£0.6bn a year to uprate UK pensions for Thai retirees

[Liverpool Lou]

On 5/12/2022 at 1:25 PM, Flink said:

On 5/12/2022 at 10:56 AM, Liverpool Lou said:

Nonsense...unless you can back that up with specific evidence, not hearsay.

Will this do, seeing as it is feom the UK government website?:

This from the Gov.uk site:
Asylum support
1.    Overview
2.    What you'll get
3.    Eligibility
4.    How to claim
5.    Further information
What you'll get
You can ask for somewhere to live, a cash allowance or both as an asylum seeker.
Housing
You’ll be given somewhere to live if you need it. This could be in a flat, house, hostel or bed and breakfast.
You cannot choose where you live. It’s unlikely you’ll get to live in London or south-east England.
Cash support
You’ll get £40.85 for each person in your household. This will help you pay for things you need like food, clothing and toiletries.
Your allowance will be loaded onto a debit card (ASPEN card) each week. You’ll be able to use the card to get cash from a cash machine.
If you’ve been refused asylum
You’ll be given:
•    somewhere to live
•    £40.85 per person on a payment card for food, clothing and toiletries
You will not be given:
•    the payment card if you do not take the offer of somewhere to live
•    any money
So, the latest government figures show that 37,000 illegals/asylum seekers is costing 4.7million pounds a day foraccommodation alone. That's 127.02 per person per day. Add in the 5.83 on their payment card, free meals (forthose in hotel accommodation) Wi-Fi, no electricity bills, water bills council tax. Here are the figures:

1.     Food - Assuming you live by yourself, the average monthly grocery bill for one person in the UK is £137 (£32 per week).  (Source: https://themindfulmoneyproject.com/average-food-budget-in-the-uk-how-do-you-compare/)

2.     Electricity - Data published by Ofgem, the energy market regulator, shows that in September 2021 the average UK energy bill was £95 per month, or £1,138 a year. (Source: https://www.edfenergy.com/for-home/energywise/what-is-the-average-energy-bill-in-the-uk)

3.     Internet/Wi-Fi - On average, you should expect to pay around $60 a month for high-speed internet. However, prices can range between $20 and $100 per month or more depending on where you live, which provider you choose, and which plan you go with. (Source: https://www.move.org/how-much-pay-for-internet/)

4.     Water - the average UK household's bill for water and sewage at £385 per year, or about £32 per month. (Source: https://www.uswitch.com/water/price-of-water/)

Total per week –             Food                                                £32.00

                                           Electricity                                        £23.75

                                           Internet                                           £15.00

                                           Water                                              £7.40

                                           Rent                                                 £127.02

Total cost pp/wk                                                                      £205.17

 

Additional payment (via prepaid card)                                 £40.85

Each illegal asylum arrival in the UK therefore receives up to £246.02 per week from government funds, even after their asylum claim has been rejected.

Conversely:

The full new State Pension is £185.15 per week. The actual amount you get depends on your National Insurance record.(Source: https://www.gov.uk/new-state-pension/what-youll-get#:~:text=The%20full%20new%20State%20Pension,amount%20of%20Additional%20State%20Pension)

So, the British government spends, on average, £60.90 more per week on illegal asylum seekers than on their own people who have contributed NIC payments for decades.

Does that satisfy your desire for details?

"Does that satisfy your desire for details?"

No, it sure does not.   My comment clearly referred to illegal immigrants, not asylum seekers whose benefits you quoted.   There's a difference.

 

Post some details of what financial benefits illegal immigrants, not asylum, seekers are "entitled" to and I'll be satisfied with eating humble pie.

Edited May 13, 2022 by Liverpool Lou

[proton]

8 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

"Does that satisfy your desire for details?"

No, it sure does not.   My comment clearly referred to illegal immigrants, not asylum seekers whose benefits you quoted.   There's a difference.

 

Post some details of what financial benefits illegal immigrants, not asylum, seekers are "entitled" to and I'll be satisfied with eating humble pie.

They all get 40 quid a week, my friend, herself an illegal overstayer at one time, use to process 'asylum claims'. She told me 95% are a pack of lies.

[metisdead]

An inflammatory post has been removed.

[ivor bigun]

On 5/12/2022 at 9:41 AM, SatEng said:

If you don't like immigrants - don't be one

yes but us immigrants pay our way ,get nothing free ,not like the scroungers that arrive in rubber boats from "war torn France"

[Derek B]

On 5/12/2022 at 7:37 AM, ThaiFelix said:

Well one solution would be to stop getting involved in pointless wars such as in Iraq and Afghanistan, that would save heaps for the pensions and save a lot of young mens lives.

