LTR Visa is Now available for Long Term Residency

[jayboy]

The LTR visa is looking like a smart decision by those who qualify - particularly from a tax perspective.

 

I would be interested to know how many people have been able to avail themselves (ie actually succeeded in obtaining) the "wealthy pensioner" category which requires assured income of at least US$ 80,000 p.a. From the BOI perspective all the other LTR categories make sound sense in terms of fulfilling the strategy of attracting expats who can add value.But the 'wealthy pensioner" category doesn't seem to me to make much sense or even belong in the programme at all given the comparatively low financial bar * to entry.I think those who have qualified in this category should congratulate themselves.My hunch is that prospective new entrants in the future might well find this route blocked.

 

* Please don't respond by claiming $ 80,000 is already a very high sum.It's not for a "wealthy pensioner" but debate on this subject - at least on this forum - is pointless.

[MPoll]

21 minutes ago, jayboy said:

The LTR visa is looking like a smart decision by those who qualify - particularly from a tax perspective.

 

I would be interested to know how many people have been able to avail themselves (ie actually succeeded in obtaining) the "wealthy pensioner" category which requires assured income of at least US$ 80,000 p.a. From the BOI perspective all the other LTR categories make sound sense in terms of fulfilling the strategy of attracting expats who can add value.But the 'wealthy pensioner" category doesn't seem to me to make much sense or even belong in the programme at all given the comparatively low financial bar * to entry.I think those who have qualified in this category should congratulate themselves.My hunch is that prospective new entrants in the future might well find this route blocked.

 

* Please don't respond by claiming $ 80,000 is already a very high sum.It's not for a "wealthy pensioner" but debate on this subject - at least on this forum - is pointless.

This thread has 92 pages of questions and stories of people obtaining a version of the LTR. I switched from an OA visa to a pensioner LTR which appears to be fairly common within the pensioner category. The LTR has been available for 18 months. There has not exactly been a tsunami of people applying for it so either the yearly income is a barrier or people don’t know about it. What else is there to say?

[jayboy]

2 minutes ago, MPoll said:

What else is there to say?

 

Congratulations on making an astute decision.

[Pib]

43 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

OK, so what does BOI mean when they mention capital gain as unearned income?

Could you make few examples of an asset capital gain that will be accepted by BOI?

 

Cap Gain means "profit" from an investment.  It's also unearned income since it not coming from employment/salary/wages.

 

A cap gain accepted by BoI would be some document that proves it was a capital gain like in the U.S. when a person makes a capital gain from a stock investment it would show-up tax related forms like a Tax Form 1099DIV which would show dividends and cap gains from an investment.  Or Cap Gains would be shown on a person's annual tax filing or maybe a U.S. Form 1099B.  Each country has its own forms/docs regarding cap gains/dividends/interest/etc.   And this website https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/capitalgain.asp talks what is considered a cap gain.

 

For a LTR Pensioner visa a person needs to prove they receive at least $80K/year from pension/unearned income/retirement fund/etc., ....that is, a fairly stable income that ensures $80K/year each and every like from a pension which will last the person's lifetime....from an annuity payment that will last at least 10 years....from a large investment big enough to provide $80K/year over 10 years, etc.   

 

And regarding the "....from a large investment big enough to provide $80K/year over 10 years..."  you'll most likely need to already being receiving distributions/payments from that large investment for a pensioner visa vs just letting that BIG pot of money grow bigger & bigger because you can live on a much smaller amount that $80K/year.   Qualifying for an LTR Pensioner visa can definitely be more challenging if your annual income is based predominately on Cap Gains versus being predominately based on a pension/annuity/fixed income which is paying out a pretty stable amount for years to come/your lifetime.  

 

Earned income like from salary/wages is not considered for a LTR pensioner visa since the person could lose his job tomorrow and go from an annual income of $80K to something much less.  

 

To get an answer straight from the horse's mouth regarding your particular type of Cap Gain income use the Contact form on the LTR BOI website....they answer pretty quick. https://ltr.boi.go.th/#contact

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 12 by Pib

[SHA 2 BKK]

1 hour ago, Yumthai said:

OK, so what does BOI mean when they mention capital gain as unearned income?

