Motorcyclist killed as 18 wheel truck turns into company in Samut Prakan

[webfact]

Picture: Siam Rath

 

Siam Rath reported on a road traffic accident that resulted in the death of a 30 year old motorcyclist in Rachathewa sub-district of Samut Prakan yesterday around noon.

 

An 18 wheel truck driven by Prawit, 35, was in the central lane and was turning into the Grating Fortune Container Service (Thailand) company.

 

A Honda click ridden by Pongthep, 20, came up the inside at speed and lost control mounting the footpath then hitting a lamppost.

 

Picture: Siam Rath

 

Pongthep died at the scene.

 

His mother said he was coming home after the night shift.

 

Prawit is helping the Bang Kaew police with their inquiries.

 

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[Liverpool Lou]

As the report specifically states that the truck didn't hit the motorcyclist who died after losing control of his speeding bike, mounting the pavement and hitting a lamp post, what's the relevance of the headline implying that the truck killed him?

[worgeordie]

Did the truck have it's indicators on  ,showing it intended to turn

in  ? , if no, then it's the truck drivers fault, but we all know ,lots

of them still try to get past when your turning in, they cannot wait.

RIP the motorbike rider ,

 

regards worgeordie

[sammieuk1]

There is no driving control left here to loose ????

[OneMoreFarang]

There are too few details to know what exactly happened here and who is in part or fully responsible for the accident.

I ride motorcycle in Bangkok and I find it always sad how many motorcycle riders just see somewhere a (little) part of free road and then they decide that they can squeeze into that space. Why?

How many of these riders think about any possible risk?

What is described above with a truck happens all the time with cars. I.e. a car is standing or slow moving in a corner to the left and obviously the car has to be kind of in the middle of the lane so that it can turn. But many motorcycle riders just squeeze in the little "free" space. Except that space is not free anymore when the car makes the turn.

And if the car makes the turn and there is still a bike there then many riders complain why the car is doing that. They don't even realize that they should never squeeze into that space.

It's sad enough if nobody teaches this to riders in riding school but if they have done this a few times one would think they learn from that experience and don't do it again. But no, it seems very few learn from their mistakes or the mistakes of others.

 

I don't know how much is luck and how much knowledge and how much patients, but riding my bike in Bangkok I didn't have any real dangerous situations in years. I think mostly because I look at intentions of others and what could possibly happen. It's just stupid to assume everybody will drive in their lanes and use indicators and follow the rules. That is not reality. Ride careful, be patient, and likely that will extend the life expectancy.

 

Obviously it is impossible to prevent all accidents. But it is possible to prevent some of them.

[thailand49]

From the photo if this is the actual? 

As a former driver and tractor instructor as for the truck can't see if a signal was given but really is secondary. Notice the gap given by the operate Of the truck there is a saying for truckers " if you allow it to happen most likely it will "  untrained properly there is too much of a gap so large it invites " the gap should have been closed 7 or more seconds prior to executing the turn even then it is standard practice to execute after one double check. In this case I think the gap was so large the biker thought I'm going to blow through but I going to guess the trucker did double check and saw the biker at the last minute only way to confirm is to check for tire marks of the truck. The gap distant should have been closed to half if not more to make the biker think twice and slow down. 

As for the bike undertaking and overtaking although allowed is illegal within the distant of an intersection for very good reason when a vehicle stops or slow down on the road it is for a reason! Here it isn't taught or mentioned to simple slow down and do it with caution.  I've seen countless of accident and 4 death from this photo this is what the bike seem to be doing on my opinion. 

 

Edited April 29, 2022 by thailand49

[hotchilli]

Life in the fast lane, middle lane, slow lane makes no difference.. 

read the road and make a decision, he made a mistake and paid the price.

[cardinalblue]

At least he got immediate feedback for a poor driving decision…his fault end of story 

 

the truck driver was following the rules of the road…indicate left hand turn….turn left…..end of story 

[jchfriis]

7 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

It's sad enough if nobody teaches this to riders in riding school but if they have done this a few times one would think they learn from that experience and don't do it again. But no, it seems very few learn from their mistakes or the mistakes of others.

