Leading Thai doctors calling for mask mandate to be reinstated

[ThailandRyan]

34 minutes ago, Catoni said:

Fine, then you wear it. I won’t criticize you. It’s “,,just a mask”.  But for those of us who’ve had enough of the face condom…let us breathe free again.  
  I wore the mask religiously until I had my first two shots, and then my first booster, followed five days later by getting Covid anyways even though I had the shots and wore the mask and used hand sanitizer. . 
   After I was cleared from Covid….  that was it for me…
   No More Obedience Face Diaper. 
  Don’t criticize me for not wearing one. I won’t criticize you if you choose to wear one.  Fair ?    Thank you. 

Nobody said you had to wear it now did they. Your fragile ego has definitely been affected. Give it a rest. Save yourself some stress and find a different op that will keep your blood pressure down.

[Catoni]

21 hours ago, jspill said:

Many Thais hate the masks as much as many farangs but feel they have to wear it to not 'look dirty' in the eyes of judgmental people, that's what I'm hearing from the wife and those of friends here.

   I don’t care how I look to others as long as I am dressed respectfully, and show normal respect and normal politeness to others.
 

And I couldn’t care less what others think about how I look or what they think if I choose not to wear a mask.  

  Some people have a very thin skin and very little self confidence. 
That’s their problem. Not mine. 

Edited July 10, 2022 by Catoni
Addition

[frantick]

Funny how a year ago, everyone virtued "wear a mask to protect others". Then everyone caught covid anyway. Now it's "wearing a mask protects the wearer". 

 

Obviously the virtue signaling was bogus, and they were truly only worried about themselves the whole time. 

 

I suppose they'd be great candidates for the Mars mission willing to be space-suited up until their demise. 

 

First it's masks. Then it's jabs. Then it's stay home. Then it's quarantine. Then it's... 

 

Enjoy the maskless freedom while you can. I know I will. 

[Dalewhatdale]

1 hour ago, Catoni said:

The doctors and trained scientists don’t even agree with each other, and to top it off they kept changing their minds ever since this thing escaped from the lab. 
   Mask, no mask, mask indoors but not outdoors, mask outdoors, stay home, get the shot you won’t get the virus.
       Get one shot…get two shots.   Oh..sorry now you need a booster…… sorry again two boosters…..three.. four…..   oh sorry… now a booster every nine months for the rest of your life.    Double mask is best…. N-95 mask is best…and don’t forget your face shield on top of it. 
    Do you so soon forget the WHO tweet on January 14, 2020, the World Health Organization (doctors and scientists) tweeted that there was “no clear evidence” that the Covid coronavirus could spread between humans.
Do you forget that already?  Did you believe the doctors and scientists then?  
  And they told us the vaccine is the key to going back to a normal life.   Do you forget? 
Well, a normal life means I don’t wear a mask anymore. But please feel free to continue to mask up for the rest of your life if you wish. 
  

Wait, you wrote "That's science" a few times on a previous post trying to dispute the efficacy of masks, but now that you've been proven wrong, you change your tune to "but scientists don't even agree with each other". Which is it?

 

I have news for you, there has never been, is or will be anything on which 100% of scientists agree. There are many reasons for that, but I won't go into them. What there is, and that's how science operates most of the time is a consensus of experts, meaning that the vast majority of scientists working on a field agree that there is enough evidence to support what is accepted as the prevailing view. We're talking a level of agreement of 85-90% or even higher among the experts working in that particular field. The people who know the issue inside out and far better than anybody else in the world. Something like what's been going on the issue of global warming, except that question is even more muddled due to the massive economic interests of companies and people who'd rather destroy our planet than make less profit.

 

Why would anyone choose to believe the small minority of outliers who don't support the prevailing consensus without providing solid evidence to do so, I'll never understand. Particularly when this small minority is populated to a high degree (and this pandemic has been no exception) with researchers who are NOT experts in the specific field being discussed (being a great motorbike pilot doesn't make you an expert in F1 racing), as well as with second-rate academicians who haven't made a mark with their work and jump at the first chance of gaining notoriety by being a contrarian based on no solid evidence.

