U.S Capitol Riot: The January 6 committee is about to show its work

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

Lol........ 

 

You casually say "watch this"......... a 3hr 55min YouTube clip! 

 

Hahahahahaha! 

 

-----------------

 

Even without watching it, here's what I will and won't see......... 

 

I WILL SEE......... protesters running amok, doing things they shouldn't be doing in places they shouldn't be doing them. People caught up in a frenzy; generally acting in ways very unlike their normal selves. 

 

Of course, the potential for this happening............ a potential we've known about for a very long time............ is EXACTLY why there are such things as "inciting to riot" laws on the books! 

 

I WON'T SEE anyone actively trying to take over control of the government!

 

--------------

 

Now, if I'm wrong about that, feel free to point me to the time-stamp where that can be seen. I'd love to see it.

 

But wading through a nearly 4hr video clip to find something I'm positive isn't there? Uh........... thanks, anyway, but no thanks! 

 

????????????

 

Cheers! 

 

So you won't watch.

No point in further engagement.

[KanchanaburiGuy]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

So you won't watch.

No point in further engagement.

I graciously invited you to refer me to relevant time-stamps and I promised to look at them. 

 

But to post a FOUR HOUR video, and then be critical of me when I'm not interested in wasting four hours of my time watching it?

 

Cheers! 

[ThailandRyan]

2 minutes ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

I graciously invited you to refer me to relevant time-stamps and I promised to look at them. 

 

But to post a FOUR HOUR video, and then be critical of me when I'm not interested in wasting four hours of my time watching it? That's just trolling. 

 

But hey.......... how about those time-stamps, eh? 

 

Cheers! 

He wants some bonafides so I will create a wiki page for you, how's that....then we can fill it with all the stuff he wants to see....lol

[ozimoron]

24 minutes ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

I graciously invited you to refer me to relevant time-stamps and I promised to look at them. 

 

But to post a FOUR HOUR video, and then be critical of me when I'm not interested in wasting four hours of my time watching it? That's just trolling. 

 

But hey.......... how about those time-stamps, eh? 

 

Cheers! 

any excuse not to watch the video? I think all those who went to the Capitol on that day or supported them since are traitors to the nation. Everybody should watch those hearings. You spend far more time arguing on this forum than it would take you to inform yourself of the truth of what happened. How can you possibly argue credibly on these hearings without actually watching them?

Edited June 10, 2022 by ozimoron

[metisdead]

52 minutes ago, metisdead said:

A post with a video from an unapproved YouTube source and a reply has been removed:

 

18) Social Media content is acceptable in most social forums. However, in factual areas such as news, current affairs and health topics, it cannot be used unless it is from a credible news media source or government agency, and must include a weblink to the original source.

 

A post commenting on moderation and a reply have been removed.  Please note the part in bold font in the following forum rule:

 

18) Social Media content is acceptable in most social forums. However, in factual areas such as news, current affairs and health topics, it cannot be used unless it is from a credible news media source or government agency, and must include a weblink to the original source.

[vinci]

it's just for show, nothing will happen

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, vinci said:

it's just for show, nothing will happen

They haven't happened yet. The evidence produced could drive DOJ prosecutions and civil lawsuits. They will also silence the GOP apologists for Trump who think it was just a picnic on the lawns. Those who have a genuine interested in the truth will also be convinced one way or the other. Sunlight is an excellent antidote for and against conspiracies.

[Jingthing]

11 minutes ago, vinci said:

it's just for show, nothing will happen

They can't prosecute but there is a chance they will influence DOJ and local prosecuters  We will need to wait and see.

 

 

Edited June 10, 2022 by Jingthing

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 hours ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

Yes, they barged into places they didn't belong........... which is reflected in many people being charged with trespassing. But once they were inside, they didn't try to take over. They didn't try to "overthrow" anything. Mostly, they patted themselves on the back, did a little rearranging of furniture and vandalism, hooted and hollared, and took selfies! 

 

But they didn't do ANYTHING........ not one thing.......... that could even remotely be described as "trying to take over the government!" 