Could you make few examples of an asset capital gain that will be accepted by BOI?

Just ask the BOI they are very friendly.   

[JackGats]

What is funny and unexpected is that it seems the 80k USD requirement is indeed 80k before tax. I worked from the beginning on the assumption it had to be after tax. I didn't even ask myself or anyone the question. It looked obvious. 80k before tax (and before alimony etc.) seemed absurd as it could as much mean "poor pensioner" as "wealthy pensioner".

[MPoll]

35 minutes ago, JackGats said:it could as much mean "poor pensioner" as "wealthy pensioner".

I just ignore the “wealthy” label. It probably scares off some people that might otherwise qualify.

[MistyBlue]

Does anyone have any experience of using (or can comment) on using a "purchased annuity" to part satisfy the income requirement for a pensioner LTR?

[Pib]

1 hour ago, JackGats said:

What is funny and unexpected is that it seems the 80k USD requirement is indeed 80k before tax. I worked from the beginning on the assumption it had to be after tax. I didn't even ask myself or anyone the question. It looked obvious. 80k before tax (and before alimony etc.) seemed absurd as it could as much mean "poor pensioner" as "wealthy pensioner".

 

I sure wouldn't want it to be net income after taxes, deductions, and various other money eaters like alimony.  I would have been way too messy.  Plus many potential applicants would probably feel they are being penalized/picked on just because they happen to pay alimony, child support, live in a high tax rate country, live in a US state that has a state income tax compared to a state that has no state income tax, etc.   

 

Plus, you can be guaranteed BoI has enough worldwide income and individual country income info (gross, net, average, median, etc.) to know how much spendable income will be available on the average if they set the gross income requirement at a certain like $80K.

[Pib]

16 minutes ago, MistyBlue said:

Does anyone have any experience of using (or can comment) on using a "purchased annuity" to part satisfy the income requirement for a pensioner LTR?

A purchase annuity would surely be fine as its a fixed income stream that will provide a steady stream of income for many years....it would just need to be able to provide that income stream for at least 10 years.

[K2938]

8 hours ago, Pib said:

BOI would probably need to see the balance of your pot of money "after" you made those stock sales to see if that pot is still larger enough cover a 10 years worth of $80K/year sells since an LTR visa is  10 year visa.

Unless the BOI has recently drastically changed its policies, they definitely have no sympathy for just assets.  You can be a billionaire asset wise.  The only thing they focus on is income.  If you do not have the recurrent income, your assets alone will not cut it.

Edited February 12 by K2938

[Yumthai]

9 hours ago, K2938 said:

Unless the BOI has recently drastically changed its policies, they definitely have no sympathy for just assets.  You can be a billionaire asset wise.  The only thing they focus on is income.  If you do not have the recurrent income, your assets alone will not cut it.

 

However, BOI mentions:

 

Personal income under LTR : Wealthy Pensioners’ definition is “unearned income such as a pension, rental, capital gain, dividend, etc”. Earned income (salary) will not be considered eligible income for LTR: Wealthy Pensioners application.

 

AFAIK capital gain is not income.

 

BOI then mentions on their application form:

 

Personal pension income and/or fixed income no less than 80,000 USD/year

Income in current year

 

(1)Total pension income (as of the submission date) (MM-YYYY to MM-YYYY)
(2) Other Sources of fixed income
   Annuity life insurance

   Rents of property 
   Salary/wage/allowance 

   Interest on a bond, deposit
   Dividend, share of profits
   Other (Please specify)

 

On this list, only Total pension income, Annuity life insurance and Interest on a bond, deposit  offer, depending on term, a future income guarantee.

 

Rents of property, salary/wage/allowance, dividend, share of profits  offer no income guarantee and can be lowered and cut at any time in the future.

 

Besides, BOI prior mentioned that Earned income (salary) will not be considered eligible income ???

 

Information is somewhat confusing.

 

[Pib]

2 hours ago, Yumthai said:

AFAIK capital gain is not income.

 

It's most definitely income....that's why government's usually tax it.   But if a person is reinvesting that cap gain income he's actually not receiving that income to fulfil day-to-day spending needs.