I think your post is spot on. I just doubt that 99 percent of the motorcyclist in Thailand have been to a riding school. I´ve taken the test for the license for both car and motorcycle here and its laughable.

[Liverpool Lou]

8 hours ago, worgeordie said:

Did the truck have it's indicators on  ,showing it intended to turn

in  ? , if no, then it's the truck drivers fault,

Did the truck in the middle lane hit the speeding motorcyclist in the left lane before he mounted the pavement and killed himself against a lamp post?   

[Moonlover]

9 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Did the truck in the middle lane hit the speeding motorcyclist in the left lane before he mounted the pavement and killed himself against a lamp post?   

If he did hit the truck, then the motorcyclist was riding far too close to side of the truck for his own safety. He'd quite likely be in the driver's blind spot, not visible through the mirror.

 

IMO the motorcyclist is completely at fault here. If he did hit the truck, then he was far too close, if he didn't then there's was still an opening big enough to have a got car through, let alone a motorcycle.

 

Overtaking on the left on a motorcycle is a dangerous practice at the best of times. When it's a large truck it's doubly so. I never, ever do it.

[Andre0720]

I find that Thai people are very good drivers. They were taught mainly by their parents who raced them to school and back. Their driving skills are exceptional.

And this is demonstrated by the fact that sooo many drivers make it back home, after racing to save 5 or 6 seconds. They simply have to be ahead of all other drivers, and must save those seconds.

And at that speed, some circumstances will make some drivers not make it home.

There are a few countries in this world who can compete for most dangerous place to drive.

The way Thais drive, if they were bad drivers, there would be no country in this world getting even close to be able to compete for the most deaths on the roads.

[worgeordie]

10 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Did the truck in the middle lane hit the speeding motorcyclist in the left lane before he mounted the pavement and killed himself against a lamp post?   

Did the truck have his indicators on ,so motorbike rider could see he was going

to turn in, driving an artic he had to be in middle lane to be able to make the

turn ,but like I said , no matter if truck had indicators on, motorbikes will always

try to get past if they see a space, so it's 6 and two 3's , the police will have

to sort it out.

regards Worgeordie

[Excel]

19 hours ago, sammieuk1 said:

There is no driving control left here to loose ????

Correct, most motorcyclists are complete cretins when it comes to road safety awareness. Shame for the family they have lost possibly their breadwinner but the avoidable death toll on Thai roads will continue until proper enforcement and driver training is in place.

[Road Warrior]

sad - RIP  -- so common with thai drivers . so silly and so dangerous /they will never learn !

[actonion]

Too many M otorbikes "undertake" instead of overtake ... for a bike to pass   to the left of any moving vehicle  is Suicide, only themselves to blame, unless its a farang that you are undertaking, then  we all know who  will be blamed

[seajae]

how many times do we see bike riders flying down near the inside of the left lane between cars/trucks and the footpath/gutter because they dont want to slow down. The amount of times I would have had the car door torn off or my arm damaged  by a bike rider if I hadnt checked first is staggering, they simply dont care or think about it, they see a space and just go for it, a turning car/truck  just doesnt stop them trying to get through before they block the space.  Speed and not wanting to stop for anyone else is the problem, the lack of thinking at times also doesnt help, I have even had  bike riders on my left hand side try to do a uturn/right turn across the front of my car while I am moving forwards at traffic lights, they just think they can do as they please and everyone else will stop for them

[Thunglom]

Always the same wildly racist insults about Thai people without really looking into WHY these accidents happen.

An unquestioning acceptance of the media coverage and the authorities total ignorance of road safety means there has been no significant change in nearly 3 decades - the explanation is not that tHais are inherently bad drivers at all....it is the overall driving environment that is to blame.

[richard_smith237]

On 4/30/2022 at 7:49 AM, worgeordie said:

On 4/29/2022 at 9:00 PM, Liverpool Lou said:

Did the truck in the middle lane hit the speeding motorcyclist in the left lane before he mounted the pavement and killed himself against a lamp post?   

Did the truck have his indicators on ,so motorbike rider could see he was going

to turn in, driving an artic he had to be in middle lane to be able to make the

turn ,but like I said , no matter if truck had indicators on, motorbikes will always

try to get past if they see a space, so it's 6 and two 3's , the police will have

to sort it out.

regards Worgeordie

The video of this incident was posted on a facebook group two days ago [Bad Driving in Thailand].

