Electric Vehicles in Thailand

[Melpomene]

44 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

I for one was very excited when Tesla announced they were going to be selling EVs in Thailand. I was shocked at the price they chose to sell them at  - nearly 40% more than in other RHD markets like Australia. Tesla has been cutting prices around the world in the run up the the Highland Model 3 launch, but not in Thailand. In 12 months they didn't cut prices once and then only days after the dramatic sales figures for the BYD Seal.

 

As I have posted above. Tesla Charging is available in Korat, Pattaya and BKK. They have been put to shame by MG and BYD that have rolled out showrooms each with DC and AC charging.

 

The sales figures speak for themselves:

 

 

 

 

Yeah they haven't really taken off in the way I thought they would've done to be honest.  I think the price is ok, particularly after the recent cuts, although maybe I'm just comparing them to the UK as they're about 15% cheaper.

 

I'm more concerned about the lack of service centres, I suppose you'd be gambling on them opening more sites and getting more trained technicians in over the next year or two.  There's a number of tales on the Thai forums of long queues to get issues looked at.  I'm also a bit wary of range compared to the Seal.  I want the LFP battery, so the only M3 option is the RWD which is just 513kms.  So you're paying 150-200k more depending on colour for a slower car with less range.  Then if you're looking at the MY it's only 455kms which I think really is too low.

[Bandersnatch]

5 minutes ago, Melpomene said:

 

Yeah they haven't really taken off in the way I thought they would've done to be honest.  I think the price is ok, particularly after the recent cuts, although maybe I'm just comparing them to the UK as they're about 15% cheaper.

 

I'm more concerned about the lack of service centres, I suppose you'd be gambling on them opening more sites and getting more trained technicians in over the next year or two.  There's a number of tales on the Thai forums of long queues to get issues looked at.  I'm also a bit wary of range compared to the Seal.  I want the LFP battery, so the only M3 option is the RWD which is just 513kms.  So you're paying 150-200k more depending on colour for a slower car with less range.  Then if you're looking at the MY it's only 455kms which I think really is too low.

I ordered the Seal Premium LR RWD. Like you I wanted LFP but I also wanted V2L, which I was hoping would appear in the Highland Model 3. When it didn’t my mind was made up. 
 

My wife thinks the lack of indicator stalks and drive selector on the screen is a dealbreaker.  

 

[Pib]

 

We've talked a little bit about ground clearance in relation to driving thru water/flooded area.  As I read my 200 page Atto 3 manual in prep of getting my car this week the manual gives some conflicting info on the depth of water to avoid.  On page 98 is says water depth must not exceed the vehicle's lower edge. The Atto has a ground clearance level of 175mm.   

 

But then just a few paragraphs later on page 99 it says do not drive thru areas where the water level exceeds half the tire height.  I'm assuming where they say "tire" they mean the rubber tire "and" steel rim as if it's the rubber tire portion only then that would only be around 50mm.  Today I measured the halfway height of an Atto setting in a parking lot (hope the owner didn't see me) and it was 330mm from pavement to center of the rim.  

 

Seems to me half way up the wheel...which is 330mm on the Atto should be the safe limit assuming it was a short distance and you keep moving.  In the perfect world where it never rains hard causing standing water on roads the possibly of driving thru water is close to zero, but in the real world and especially in the tropics such as Thailand where rain can quickly cause unavoidable road flooding and big mudpuddles hopefully BEVs with their traction battery on the bottom of the car can handle driving thru water half way up the wheel for short distances especially since the traction battery and high voltage components are suppose to waterproof per IP67 which means waterproof for short periods in up to 1m of water.

 

See three snapshots below.

 

 

 

[vinny41]

Battery Cover Metal or Plastic

Metal AION, Neta,  Tesla, MG

Plastic ORA, BYD For BYD Dolphin, expect the same as Atto3

BYD Seal part is different because it is the first generation CTB.

(The dormitory floor is a battery cover. It's metal.)