Not to mention local lives.

 

[Derek B]

If you retire with a full state pension entitlement having contributed to the max whilst residing in the UK then where you reside upon retirement should have no impact on the Government's ability to pay the increases as if living in the UK - unless those increases are linked in law directly to the UK's cost of living index which I believe they currently are not.

 

[Derek B]

On 5/12/2022 at 3:40 AM, webfact said:

UK expenditure on health care costs depends on where the UK pensioner settles.

Why mention this? If a non-resident NHS treatment is no longer available free of charge. So there is a cost saving to the Government.

[Liverpool Lou]

16 hours ago, proton said:

17 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

"Does that satisfy your desire for details?"

No, it sure does not.   My comment clearly referred to illegal immigrants, not asylum seekers whose benefits you quoted.   There's a difference.

 

Post some details of what financial benefits illegal immigrants, not asylum, seekers are "entitled" to and I'll be satisfied with eating humble pie.

Expand  

They all get 40 quid a week

Thy do not.  Please read my comments properly, I'm talking about illegal immigrants, not asylum-seekers, so can you back that up with something empirical, not hearsay from "your friend", an ex-illegal overstayer?   It's ok, I know that you can't.

[Liverpool Lou]

On 5/12/2022 at 11:16 PM, WildBillHiccup said:

I hope that I have got my point across - but Heads Up my Thai is very poor

No, you haven't got your point across but, heads up, it seems that your English may not be much better than your Thai - UK pensioners in the Philippines get the increases but you left it off your list.  Why?

Edited May 14, 2022 by Liverpool Lou

[Liverpool Lou]

On 5/12/2022 at 11:16 PM, WildBillHiccup said:

I wonder if this (Thai) minister realises just how much money the Thais are

losing – and have lost - over the years? Must be an eyewatering amount

Do you have any idea of the low level that the annual increase is?   But, you're right, the amount that the Thai economy has missed out on must be "eye-watering"...eye-wateringly small.

[Liverpool Lou]

On 5/12/2022 at 11:16 PM, WildBillHiccup said:

if my suggestion should be taken further a more qualified person would need to hop aboard.

No kidding?

[Liverpool Lou]

On 5/13/2022 at 7:40 AM, stephenterry said:

I reckon our chance of success is close to zero.

The chance of success is zero!   That has been proven for decades.

[SatEng]

4 hours ago, ivor bigun said:

yes but us immigrants pay our way ,get nothing free ,not like the scroungers that arrive in rubber boats from "war torn France"

As with all racists you like to be derogatory to all immigrants, whether they come as legal, illegal, asylum seekers etc. 

The truth is, and there are figures to back it up, that immigration to the UK has been a net benefit - your so-called scroungers, when taken on average, contribute positively to the economy and therefore lower the overall cost of services for everyone.

But racist bigots do not like such "facts" they prefer unsubstantiated anecdotal stories passed around in a pub of immigrants costing the NHS millions.

I have an anecdotal story for you - but this one is true - I had the great pleasure some years ago to employ a young man of Afghanistan origin, his father had fled persecution there being a doctor and they arrived via the "actually" war-torn Beirut - arriving at 12 with no English - this young man gained his PhD by the time he was 21 and has had a very laudable career since then contributing to major UK flagship technical programs.

I would take this "scrounger" over a racist bigot any day    

[bert bloggs]

6 hours ago, SatEng said:

As with all racists you like to be derogatory to all immigrants, whether they come as legal, illegal, asylum seekers etc. 

The truth is, and there are figures to back it up, that immigration to the UK has been a net benefit - your so-called scroungers, when taken on average, contribute positively to the economy and therefore lower the overall cost of services for everyone.

But racist bigots do not like such "facts" they prefer unsubstantiated anecdotal stories passed around in a pub of immigrants costing the NHS millions.

I have an anecdotal story for you - but this one is true - I had the great pleasure some years ago to employ a young man of Afghanistan origin, his father had fled persecution there being a doctor and they arrived via the "actually" war-torn Beirut - arriving at 12 with no English - this young man gained his PhD by the time he was 21 and has had a very laudable career since then contributing to major UK flagship technical programs.

I would take this "scrounger" over a racist bigot any day    

We believe you all doctors and lawyers,they just lost their passports while paddeling over.

