Children refused permission to leave Thailand on a UK passport

[proton]

9 hours ago, Gallstone said:

Refusal was by the airline, Qatar airways.

No surprise there absolute shambles, I will never book them again after UK and back this year.

[ubonjoe]

8 hours ago, stubuzz said:

My wife was unable to renew my daughter's passport because i was not with them in person.

That is a standard requirement. If you cannot be with them you can complete a consent form and have it witnessed at a Amphoe if you are here. If not then it can be done a at a embassy or official consulate.

[marin]

11 hours ago, matchar said:

Since then he has always entered Thailand on his British passport so he's treated as a foreigner and no questions asked when leaving.

But then he has to deal with a visa and Thai immigration. 

[Foghorn]

Your wife can make passport alone if you are not registered as the legal father or go to amphur and get a stamp document from them to show sole custody, she can get this if you are not living in Thailand, I got for me and I’m a falang ( as they say) and I just got back from Bkk a week ago renewing my kids Thai passport alone with kids 

[brewsterbudgen]

34 minutes ago, marin said:

But then he has to deal with a visa and Thai immigration. 

Indeed.  Crazy for a Thai passport holder to use a non-Thai passport to go home!!

[brewsterbudgen]

9 hours ago, proton said:

No surprise there absolute shambles, I will never book them again after UK and back this year.

I don't think any airline would have allowed them to check in without the proper passport.

[crazykopite]

OMG I hope you get it sorted the children must have been heartbroken we live in a crazy world ????????

[Doctor Tom]

14 hours ago, chickenslegs said:

What a mess, and who would have guessed that children with British nationality wouldn't be allowed to leave Thailand without a Thai passport?

Of course they would not be allowed to leave like that.  From immigration's point of view, especially in regard to children  ( have you heard of human and child trafficking? ) who are they, how did they get into the country, why have they no entry stamp and no Thai visa.  You are assuming things that Thai immigration would have no knowledge of. Immigration acting entirely correctly, the parents should have planned and researched more carefully and asked for advice, instead of assuming and getting it wrong. 

[Doctor Tom]

1 hour ago, crazykopite said:

OMG I hope you get it sorted the children must have been heartbroken we live in a crazy world ????????

Nothing at all crazy about what happened. 

[GroveHillWanderer]

15 hours ago, BritTim said:

If it was in the 1980s, your daughter would not yet have had Thai nationality. At that time, children only received Thai nationality through a Thai father.

Yes, that was my point - about how things have changed.

Edited July 1, 2022 by GroveHillWanderer

[bogozy]

21 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

I get all that, but it still seems odd.

 

I don't get why the airline refused them at check in.

 

You know better than any of us, the usual flow of things is that you show the passport at check in that grants you entry into the country of destination, either a passport of that country or a visa to that country.

 

It's usually only at immigration where a Thai passport, or a foreign passport with an entry stamp is shown.

 

I along with thousands of us have done this when traveling with our kids out of BKK.

 

I've never come across airline counter agents acting as first line immigration

I travelled a lot of. All airlines need to see the passangers passports and all necessary documents, what are required by the countries of departure, and destinations. If they get boarding somebody, without proper papers, the destination country has the right, to force the airline, carry back the passanger into the departure country. So the airlines are working as the frontline immigration offices, indeed. They have the responsibilities.

 

[khunPer]

On 6/30/2022 at 12:31 PM, Gallstone said:

Obviously I wasn't expecting that so is that normal?

 

Now it seems I have to somehow get Thai passports for them to be able to come to the UK. What are the options for doing this? Thanks in advance 

Yes, as they probably haven't entered Thailand on the UK passport.

 

You can get "same day-service" at many Thai passport offices, if not all, the office I use charge 1,000 baht for a 5-year passport for a child, and 3,000 baht for same day-service. If the mail the new passport with EMS it normally takes ta couple of days to arrive, EMS mail-service costs 40 baht.

 

However, both mom and dad need to be present, when a minor needs a passport, if one parent - or other person - don't have sole custody. To my knowledge you cannot give a power of attorney, but check with the passport office, you are going to use, if they will accept that - they didn't do it in my case when my daughter should have her first passport, so mom and daughter had a trip in vain, and the three of us needed to to do a new trip together.