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2389905174463399/permalink/6688624604591413

 

Is this quality control issue  from factory, damaged by foreign object or Rat bite

https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=890560152640217&set=pcb.890554749307424

 

In some countries you can get this product Rat Mat or Grid Guard

Review Here

 

Testing Out The Grid Guard Electric Vehicle Rodent Protection System

Need access to 24/7 power supply ( No power outages)

[vinny41]

2 hours ago, Pib said:

 

We've talked a little bit about ground clearance in relation to driving thru water/flooded area.  As I read my 200 page Atto 3 manual in prep of getting my car this week the manual gives some conflicting info on the depth of water to avoid.  On page 98 is says water depth must not exceed the vehicle's lower edge. The Atto has a ground clearance level of 175mm.   

 

But then just a few paragraphs later on page 99 it says do not drive thru areas where the water level exceeds half the tire height.  I'm assuming where they say "tire" they mean the rubber tire "and" steel rim as if it's the rubber tire portion only then that would only be around 50mm.  Today I measured the halfway height of an Atto setting in a parking lot (hope the owner didn't see me) and it was 330mm from pavement to center of the rim.  

 

Seems to me half way up the wheel...which is 330mm on the Atto should be the safe limit assuming it was a short distance and you keep moving.  In the perfect world where it never rains hard causing standing water on roads the possibly of driving thru water is close to zero, but in the real world and especially in the tropics such as Thailand where rain can quickly cause unavoidable road flooding and big mudpuddles hopefully BEVs with their traction battery on the bottom of the car can handle driving thru water half way up the wheel for short distances especially since the traction battery and high voltage components are suppose to waterproof per IP67 which means waterproof for short periods in up to 1m of water.

 

See three snapshots below.

 

 

 

Here they are stating and can drive through water as deep as 40 cm. #ATTO3

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=243906628425844&id=100084195251877&set=a.116740184475823

On the Ford Ranger with standard tires they quoted the limit as being 800mm 

Personally I wouldn't drive through any flooded water as you unable to see any foreign objects in the water or if you go down a deep pot hole

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, vinny41 said:

Here they are stating and can drive through water as deep as 40 cm. #ATTO3

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=243906628425844&id=100084195251877&set=a.116740184475823

On the Ford Ranger with standard tires they quoted the limit as being 800mm 

Personally I wouldn't drive through any flooded water as you unable to see any foreign objects in the water or if you go down a deep pot hole

So what do you do when you come to a flooded area and there is traffic behind you? 

[vinny41]

22 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

So what do you do when you come to a flooded area and there is traffic behind you? 

I wouldn't drive in flooded water I would park somewhere until the water levels dropped

[Yellowtail]

35 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

I wouldn't drive in flooded water I would park somewhere until the water levels dropped

So what do you do when you come to a flooded area and there is traffic behind you?

[spidermike007]

I just can't imagine Thailand ever having a sufficient infrastructure network to support charging cars on the road, I just can't see it. Does anybody feel differently? So, that means you have to use them only around town, or on short trips. Quite a limitation. 

 

Hybrids makes alot more sense in a place like this. 

[vinny41]

15 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

So what do you do when you come to a flooded area and there is traffic behind you?

It would be unusually to be driving on roads that are not flooded and suddenly without warning come to a flooded area  if that did happen I would park up more so with an EV since the largest % of the cost of the vehicle is closest to the road now if I was driving a vehicle with 32 inch tyres I may consider driving through the flooded area

[Yellowtail]

5 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

It would be unusually to be driving on roads that are not flooded and suddenly without warning come to a flooded area  if that did happen I would park up more so with an EV since the largest % of the cost of the vehicle is closest to the road now if I was driving a vehicle with 32 inch tyres I may consider driving through the flooded area

Well, it happened to me Saturday night. So you would stop in the road and block traffic and what, take a nap in the back seat?

[vinny41]

21 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Well, it happened to me Saturday night. So you would stop in the road and block traffic and what, take a nap in the back seat?