Get a life,by the way this " racist" is married to an Asian.

[SatEng]

1 hour ago, bert bloggs said:

We believe you all doctors and lawyers,they just lost their passports while paddeling over.

Get a life,by the way this " racist" is married to an Asian.

Glad you are admitting you are a racist - it is the first step...

[bert bloggs]

3 minutes ago, SatEng said:

Glad you are admitting you are a racist - it is the first step...

As i said get a life,dont bother to reply as i wont reply ,to you its not worth the effort .

[SatEng]

Just now, bert bloggs said:

As i said get a life,dont bother to reply as i wont reply ,to you its not worth the effort .

I can reply if I wish - free country???

I have a life  - a very good one and yes, also married to an Asian - who, when in Britain, had to deal with the ignorant bigots such as yourself.

I guess you don't want to take your Asian wife back to Britain then - after all then she would be one of the "scroungers" you despise and subject to harassment and insults from people with exactly the same views as you.

The problem is that it is a short distance from the "scrounger" bigotry to the views of people such as Alex Davies, co-founder of National Action who advocates the forced repatriation of immigrants - even second-generation, in order to re-establish a "white" Britain.

With the current policy of deportation to Rwanda going through that step is not so far away it seems.

But hold on a moment, a lot of times these actions become reciprocal, so how would you feel if Thailand suddenly, under a more nationalist government, took a similar view and all foreign nationals had their visas cancelled and were deported, including those with spouses, children etc. breaking up the families.

Of course you could not imagine such a thing happening - it only happens to foreigners and not to "white" people like yourself

 

 

 

  

 

[bert bloggs]

11 hours ago, SatEng said:

I can reply if I wish - free country???

I have a life  - a very good one and yes, also married to an Asian - who, when in Britain, had to deal with the ignorant bigots such as yourself.

I guess you don't want to take your Asian wife back to Britain then - after all then she would be one of the "scroungers" you despise and subject to harassment and insults from people with exactly the same views as you.

The problem is that it is a short distance from the "scrounger" bigotry to the views of people such as Alex Davies, co-founder of National Action who advocates the forced repatriation of immigrants - even second-generation, in order to re-establish a "white" Britain.

With the current policy of deportation to Rwanda going through that step is not so far away it seems.

But hold on a moment, a lot of times these actions become reciprocal, so how would you feel if Thailand suddenly, under a more nationalist government, took a similar view and all foreign nationals had their visas cancelled and were deported, including those with spouses, children etc. breaking up the families.

Of course you could not imagine such a thing happening - it only happens to foreigners and not to "white" people like yourself

 

 

 

  

 

Well i will reply,my wife lived in the UK for many years and worked and paid ni,our son went to junior school until we came back here,where again my wife worked ,

She never had any problems in the UK as she is an inteligent woman,whose family are all in business,she is well loved by my family and is well liked here and i am one of her family here,

Also i came legaly not off a dinghy ,its only those people in the UK who would be sent away ,not the decent ones who came to the Uk the same way i came to Thailand,so stop your preaching no ordinary immigrant to the UK has to worry.

[theoldgit]

On 5/12/2022 at 1:50 PM, chilly07 said:

Frozen pensioners still pay full tax in the UK but are prohibited from using the NHS!

 

May I suggest a slight edit to your response?

 

"Frozen pensioners remain liable for tax on their combined UK incomes, but are prohibited from using the NHS for anything but emergency treatment, being charged 150% of the actual cost of ongoing care"

 

As a matter of interest I know a number of people whose UK tax liabilty on their combined private and state pensions exceeds what they receive in their actual State Pension. 

[stephenterry]

23 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

The chance of success is zero!   That has been proven for decades.

Mathematically speaking, if you pose a question that requires a favourable or negative reponse, the answer cannot be zero. 

 

You might remember that the Lib Dems coalition with Cameron Tories in 2010 proclaimed in Cleggs prospectus that they would involve the coalition government in treating all ex pats pensions the same as in the UK.  That never happened, because it was dropped, not because it required an answer.    

[OJAS]

On 5/12/2022 at 11:16 PM, WildBillHiccup said:

I wonder if this (Thai) minister realises just how much money the Thais are

losing – and have lost - over the years? Must be an eyewatering amount

that has not gone into the Thai economy. 

