£0.6bn a year to uprate UK pensions for Thai retirees

[maxcorrigan]

2 hours ago, ThaiFelix said:

Well one solution would be to stop getting involved in pointless wars such as in Iraq and Afghanistan, that would save heaps for the pensions and save a lot of young mens lives.

Not to mention Foreign Aid of course, annually rising and part of the old boy network ever flowing gravy train!

[billzant]

I was interested to read the DWP statement, but as usual it is not helpful.

Firstly they have accepted that the pension is an entitlement but designed for those living in the UK. "A person’s contributions provide a foundation for calculating their future benefit entitlement but do not actually pay for those benefits."

Previous legal questioning has arisen over discrimination. This statement seems discriminatory in some way to me - "The United Kingdom’s state pension system is primarily designed for the benefit of those who are resident in the UK." Not for citizens only people residing there. Is this a legally acceptable way of looking at contributions we were legally forced to make?

Clearly every other(?) country regards their pension systems for the benefit of all citizens as they don't differentiate over residency.

[shackleton]

Yes I received my copy about the pension petition 

And as probably most on here expected it was and will be a waste of time

Nothing is going to happen ???? 

But don't say I did not try instead of talking I put my name to the petition  

Expect nothing and you won't be disappointed ???? 

[nong38]

2 hours ago, ThaiFelix said:

Well one solution would be to stop getting involved in pointless wars such as in Iraq and Afghanistan, that would save heaps for the pensions and save a lot of young mens lives.

Cost of one tomahawk missile 800,000 GBP.

[Liverpool Lou]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

So that’s the response probably written by some press officer or a junior secretary at the Pensions Department and then passed onto this Petitions team ... 

 

"...that’s the response probably written by some press officer or a junior secretary..."

It doesn't matter who you consider to have written the response, 10,000 names on a petition for something that has been debated by the public and various governments for 70 years was a waste of everyone's time and received the acknowledgement that the department was obligated to give.

 

[Elkski]

Seems so cheap.   Why do some countries have this agreement and some don't?  I guess after 70 years they figure no votes will be lost to continue. 

[Flink]

2 hours ago, edwinchester said:

The Government continues to up-rate the State Pension where there is a legal requirement to do so."

Is it just me, or does that sound like they don't want to but are being forced to?

[Liverpool Lou]

2 hours ago, nickmondo said:

typical uk!!!!!!!!!!!

<deleted> on the people that have worked their whole lives, paid NI and Taxes

All those people receive the pensions that they are entitled to.   That we choose to live outside the UK where pension increases are not paid, (a factor that the governments have made very clear for many years) is a self-imposed consequence that we have to live with.

[brianthainess]

1 hour ago, Doctor Tom said:

Get back on your beach chair, drink your beer, eat your nice cheep spicy Thai food, give your 24 year old g/f a peck on the cheek and stop moaning ????

OK i'll do that but don't tell the missus. ????

[Liverpool Lou]

2 hours ago, nickmondo said:

But if your illegal and arrive in a rubber boat, you are given multiple times the amount given to a pensioner!!

Nonsense...unless you can back that up with specific evidence, not hearsay.

[Flink]

2 hours ago, edwinchester said:

Illegal immigrants in the UK are not entitled to any Govt benefits.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-immigrant-benefits-uk-idUSKBN22J30G

 

1 hour ago, Muhendis said:

This legal requirement is the "get out" clause we should be looking at. Finding out how some countries make this reciprocal arrangement and getting your country of residence to join would be a way forward. In the case of Thailand it could be in Thailands interest to join such an arrangement thus increasing purchasing power of UK retirees. 

In addition to that, what about the countries where there is no reciprocal arrangement yet retirees have their pensions UK index linked? I think Spain is one of them but I'm sure there are others too.

The UK DWP is being hypocritical in saying "where there is a legal requirement to do so" because it is they who make the law and it is they who could change it if they want in much the same way that it was changed for pensioners in the EU When the UK left. 

As it stands at the moment you get the State Pension increases if you retire to:

Austria              Belgium Bulgaria            Croatia             Cyprus              Czech Republic

Denmark           Estonia             Finland             France              Germany            Greece

Hungary            Iceland             Ireland              Italy                  Latvia               Liechtenstein

Lithuania           Luxembourg      Malta                Netherlands      Norway             Poland

Portugal            Romania           Slovakia            Slovenia            Spain                Sweden

Barbados          Bermuda           Bosnia-Herzegovina                  Gibraltar            Guernsey

the Isle of Man   Israel                Jamaica            Jersey              Kosovo             Mauritius

Montenegro      North Macedonia                       the Philippines   Serbia               Turkey

USA

Anywhere else (including New Zealand and Canada which have the same agreements in place as Israel, the Philippines etc.) you don’t get the increases.

[Liverpool Lou]

2 hours ago, Flink said:

2 hours ago, edwinchester said:

Illegal immigrants in the UK are not entitled to any Govt benefits.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-immigrant-benefits-uk-idUSKBN22J30G

True, they are not "entitled" to benefits, that doesn't mean they are not getting them. They are housed in hotels and other accommodation at the tax payers expense, THAT is a benefit

It's a benefit that is provided to illegal immigrants only until their cases are finalised and they are deported from the country.   

 

2 hours ago, Flink said:

To be honest, I would be infavour of giving the "asylum" seekers picked up in the channel benefits...... in the form of a one way flight ticket to the Rwanda assessment centre.

You clearly aren't able to make the distinction between illegal immigrants and asylum seekers, they are not the same.

[Liverpool Lou]

2 hours ago, theoldgit said:

The cost of detaining Illegal Immigrants is in the region of £100m per year, though most are housed in hostels and also get cash support via a cash card.

...only until they are deported.  Illegal immigrants are not granted permission to stay permanently in the UK in normal circumstances.