 

And BoI considers it income for purposes of an LTR Pensioner visa income when it's being distributed/paid out to the person...gets sent to his bank acct.    Now I do not mean being "reinvested" like how mutual funds declare dividends/cap gains once or twice a year and it's up to the shares owner whether he wants those cap gains paid out to him (i.e., sent to his bank acct) or just reinvested to buy more shares.  If he's just has the cap gains plowed back into the fund to buy more shares then the person does not have an actual income stream from that reinvestment....he's rich on paper but poor in actual money in hand for day-to-day spending.

 

So if a person is going the route  of using a BIG investment to qualify for a LTR Pensioner visa (like regular savings/investment/401K/IRA/etc) he will also need to show $80K/year of that big investment actually being distributed to him...repeat, actually being paid out to his bank acct....that is now income flow vs just a big investment on paper.  And BOI may want to see the size/balance of that big investment if that investment is clearly not a special retirement acct like a 401K/IRA which will show whether the balance is large enough to provide 10 years worth of $80K/year distributions...the investment statement would show the balance after each distribution/pay out.    

 

Yeap, BOI now needs to see the income stream actually flowing to you for a Pension visa; just setting on a HUGE savings of zillions of dollars but actually receiving/spending little of it will not hack-it with BOI when they want to see an actual income stream of $80K/year.    Early on in the LTR program BoI would apparently not require an actual income stream of $80K/year if say you only had $60K in actual income flowing to your bank acct (that's all you needed/wanted each year) BUT you were also setting on a big investment you had "not" started to draw from yet and that big investment was large enough to provide an additional $20K/year to get you to $80K/year.   

 

But apparently now BoI no longer does that.   I was communicating with a fellow AseanNow member a couple months ago about this....he actually went to the BoI LTR unit at Chamchuri Square Bangkok to talk the issue face-to-face as his income stream fell a little below $80K/year right now but he was also setting on a big investment pot of money he didn't want to start drawing from yet due to his age and wanted to see if BoI would accept that near term/future income stream to satisfy the 80K/year requirement.  The answer was no; BoI no longer accepts that.  They did early on in the LTR program in some cases like discussed in the YouTube video way back in this topic where the LTR visa spokesperson was interviewed,  but now they no longer accept future/potential income streams...maybe it turned into a slippery slope type thing for BoI....don't know.  Instead, that stream needs to be flowing right now....not just dammed-up saving your water for a possible future drought. 

 

Heck, if a person is under 50 years of age and therefore can't qualify for a Pensioner visa even if going for the LTR Wealthy Global Citizen visa where a person needs to show $1M in assets they "also" have the basic requirement of an income stream of $80K/year unless an exception applies.  Even  the Work-from-Thailand Professional and Highly Skilled Professional LTR visa types also require an $80K/year income stream although there are a couple of exceptions in the different LTR visa types which allows a $40K/year income stream (or even less) in some cases when coupled with some other requirements....see the details of each type for the exceptions.  Only the Spouses & Dependents LTR type does not have an income requirement.

 

 

https://ltr.boi.go.th/#what

1st four LTR Visa types below have income stream requirements; only the Spouses & Dependents type does not.

 

 

Edited February 13 by Pib

[Misty]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

It's most definitely income....that's why government's usually tax it.   But if a person is reinvesting that cap gain income he's actually not receiving that income to fulfil day-to-day spending needs.

 

And BoI considers it income for purposes of an LTR Pensioner visa income when it's being distributed/paid out to the person...gets sent to his bank acct.    Now I do not mean being "reinvested" like how mutual funds declare dividends/cap gains once or twice a year and it's up to the shares owner whether he wants those cap gains paid out to him (i.e., sent to his bank acct) or just reinvested to buy more shares.  If he's just has the cap gains plowed back into the fund to buy more shares then the person does not have an actual income stream from that reinvestment....he's rich on paper but poor in actual money in hand for day-to-day spending.