Well whichever Thai minister is in charge of the Revenue Department here certainly seems to have grasped the fact that the amounts which could be raised through taxing us here on our frozen State Pensions are unlikely to make any significant inroads into alleviating Thailand's national debt, hence they don't bother even though this is theoretically possible under the terms of the UK/Thailand Double Taxation Agreement. And I somehow doubt whether the amount the Thai Exchequer is missing out on through non-existent increases would, in fact, be sufficiently "eyewatering" as to prove likely to cause the powers-that-be here to have a change of heart in the (highly unlikely, I fear) event of our State Pensions being unfrozen!

 

[Liverpool Lou]

5 hours ago, stephenterry said:

On 5/14/2022 at 10:29 AM, Liverpool Lou said:

The chance of success is zero!   That has been proven for decades.

Mathematically speaking, if you pose a question that requires a favourable or negative reponse, the answer cannot be zero. 

I wasn't answering a question posed in that manner, I was stating a fact.  There is no chance, ever, that any government will capitulate to expats wanting annual pension increases in countries where they are not required to be paid.   There is zero chance of that happening.

[hashmodha]

Disappointed but there we are...I would like to ask...as I read somewhere there are 150,000 retirees in Thailand...it would need 100,000 signatures for the petition to be debated in the Parliament on our behalf.... thoughts please?

[Eff1n2ret]

1 hour ago, hashmodha said:

Disappointed but there we are...I would like to ask...as I read somewhere there are 150,000 retirees in Thailand...it would need 100,000 signatures for the petition to be debated in the Parliament on our behalf.... thoughts please?

150,000 UK State Pensioners in Thailand? Surely not. Probably more than that number spread around the world.

If you are implying that apathy must be the reason why 100,000 signatures can not be achieved, it is just acceptance of a hopeless situation, and it's naive to think that a debate in Parliament would make any difference. In fact there was a debate a few years ago led by Sir Roger Gale, who chairs an All-Parliamentary Group on expat matters. I took a special interest because in the debate he read out most of an email I had sent him. There was cross-Party support, I can't remember all who spoke but one was Ian Blackford of the SNP. However, it was very thinly attended and the Government Minister just batted away our case with the same old arguments that they always use - and that was it, just a debate, no vote or anything. I'm afraid I lost the link to that debate and my email a long time ago.

These petitions are a Blair con-job, and don't oblige the Government to do anything. Come election-time, writing to your MP or his/her rival candidates and making clear that you will only vote for someone who promises to do something about our grievance might concentrate minds a bit.

Edit:- I've found the debate in Hansard:-

State Pensions: UK Expatriates - Hansard - UK Parliament

Edited May 15, 2022 by Eff1n2ret

[nglodnig]

On 5/13/2022 at 11:50 AM, snairb said:

in 2030 all uprating outside uk will cease gov forgot to mention that

Now that I DIDN'T know. My wife and I are CH residents so we get the automatic increase because the bilateral treaty. Is there some sort of Government website where this is heralded?

[HauptmannUK]

A future UK government is more likely to look at ways of further restricting expat pension entitlement rather than indexing it.

Retired expats in Asia are not popular amongst UK voters in general, particularly right-of-centre voters. Whenever the Daily Mail publishes a story involving an expat in Thailand you should see some of the reader comments!  Most UK voters would be against any pension increase for expats on the basis that the money will only be spent on the services of more underage prostitutes!

[hashmodha]

On 5/15/2022 at 6:23 PM, Eff1n2ret said:

150,000 UK State Pensioners in Thailand? Surely not. Probably more than that number spread around the world.

If you are implying that apathy must be the reason why 100,000 signatures can not be achieved, it is just acceptance of a hopeless situation, and it's naive to think that a debate in Parliament would make any difference. In fact there was a debate a few years ago led by Sir Roger Gale, who chairs an All-Parliamentary Group on expat matters. I took a special interest because in the debate he read out most of an email I had sent him. There was cross-Party support, I can't remember all who spoke but one was Ian Blackford of the SNP. However, it was very thinly attended and the Government Minister just batted away our case with the same old arguments that they always use - and that was it, just a debate, no vote or anything. I'm afraid I lost the link to that debate and my email a long time ago.

These petitions are a Blair con-job, and don't oblige the Government to do anything. Come election-time, writing to your MP or his/her rival candidates and making clear that you will only vote for someone who promises to do something about our grievance might concentrate minds a bit.

Edit:- I've found the debate in Hansard:-

State Pensions: UK Expatriates - Hansard - UK Parliament

Thank you kindly for this.... just opened it.... will read up later... Good day!