 

If you choose to believe what those people say just because it's more convenient for your lifestyle or fits with your own, totally unbased and non-scientific beliefs, that's your choice. I regret it as a fellow member of society, but that's how it is. Just don't say "that's science" when it's not.

 

Finally, think about it. I don't know what your line of work is/was, nor how complex it is or how much training and experience it takes to become competent in it. But if you'd been working in some capacity for decades, and you read complete aficionados flippantly dismiss your expert opinions on the very subject you know better than most, you'd most likely think they were uninformed fools. Well...

 

 

Edited July 10, 2022 by Dalewhatdale

[Dalewhatdale]

10 minutes ago, frantick said:

Funny how a year ago, everyone virtued "wear a mask to protect others". Then everyone caught covid anyway. Now it's "wearing a mask protects the wearer". 

 

Obviously the virtue signaling was bogus, and they were truly only worried about themselves the whole time. 

 

I suppose they'd be great candidates for the Mars mission willing to be space-suited up until their demise. 

 

First it's masks. Then it's jabs. Then it's stay home. Then it's quarantine. Then it's... 

 

Enjoy the maskless freedom while you can. I know I will. 

Nope, dude. "Everyone" didn't get it anyway, and those who did didn't get to suffer life-threatening disease, or die thanks precisely to the jabs. And if transmission hadn't been greatly reduced by mask mandates and other measures, millions wouldn't have made it to the stage where the life-saving jabs were available.

 

Unfortunately, the virus keeps mutating into new variants that escape our immunity, and too many people keep dying or suffering from long-COVID as a result. If you find that wearing a mask is too much of a personal effort for you to make in order to help reducing virus circulation, well, at least try not to be so smug about it. It's the very least one could ask for.

[josephbloggs]

2 hours ago, Catoni said:

If he was fully vaccinated and boosted and not sick…then No…he was not being an inconsiderate jerk.  
   He was breathing free. Obeying common sense laws, and not being obedient about nonsense dictates from our overlords. 

You do understand you can be sick and not know it, right?  Heard of an incubation period?  That's the whole reason Covid spread globally so quickly - people thought they were fine but were highly contagious and the disease spread like wildfire.  But he is showing common sense according to you.  So the other 99.% on that train were idiots?  And he's "breathing free", hilarious.  On a packed train carriage.  Must be loving sucking in all that "free" air.

 

Quote

   The jerks are those who believe people should obey whatever “laws”, rules and dictates our “Great Leaders” wish to impose on us. 

Okey dokey, thanks.  Rules are bad, rules are imposed, we shouldn't obey any of them, got it.

Edited July 10, 2022 by josephbloggs

[ThailandRyan]

49 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

You do understand you can be sick and not know it, right?  Heard of an incubation period?  That's the whole reason Covid spread globally so quickly - people thought they were fine but were highly contagious and the disease spread like wildfire.  But he is showing common sense according to you.  So the other 99.% on that train were idiots?  And he's "breathing free", hilarious.  On a packed train carriage.  Must be loving sucking in all that "free" air.

 

Okey dokey, thanks.  Rules are bad, rules are imposed, we shouldn't obey any of them, got it.

I think you nailed it spot on.....the mask haters, or the ones who refer to them by salacious names have another opinion, which we know by now........they need to grow some thick skin as their fragile ego's can not stand to be boxed into a corner.

[Catoni]

17 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

Nobody said you had to wear it now did they. Your fragile ego has definitely been affected. Give it a rest. Save yourself some stress and find a different op that will keep your blood pressure down.

 

14 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

I think you nailed it spot on.....the mask haters, or the ones who refer to them by salacious names have another opinion, which we know by now........they need to grow some thick skin as their fragile ego's can not stand to be boxed into a corner.

The ones who have “fragile egos” as you put it, are the ones who are masked up and who feel insulted and disgusted when they see someone out in public not masked up.  They tend to resort to referring to unmasked people in public,  insulting name calling…like “inconsiderate jerk”. 
   Such thin skinned sensitive egos need to grow a thicker skin and respect other people’s decisions to not wear a mask. 

