‘America is killing itself’: world reacts with horror and incomprehension to Texas shooting

[Hanuman2547]

2 hours ago, PoodThaiMaiDai said:

Sadly, a lot of schools got rid or police officers on campus as part of the "Defund the Police" movement.

True, but very few elementary schools in the USA had an armed school resource officer, which is a fully trained and commissioned law enforcement officer.  Most of the schools that do have an SRO are middle and high schools.  

[PoodThaiMaiDai]

1 minute ago, Hanuman2547 said:

True, but very few elementary schools in the USA had an armed school resource officer, which is a fully trained and commissioned law enforcement officer.  Most of the schools that do have an SRO are middle and high schools.  

Absolutely true.

[Lacessit]

9 minutes ago, PoodThaiMaiDai said:

Some of these arguments are good points.

 

 

 

If you take all the guns away the criminals will be the only ones with guns.

 

Plus it is a very importance piece of the founders constitution. It is not going away.

 

Come up with another solution instead of hating on the USA.

 

The violence is horrible and senseless for sure, but you have no idea how bad it would be if law biding citizens were not allowed guns.  

 

I am not a gun nut but I do have a few weapons at my home to protect myself and my family.

The first sentence of your post is one of the most tired arguments put forward by the gun lobby.

 

If it is an automatic jail sentence for possessing an unlicensed firearm, criminals will be very wary about having them, let alone using them. The average penalty in Australia is one year's jail, and that increases exponentially for a previously-convicted felon, no matter what the crime before was.

 

Do you have the weapons in your home securely locked away? Not much use in a home invasion, are they? You think a burglar is going to wait around for you to access them? If they are readily accessible, how do you deal with one of your children accidentally shooting themselves?

 

Sure, the Second Amendment is not going away, but it could be amended sensibly. It started as an amendment itself, right?

[cdemundo]

2 hours ago, PoodThaiMaiDai said:

It was a general statement about schools in the USA not in this school.

 

I was involved in law enforcement contracts in Los Angeles so i know first hand.

 

But here are some links for you:

 

LINK 1

 

LINK 2

 

LINK 3

 

LINK 4

 

LINK 5

 

I can go on and on it was a national movement.

 

Apology not accepted.

 

You do a service to point out that a lot of school police departments were defunded.

I don't think the news media paid much attention to this.

But the links you provide point out that this is a complex problem and that armed police at schools were not an unmixed blessing.

For instance from one of your links:

 

"Guns have no place in or near our schools. The horrifying shooting of an individual outside Carver Middle School by a school police officer shows exactly how dangerous it is for LAUSD to continue to employ and arm school police officers. Guns create more violence and endanger our students and communities, rather than reducing violence and increasing safety. The day before the shooting by school police in Los Angeles, a school security officer in Long Beach shot an 18 year old woman who was in the backseat of a car that was driving away from a fight that had already been broken up – ultimately resulting in her death. The shooting at Carver Middle School – coupled with the shooting by the Long Beach school safety officer, and the recent video-captured attack on a Black teen by LA County Sheriff’s employed by Antelope Valley Unified – underscores the failure of school police as an institution. School police have failed to make LAUSD schools safer and they create fear and trauma for students"

 

School violence is not a simple problem that is solved by placing armed police on campus.

 

[spidermike007]

38 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

Silly.  Every time Democrats bring up gun control after a mass shooting, the Republicans will scream "you're politicizing a national tragedy!"  But if gun control is brought up without a recent mass shooting, everyone ignores it. 

My sense of it is that America is irrevocably broken. I do not see how it can rescue itself, from itself. It is a nearly dysfunction society, and it reminds me alot of the late 5th century Western Roman empire, before the Visigoths, the Huns and Aloric trashed Rome. I think America is finished. It just does not know it yet. 

[PoodThaiMaiDai]

7 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

The first sentence of your post is one of the most tired arguments put forward by the gun lobby.

Whatever....... just the truth.

7 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

If it is an automatic jail sentence for possessing an unlicensed firearm, criminals will be very wary about having them, let alone using them. The average penalty in Australia is one year's jail, and that increases exponentially for a previously-convicted felon, no matter what the crime before was.

There are laws in place. The criminals are facing poverty or are homeless or on drugs (in and out of jail). They do not care if it is licensed or not.  Most are stolen weapons are altered to remove serial numbers. 

7 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Do you have the weapons in your home securely locked away? Not much use in a home invasion, are they? You think a burglar is going to wait around for you to access them? If they are readily accessible, how do you deal with one of your children accidentally shooting themselves?