[Liverpool Lou]

2 hours ago, Road Warrior said:

the daily influx of immigrants and asylum seekers so they RECEIVE unemployment claims .house allowance free health care and may be a state pension,

Garbage.  Illegals immigrants do not receive those benefits.

Asylum seekers are not illegal immigrants.

[Liverpool Lou]

2 hours ago, Road Warrior said:

expats get NIL AFTER PAYING IN THE SYSYEM FOR OUR 50 YRS WORKING of our life 

Absolute nonsense.  I'm an expat, so are many other members and we get our state pensions here.

[Flink]

1 hour ago, SatEng said:

Typical racist response from a hypocrit immigrant

If you want to change it - go home

How is going home going to stop 1000 illegal immigrants a month arriving and putting a drain on governemnt funds? 4.7 million pounds a day on hotel accommodation alone for 37,000 "asylum seekers". Add in the 40.85 pounds a week spending money per person. That takes it to 5 million a day, or 1.825 billion a year for chancers but they can't stretch to 0.6 billion for people who have earned their pension. There's nothing "racist" about expection your nation to look after it's own people before foreigners, if that's your belief then Thailand is incredibly racist.

[Liverpool Lou]

2 hours ago, jippytum said:

How can the government have the funds to accommodate immigrants in five star hotels and not pay  full pensions  to overseas residents

We do get our full pension entitlement. 

 

It's pointless going on about a regulation regarding pension increases that we are not entitled to, something that is made perfectly clear to all pensioners voluntarily deciding to live overseas and forgo those increases.

[sungod]

1 hour ago, SatEng said:

Why is it that the right wing bigots and racists manage to bring their bile into every thread on a forum

This is about the UK Government treating its UK citizens - nothing to do with immigration

Why don't the leftie tree huggers understand that the more we give away to economic migrants fleeing their 'war torn' countries, so dangerous they left the wife and kids behind after crossing numerous borders of safe countries then there would be more money for UK citizens.

 

 

[sungod]

1 hour ago, SatEng said:

Why is it that the right wing bigots and racists manage to bring their bile into every thread on a forum

This is about the UK Government treating its UK citizens - nothing to do with immigration

Why don't the leftie tree huggers understand that the more we give away to economic migrants fleeing their 'war torn' countries, so dangerous they left the wife and kids behind after crossing numerous borders of safe countries then there would be more money for UK citizens.

 

 

[Eff1n2ret]

2 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

We do get our full pension entitlement. 

 

It's pointless going on about a regulation regarding pension increases that we are not entitled to, something that is made perfectly clear to all pensioners voluntarily deciding to live overseas and forgo those increases.

I think the reason we keep banging on about it is the manifest unfairness of anachronistic arrangements which pay increases to some expats but not others. It's not because we choose to live abroad that we're not entitled, but because we choose to live in Thailand. It's perfectly reasonable to keep arguing the case for a change to those arrangements.

Having said that, constantly submitting these naff petitions and expecting a different result from the last time echoes Einstein's definition of insanity.

[Liverpool Lou]

2 hours ago, Kinnock said:

Shameful admission that this imoral situation is all about the money.

Almost as shameful as the shameful admission by so many voluntary expats that they ignored the notification that annual pension increases are not paid in some countries and then choose to chronically moan about it!   

 

That's my observation and that does not mean that I condone the lack of increases that I, and others, chose to forgo.

[Liverpool Lou]

2 hours ago, crazykopite said:

It would cost the government a hell of a lot more if we all decided to move back to the U.K. 

Got some stats for that claim?    Didn't think so.

 

Why are you so concerned about the costs to the government as justification for your assertion?   Just move back if you want the increases that were never promised to you as a non-UK resident.

Edited May 12, 2022 by Liverpool Lou

[Liverpool Lou]

1 hour ago, ivor bigun said:

we only paid in for 44 yrs what do we matter?

We get exactly what we paid in for.

[Liverpool Lou]

1 hour ago, Guderian said:

if only we could get the Mail or the Sun on side we might make some progress.

Why should a couple of UK rags have any interest in expat pension increases, what would make it worth their while to support a non-supportable argument?

[Liverpool Lou]

1 hour ago, SatEng said:

This is about the UK Government treating its UK citizens - nothing to do with immigration

This is actually about the way the UK governments treat it's non-resident UK citizens who voluntarily became immigrants to Thailand.

[Liverpool Lou]

1 hour ago, billzant said:

"The United Kingdom’s state pension system is primarily designed for the benefit of those who are resident in the UK." Not for citizens only people residing there. Is this a legally acceptable way of looking at contributions we were legally forced to make?

Yes, obviously, it is legal.  Were you forced to leave the UK to live in Thailand?

[Liverpool Lou]

1 hour ago, billzant said:

Clearly every other(?) country regards their pension systems for the benefit of all citizens as they don't differentiate over residency.

You may want to check up on that question/claim!   But, even if it were true, what have the pension arrangements of other countries got to do with the UK's?

Edited May 12, 2022 by Liverpool Lou

[Bim Smith]

Covid overreaction, blank cheque. Immigrants being put up in hotels, blank cheque. Funding a war that's nothing to do with us, blank cheque. Pensioners asking for what is due for something they have paid in all their life? Sorry we can't afford that. The UK doesn't need a new government it needs a complete system overhaul that actually serves the people it's supposed too. 

[Liverpool Lou]

37 minutes ago, Flink said:

How is going home going to stop 1000 illegal immigrants a month arriving and putting a drain on governemnt funds? 4.7 million pounds a day on hotel accommodation alone for 37,000 "asylum seekers".

Yet another who needs to try to understand the difference between illegal immigrants and refugees accepted as asylum seekers.

[sawadee1947]

Correct and reasonable answer. ????