 

https://fb.watch/cLI4zA3slZ/

 

The truck is travelling quite quickly in the middle lane.

The truck is indicating left. 

The truck slows quickly and swings left. 

At the same time the motorcyclist, ignoring the trucks turn signal approaches at speed and swerves to avoid the turning truck. 

The truck stops, the motorcyclist never hits the truck. 

The motorcyclists ’swerving action’ takes him onto the pavement and into a lamp-post. 

 

The motorcyclist was riding quickly and not wearing a helmet. 

The truck driver was not cautious of his surroundings when turning left from the middle lane and ‘should’ have approached the turn with more care (more slowly) to ensure everyone nearby was aware of the sweeping turn he was about to make. 

 

Again - as usual and incident in occurs because both parties driving without concept of consequence.

The truck driver unaware of the consequences of making a sudden turn from the centre lane. 

The motorcycles unaware of the consequences of undertaking a truck in the muddle lane and riding at speed. 

 

 

 

Edited May 2, 2022 by richard_smith237

[richard_smith237]

On 4/30/2022 at 9:12 PM, Thunglom said:

Always the same wildly racist insults about Thai people without really looking into WHY these accidents happen.

An unquestioning acceptance of the media coverage and the authorities total ignorance of road safety means there has been no significant change in nearly 3 decades - the explanation is not that tHais are inherently bad drivers at all....it is the overall driving environment that is to blame.

A fair point. 

 

But why is the ‘overall driving environment’ as it is ?

What is to blame for this?  or rather, who ? Thai culture ?

 

For road safety in Thailand to improve there needs to be a cultural shift towards safety. 

This falls at the feet of those in positions of decision making power to effect change.

Unfortunately, those in positions of decision making power don’t care and do not hold accountable those responsible for allowing Thailands road culture and system to continue as it does. 

 

Improvement is a huge task from road design, to driver education, to policing, to a general shift in cultural attitudes and social responsibility. 

 

Are Thai’s to blame ???.... at whose feet does the responsibility lie ? If not Thailand's population from top to bottom, then who else ?

 

 

 

 

 

[Thunglom]

40 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

But why is the ‘overall driving environment’ as it is ?

What is to blame for this?  or rather, who ? Thai culture ?

Yes - I agree, it's a massive task and tit needs a government that understands the situation to start making these changes.

However many countries are achieving this and road deaths injuries and damage cost Thailand trillions of baht every year. between 3% and 6 % ofGDP.

 

Adopting the Safe System will not only save lives, it will save the country money.

 

30 to 40 years ago many European countries and even the USA had similar statistics to Thailand, yet there ae now countries in Europe going for ZERO death rates.

 

the shift in "culture" may even require constitutional changes - i.e. the police and courts - but there is no other way.

 

Change isn't a sudden thing - The interesting thing about the Safe System is it has similar precedents - for instance the anti-littering campaigns brought about a change in national thinking in many countries. Th recent publicity of pedestrian crossings  has certainly had an effect on public awareness and if the government takes up internationally approved scientifically proven policies then change may start. most people in the west are totally unaware of how road safety affects their everyday life, but they now have a driving environment that is comparatively safe. Nothing to do with "bad driving" - it is government policies and science.

 

 

Edited May 2, 2022 by Thunglom

[Thunglom]

The situation is a result of bad road design and coal government regulation. In order to have an entrance on a main rod like that in other countries, one would need planning permission for the entrance this would need to be suitable for traffic to access without having to mover into the middle lane. The company should be told to redesign the entrance - widen it to allow trucks to manoeuvre on the premises, no t on the road. This is a problem with the U-turns on older Thai highways.

There would also be an accident report, calibrated by a special appointed department - usually part of the police. They would measure up all aspects of the vehicles, calculate speeds etc and then analyse the road surfaces and would find out exactly what happened to the motorcycle an rider.