 

So if a person is going the route  of using a BIG investment to qualify for a LTR Pensioner visa (like regular savings/investment/401K/IRA/etc) he will also need to show $80K/year of that big investment actually being distributed to him...repeat, actually being paid out to his bank acct....that is now income flow vs just a big investment on paper.  And BOI may want to see the size/balance of that big investment if that investment is clearly not a special retirement acct like a 401K/IRA which will show whether the balance is large enough to provide 10 years worth of $80K/year distributions...the investment statement would show the balance after each distribution/pay out.    

 

Yeap, BOI now needs to see the income stream actually flowing to you for a Pension visa; just setting on a HUGE savings of zillions of dollars but actually receiving/spending little of it will not hack-it with BOI when they want to see an actual income stream of $80K/year.    Early on in the LTR program BoI would apparently not require an actual income stream of $80K/year if say you only had $60K in actual income flowing to your bank acct (that's all you needed/wanted each year) BUT you were also setting on a big investment you had "not" started to draw from yet and that big investment was large enough to provide an additional $20K/year to get you to $80K/year.   

 

But apparently now BoI no longer does that.   I was communicating with a fellow AseanNow member a couple months ago about this....he actually went to the BoI LTR unit at Chamchuri Square Bangkok to talk the issue face-to-face as his income stream fell a little below $80K/year right now but he was also setting on a big investment pot of money he didn't want to start drawing from yet due to his age and wanted to see if BoI would accept that near term/future income stream to satisfy the 80K/year requirement.  The answer was no; BoI no longer accepts that.  They did early on in the LTR program in some cases like discussed in the YouTube video way back in this topic where the LTR visa spokesperson was interviewed,  but now they no longer accept future/potential income streams...maybe it turned into a slippery slope type thing for BoI....don't know.  Instead, that stream needs to be flowing right now....not just dammed-up saving your water for a possible future drought. 

 

Heck, if a person is under 50 years of age and therefore can't qualify for a Pensioner visa even if going for the LTR Wealthy Global Citizen visa where a person needs to show $1M in assets they "also" have the basic requirement of an income stream of $80K/year unless an exception applies.  Even  the Work-from-Thailand Professional and Highly Skilled Professional LTR visa types also require an $80K/year income stream although there are a couple of exceptions in the different LTR visa types which allows a $40K/year income stream (or even less) in some cases when coupled with some other requirements....see the details of each type for the exceptions.  Only the Spouses & Dependents LTR type does not have an income requirement.

 

 

https://ltr.boi.go.th/#what

1st four LTR Visa types below have income stream requirements; only the Spouses & Dependents type does not.

 

 

 

Thanks Pib, this is a great reminder for me. Looking to hire a new HSP employee and realized I'd forgotten some of the details of the requirements.  Good to review everything to make sure they can qualify.  With all the time I've spent on these visas I thought I was pretty familiar with the details, but that was not the case apparently!

 

[Pib]

23 minutes ago, Misty said:

 

Thanks Pib, this is a great reminder for me. Looking to hire a new HSP employee and realized I'd forgotten some of the details of the requirements.  Good to review everything to make sure they can qualify.  With all the time I've spent on these visas I thought I was pretty familiar with the details, but that was not the case apparently!

 

 

The HSP type is the best example showing some exceptions to the $80K/year income stream in that it can be only be $40K in some cases and even a lot less than $40K if working for a Thai govt agency.  Yeap, each LTR type has different requirements.

 

 

[oldcpu]

On 2/12/2024 at 5:36 AM, Dan SG said:

Hi, I need to do exactly this too - I see that you are in Phuket (I'm bkk based) but was there a special unit in Bangkok bank you spoke to....I can't seem to get hold of anyone that has any familiarity with how to purchase these bonds for foreigners.....I have a thai tax id which it seems could help the process.

 

I went to the Bangkok Bank branch in Central Festival in Phuket.  The Bank 'tellers' (lady at the counter) did have to consult with the Bangkok Bank branch manager.

 

The lady at the counter had to make many phone calls, to figure out how to do this, but eventually she succeeded - but it took time (1st lots of time waiting (as this branch is always busy), and then a lot of time waiting sitting in front of the lady at the counter as she struggled as to how she could do this.   The manager of the Bangkok Bank branch in Central Festival stated I needed a "yellow book" and "Pink-ID" card, but I am skeptical if that is really necessary (I had such, so I did not dispute this with him).   I also have a decent amount of money deposited with Bangkok Bank, so possibly that helped.