Read my posts did I say I would stop in the middle of the road NO

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

I just can't imagine Thailand ever having a sufficient infrastructure network to support charging cars on the road,

So you've completely ignored all the post stating the complete opposite, with maps verifying their replies: https://www.plugshare.com/

 

[Bandersnatch]

6 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

I just can't imagine Thailand ever having a sufficient infrastructure network to support charging cars on the road, I just can't see it. Does anybody feel differently? So, that means you have to use them only around town, or on short trips. Quite a limitation. 

 

If you don't drive an EV then you probably don't even notice them.  Many fuel stations have them. Many shopping centers will have several. Every MG and BYD dealership that you drive by has them. Thailand is currently in a honeymoon period when there are lots of chargers and not many people wanting to use them. 

 

The only time I have seen chargers busy is when the whole of Thailand decides to take to the roads at the same time. 

 

My new EV has an 82.56kWh usable battery capacity. As it has Lithium Iron Phosphate battery chemistry it is fine to leave it at a 100% state of charge. It has 650km range and a 150kW charging speed meaning that it can add nearly 400km range in 20 minutes. Unless I am travelling more than 650km I will charge at home.

 

 

[spidermike007]

27 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

If you don't drive an EV then you probably don't even notice them.  Many fuel stations have them. Many shopping centers will have several. Every MG and BYD dealership that you drive by has them. Thailand is currently in a honeymoon period when there are lots of chargers and not many people wanting to use them. 

 

The only time I have seen chargers busy is when the whole of Thailand decides to take to the roads at the same time. 

 

My new EV has an 82.56kWh usable battery capacity. As it has Lithium Iron Phosphate battery chemistry it is fine to leave it at a 100% state of charge. It has 650km range and a 150kW charging speed meaning that it can add nearly 400km range in 20 minutes. Unless I am travelling more than 650km I will charge at home.

 

 

Impressive numbers. What kind of car is it? 

[Bandersnatch]

13 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Impressive numbers. What kind of car is it? 

 

BYD Seal Premium (LR RWD)

 

 

 

 

[Yellowtail]

7 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Read my posts did I say I would stop in the middle of the road NO

 

So what do you do when you come to a flooded area and there is traffic behind you?

[JBChiangRai]

My brother in law mentioned the BYD Seal in the UK has ADS (Alcohol Detection System).

 

I wonder what it is and if we get it here?

[Andrew Dwyer]

11 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

My brother in law mentioned the BYD Seal in the UK has ADS (Alcohol Detection System).

 

I wonder what it is and if we get it here?

That is interesting, as is Child Forgetting Detection !!

Fingerprint scanners have been discussed recently, wonder if that’s what it means here ?

 

Don’t see anything similar on Thai ( Rever) website.

[macahoom]

21 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

My brother in law mentioned the BYD Seal in the UK has ADS (Alcohol Detection System).

 

I wonder what it is and if we get it here?

I don't think we're getting it in Thailand.

 

I'm disappointed we're also not getting the two microphone karaoke which is standard in China.

 

Not that I would ever use it, but it's so ridiculous I'd like to have it.

[Pib]

9 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

I just can't imagine Thailand ever having a sufficient infrastructure network to support charging cars on the road, I just can't see it. Does anybody feel differently? So, that means you have to use them only around town, or on short trips. Quite a limitation. 

 

Hybrids makes alot more sense in a place like this. 

Not an issue for trips....PLENTY of chargers in Thailand already...at fuel stations, malls, just lots of places, etc.   Just go to any website/use any app that shows charging locations...like the "plugshare.com" which is a crowd-based website to show charging locations.   Or use some of the charging station apps used to operate charging stations to see where chargers in that network are located. 