Many would argue that the biker should have worked out what the truth was doing, but if that makeover was not possible or needed then the situation would never have arisen. The key to road safety is to anticipate dangerous situations and engineer roads so that it is not possible to happen. This is how roads are engineered in countries whereto death rate is in single figures

 

Edited May 2, 2022 by Thunglom

[richard_smith237]

25 minutes ago, Thunglom said:

Nothing to do with "bad driving" - it is government policies and science.

Kind of.... The ‘bad driving’ is a result of government policies, or rather ineffectiveness of any government action or inaction and ignorance of the science....

 

Ultimately, the driving / riding is bad - that that is still down to everyone from individuals to society to governments. 

 

People know they ‘should’ wear good helmets - they already have that education, they just choose not to bother. That is their own fault and that of the government and police. 

People know they should not drink and drive..... again, same reasons.

 

The issue is multifaceted and individuals are part of that facet.

[Meat Pie 47]

deleted

Edited May 2, 2022 by Meat Pie 47
wrong post

[richard_smith237]

16 minutes ago, Thunglom said:

The situation is a result of bad road design and coal government regulation. In order to have an entrance on a main rod like that in other countries, one would need planning permission for the entrance this would need to be suitable for traffic to access without having to mover into the middle lane. The company should be told to redesign the entrance - widen it to allow trucks to manoeuvre on the premises, no t on the road. This is a problem with the U-turns on older Thai highways.

There would also be an accident report, calibrated by a special appointed department - usually part of the police. They would measure up all aspects of the vehicles, calculate speeds etc and then analyse the road surfaces and would find out exactly what happened to the motorcycle an rider.

Many would argue that the biker should have worked out what the truth was doing, but if that makeover was not possible or needed then the situation would never have arisen. The key to road safety is to anticipate dangerous situations and engineer roads so that it is not possible to happen. This is how roads are engineered in countries whereto death rate is in single figures

 

Absolutely agree...

 

Yet also, when in my car I turn left into a ‘normal street’ I have to hug the left side of the road to prevent motorcyclists from squeezing up the inside. 

Sometimes, when I’m not far enough left, as I slow I have to stop for the motorcyclist which has squeed up the inside - I’ve lost count of the times I’m turning left, or right, and a motorcyclist undertakes or over takes me.

Of course, it always looks a lot closer when in a car than on a motorcycle (I both ride and drive here).

 

 

I have often wondered: IF all Thailand’s roads were suddenly engineered with the same engineering, design and safety features as many European countries would there would be a reduction in accidents ??? - I think it's obvious there would be. However, a lot of the same ‘dumb-stuff’ would still occur because a lot the the riders and drivers just do outrageously stupid stuff.

 

The roads in Thailand are engineered poorly, but they are in the UK, especially in the towns. 

The vast majority of the UK’s roads in the countryside are from era which preexists motorised traffic the design is terrible. Of course accidents happen, but we just don’t see the ’speeding through a cross roads’ type accidents to the same degree we do in Thailand - People are to blame for a lot of the accidents, or rather, a lack of education of the people. 

 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

2 minutes ago, Meat Pie 47 said:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1014566385582946

This is the video of the incident in question...  https://fb.watch/cLI4zA3slZ/

 

 

[Thunglom]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

Ultimately, the driving / riding is bad - that that is still down to everyone from individuals to society to governments. 

Bad driving is a subjective term and at best it is a symptom not a cause. Thailand actually has the same number (slightly higher) of crashes as the UK - it's the results that are so much worse. It has been shown tover the decades that policies that blame drivers don't have any significant affect of road deaths figures.

[Thunglom]

53 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

This is the video of the incident in question...  https://fb.watch/cLI4zA3slZ/

 

 

So absolutely no way that truck should have turned there.

[Thunglom]

55 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Absolutely agree...

 

Yet also, when in my car I turn left into a ‘normal street’ I have to hug the left side of the road to prevent motorcyclists from squeezing up the inside. 

Sometimes, when I’m not far enough left, as I slow I have to stop for the motorcyclist which has squeed up the inside - I’ve lost count of the times I’m turning left, or right, and a motorcyclist undertakes or over takes me.

Of course, it always looks a lot closer when in a car than on a motorcycle (I both ride and drive here).