Edited July 11, 2022 by Catoni
Addition

[Catoni]

15 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

You do understand you can be sick and not know it, right?  Heard of an incubation period?  That's the whole reason Covid spread globally so quickly - people thought they were fine but were highly contagious and the disease spread like wildfire.  But he is showing common sense according to you.  So the other 99.% on that train were idiots?  And he's "breathing free", hilarious.  On a packed train carriage.  Must be loving sucking in all that "free" air.

 

Okey dokey, thanks.  Rules are bad, rules are imposed, we shouldn't obey any of them, got it.

     

 

15 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

You do understand you can be sick and not know it, right?  Heard of an incubation period?  That's the whole reason Covid spread globally so quickly - people thought they were fine but were highly contagious and the disease spread like wildfire.  But he is showing common sense according to you.  So the other 99.% on that train were idiots?  And he's "breathing free", hilarious.  On a packed train carriage.  Must be loving sucking in all that "free" air.

 

Okey dokey, thanks.  Rules are bad, rules are imposed, we shouldn't obey any of them, got it.

I guess you missed the part where I said…quote:  “Obeying common sense laws,”. 
   I never said “We shouldn’t obey any of them…” (laws) 
   So no…you didn’t get it.  But it’s quite evident you love putting words in other people’s mouths to suit your agenda. 
  Not surprising.  Statists of the extreme right and extreme left tend to be selective of what they read and quote, and then interpret things as they see fit, and stoop to making things up.
   After all..they are lovers of “Big Brother” and tend towards authoritarianism and dictatorship. 
 

   Please have a safe and wonderful day.  Take care. 

[jacko45k]

18 hours ago, Catoni said:

 I don’t care how I look to others as long as I am dressed respectfully, and show normal respect and normal politeness to others.

Being 'dressed respectfully' means wearing a mask where required ...... a consideration for others. So  just try it!

[atpeace]

We live in a world where being healthy is an aberration and then panic when our actions cause pandemics without considering our part.  What we do know; it extremely rare for healthy people to die of Covid.  If Covid hit 50 years ago it would have probably been a non-issue but not today.  

 

My friends and family drink, party and have fun.  They are, very few exceptions, in good health and understand the benefits of exercise and not being obese for example.  I am 55 and the long-term GF is 58.  We take walks, work in the garden, do yoga, and I run consistently which adds value to almost everything we do.  Both of us have had Covid, not fun but I've had much worse sicknesses, and are just fine.  

 

Many need to get out and live a full life and lose the constant anxiety.  Put in the hard work ( it ain't easy ) to get back in shape and stop  blaming others.  Wear a mask if you are obese and by all means don't hangout in gatherings of the mask less but stop blaming other for your issues.  Life is too short to be constantly fearful and especially when your own weaknesses are the main contributor to this fear.

[Catoni]

17 hours ago, Dalewhatdale said:

Wait, you wrote "That's science" a few times on a previous post trying to dispute the efficacy of masks, but now that you've been proven wrong, you change your tune to "but scientists don't even agree with each other". Which is it?

 

I have news for you, there has never been, is or will be anything on which 100% of scientists agree. There are many reasons for that, but I won't go into them. What there is, and that's how science operates most of the time is a consensus of experts, meaning that the vast majority of scientists working on a field agree that there is enough evidence to support what is accepted as the prevailing view. We're talking a level of agreement of 85-90% or even higher among the experts working in that particular field. The people who know the issue inside out and far better than anybody else in the world. Something like what's been going on the issue of global warming, except that question is even more muddled due to the massive economic interests of companies and people who'd rather destroy our planet than make less profit.

 

Why would anyone choose to believe the small minority of outliers who don't support the prevailing consensus without providing solid evidence to do so, I'll never understand. Particularly when this small minority is populated to a high degree (and this pandemic has been no exception) with researchers who are NOT experts in the specific field being discussed (being a great motorbike pilot doesn't make you an expert in F1 racing), as well as with second-rate academicians who haven't made a mark with their work and jump at the first chance of gaining notoriety by being a contrarian based on no solid evidence.

 

If you choose to believe what those people say just because it's more convenient for your lifestyle or fits with your own, totally unbased and non-scientific beliefs, that's your choice. I regret it as a fellow member of society, but that's how it is. Just don't say "that's science" when it's not.

