I think was for a HEPA filter for the cabin.  I have ordered one on Lazada for 320 baht, they won't be fitting one next time.

 

On that subject, does anyone know how to change the cabin air filter?

That's the only thing we get charged for at the 10k check up.  Really gets clogged up with dog hair, since recycle & AC on constantly.  It's behind the glove box on the ZS, and easy enough to get to it. 

 

 Wife said she saw a vid of some chickie doing it herself on internet.   Think the wife will do it herself before the 40k kms check up.  Found this on YT.   Guessing EV version is the same, and maybe same for MG4:

 

[Yellowtail]

I had a cabin air filter (B69, Lazada) on the floor last time I had my "free" tire rotation B-Quik and the guy changed it free. I usually do it, but what the heh. 

[Bandersnatch]

Japan says China’s EV boom in Thailand is a huge threat to its auto market 
 

 

[KhunLA]

3 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

Japan says China’s EV boom in Thailand is a huge threat to its auto market 

 

They finally got one thing right ... 

[Pib]

But, but, but Toyota said back in early 2023 they must respond quickly wiht a sense of crisis to the soaring popularity of electric vehicles.  Maybe he was talking at the speed of a turtle?

https://www.nationthailand.com/business/automobile/40026882

Quote

 

SUNDAY, APRIL 23, 2023

Toyota Motor Corp. will seek to adapt to the soaring popularity of electric vehicles “with a sense of crisis,” President Koji Sato has said.

“It is true that the world is moving fast, so we must respond quickly and flexibly,” Sato said in a recent interview with media organizations. “We need to respond with a sense of crisis.”

Toyota is the world’s biggest automaker group with annual sales of 10.48 million units in 2022, exceeding those at second-ranking Volkswagen AG by over 2 million units.

But in the global EV market, Toyota sold only 20,000 units in 2022, against 1.26 million units logged by market leader Tesla Inc., according to a market research company.

 

Sato underscored eagerness to achieve Toyota’s plan to introduce 10 EV models and raise its annual global EV sales to 1.5 million units by 2026 after improving production efficiency and product appeal.

Sato, a former engineer at Toyota, assumed the post of president April 1 after his predecessor, Akio Toyoda, stepped aside to become chairman. Toyoda, a member of the automaker’s founding family, held the presidency for some 14 years.

“The major trend in the auto industry is toward electrification and EVs,” Sato said. He admitted that Toyota underestimated the growth of the EV market and said the company plans to catch up with growing demand by boosting its product lineup and other measures.

Meanwhile, Sato emphasized the importance of maintaining the strategy of offering a diverse range of environmentally friendly vehicles in addition to EVs, such as hybrid vehicles, plug-in hybrids and fuel cell vehicles.

“We must have a variety of solutions, considering energy security,” he said. “We cannot move forward while ignoring the realities of regional characteristics, economic impacts and usage environments.”

On the role he will play as president, Sato said he will “lead Toyota and the auto industry to the next step while utilizing the foundation laid by Chairman Toyoda.”

“The biggest difference between the chairman and myself is that I am an engineer,” he said, expressing his wish to add his personal touch to the company through products, namely cars.

At a briefing this month, Toyoda announced the goal of reducing carbon dioxide emissions per new vehicle sold worldwide by at least 50% from 2019 levels by 2035.

“It’s a very ambitious figure,” Sato said.

“EVs and other technologies are all just methods. What’s most important is to reduce CO2 emissions,” he said. “We’ll work hard to achieve this goal.”

 

 

[ExpatOilWorker]

On 7/20/2024 at 10:09 AM, BKKBike09 said:

 

It's a little off-topic, but I want to see what happens with electric powered GA aircraft.

 

As the power/weight ratio of batteries improves, as does range/charge time, I'd like to think some interesting possibilities exist.

 

Take a generic Cessna 172 for example. Max take off weight is just under 1,050 kg. Of that, full tanks of fuel (c. 150 litres) are about 110 kg. Lycoming O-320 engine weighs about 125 kg. Add another 10-20 kg for oil, filters, fuel lines etc. So traditional engine + fuel is about 250 kg and gives about 4 hours endurance on full tanks.

 

All electric would be quieter, much easier for fuel management (the number of GA accidents caused by fuel exhaustion is significant), make for simpler weight and balance calculations, remove need for engine leaning, better high density altitude performance since power doesn't come from burning a fuel/air mix, no risk of shock cooling, carb icing, fuel contamination and could deliver 100% power instantaneously etc 

 

A Lycoming O-320 is a great engine. May be 80 year old design but will run happily at a cruise power setting for hours (say 75% / around 2,400 rpm). But a 1,000 hour TBO schedule puts you on the hook for maybe USD 30K to overhaul. 

 

With an electric-powered aircraft, maybe it would also be possible to integrate trickle charge solar paneling into the wings?

 

Of course it's not all 'electric good'. I don't know how ambient air temp changes would impact battery performance, especially sub-zero. And there could be considerable CG issues. 

 

But the possibilities - at least to me - seem very exciting.

 

 

 

10:00 am: Tower to Cessna BB9, you are clear for takeoff.

10:04 am: Cessna BB9 to tower, Roger. V1, rotate, V2 and positive climb. Have a good day.