 

 

I have often wondered: IF all Thailand’s roads were suddenly engineered with the same engineering, design and safety features as many European countries would there would be a reduction in accidents ??? - I think it's obvious there would be. However, a lot of the same ‘dumb-stuff’ would still occur because a lot the the riders and drivers just do outrageously stupid stuff.

 

The roads in Thailand are engineered poorly, but they are in the UK, especially in the towns. 

The vast majority of the UK’s roads in the countryside are from era which preexists motorised traffic the design is terrible. Of course accidents happen, but we just don’t see the ’speeding through a cross roads’ type accidents to the same degree we do in Thailand - People are to blame for a lot of the accidents, or rather, a lack of education of the people. 

 

 

 

 

 

Thailand has a default "priority from the left rule so traffic coming on the inside is a characteristic of driving in Thailand that is one aspect that can genuinely be attributed to culture.

There is another aspect to driving in Thailand that most foreigners are unaware of, but if they knew it, it would make driving in Thailand so much easier for them – it is that of the RIVER.

If you drive in Thailand as if you are in aboat on ariver, everything suddenly makes complete sense!

“If all Thailand’s roads were suddenly engineered with the same engineering, design and safety features as many European countries would there would be a reduction in accidents ??? - I think it's obvious there would be. However, a lot of the same ‘dumb-stuff’ would still occur because a lot the the riders and drivers just do outrageously stupid stuff."

Nothing is going to happen suddenly – to correct a lot of the highways in Thailand, they would need to be dug up and rebuilt from start. Part of road design is traffic engineering (I used to work in a traffic engineering dept). It is one of the 5 Es of road safety.

A road that is constructed and designed correctly makes it nigh-on impossible for idiots to drive the way they want to. There are no fewer idiots in countries like the UK, they just can't do want they want.

Signage, lanes, bollards turns etc are designed in such a way that people can only go the way the traffic engineers has intended.

Part of the problem with roads in Thailand is that due to corruption they aren't even built properly right from the start. You can tell how corrupt a country is by looking at the roads - if construction companies cut back or sell off materials intended for construction the roads soon show signs of this...uneven, sagging undulating etc - the surfaces are made with substandard asphalt and markings disappear with wear and tear, bad light or rain.

(did you know that in the UK there is a friction stand that is applied and tested to double yellow lines? - that's how much detail goes into a street in UK)

Many people complain about potholes in the UK because the routine maintenance on many roads is the responsibility of local authorities who have tried to cut back on maintenance - this has created an uproar in the last few years and is hindering t gradual elimination of road deaths. In Thailand roads - even new ones - are habitually damaged and left unrepaired for long periods but no-one complains - the poor surface construction not only has bad friction characteristics, it leads to uneven ridges between lanes and longitudinal scars, all of which are likely to bring down motorcyclist or make them lose control.

UK roads aren't engineered particularly poorly they are however in someplace poorly maintained - there is a difference.

 In UK as in Thailand different authorities are responsible for maintaining roads but the Thailand system is wide open to corruption practices. There are also varying authorities in large on different highway networks

A big difference is seen on motorways - in the UK a crash can totally close a motorway (for hours) and a team will go in who specialise in assessing the damage caused to the carriage way and order anything up to a complete resurfacing before the motorway is re-opened. In Thailand traffic is usually allowed to crawl through whilst the accident /ambulance crews are working. Once the vehicles have been removed, the carriageway is left unchecked with all the gouges and marks left unexamined to be filled in casually whenever someone can be bothered. These can be lethal. Furthermore bits of wreckage are often left littering the road – these can be picked up by other vehicles and catapulted into other traffic , simply cause tires to explode.

The difference between the 2 countries is so big it is hard to imagine - with the Thai road authorities these sorts of teams/crews simply don't exist.

One aspect that is easy to see as you drive round Thailand is road "furniture". Signage, lighting, barriers, and items on the sides and meridians of roads. Many roads in Thailand have trees rowing and billboards etc erected on the sides of roads - not only do these obscure visibility, they also act as dangerous obstacles for vehicles that for any reason may have lost control and left the carriageway. In Europe most highways use Armco barriers on the sides and meridians of roads. Sides and meridians are also kept as clear as possible of items that could increase damage to careening vehicles. A key point in road safety is to keep oncoming traffic separate - no crossing over onto the other side.  Few roads in Thailand are fitted with this - although it is increasingly happening. However these barriers have to be fitted correctly at the right height and I suspect in Thailand this is a very hit or miss affair. A rather disturbing version of this is the concrete deflection barriers with if used incorrectly increase damage to vehicles and occupants and send them back into the traffic to cause more damage.