Without getting into detail they are in a safe place (the law requires this) and I have access in seconds.

 

 

7 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Sure, the Second Amendment is not going away, but it could be amended sensibly. It started as an amendment itself, right?

Yes but as it being the #2 amendment from 231 years ago, I do not see it going away.  

 

It was created to protect the citizens against the government (not each other).

[Walker88]

4 hours ago, morrobay said:

Armed police officers are required security for schools and other facilities. Ted Cruz, Sen-TX introduced bill for hardening schools but the democrats blocked it. Stop and search, and most other preventative measures are also blocked by these liberal saps who place someones "civil rights" above the safety of the general public.

So the solution to too many guns is more guns?

 

Then I guess the solution to lung cancer is more cigarettes, and the solution to obesity is more food.

 

repubs hate the ideals of the US, and they especially hate democracy and universal suffrage....but they think because they have guns that makes them 'patriots'.

 

repubs also hate police, since they called the terrorists who stormed the Capitol on 6 January, and who wanted to hang the VP because he stood up for democracy, and who injured 140 police officers..."legitimate protesters"

[PoodThaiMaiDai]

3 minutes ago, cdemundo said:

You do a service to point out that a lot of school police departments were defunded.

I don't think the news media paid much attention to this.

But the links you provide point out that this is a complex problem and that armed police at schools were not an unmixed blessing.

For instance from one of your links:

 

"Guns have no place in or near our schools. The horrifying shooting of an individual outside Carver Middle School by a school police officer shows exactly how dangerous it is for LAUSD to continue to employ and arm school police officers. Guns create more violence and endanger our students and communities, rather than reducing violence and increasing safety. The day before the shooting by school police in Los Angeles, a school security officer in Long Beach shot an 18 year old woman who was in the backseat of a car that was driving away from a fight that had already been broken up – ultimately resulting in her death. The shooting at Carver Middle School – coupled with the shooting by the Long Beach school safety officer, and the recent video-captured attack on a Black teen by LA County Sheriff’s employed by Antelope Valley Unified – underscores the failure of school police as an institution. School police have failed to make LAUSD schools safer and they create fear and trauma for students"

 

School violence is not a simple problem that is solved by placing armed police on campus.

 

Yes I agree. 

 

I am not trying to cherry pick the news to make a point like others.

 

Most those against it were liberals or those from legal immigrants unfamiliar or comfortable with it in the first place.

[HappyExpat57]

1 minute ago, spidermike007 said:

My sense of it is that America is irrevocably broken. I do not see how it can rescue itself, from itself. It is a nearly dysfunction society, and it reminds me alot of the late 5th century Western Roman empire, before the Visigoths, the Huns and Aloric trashed Rome. I think America is finished. It just does not know it yet. 

There are frightening parallels between the fall of Rome and the current US society. These are truly ugly times. At least it will be broadcast as long as the wifi holds.

[Jonnapat]

Quite amazing how many Americans on this forum have their head in the sand.

The "sacred" Second Amendment is to blame because those who wrote it never envisaged today's weaponry. 

Apparently at least 25 Republican governed states have relaxed gun laws in the past few years allowing anyone to walk the streets with a pistol in their pocket. 

Beyond belief to most Europeans. 

[PoodThaiMaiDai]

7 minutes ago, Jonnapat said:

Quite amazing how many Americans on this forum have their head in the sand.

The "sacred" Second Amendment is to blame because those who wrote it never envisaged today's weaponry. 

Apparently at least 25 Republican governed states have relaxed gun laws in the past few years allowing anyone to walk the streets with a pistol in their pocket. 

Beyond belief to most Europeans. 

Yes, and notice the 3 states with the most population and crime are not among them:

 

1. California
2. Illinois
3. New York

 

LINK

[JCauto]

1 hour ago, PoodThaiMaiDai said:

Where was this ever reported?

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2022-05-25/texas-school-shooting-gunman-barricaded-classroom

 

Okay, so he shot his grandmother in the face, with the guns he bought on his 18th birthday, got in the car, crashed it in a ditch, ran towards the school with his rifle, was engaged at the back door of the school by the armed school resource officer and got past him and into the building (wonder how?). The shooter was also NOT wearing armor or other protection.

But according to Ted Cruz, they needed a better safety plan. Oh, they already had one! Didn't help.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-security-plan-rcna30568

[SatEng]

27 minutes ago, Jonnapat said:

Quite amazing how many Americans on this forum have their head in the sand.

The "sacred" Second Amendment is to blame because those who wrote it never envisaged today's weaponry. 