 

Now this is not to imply you may not have to wait a little while to use a charger if it's already in use...or drive a few kilometers to another charger....but the apps used with chargers typically show whether a charger is in use or broke before you arrive which allows to to detour to another available charger.  And yes, with "some" of the charging apps you will need a Thai ID 13 digit number to register (farang Pink ID OK or even 13 digit number issued to document COVD jabs is fine) and need a "Thai" debit/credit as a charging payment option....but the majority of apps are happy with a passport number...and you can also pay via QR code with most apps, etc.  After getting registered with the key apps which only takes around 5 minutes and maybe another 5 minutes to setup a debit/credit card payment option....you are good to go.  I registered with four charging apps (PEA Volta, PTT EV Station Pluz, EA Anywhere, and EGAT Elexa) which gives me access to 91% of the DC Fast Chargers around Thailand (i.e., can fully charge in around 1 hour) which are typically located located along roads people take for long trips.   If I remember right I had to use my Thai debit card as a payment option for two of the four apps as QR payment was not supported (yet)...but the other two apps were fine with QR payment....no absolute need to also setup Thai debit/credit card payment.   At first I thought getting registered and setting up a payment option would be a major issue for me---one each farang---but it turned out to be a non-issue.

 

But what can be an issue for a person is "day-to-day driving/keeping you EV charged" if you do not have easy access to a charger at/close to your residence like maybe living in a highrise and that highrise's parking area does not have any (or few) chargers forcing you to go visit a paid charger away from your residence for at least an hour or more periodically...possibly multiple times per week depending on how much you drive.  Then you have to dedicate some time each week to go spend time at a charging location which does take effort and time. 

 

But if you have a residence where you can install a Type II Wallcharger in your parking area then keeping your EV charged for day-to-day driving is a non-issue.  BYD (and others) provides and install a free 7KWH wallcharger which is worth around Bt10-20K.   A Type II charger is typically a 7KWH charger (but can be a higher power) which can fully charge from 0 to 100% in approx 7 to 10 hours depending on your EV's battery size.  In the unlikely event you arrive home with 0% charge left say at 9:30pm....plug the wall charger into the EV and by around sunrise the EV is fully charged...all done while you sleep.    

 

Now what is more likely say you are drive a BYD Atto 3 Extended Range (just for example) which has a 60KWH battery with 480Km advertised range (but more like 400Km in real world driving) which equates to 6.67Km per 1 KWH using 400Km range as your reference.  So, say on the average you drive 50Km/day...that would use a little less than 13% of charge each day....after a week/7 days of average driving you have used 91% of your charge...you have approx 9% remaining...getting close to empty. 

 

To get the EV back to 100% full charge you plug-in your 7KWH wallcharger and about 8 hours later you are fully charged again....good for another week of average driving.  But why chance getting down to around 9% after a full week of driving with no charging?....why not just plug the wallcharger in every night or every other night to stay close to be being fully charge....only takes about 15 seconds to plug the charger to the EV....not much longer than plugging a USB charging cable into your smartphone.   Heck, if only plugging in every 3 days your charge would have only dropped to around 60% of full charge...still have over a half tank of electric fuel.   

 

Yes, if you have easy access to a charger....like a wallcharger at home....charging is a non-issue for day to day driving.  And for long trips where you have to recharge along the way, then there are already a lot of DC Fast Charger (i.e., fully charge your EV in one hour or less) and also plenty of Type II chargers which can give you around 15% charge/hour--not to imply it's as easy & fast as a 5 minutes fill-up of diesel/petrol into a ICEV.   But being to charge during a long trip is not even remotely close to be a show-stopper....just requires an hour or so time being mated with a DC Fast Charger typically at fuel stations and other locations.  Getting very common for fuel stations along road to also have a big EV logo sign just under their main sign like how PTT station do it...and other fuel stations.  

 

EV charging will not be an issue for many people.  But an EV is not for everyone as it depends on how they use their vehicle, charging access, etc.  

 

In closing, I currently have a 2009 Fortuner which costs me 2.88 baht per kilometer in fuel cost....when I get my Atto 3 (hopefully tomorrow) my electric full cost per kilometer with be 0.92 baht....as 68% savings and I will do my Atto fueling from the wallcharger in my home carport vs a fuel station.  But I'll still be visiting fuel station some as I'm keeping my Fortuner which still looks and runs great...it will just be used a lot less....become my 2nd vehicle.