 

You apparently haven't been reading the news lately...for example:

 

Both the Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers groups of Trump extremists have been charged by the U.S. Justice Department with "seditious conspiracy," as per the NYT:

 

"The new indictment marked the second time a far-right group has been charged with seditious conspiracy in connection with the Jan. 6 attack. In January, Stewart Rhodes, the leader and founder of the far-right Oath Keepers militia, was arrested and charged along with 10 others with the same crime.

 

The charge of seditious conspiracy — which can be difficult to prove and carries particular legal weight as well as political overtones — requires prosecutors to show that at least two people agreed to use force to overthrow government authority or delay the execution of a U.S. law. It carries a maximum sentence of 20 years in prison."

 

Note the allegation -- "agreed to use force to overthrow government authority or delay the execution of a U.S. law."

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/09/us/politics/proud-boys-charged-sedition-capitol-attack.html

 

What they were doing was exactly an insurrection and attempted coup by seeking exactly what Trump publicated advocated -- stopping Congress from confirming Biden's lawful election as president, and somehow turning the issue back to state Legislatures.

 

[heybruce]

3 hours ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

An "insurrection" is a violent rally, protest, or action whose intent is to affect some kind of change in the law/government. It doesn't actually take very much for a "protest" to be called an "insurrection." 

 

Many of the BLM/Antifa rallies/protests could have rightly been called "insurrections." They weren't........... but they could have been. Some of them certainly met the definition of the word, but that definition is fairly watery. 

 

Personally, I prefer not to call what happened on Jan 6th an "insurrection." A riot, yes. A protest that got out of control, yes. Bad, yes. But to me........... (and this is just my personal take on it!)........... saying "insurrection" implies a next step.......... an overthrow, a coup. Except nothing I've seen of the events on Jan 6th......... looks "coup-like" to me! 

 

Yes, they barged into places they didn't belong........... which is reflected in many people being charged with trespassing. But once they were inside, they didn't try to take over. They didn't try to "overthrow" anything. Mostly, they patted themselves on the back, did a little rearranging of furniture and vandalism, hooted and hollared, and took selfies! 

 

But they didn't do ANYTHING........ not one thing.......... that could even remotely be described as "trying to take over the government!" 

 

Thus, because I believe there was neither a coup nor a "coup attempt".............. describing the actions that lead up to it as an "insurrection"........... while technically correct........... really gives a very wrong impression about what was happening. 

 

Yes, it can correctly be called an "insurrection." But personally, I think it is ultimately more honest........ to call it something else!

 

Cheers!

You should have stopped at your first sentence:

 

"An "insurrection" is a violent rally, protest, or action whose intent is to affect some kind of change in the law/government."

 

The January 6 mob made a violent attempt to prevent the legal certification of the election of Joe Biden, which was necessary for the peaceful transfer of power from one President to the newly elected President.  This legal, peaceful transfer of power is essential for democracy to work. 

Attempting to prevent the legal transfer of power is a blatant attempt at affecting "some kind of change in the law/government".  By your own definition, President Trump and the mob he urged to march to the Capital and fight are guilty of insurrection.

[heybruce]

16 minutes ago, vinci said:

it's just for show, nothing will happen

Something had better happen or we can never again assume a peaceful transition of power following an election.

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

Meanwhile, you haven't refuted a single point I've made. 

 

Can you show that anything  I've said has not been accurate? Can you show, for example, that the Supreme Court didn't toss out a "sedition" law because of how it conflicted with the First Amendment's Right to Free Speech? That'd be a nice start. 

 

 

Yes there have been sedition laws that punished free speech. But if the government can establish that some group of people made plans and took concrete steps to further those plans that's quite another matter.

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Something had better happen or we can never again assume a peaceful transition of power following an election.

What should happen is that it will be pinned on Trump. Adequate evidence for this exists. At that point he can be disqualified from public office.

[vinci]

Quote

Something had better happen or we can never again assume a peaceful transition of power following an election.

they already prepared to steal the next election

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

 

Not long before the rioters invaded the capitol building they were chanting about hanging the person in charge of the count. Namely, the vice-President.