 

Finally, think about it. I don't know what your line of work is/was, nor how complex it is or how much training and experience it takes to become competent in it. But if you'd been working in some capacity for decades, and you read complete aficionados flippantly dismiss your expert opinions on the very subject you know better than most, you'd most likely think they were uninformed fools. Well...

 

 

Science is never done by “consensus”.  If it’s consensus, it’s not science.  If it’s science, it’s not consensus. 
The late Michael Crichton, MD, author, film producer, put it this way:
“I want to pause here and talk about this notion of consensus, and the rise of what has been called consensus science. I regard consensus science as an extremely pernicious development that ought to be stopped cold in its tracks. Historically, the claim of consensus has been the first refuge of scoundrels; it is a way to avoid debate by claiming that the matter is already settled. Whenever you hear the consensus of scientists agrees on something or other, reach for your wallet, because you’re being had.

“Let’s be clear: the work of science has nothing whatever to do with consensus. Consensus is the business of politics. Science, on the contrary, requires only one investigator who happens to be right, which means that he or she has results that are verifiable by reference to the real world. In science consensus is irrelevant. What is relevant is reproducible results. The greatest scientists in history are great precisely because they broke with the consensus.

“There is no such thing as consensus science. If it’s consensus, it isn’t science. If it’s science, it isn’t consensus. Period.

 

Quote: “Consensus: “The process of abandoning all beliefs, principles, values, and policies in search of something in which no one believes, but to which no one objects; the process of avoiding the very issues that have to be solved, merely because you cannot get agreement on the way ahead. What great cause would have been fought and won under the banner: ‘I stand for consensus?”

- Lady Margaret Thatcher, former Prime Minister of England

 

“A consensus means that everyone agrees to say collectively what no one believes individually.”

- Abba Eban

Edited July 11, 2022 by Catoni
Correction addition

[ThailandRyan]

17 minutes ago, atpeace said:

We live in a world where being healthy is an aberration and then panic when our actions cause pandemics without considering our part.  What we do know; it extremely rare for healthy people to die of Covid.  If Covid hit 50 years ago it would have probably been a non-issue but not today.  

 

My friends and family drink, party and have fun.  They are, very few exceptions, in good health and understand the benefits of exercise and not being obese for example.  I am 55 and the long-term GF is 58.  We take walks, work in the garden, do yoga, and I run consistently which adds value to almost everything we do.  Both of us have had Covid, not fun but I've had much worse sicknesses, and are just fine.  

 

Many need to get out and live a full life and lose the constant anxiety.  Put in the hard work ( it ain't easy ) to get back in shape and stop  blaming others.  Wear a mask if you are obese and by all means don't hangout in gatherings of the mask less but stop blaming other for your issues.  Life is too short to be constantly fearful and especially when your own weaknesses are the main contributor to this fear.

However, I have many friends who are very active not obese in anyway shape or form and yet Covid hit them soon after they stopped wearing a mask here in BKK.  one has been hit extremely hard and he is in the hospital. Covid affects all folks differently don't compare yourself to others. And do not expect others to believe it's nothing to be concerned with.

Edited July 11, 2022 by ThailandRyan

[rabang]

7 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

However, I have many friends who are very active not obese in Nyway shape or form and yet Covid hit them soon after the stopped wearing a mask here in BKK  one has been hit extremely hard and he is in the hospital. Covid affects all folks differently don't compare yourself to others.

Are you hinting about a correlation? It probably does not exist. I myself got infected in a place where everyone was obliged to wear a mask, and that was before omicron.

[atpeace]

5 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

However, I have many friends who are very active not obese in Nyway shape or form and yet Covid hit them soon after the stopped wearing a mask here in BKK  one has been hit extremely hard and he is in the hospital. Covid affects all folks differently don't compare yourself to others.

I didn't say healthy people don't get sick or die.  Healthy people rarely die of covid and that is a fact.  As for comparing myself to others, please tell me why I can't do this?  Maybe because it doesn't fit your narrative? 