 

Gotta go...need to go to the bank to get a cashier's check cut to pay for my Atto tomorrow afternoon.

 

 

 

[Melpomene]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

Not an issue for trips....PLENTY of chargers in Thailand already...at fuel stations, malls, just lots of places, etc.   Just go to any website/use any app that shows charging locations...like the "plugshare.com" which is a crowd-based website to show charging locations.   Or use some of the charging station apps used to operate charging stations to see where chargers in that network are located. 

 

On the subject of road trips around Thailand and the frequency of charging stops.  I'm trying to work out what is the minimum range I should aim for the in the EV I eventually pick.  I've done some back of a fag packet calculations and wanted to get the views of the EV gurus in this discussion to see if my maths is anywhere near correct.

 

• Using an EV with an advertised range of 450kms as an example.  
• Starting at 100% charge, if I was to take a drive to Phuket from home in Bangkok at an average speed of around 80kmh then I could expect a real world range of around 400kms.  The trip distance is about 850kms
• Therefore, if I drove for around 5 hours I could run the battery to 0%.
• However, on a road trip you're never going to cut it that fine, so I'd be looking to stop to charge once I'm at between 20-30% or approx 80-120kms range.  I think I'd always want to play it safe as I don't like the idea of getting to a charging station with only only a couple of % to find it's not working.
• So the first stop would be after approx 280kms which would be after about 3.5 hours of driving.
• This first stop would recharge back up to around 80-90% or around 320-360 real world range.
• The second stop would again be at 20-30% charge which would only be about 200-240kms or 2.5 to 3 hours further down the road.
• I'm quite happy driving for 4-5 hours without a break, so this feels like I'd need to be stopping more often than I would want on this sort of trip.

 

• Using the same example with an EV with an advertised range of 650kms
• I could expect a real world range about 575kms @ 80kmh average.
• Which is over 7 hours to deplete the battery
• Therefore, the first stop at 20-30% (115-170kms remaining range) would be after around 5 hours of driving.  This would charge back unto 80-90% (460-520kms).
• Second stop would be after about a further 4 to 4.5 hours driving or 320km to 360kms further down the road.
• This feels much, much better to me based upon my driving habits on a long trip.

So if my maths above is correct, then I think there's a good number of cars that I can rule out of my search as we do do longer trips fairly frequently and needing to stop every 2-3 hours would, I think, irritate me.

[JBChiangRai]

4 hours ago, macahoom said:

I don't think we're getting it in Thailand.

 

I'm disappointed we're also not getting the two microphone karaoke which is standard in China.

 

Not that I would ever use it, but it's so ridiculous I'd like to have it.

Maybe you can order it from AliExpress, perhaps in the future it will be annoying OAP’s singing karaoke in their cars with the windows down cruising around town instead of teenagers with their booming speakers?

[Pib]

No doubt that for l....o......n.....g  trips such as Phuket-Bangkok the drive time is going to be longer due to the required recharging....simply can't compare a 5 minute fossil fueling to a 1 hour hour electric DC Fast Charge fueling.   Now while some people have no problem/prefer to drive non-stop if possible...even if it means 6 or more hours setting behind the steering wheel I'm not sure most people (especially families) drive that way.  Instead, breaks/stops every 2-3 hours is probably more the norm.   I sure know my Thai family/friends seem to take much longer to get where they are going on a long trip and when I  inquiry as to why it took so long rarely don't they say heavy traffic but say it was due to a good amount of bathroom and eating stops along the way.  I have some family members that simply can't go 2 hours without a bathroom stop

 

But yea, long trips are going to take longer with an BEV compared to an ICEV for anyone who has been use to few and brief stops along the way in their ICEV.    One positive of long drives using a BEV is the bigtime fuel savings....around half to two-thirds.  Fuel cost for my 3.0L diesel Fortuner round trip Phuket-Bangkok (1,700Km) would be apprxo Bt4,900 compared to approxBt2,000-2,500 for an EV (assumes higher DC Fast charging station cost/KWH).  And then when back home and able to use my wall charger for day-to-day driving around 1,700Km of driving would only cost around Bt1,600...a two-thirds fuel savings which really adds up over time.