 

When it comes to driver themselves – the sooner we drop the “blame game” the better. Most accidents are NOT caused by wildly stupid drivers they are caused by simple, elemental human error.  The Safe System acknowledges this and aims to create an environment where drivers do not pay for these mistakes with their lives.

Unlike the traditional approach to road safety, the Safe System - https://www.brake.org.uk/get-involved/take-action/mybrake/knowledge-centre/safe-system - approach recognises that human error is no longer the primary cause of accidents. Rather, a failure of the road system is the cause of many collisions that result in death or serious injury4. It also shapes interventions to meet the long-term goal of zero deaths and serious injuries, rather than relying on traditional interventions to set the limits of any long-term targets5

 

Human beings make mistakes. If human fallibility is an unfortunate constant, we must work to make our road and traffic systems as safe as possible – this is the Safe System Approach. 

Motorcycle riders, cyclists, pedestrians and those who have physical limitations, such as people with disabilities, children and older persons are relatively unprotected and, therefore, more vulnerable to serious injury and death. They need to be protected, and they need the tools to protect themselves. 

 

As for things like driving through lights etc – firstly you are making assumptions – you need statistics to back this up. The premise raises other issues – the first is the design of junctions and positioning of lights lane markings etc., that allow such things to happen, The nest is enforcement – in Europe most lights have cameras – then there is a fine and penalty system that has a court system that can enforce those penalties – in Thailand the chances are nothing will happen – but if you use Goole or YouTube, you’ll find hundreds of examples of “loonie” driving in UK and all over the world.

I’ll just put a reminder of the 5Es here….

1. Education

2. Enforcement

3. Engineering

4. Emergency

5. Evaluation

It is ESSENTIAL that all of these are adopted and that the fixation with “bad drivers” is consigned to the bin. 

The “blame game” is the enemy of safety culture. Road safety is a public health issue.

There is also an E for elephant in the room in Thailand, and that is EMERGENCY – Thailand has no central emergency system with standardised ambulances, no fully trained first responders and a patchy array of A&E departments -victims are often moved from one hospital to another before they die ,and the “Golden hour” is jut not heard of in the Thai healthcare system as a whole.

So not only is this a Thai cultural problem, it involves breath-taking ignorance by the Thai authorities and this culture pervades a large number of farang expats in Thailand too. It is a sad result of a successful Safe System in their home countries that they are unaware of it and have erroneously attributed it  to their perceived “good driving”

 

[Thunglom]

PS - this outlines what "HUMAN ERROR" actually is

 

What is “human error”?

 

It has been shown that human error falls largely into one of three principle categories. 

 

First is a perceptual error. Critical information that is below the threshold for seeing - the light was too dim, the driver was blinded by the glare, or the pedestrian's clothes had low contrast. In other cases, the driver made a perceptual misjudgement (a curve's radius or another car's speed or distance). Or in Thailand, just tinted windows!

 

Second and far more common cause is that the critical information was detectable but that the driver failed to attend/notice because his mental resources were focussed elsewhere. Often times, a driver will claim that s/he did not "see" a plainly visible pedestrian or car. This is entirely possible because much of our information processing occurs outside of awareness. - (Mack and Rock, 1998)[1]

 

Third, the driver may correctly process the information but fail to choose the correct response ("I'm skidding, so I'll turn away from the skid") or make the correct decision yet fail to carry it out ("I meant to hit the brake, but I hit the gas"). 

 

Thailand has had a lot of advice from road safety organisations both home and abroad, but somehow this advice does not get through and is overruled by the archaic “we know best” prejudices of successive ill-informed governments and they fail to understand the basic concept of “human error” as opposed to “blame”.

 

 

[1] (Mack and Rock (1998) have shown that we can be less likely to perceive an object if we are looking directly at it than if it falls outside the centre of the visual field. This "inattentional blindness" phenomenon is certainly the cause of many RTIs)