 

Get healthy and have some fun is my best advice at this point.  Fear kinda sucks after a 2.5 year mega dose of it.

[ThailandRyan]

7 minutes ago, atpeace said:

I didn't say healthy people don't get sick or die.  Healthy people rarely die of covid and that is a fact.  As for comparing myself to others, please tell me why I can't do this?  Maybe because it doesn't fit your narrative? 

 

Get healthy and have some fun is my best advice at this point.  Fear kinda sucks after a 2.5 year mega dose of it.

Why compare yourself and your illness to others? As I said Covid affects all people differently.  Who says those getting Covid are not healthy. Again your making assumptions. Not a narrative.

 

I am not saying you must wear a mask, but for someone who did the same things day in and day out with a mask and then when they went without one and then picked up the virus, it does show a correlation, actually it's common sense. Don't wear one I could care less. However, don't expect t others to do as you do or are doing. I won't expect it either.

Edited July 11, 2022 by ThailandRyan

[atpeace]

4 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Why compare yourself and your illness to others? As I said Covid affects all people differently.  Who says those getting Covid are not healthy. Again your making assumptions. Not a narrative.

 

I am not saying you must wear a mask, but for someone who did the same things day in and day out with a mask and then when they went without one and then picked up the virus, it does show a correlation, actually it's common sense. Don't wear one I could care less. However, don't expect t others to do as you do or are doing. I won't expect it either.

 Being healthy doesn't impact Covid outcomes? Be careful, spreading false information can be dangerous.  

 

 Being healthy greatly reduces the odds of bad Covid outcomes.  This is not an assumption but a verifiable fact.  I am not claiming nor have I ever claimed that healthy don't have bad Covid outcomes.  You just are seeing what you want to see instead of reading what I wrote.

[ThailandRyan]

30 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

However, I have many friends who are very active not obese in anyway shape or form and yet Covid hit them soon after they stopped wearing a mask here in BKK.  one has been hit extremely hard and he is in the hospital. Covid affects all folks differently don't compare yourself to others. And do not expect others to believe it's nothing to be concerned with.

@atpeace why does this confuse you?

[ThailandRyan]

Just now, atpeace said:

 Being healthy doesn't impact Covid outcomes? Be careful, spreading false information can be dangerous.  

 

 Being healthy greatly reduces the odds of bad Covid outcomes.  This is not an assumption but a verifiable fact.  I am not claiming nor have I ever claimed that healthy don't have bad Covid outcomes.  You just are seeing what you want to see instead of reading what I wrote.

Exactly I never said being healthy does keep you or does not keep one from getting covid. My response was to another's past. It may reduce or may not reduce, it depends on the Individual. As I said don't compare yourself to others our bodies are all different no matter what shape we are in.

[atpeace]

1 minute ago, ThailandRyan said:

@atpeace why does this confuse you?

Never confused me. You need to relax and read what I wrote.

 

You have an unsatiable appetite for being right about everything.  Strange behavior and thicker skin might help.  

 

[atpeace]

3 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Exactly I never said being healthy does keep you or does not keep one from getting covid. My response was to another's past. It may reduce or may not reduce, it depends on the Individual. As I said don't compare yourself to others our bodies are all different no matter what shape we are in.

So your advice to the unhealthy?  Strange logic and ignores all science.

[ThailandRyan]

4 minutes ago, atpeace said:

Never confused me. You need to relax and read what I wrote.

 

You have an unsatiable appetite for being right about everything.  Strange behavior and thicker skin might help.  

 

Obviously it confused you as you gave the post a confused emoji. Agreeing to disagree with you  enjoy your day.

[ThailandRyan]

4 minutes ago, atpeace said:

So your advice to the unhealthy?  Strange logic and ignores all science.

No advice, do as you feel you need but don't wag your finger in those faces of folks who believe in their own views.  I haven't, I have just pointed out an opposing view without making snide remarks and calling masks salacious names like some have 

[brewsterbudgen]

On 7/9/2022 at 12:34 PM, ThailandRyan said:

Sorry to hear that Sir, hope the family is unaffected. Wonder if you picked it up from the school.  Hope you heal fast.