Trump is on record as saying:

'Maybe our supporters have the right idea. Mike Pence deserves it."

Nixon once said to Americans your President is not a crook. With his statement, Trump removed all doubt as to what he is.

It's probably the most significant news event since the American Revolution itself, and Fox is not going to cover it? Did their talking heads turn into ostriches while I was not looking?

 

[Lacessit]

12 minutes ago, vinci said:

they already prepared to steal the next election

By registering people to vote, who have every right as American citizens to do so?

[ozimoron]

5 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

By registering people to vote, who have every right as American citizens to do so?

The obvious solution to that would be to do what we do in Australia. It's illegal not to register and vote. Problem solved.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

30 minutes ago, vinci said:

they already prepared to steal the next election

 

I believe this is part of what the quoted poster is referring to... essentially, efforts by Republican state lawmakers to pass laws that in the future would give them more of an ability to do exactly what Trump wanted them to do -- ignore and countermand the public vote.

 

GOP-controlled legislatures look to overhaul election laws ahead of 2022 midterms

Lawmakers are introducing bills that would give partisan figures more power.

 

"After the 2021 legislative session brought a new wave of efforts to redistrict along partisan lines and restrict voting access, Republican legislators in some states are now looking to intervene further in the electoral process.

 

In battlegrounds like Arizona, Michigan and Wisconsin, GOP lawmakers are introducing bills that would give partisan figures more power when it comes to certifying election results or choosing electors.

...

States are considering bills that would allow regular citizens to launch election audits, impose sanctions on election officials and give partisan actors the authority to remove election officials from office."

 

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/gop-controlled-legislatures-overhaul-election-laws-ahead-2022/story?id=82730052

 

So as a hypothetical example, in a future Republican world, once the Sec. of State in George told Trump he wasn't going to help him steal the Georgia election results, Trump supporters either in the public or in the state Legislature would have ways to go after and potentially remove the Sec. of State from office and presumably install a loyalist instead. Problem solved and election stolen.

 

The Trump-backed Big Steal isn't done or over. It's just been kicked down the road till the next presidential election, and who knows what will happen then.

 

Edited June 10, 2022 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

31 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

By registering people to vote, who have every right as American citizens to do so?

It's not just the getting registered to vote part, but also the actually being able to really cast your ballot...and that's where a war is being fought.

 

As of March 2021:

 

"As of last month, Republican lawmakers in 43 states had introduced more than 250 bills that would make it more difficult to vote, according to the Brennan Center for Justice at the New York University Law School, up from about 100 in 28 states two months ago."

...

Saying they want to safeguard the integrity of elections and restore voters’ trust, GOP lawmakers are advancing bills that would reduce the number of ballot drop boxes or eliminate them, drastically curtail early voting periods and limit who can vote by mail.

 

This legislation could be devastating for voter turnout, especially in communities of color and for voters with disabilities, voting rights advocates warn."

 

https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/stateline/2021/03/25/republican-wave-of-voting-restrictions-swells

 

 

Edited June 10, 2022 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[moogradod]

34 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

What should happen is that it will be pinned on Trump. Adequate evidence for this exists. At that point he can be disqualified from public office.

If it is - which I suspect is correct - then it took a loooooooooong time to do the obvious. One thing can be said of Trump - he does not give up easily, even has entered a quite irrational sphere. I am not from the US but I like honesty and justice so lets give him what he deserves. Disqualificaton. Finally.

[Jingthing]

12 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

The obvious solution to that would be to do what we do in Australia. It's illegal not to register and vote. Problem solved.

That would never fly in the US.

Too logical and Americans would balk at being forced to be good citizens.

[pomchop]

On 6/8/2022 at 7:26 PM, SunnyinBangrak said:

I'll never understand the obsession the left have with Jan 6th.

 

...

 

All in all, I couldn't care less about the Jan 6th protest. The committee is illegitimate because there are no proper republicans on it to offer reality and counterargument just RINOs Kinzinger and Cheney. An absolute travesty of justice.