Apparently at least 25 Republican governed states have relaxed gun laws in the past few years allowing anyone to walk the streets with a pistol in their pocket. 

Beyond belief to most Europeans. 

And this is where the arguments of people like Morrobay fall down.

You cannot use "stop and search" laws against people if they are legally allowed to buy and carry the weapons and have no criminal records.

Background checks also fail if the person does not fail any so-called "red-flags" and the most recent perpetrator was able to walk into a gun store and buy AR17 assault rifles on his 18th birthday.

So these people fall through the cracks unless they post something online and it gets reported - even then the far-right will object because it is "first amendment" and I have some sympathy with that.

Going from there to buying a gun and plotting to kill people is hard to spot - but what is always, really always, the step between being an introvert of concern and committing a horrible mass shooting is getting access to the guns, whether bought or borrowed from someone else in the family.

It always comes to the same point, the only control is on the access to guns in the first place

 

[SatEng]

2 hours ago, Isaan sailor said:

That’s true in Chicago and other Defund the Police American cities.  They do kill themselves off.  If they take away guns—only criminals (and remaining cops will have guns),

True to some extent - after the gun bans in the UK the only people with handguns are the criminals, and only some of the police are armed - but there have been no mass school shootings in 25 years because in the main the guns are used against each other in gang wars or inter-criminal activities

So to take your own words if only criminals and remaining cops had guns, would that not be preferable to every nutter having one

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, PoodThaiMaiDai said:

Whatever....... just the truth.

There are laws in place. The criminals are facing poverty or are homeless or on drugs (in and out of jail). They do not care if it is licensed or not.  Most are stolen weapons are altered to remove serial numbers. 

Without getting into detail they are in a safe place (the law requires this) and I have access in seconds.

 

 

Yes but as it being the #2 amendment from 231 years ago, I do not see it going away.  

 

It was created to protect the citizens against the government (not each other).

From what I saw during the Capitol riot, it was the government that needed protecting.

 

There is nothing sacred about the Second Amendment, it is a constitutional add-on which has outlived its usefulness. It's only rampant corruption of politicians that keeps it viable.

 

I can still remember an American in Pittsburgh who was absolutely outraged when I told him wearing seat belts in Australia was compulsory. Such an attack on personal freedom would never happen in the USA.

 

I never cease to marvel at the ability of Americans to delude themselves what they are doing is sensible.

[Berkshire]

6 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I can still remember an American in Pittsburgh who was absolutely outraged when I told him wearing seat belts in Australia was compulsory. Such an attack on personal freedom would never happen in the USA.

Must have been a long time ago.  Seat belts are in fact mandatory in the USA.  As well as kiddie car seats, insurance, registration, window tinting (limits), can't drive drunk, all lights working, speed limits, etc.  The US gov regulates the heck out of us and that's just for driving....but we put up with it.  Except when it comes to guns.  

[Lacessit]

1 minute ago, Berkshire said:

Must have been a long time ago.  Seat belts are in fact mandatory in the USA.  As well as kiddie car seats, insurance, registration, window tinting (limits), can't drive drunk, all lights working, speed limits, etc.  The US gov regulates the heck out of us and that's just for driving....but we put up with it.  Except when it comes to guns.  

Motorcycle helmets too? That was another touchy subject.

 

"Putting up" with rules that are designed to keep one out of hospitals or a coffin seems sensible to me, that goes back to my remark about ability to delude oneself.

[Titan1962]

Worked with a lot of American citizens over the years. All of them owned guns,some for hunting,some for protection. But everyone of them said no way in hell will I give up my guns. Criminals have them and I want to protect my family if needed. So the merry go round continues,no one wants to see kids being killed at school. But when you have the freedom to own a gun,so do most others. People with mental issues that haven’t been diagnosed yet. It’s a <deleted> show and it won’t change. 
Final words,my heart goes out to all the families that lost their kids,I cannot imagine the pain your going through.

[jvs]

5 minutes ago, Titan1962 said:

Worked with a lot of American citizens over the years. All of them owned guns,some for hunting,some for protection. But everyone of them said no way in hell will I give up my guns. Criminals have them and I want to protect my family if needed. So the merry go round continues,no one wants to see kids being killed at school. But when you have the freedom to own a gun,so do most others. People with mental issues that haven’t been diagnosed yet. It’s a <deleted> show and it won’t change. 
Final words,my heart goes out to all the families that lost their kids,I cannot imagine the pain your going through.

I have posted this a few times before,it is comedy but it is also the plain truth.