 

Regarding the recharging...as to how much to recharge to...up to 80, 90, 100%.   Recharging up to 80-90% is indeed going to occur faster due to the nature of battery recharging...and that final 10-20% is going to be slower/take longer....probably twice as long per each 1 percent charge per unit of time. However, if you have a BEV with "LFP" lithium type batteries such as BYD vehicles you can charge them to 100% with no negative short or long term effects...gives more range between stops on long trips..  However, "NCA/NMC" lithium type batteries which many EVs use routinely charging to only around 90% is considered a good thing for extended battery life purposes....but more and more studies are beginning to show that even NCA/NMC type batteries show little negative effect from "frequent" DC Fast Charging and no negative effect from occasional DC Fast Charging.  So, all lithium batteries are not created equal.   

https://zecar.com/resources/what-are-lfp-nmc-nca-batteries-in-electric-cars

 

I don't think there is a BEV on the Thai market that can do 850Km non-stop....maybe a few in other countries but they would cost a LOT of money for the BIG battery.  Now  over the near term (next couple of years) I expect average BEV battery range will probably go up around 20% because bigger batteries in BEVs will become the norm as customers demand more range....not a huge jump but still very significant.  And when "solid state" batteries start coming to market in mass probably in around 5-7 years that's going to offer at least 20% increases in range while reducing charge time by a lot.   

https://electrek.co/2023/06/13/toyota-claims-solid-state-ev-battery-tech-breakthrough/

 

 

 

[JBChiangRai]

5 hours ago, macahoom said:

I don't think we're getting it in Thailand.

 

I'm disappointed we're also not getting the two microphone karaoke which is standard in China.

 

Not that I would ever use it, but it's so ridiculous I'd like to have it.

AliExpress do have the microphones, not cheap at about 2,500 each.

[Melpomene]

14 minutes ago, Pib said:

No doubt that for l....o......n.....g  trips such as Phuket-Bangkok the drive time is going to be longer due to the required recharging....simply can't compare a 5 minute fossil fueling to a 1 hour hour electric DC Fast Charge fueling.   Now while some people have no problem/prefer to drive non-stop if possible...even if it means 6 or more hours setting behind the steering wheel I'm not sure most people (especially families) drive that way.  Instead, breaks/stops every 2-3 hours is probably more the norm.   I sure know my Thai family/friends seem to take much longer to get where they are going on a long trip and when I  inquiry as to why it took so long rarely don't they say heavy traffic but say it was due to a good amount of bathroom and eating stops along the way.  I have some family members that simply can't go 2 hours without a bathroom stop

 

But yea, long trips are going to take longer with an BEV compared to an ICEV for anyone who has been use to few and brief stops along the way in their ICEV.    One positive of long drives using a BEV is the bigtime fuel savings....around half to two-thirds.  Fuel cost for my 3.0L diesel Fortuner round trip Phuket-Bangkok (1,700Km) would be apprxo Bt4,900 compared to approxBt2,000-2,500 for an EV (assumes higher DC Fast charging station cost/KWH).  And then when back home and able to use my wall charger for day-to-day driving around 1,700Km of driving would only cost around Bt1,600...a two-thirds fuel savings which really adds up over time.