 

A Thai minor leaving Thailand without the mother might often need a written permission from the mother. That's a letter issued at the local amphor-office. It looks like this (the letter used to give me permission to take my daughter on a trip out of Thailand)...

 

[Autonuaq]

 

21 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

You need to complete this form I found on the London embassy website. https://image.mfa.go.th/mfa/0/umufy3EgqL/คำขอ.pdf  It is in Thai. I think you will need to make a appointment to get consular officer to sign it.

Info is here in English for passports but it is not that clear as to what is needed. I does not mention the consent form if you are married.

I suggest that your wife contact the nearest passport office about it. List of offices in Thai is here. https://consular.mfa.go.th/th/publicservice/19745-สถานที่ให้บริการหนังสือเดินทาง

There may be more info that she can find the website.

 

be aware that, in the case that, when your childern leave and you are also the guardian, your wife need to have your written permission with a copy of you passport and both signed to leave the country regardless if it is Thailand or your home country.

also she will need to have the legalized documents that proof that she is a legal Guardian of the children, preferable in English. and it is wise to have the orginalor certified copies of birth certificated of the childern with you too.

You or she will not be the first who is stopped at the border for missing these documents.

[Doctor Tom]

1 hour ago, khunPer said:

However, both mom and dad need to be present, when a minor needs a passport,

That is not my experience with our daughter .  Mum did it all, I was not present. 

[misterphil]

You can get the kids a Thai passport in one day. We got our sons in Pattaya. Your wife may also need their birth certificates for immigration. My wife was asked for this the first time we flew out of Thailand to visit the UK. 
 

My wife was also asked by immigration if she was leaving voluntarily and not being forced by me. Strange question but apparently it happens. 

[statman78]

On 6/30/2022 at 1:20 PM, ubonjoe said:

Unless the children were born here and there showed they were not Thai nationals the must leave on a Thai passport.

They cannot leave on a UK passport without a entry stamp in it unless their birth certificates show both parents are from the UK.

They can easily get a Thai passport. But you will need to do a document with your consent will be needed to get the passports. The parental consent can be done at the Thai embassy in the UK.

This is the form that can be used. https://image.mfa.go.th/mfa/0/zE6021nSnu/เอกสาร/หนังสือให้ความยินยิม.pdf

 

 

Ubonjoe and all,

 

I think my friend is in a similar situation.  He is American and his wife is Thai but also has a US Passport.  Their 7 year old son was born in Thailand and has never been out of the country.  He has a US passport.  They are planning to take a trip to the US.  They are all planning to travel to the US using their American passports so that visas for his wife and son would not be needed.  Since their son’s US passport does not have an entry stamp, will they have the same issue as the OP?  

[soi3eddie]

1 minute ago, statman78 said:

Ubonjoe and all,

 

I think my friend is in a similar situation.  He is American and his wife is Thai but also has a US Passport.  Their 7 year old son was born in Thailand and has never been out of the country.  He has a US passport.  They are planning to take a trip to the US.  They are all planning to travel to the US using their American passports so that visas for his wife and son would not be needed.  Since their son’s US passport does not have an entry stamp, will they have the same issue as the OP?  

Your friend should get a Thai passport for the 7 year old. When checking in at the airline counter show both passports. At Thai immigration on exit use the Thai passport. On arrival in the USA use the American passport. Opposite on the way back. My Thai wife and son always did same with Thai/British passports when travelling. Never any questions and never any problem. 

 

 

[Rob W]

On 6/30/2022 at 9:10 AM, GroveHillWanderer said:

I guess this just shows how times have changed. When my daughter first left Thailand with her mother, to come to the UK (this was back in the 1980's) she couldn't leave on anything but her UK passport. Leaving on a Thai passport was not an option.

Did the same with my son in 2005. He only had a UK passport back then

[statman78]

19 minutes ago, soi3eddie said:

Your friend should get a Thai passport for the 7 year old. When checking in at the airline counter show both passports. At Thai immigration on exit use the Thai passport. On arrival in the USA use the American passport. Opposite on the way back. My Thai wife and son always did same with Thai/British passports when travelling. Never any questions and never any problem. 

 

 

Thanks for the information!  Am I correct to assume that the airline tickets for his wife and son should be booked using the US passport numbers?