 

[KanchanaburiGuy]

3 hours ago, Lacessit said:

If no-one had guns, police officers would be unnecessary.

 

After Port Arthur in 1996, Australians said enough. The last mass shooting at any educational institution was 20 years ago, at Monash University.

 

When these mass shootings occur in America, they have one thing in common. The shooters are equipped with weapons that are designed with only one purpose in mind, to kill and maim as many people as possible, as quickly as possible.

 

The NRA is a powerful lobby group. Until politicians start filing into jail for accepting bribes and support from an organization that aids and abets the slaughter of American children, it will be business as usual. Gun firms are delighted, sales go up every time there is a mass shooting. How sick is that? An 18 yo kid able to obtain not one, but two AR16's. How stupid is that?

 

It's complete nonsense for supporters of the Second Amendment to say one can't own guns in Australia. I was a gun owner, and still could be one if I was living in Australia, along with thousands of farmers and sporting shooters. I just can't own a weapon designed for rapid butchery.

 

26 years on from Port Arthur, and the US still has not comprehended the lesson Australia provided. Dumb or stubborn, take your pick.

 

Seriously? 

 

Australia has approx. 26 million people. I could probably block out multiple blocks of 26 million people in the United States where there have been zero mass shootings, in the same time frame. 

 

26 million people = 1 country

330 million people = 1 country 

 

First, comparing the two as equals just because each happens to be "one country"........... is not particularly honest. 

 

Second, when Australia started their crackdown............ were they dealing with a situation where the "gun problem" was so bad that there were roughly 15% more guns than people? 

 

Third, did the population of Australia at the time have a life-long belief---were they indoctrinated  to the idea---that gun ownership is a RIGHT for self-defense, and a RESPONSIBILITY for securing the nation from enemies, both from within and without? 

 

. 

 

See, if Australia had been dealing with a population that is almost 13 times larger............ 

 

............ a scale of "gun problem" significantly greater than it actually had (15% more guns than people?) .......... 

 

.......... and had been indoctrinated to the idea---culturally and throughout their education---that gun ownership is a RIGHT ........... 

 

............ the results in Australia might have been very, very different! 

 

. 

 

Apples and Oranges.

Apples and Oranges. 

 

The evidence of one..........

has virtually nothing to do with..... 

the realities of the other!

 

Apples and Oranges! 

 

It is not at all unrealistic to believe that because of differences in size, scope, and scale............ because of differences in culture and expectations....... Australia could succeed in ways that America simply never can! 

 

Cheers! 

 

 

 

[The Hammer2021]

2 hours ago, PoodThaiMaiDai said:

I am not saying it is bad,

 

But the counter argument is tell that to all the parents who were able to protect their families at home.

 

If we did it your way we would stop world travel if there is another plane crash.

No we wouldn't. I doubt any parents have protected their  children  at home with a gun, least of all an assault  rifle  and definitely  not a sniper  rifle unless the 'mom' saw the house breaker from a thousand  yards away.

[The Hammer2021]

2 minutes ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

Seriously? 

 

Australia has approx. 26 million people. I could probably block out multiple blocks of 26 million people in the United States where there have been zero mass shootings, in the same time frame. 

 

26 million people = 1 country

330 million people = 1 country 

 

First, comparing the two as equals just because each happens to be "one country"........... is not particularly honest. 

 

Second, when Australia started their crackdown............ were they dealing with a situation where the "gun problem" was so bad that there were roughly 15% more guns than people? 

 

Third, did the population of Australia at the time have a life-long belief---were they indoctrinated  to the idea---that gun ownership is a RIGHT for self-defense, and a RESPONSIBILITY for securing the nation from enemies, both from within and without? 

 

. 

 

See, if Australia had been dealing with a population that is almost 13 times larger............ 

 

............ a scale of "gun problem" significantly greater than it actually had (15% more guns than people?) .......... 

 

.......... and had been indoctrinated to the idea---culturally and throughout their education---that gun ownership is a RIGHT ........... 

 

............ the results in Australia might have been very, very different! 

 

. 

 

Apples and Oranges.

Apples and Oranges. 

 

The evidence of one..........

has virtually nothing to do with..... 

the realities of the other!

 

Apples and Oranges! 

 

It is not at all unrealistic to believe that because of differences in size, scope, and scale............ because of differences in culture and expectations....... Australia could succeed in ways that America simply never can! 

 

Cheers! 

 

 

 

The attempt to rationalise a culture of death is pathetic.  The excuses are pitiful. The is no logic or reasoning.