 

Regarding the recharging...as to how much to recharge to...up to 80, 90, 100%.   Recharging up to 80-90% is indeed going to occur faster due to the nature of battery recharging...and that final 10-20% is going to be slower/take longer....probably twice as long per each 1 percent charge per unit of time. However, if you have a BEV with "LFP" lithium type batteries such as BYD vehicles you can charge them to 100% with no negative short or long term effects...gives more range between stops on long trips..  However, "NCA/NMC" lithium type batteries which many EVs use routinely charging to only around 90% is considered a good thing for extended battery life purposes....but more and more studies are beginning to show that even NCA/NMC type batteries show little negative effect from "frequent" DC Fast Charging and no negative effect from occasional DC Fast Charging.  So, all lithium batteries are not created equal.   

https://zecar.com/resources/what-are-lfp-nmc-nca-batteries-in-electric-cars

 

I don't think there is a BEV on the Thai market that can do 850Km non-stop....maybe a few in other countries but they would cost a LOT of money for the BIG battery.  Now  over the near term (next couple of years) I expect average BEV battery range will probably go up around 20% because bigger batteries in BEVs will become the norm as customers demand more range....not a huge jump but still very significant.  And when "solid state" batteries start coming to market in mass probably in around 5-7 years that's going to offer at least 20% increases in range while reducing charge time by a lot.   

https://electrek.co/2023/06/13/toyota-claims-solid-state-ev-battery-tech-breakthrough/

 

 

 

 

Yeah I agree, a very long journey is going to take more time in an EV than for someone who is driving an ICE car and ONLY stopping for petrol.  However, I don't think that's how most people would approach a very long drive.  You've got to stop for food a couple of time at least, so there's your charging windows sorted.  A longer range EV is realistically not going to take longer to complete a very long drive than an ICE car.  I think you would see a difference in some of the shorter range cars that would require additional charging stops.

[Andrew Dwyer]

1 hour ago, Melpomene said:

 

On the subject of road trips around Thailand and the frequency of charging stops.  I'm trying to work out what is the minimum range I should aim for the in the EV I eventually pick.  I've done some back of a fag packet calculations and wanted to get the views of the EV gurus in this discussion to see if my maths is anywhere near correct.

 

• Using an EV with an advertised range of 450kms as an example.  
• Starting at 100% charge, if I was to take a drive to Phuket from home in Bangkok at an average speed of around 80kmh then I could expect a real world range of around 400kms.  The trip distance is about 850kms
• Therefore, if I drove for around 5 hours I could run the battery to 0%.
• However, on a road trip you're never going to cut it that fine, so I'd be looking to stop to charge once I'm at between 20-30% or approx 80-120kms range.  I think I'd always want to play it safe as I don't like the idea of getting to a charging station with only only a couple of % to find it's not working.
• So the first stop would be after approx 280kms which would be after about 3.5 hours of driving.
• This first stop would recharge back up to around 80-90% or around 320-360 real world range.
• The second stop would again be at 20-30% charge which would only be about 200-240kms or 2.5 to 3 hours further down the road.
• I'm quite happy driving for 4-5 hours without a break, so this feels like I'd need to be stopping more often than I would want on this sort of trip.

 

• Using the same example with an EV with an advertised range of 650kms
• I could expect a real world range about 575kms @ 80kmh average.
• Which is over 7 hours to deplete the battery
• Therefore, the first stop at 20-30% (115-170kms remaining range) would be after around 5 hours of driving.  This would charge back unto 80-90% (460-520kms).
• Second stop would be after about a further 4 to 4.5 hours driving or 320km to 360kms further down the road.
• This feels much, much better to me based upon my driving habits on a long trip.

So if my maths above is correct, then I think there's a good number of cars that I can rule out of my search as we do do longer trips fairly frequently and needing to stop every 2-3 hours would, I think, irritate me.

It is something to consider definitely especially if travelling on a busy/holiday weekend.

I have been hanging back from placing an order for an EV for this very reason, in fact i have been deliberating which option would be best for me for quite a while now. (I’m the man who put the “ pro “ in procrastination ).

Originally I was decided on an Atto 3 with an estimated, based on my driving style, range of around 380 - 400 km, but that didn’t seem like enough as my frequent middle length journeys are around a 420 km round trip and would have liked just a little bit more.

So then i decided on an HEV for the longer trips and a small EV ( Dolphin or even Neta V ) for the local stuff.