Cheers.  I don't think I got it from the school as parents are not allowed to leave their car for dropping off or picking up kids.  Both my wife and son don't appear to have got it either, even though my attempts at self-isolating from the family have not been very successful. 

 

Anyway, 2 days of fever and headache have finished and now it's just tiredness.  Glad I am triple-vaxxed.

[atpeace]

10 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

No advice, do as you feel you need but don't wag your finger in those faces of folks who believe in their own views.  I haven't, I have just pointed out an opposing view without making snide remarks and calling masks salacious names like some have 

Wow, thin skinned.  You seem abnormally upset with others that don't agree with you. I will go with what the data shows in regards to individual health and Covid.  You can choose your own data.

 

  Have a good day and at this point it is blatantly obvious discussion is futile.  It's a beautiful Monday morning and time to enjoy it off the web and go for a hike.  Take care and we seem to incompatible which is OK. Peace!

 

[ThailandRyan]

1 minute ago, atpeace said:

Wow, thin skinned.  You seem abnormally upset with others that don't agree with you. I will go with what the data shows in regards to individual health and Covid.  You can choose your own data.

 

  Have a good day and at this point it is blatantly obvious discussion is futile.  It's a beautiful Monday morning and time to enjoy it off the web and go for a hike.  Take care and we seem to incompatible which is OK. Peace!

 

Not thin skinned at all. Your ego just seems to see it differently. Enjoy your day. 

[Rimmer]

A troll post and a post with an altered quote also replies has been removed

[billd766]

On 7/7/2022 at 2:14 PM, ThailandRyan said:

You unfortunately have to adapt and move along with the times.  As much as I would like to stay stuck in the past I must move forward or get trampled by the process of moving forward.  How do you think Rumpelstiltskin would feel waking up in todays time. 

I have been living in Thailand full time since 2001 and working here on and off since 1993.

 

I am not stuck in the past. When the rule is wear a mask, I wear a mask. When the rule is no longer a rule then I don't wear a mask. I do carry one and if the place I am in wants me to wear one, then I put one on.

 

I respect your choice to wear a mask, why is it so difficult to respect my choice not to wear one?

 

 

 

On 7/7/2022 at 8:44 PM, ThailandRyan said:

You just never paid attention as I said before, you just like to believe your right when your wrong on this one.  We have worn them, my Thai family has worn them for many many years.  The Thais around us also wore them during the Bird Flu and the SARS scare in 2017 as well.  I fact I even wore them with my family on the flights from Korea to BKK in 2017 when we came for a family visit. 

 

Thais have worn masks for many reasons one reason was during the 2003 bird flu crisis, and in 2006 along with SARS in 2017.

 

https://focusweb.org/the-politics-of-bird-flu-in-thailand/

Thais have worn masks for many reasons one reason was during the 2003 bird flu crisis, and in 2006 along with SARS in 2017.  

 

https://www.voanews.com/a/science-health_coronavirus-outbreak_not-just-coronavirus-asians-have-worn-face-masks-decades/6185597.html

 

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/east-asian-countries-face-masks-before-covid_l_5f63a43fc5b61845586837f4

AFAIR none of my Thai family have worn masks going back into the 1990s,  until Covid came along and the government mandated it.

 

One of their stupid rules was/is if I am alone in the car I don't need a mask. If my family are with me we all have to mask up, even though at home we didn't have to mask up.

Edited July 11, 2022 by billd766
Bad spelling

[Lucky Bones]

On 7/5/2022 at 5:31 PM, SooKee said:

The conclusions these jerks jump to never cease to amaze me.  The evidence to show that the uptick in covid infection is due to the lifting of the mask mandate is what exactly?  Coincidence doesn't equal scientific evidence.  

 

That Thailand can even contemplate announcing that Covid is endemic is just bizarre given that at the slightest issue it's panic, panic, panic, lock down, masks on. ????

Emergency Control.

[billd766]

On 7/9/2022 at 3:55 PM, transam said:

There have been different types of C19, I would suggest each would affect folk differently. Same as flu....

Folk die from C19 and flu, fact..

Of course they do. there are different types of road accidents too.

 

They also die or not die in road accidents.