10:07 am: Cessna BB9, mayday, mayday. Low on fuel ⛽️,  request immediate landing!

Tower: Again????

 

That 200 kg battery pack will give you about 33 minutes of flying time and you need to maintain 30 minutes for a go-around or other emergency. 

 

[Yellowtail]

5 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

10:00 am: Tower to Cessna BB9, you are clear for takeoff.

10:04 am: Cessna BB9 to tower, Roger. V1, rotate, V2 and positive climb. Have a good day.

10:07 am: Cessna BB9, mayday, mayday. Low on fuel ⛽️,  request immediate landing!

Tower: Again????

 

That 200 kg battery pack will give you about 33 minutes of flying time and you need to maintain 30 minutes for a go-around or other emergency. 

 

You know how they fuel bombers in flight? It will be the same, except that instead of a fuel hose, it will be a charging cord. 

 

Or they can just put extra batteries or a gen-set in the cargo hold...

[JBChiangRai]

2 hours ago, Pib said:

But, but, but Toyota said back in early 2023 they must respond quickly wiht a sense of crisis to the soaring popularity of electric vehicles.  Maybe he was talking at the speed of a turtle?

https://www.nationthailand.com/business/automobile/40026882

 

 

They did respond very quickly, they doubled their Anti-EV lobbying and misinformation budget.

[BKKBike09]

2 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

10:00 am: Tower to Cessna BB9, you are clear for takeoff.

10:04 am: Cessna BB9 to tower, Roger. V1, rotate, V2 and positive climb. Have a good day.

10:07 am: Cessna BB9, mayday, mayday. Low on fuel ⛽️,  request immediate landing!

Tower: Again????

 

That 200 kg battery pack will give you about 33 minutes of flying time and you need to maintain 30 minutes for a go-around or other emergency. 

 

Ah, but you ignored my comment: "As the power/weight ratio of batteries improves, as does range/charge time, I'd like to think some interesting possibilities exist" ...

[Bandersnatch]

Neta X just released in Thailand 

 

Edited July 25 by Bandersnatch

[KhunLA]

3 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

They did respond very quickly, they doubled their Anti-EV lobbying and misinformation budget.

While producing bz3/4x with CATL batteries and some production in China.

 

That Chinese threat 

... maybe should be the threat, of not building or supplying the parts that make their EVs possible to exist.

[motdaeng]

neta x .... wow, i love that! i hope other companies will follow ... 

(the fine print for lifetime battery insurance will be interesting)

 

[ExpatOilWorker]

1 hour ago, BKKBike09 said:

 

Ah, but you ignored my comment: "As the power/weight ratio of batteries improves, as does range/charge time, I'd like to think some interesting possibilities exist" ...

Battery energy density might increase 20-25%, but they will not increase x3-4, to keep the Cessna BB9 airworthy.

[KhunLA]

23 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

neta x .... wow, i love that! i hope other companies will follow ... 

(the fine print for lifetime battery insurance will be interesting)

 

MG (SAIC) setting the stage for happy sales & customers.   Now if they'd include the ZS/EP/ES in with that warranty, that would be nice 

 

Not that I expect that we'll ever need it, as doubt the rest of the car will last longer than the battery & motors.  Would be nice piece of mind though.  

 

If the Maxus 9 would have been released earlier, I think I would have been tempted to get that.   Minor conversion and I'd never need a hotel again    

 

If not for the wife, the dog & myself would be happy living in that, playing the nomadic tourist.  Still crosses my mind, and if a wee bit younger 

Edited July 25 by KhunLA

[Bandersnatch]

Those of us who own Chinese electric cars on AN seem to have to spend a great deal of time defending them against anti-China rhetoric and the seemingly widespread belief that all EVs are rubbish but especially Chinese ones.

My BYD Seal AWD Performance is a fantastic car and if you haven’t driven one you won’t be able to imagine just how good it is, but maybe this article might shed a little light on actually why it is so good:

 

“More than 10,000 fresh college graduates have joined BYD, the Chinese new energy vehicle (NEV) maker announced today.

 

Nearly 70 percent of these newly hired freshmen have master's or doctoral degrees, and nearly 80 percent are research and development personnel“

 

https://cnevpost.com/2024/07/24/byd-over-10000-fresh-graduates-joining/
 

 

[transam]

2 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

Those of us who own Chinese electric cars on AN seem to have to spend a great deal of time defending them against anti-China rhetoric and the seemingly widespread belief that all EVs are rubbish but especially Chinese ones.

My BYD Seal AWD Performance is a fantastic car and if you haven’t driven one you won’t be able to imagine just how good it is, but maybe this article might shed a little light on actually why it is so good:

 

“More than 10,000 fresh college graduates have joined BYD, the Chinese new energy vehicle (NEV) maker announced today.

 

Nearly 70 percent of these newly hired freshmen have master's or doctoral degrees, and nearly 80 percent are research and development personnel“

 

https://cnevpost.com/2024/07/24/byd-over-10000-fresh-graduates-joining/
 

 

"Anti-China rhetoric", ..........😂....Now come on, next you will be telling us MG cars are actually British, it must be, there's a Union Jack on the boot........😂