 

But, I am the only driver in a family of 4 so it seemed overkill to have two vehicles.

 

Decisions , decisions …….. what to do ??

 

Then it appeared, BYD Seal Premium with a 650 km ( realistically 550 ? ) range , when I saw it i knew it was the car for me, can’t fault it on any level, beautiful design and a great price.

Just waiting now on delivery, quoted around 40 days.

 

So, yes, an EV needs more deliberation than an ICE and I think there will be a lot of choices in the next couple of years with Changan arriving shortly and I think Neta will up their game here.

[macahoom]

46 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

AliExpress do have the microphones, not cheap at about 2,500 each.

Damnit! Don't tell my girlfriend!

[JBChiangRai]

2 minutes ago, macahoom said:

Damnit! Don't tell my girlfriend!

I promised your neighbours, I wouldn’t tell you

[KhunLA]

2 hours ago, Melpomene said:

 

On the subject of road trips around Thailand and the frequency of charging stops.  I'm trying to work out what is the minimum range I should aim for the in the EV I eventually pick.  I've done some back of a fag packet calculations and wanted to get the views of the EV gurus in this discussion to see if my maths is anywhere near correct.

 

• Using an EV with an advertised range of 450kms as an example.  
• Starting at 100% charge, if I was to take a drive to Phuket from home in Bangkok at an average speed of around 80kmh then I could expect a real world range of around 400kms.  The trip distance is about 850kms
• Therefore, if I drove for around 5 hours I could run the battery to 0%.
• However, on a road trip you're never going to cut it that fine, so I'd be looking to stop to charge once I'm at between 20-30% or approx 80-120kms range.  I think I'd always want to play it safe as I don't like the idea of getting to a charging station with only only a couple of % to find it's not working.
• So the first stop would be after approx 280kms which would be after about 3.5 hours of driving.
• This first stop would recharge back up to around 80-90% or around 320-360 real world range.
• The second stop would again be at 20-30% charge which would only be about 200-240kms or 2.5 to 3 hours further down the road.
• I'm quite happy driving for 4-5 hours without a break, so this feels like I'd need to be stopping more often than I would want on this sort of trip.

 

• Using the same example with an EV with an advertised range of 650kms
• I could expect a real world range about 575kms @ 80kmh average.
• Which is over 7 hours to deplete the battery
• Therefore, the first stop at 20-30% (115-170kms remaining range) would be after around 5 hours of driving.  This would charge back unto 80-90% (460-520kms).
• Second stop would be after about a further 4 to 4.5 hours driving or 320km to 360kms further down the road.
• This feels much, much better to me based upon my driving habits on a long trip.

So if my maths above is correct, then I think there's a good number of cars that I can rule out of my search as we do do longer trips fairly frequently and needing to stop every 2-3 hours would, I think, irritate me.

Your #s are pretty good.   At 30%, I'll start to think about a CS, as don't like to go below 20%.  Your estimate of 80 kph is about right, and what we average when I got the CC set to 90 kph on open roads.

 

Our MG rated at WLTP 320 kms, so using 300 kms (at speed(>47kph 'tested), we're good for 3+ hrs, which I'm ready for a break by then, if not sooner.  That's 250 ish kms, w/50 kms reserve.  Them longer drives are way behind me.  

 

Important thing, is to know where the next CS is along your route, in case the one you're stopping at is inop.  It has happened.  Or if traveling weekends, may have a Q, not happened yet, and probably just luck.

 

Probably means you won't be looking at MGs, unless a LR version, as all 3 standard versions have a 51kWh (46kWh usable) battery and same specs, ~300 kms on highway at speed/90 kph.  Added plus of MG, can use their CS if having MG or member card to charge, which you get w/the car, and no other way that I'm aware of.  Guess same would apply to BYD.  Actually our preferred CS, unless hungry.

 

Probably mentioned, if multiple stops along the way, you'll get there faster if just charging up to 90%, as the last bit (MGs) is very slow adding.

 

There really is no shortage of CSs, especially on main roads.