[zzzzz]

On 6/30/2022 at 12:44 PM, Gallstone said:

No the UK passports haven't been used. I'm in the UK and wasn't planning to go to Thailand unless I need to.

https://www.korat-legal.com/articles/passport.shtml

On 6/30/2022 at 1:13 PM, Gallstone said:

Yes they had return tickets. Do you think the airline was at fault? 

YES 100%  thye had UK passports so would be allowed to enter the UK:
they didn't even need a reeturn trip ticket!!

Edited July 1, 2022 by zzzzz

[Mac Mickmanus]

3 minutes ago, zzzzz said:

https://www.korat-legal.com/articles/passport.shtml

YES 100%  thye had UK passports so would be allowed to enter the UK:
they didn't even need a reeturn trip ticket!!

But they had no entry stamps in their passports and they didn't have the necessary documents to leave Thailand and so Thai immigration would have refused to allow them to leave , so the Airline didnt check them in 

[BritTim]

5 hours ago, Doctor Tom said:

Of course they would not be allowed to leave like that.  From immigration's point of view, especially in regard to children  ( have you heard of human and child trafficking? ) who are they, how did they get into the country, why have they no entry stamp and no Thai visa.  You are assuming things that Thai immigration would have no knowledge of. Immigration acting entirely correctly, the parents should have planned and researched more carefully and asked for advice, instead of assuming and getting it wrong. 

That makes perfect sense if you assume that the person the children call "mother" was able to get three forged Thai birth certificates, and get the children entered in her house book, but would not have been able to extend this to falsified passports. I accept that the regulations may be inflexible, but this was a classic case of rules hurting children rather than helping them.

[BritTim]

4 hours ago, bogozy said:

I travelled a lot of. All airlines need to see the passangers passports and all necessary documents, what are required by the countries of departure, and destinations. If they get boarding somebody, without proper papers, the destination country has the right, to force the airline, carry back the passanger into the departure country. So the airlines are working as the frontline immigration offices, indeed. They have the responsibilities.

 

Very true, but it would be somewhat unusual for children with UK passports to be denied entry into the UK.

[Doctor Tom]

20 minutes ago, BritTim said:

That makes perfect sense if you assume that the person the children call "mother" was able to get three forged Thai birth certificates, and get the children entered in her house book, but would not have been able to extend this to falsified passports. I accept that the regulations may be inflexible, but this was a classic case of rules hurting children rather than helping them.

and you think that trafficker's can't do all of those things? Really?  

[Eff1n2ret]

10 minutes ago, BritTim said:

Very true, but it would be somewhat unusual for children with UK passports to be denied entry into the UK.

Not unusual, illegal. Any rightful holder of a British passport has the Right of Abode in the UK and there is no power for him/her to be refused entry.  The only grounds Thai Immigration would have to prevent a foreign citizen leaving for their own country would be either if they had committed an offence in Thailand, or as is apparent in this case, a child protection issue. We are told that the lady didn't get as far as discussing the matter with Immigration, and I agree with you that the zeal of the airline in turning them away was not helpful to the children - but this is the world we live in, nothing can be taken on trust and fail to tick the right box or have the right paperwork and "computer says no."

[BritTim]

13 minutes ago, Doctor Tom said:

and you think that trafficker's can't do all of those things? Really?  

A trafficker would have arranged Thai passports, and is unlikely to have bothered getting UK passports, which is more difficult.

[Mac Mickmanus]

37 minutes ago, BritTim said:

Very true, but it would be somewhat unusual for children with UK passports to be denied entry into the UK.

But they wouldnt have been allowed to leave Thailand , immigration wouldn't have let them leave 

[86Tiger]

 

 

I kinda think this is a bit of a blessing.

 

Had they managed to get out of the Kingdom they would have required a visa to return on a UK passport.

[BritTim]

3 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

But they wouldnt have been allowed to leave Thailand , immigration wouldn't have let them leave 

Probably not, as I now understand the current regulations. To quote Mr Bumble "The law is a ass". Dual nationals should be able to travel using the passport of their choice.

[BritTim]

3 minutes ago, 86Tiger said:

I kinda think this is a bit of a blessing.

 

Had they managed to get out of the Kingdom they would have required a visa to return on a UK passport.

I do not think so. They could enter visa exempt and then, either overstay with no consequences, or apply for one-year extensions as returning Thai citizens.

 

It would be better to exit and enter Thailand with Thai passports, but choosing to use their UK passports should be allowed.