 

keep drinking that kool aide...it was an attempted COUP which to all but the most die hard brainwashed MAGA bunch is obvious and is backed up by both written emails, videos, audi tapes and sworn testimony by hundreds of people who were there...cheney and kinzinger did not write those emails or take the videos or build gallows to hang mike pence or refuse to call in law enforcement to stop the attack...

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, moogradod said:

If it is - which I suspect is correct - then it took a loooooooooong time to do the obvious. One thing can be said of Trump - he does not give up easily, even has entered a quite irrational sphere. I am not from the US but I like honesty and justice so lets give him what he deserves. Disqualificaton. Finally.

The committee has no power to indict or disqualify. The senate had its chance at his second impeachment trial but failed to convict.

[ozimoron]

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

The committee has no power to indict or disqualify. The senate had its chance at his second impeachment trial but failed to convict.

They put themselves and power before truth and the nation. Had they impeached Trump they'd be in a worse situation politically than they are now. Poltically, the GOP is in quite a good situation which says a lot about the poor state of American politics.

[moogradod]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

The committee has no power to indict or disqualify. The senate had its chance at his second impeachment trial but failed to convict.

Whatever the commitee legally can or can not do - it must finally lead via inexplicable ways through the labyrinths of law to remove the guy from ever becoming president again. If this is not possible then I do not see the reason to have this commitee at all.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

As for the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers prosecutions:

 

"In the United States, seditious conspiracy is codified at 18 U.S.C. § 2384:

If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seditious_conspiracy#United_States

 

And it seems, several of the charged Oath Keepers have already pled guilty to those seditious conspiracy federal charges against them:

 

Third Oath Keepers defendant pleads guilty to sedition in Capitol riot case

May 5, 2022, 2:45 AM +07

"WASHINGTON — A North Carolina member of the Oath Keepers pleaded guilty on Wednesday to seditious conspiracy and obstruction of an official proceeding in connection with the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol.

 

William Todd Wilson, a 44-year-old former leader of the Sampson County chapter of the far-right militia group, is the third Oath Keeper to admit to seditious conspiracy. Joshua James and Brian Ulrich pleaded guilty to the charge earlier this year and agreed to cooperate with the government."

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/third-oath-keepers-defendant-pleads-guilty-sedition-capitol-riot-case-rcna27294

 

So contrary to some posters spurious claims above, the DOJ and federal prosecutors do seem to have some pretty decent idea of exactly what they're doing, and the legal basis for having filed the seditious conspiracy charges that they filed.

 

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, moogradod said:

Whatever the commitee legally can or can not do - it must finally lead via inexplicable ways through the labyrinths of law to remove the guy from ever becoming president again. If this is not possible then I do not see the reason to have this commitee at all.

The outcome isn't really the thing. It would be a surrender to fascism not to have the committee. In the event, fascism will likely win in the US anyway. There's no way the GOP can remain in power otherwise with a dwindling base of white power and privilege. Offshoots of delusion like right wing Cubans Vietnamese relics of the Vietnam War only serve to muddy the waters a little.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 hours ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

I graciously invited you to refer me to relevant time-stamps and I promised to look at them. 

 

But to post a FOUR HOUR video, and then be critical of me when I'm not interested in wasting four hours of my time watching it?

 

Cheers! 

 

The 12 minute film of violence and insurrection screened by the House Committee during its first hearing is more than sufficient for those with short attention spans...

 

 

[moogradod]

8 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

The outcome isn't really the thing. It would be a surrender to fascism not to have the committee. In the event, fascism will likely win in the US anyway. There's no way the GOP can remain in power otherwise with a dwindling base of white power and privilege. Offshoots of delusion like right wing Cubans Vietnamese relics of the Vietnam War only serve to muddy the waters a little.

Maybe you are right. It is part of a significant battle of good and evil even on a global scale, not only in the US. I predict Dark Ages ahead for most of us although unpredicted change is most of the time not taken into account.

[ozimoron]

10 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

The 12 minute film of violence and insurrection screened by the House Committee during its first hearing is more than sufficient for those with short attention spans...

Hardly a BLM false flag operation as alleged. The real travesty there was the failure of the police to use lethal force to defend the constitution. They seem to have no trouble in using lethal force on other occasions.