But it's really easy to understand- the so called 2nd ammendment is stupid, outdated, unnecessary and subject to abuse so much so it endangers people does not  protect  them. Sadly it makes the USA a laughing  stock. It appears eccentrically, morally bankrupt and incapable  of simple reasoning. If America can't solve its own gun problem then it  can not address other issues including, judicial, economic,  environmental educational and other  issues. It needs to get off the  world  stage and  understand  it, the USA, has the moral standing of Putin and his corrupt cronies.

[billd766]

2 hours ago, PoodThaiMaiDai said:

Some of these arguments are good points.

 

The problem is there are more than 350 million guns in the USA.

 

If you take all the guns away the criminals will be the only ones with guns.

 

Plus it is a very importance piece of the founders constitution. It is not going away.

 

Come up with another solution instead of hating on the USA.

 

The violence is horrible and senseless for sure, but you have no idea how bad it would be if law biding citizens were not allowed guns.  

 

I am not a gun nut but I do have a few weapons at my home to protect myself and my family.

The last time I used a war weapon a (7.62 SLR) (which is what an AR15/M16 guns are) was back in 1983 when I was in the military. I left in 1984 and I have never touched one since nor have I had the desire to do so.

 

If the Americans are so keen on the second amendment let them have the weapons of that time. Muzzle loading smooth bore rifles and pistols ONLY.

[JCauto]

More on the heroic US police...WHO WERE OUTSIDE WAITING FOR 40 MINUTES TO AN HOUR WHILE THE PARENTS OF THE KIDS BEGGED THEM TO DO SOMETHING.

 

https://apnews.com/article/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-44a7cfb990feaa6ffe482483df6e4683

Good guys with guns! Heros in Blue! More Police in schools! 

Never though dare ask...why does this only happen in the USA?

[PoodThaiMaiDai]

59 minutes ago, The Hammer2021 said:

No we wouldn't. I doubt any parents have protected their  children  at home with a gun, least of all an assault  rifle  and definitely  not a sniper  rifle unless the 'mom' saw the house breaker from a thousand  yards away.

I never said anything about an assault rifle.  I am talking guns.

 

[PoodThaiMaiDai]

39 minutes ago, billd766 said:

If the Americans are so keen on the second amendment let them have the weapons of that time. Muzzle loading smooth bore rifles and pistols ONLY.

I have never heard that before. How original

[KanchanaburiGuy]

3 hours ago, Walker88 said:

So the solution to too many guns is more guns?

 

Then I guess the solution to lung cancer is more cigarettes, and the solution to obesity is more food.

 

repubs hate the ideals of the US, and they especially hate democracy and universal suffrage....but they think because they have guns that makes them 'patriots'.

 

repubs also hate police, since they called the terrorists who stormed the Capitol on 6 January, and who wanted to hang the VP because he stood up for democracy, and who injured 140 police officers..."legitimate protesters"

. 

 

. 

 

Archie Bunker gave us the answer 50 years ago. And you know what? In the limited circumstance he's talking about........... it'd work! Lol

 

So, to the pithy rejoinder "So the answer to the gun problem is more guns?" I say............ 

 

Yes, sometimes that IS the answer!

 

A bank robbery would, by necessity, take on......... a.......... very......... different........ character......... if the robber knows walking in that EVERYONE will be "packing!"

 

????????????

 

Cheers! 

[jvs]

1 minute ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

. 

 

. 

 

Archie Bunker gave us the answer 50 years ago. And you know what? In the limited circumstance he's talking about........... it'd work! Lol

 

So, to the pithy rejoinder "So the answer to the gun problem is more guns?" I say............ 

 

Yes, sometimes that IS the answer!

 

A bank robbery would, by necessity, take on......... a.......... very......... different........ character......... if the robber knows walking in that EVERYONE will be "packing!"

 

????????????

 

Cheers! 

Sure until the police arrives and starts shooting everybody,

[KhunLA]

57 minutes ago, billd766 said:

The last time I used a war weapon a (7.62 SLR) (which is what an AR15/M16 guns are) was back in 1983 when I was in the military. I left in 1984 and I have never touched one since nor have I had the desire to do so.

 

If the Americans are so keen on the second amendment let them have the weapons of that time. Muzzle loading smooth bore rifles and pistols ONLY.

Another firearms expert.  That's the AK 47 ammo.

M16 is .223/5.56mm

[FritsSikkink]

8 hours ago, morrobay said:

Armed police officers are required security for schools and other facilities. 

Not in other countries where they don't let everybody buy a gun.