Edited February 13 by oldcpu

[oldcpu]

22 hours ago, jayboy said:

The LTR visa is looking like a smart decision by those who qualify - particularly from a tax perspective.

 

I would be interested to know how many people have been able to avail themselves (ie actually succeeded in obtaining) the "wealthy pensioner" category which requires assured income of at least US$ 80,000 p.a.

 

Likely as you know there is also the equivalent US$ 40,000 p.a. + US$ 250,000 investment in Thailand category for "wealthy pensioner".   That was the route I followed.

 

 

22 hours ago, jayboy said:

But the 'wealthy pensioner" category doesn't seem to me to make much sense or even belong in the programme at all given the comparatively low financial bar * to entry.I think those who have qualified in this category should congratulate themselves.My hunch is that prospective new entrants in the future might well find this route blocked.

 

Perhaps. Perhaps not.  When it comes to money, its all relative.   I suspect also there are OTHER BoI considerations.

 

The LTR Visa does save Thai immigration a lot of work, had I stayed with a Type-O (or Type-OA) visa for 10 years, with an extension of my permission to stay every year for the 10 years.  Thats more work for immigration. But that extra work for immigration (for a Type-O/OA compared to an LTR-WP)  is likely not a concern/care of BoI.

 

From a Government department point of view, possibly the 50k Thai baht (for the LTR visa) showing up via BoI coffers (as opposed to about the same amount (for a Type-O/OA w/re-entry permits over 10 years time) directly showing up via immigration coffers) is something BoI want to be able to show (to bolster their LTR program)  ...

 

Plus they (BoI) with the LTR-WP  get to show more people applying for the LTR visa, even if the benefit may seem less due to what you describe as a "comparatively low financial bar" for the LTR-WP.   So from a numbers game of total applicants (without looking at the financial benefit details) maybe that makes sense to BoI.

 

Regardless, i do agree that those of us who obtained the LTR-WP should be happy ... noting I am happy to have this.

[oldcpu]

14 hours ago, K2938 said:

Unless the BOI has recently drastically changed its policies, they definitely have no sympathy for just assets.  You can be a billionaire asset wise.  The only thing they focus on is income.  If you do not have the recurrent income, your assets alone will not cut it.

 

With perhaps, the exception of the LTR allowing one to self insure for Health insurance.   Being able to show the equivalent of $100K US$ in cash, in a bank account anywhere in the world, is a big advantage for those of us whose superior European health insurance is not accepted (as the format in how the European health insurance defined is not something BoI nor Thai immigration want to delve into). 

 

Maybe we are into semantics, but I would call that self "Health Insurance" major sympathy for assets  - where Type-OA visa holders can not self insure in the same manner as an LTR-WP visa holder.

[MistyBlue]

An update on my earlier question about purchased annuities (thanks @Pib for your earlier reply).  After contacting the BOI it looks like a purchased annuity wouldn't be able to be used to satisfy the income element.

 

I emailed the BOI and asked them this question: 

"Hello Please could you tell me if a "purchased annuity" would satisfy part of the income requirements for a wealthy pensioner LTR? (Note: A "purchased annuity" is a product available in the United Kingdom to pay a fixed income for a fixed number of years). I would be grateful for your reply Regards"

 

Their reply was this:

 

"Greeting from LTR Visa Unit.

If your income does show in your tax report such as SA100, then it is possible to accept it as part of your passive income."

 

As only the interest part of a purchased annuity shows up on a UK SA100 tax return  (a tiny % of the overall income amount of a purchased annuity) then it would seem to rule it out.

 

If there are any reports in the field of anyone applying and attempting to use a purchased annuity would be interested hear of experiences.

[Pib]

3 minutes ago, MistyBlue said:

An update on my earlier question about purchased annuities (thanks @Pib for your earlier reply).  After contacting the BOI it looks like a purchased annuity wouldn't be able to be used to satisfy the income element.

 

I emailed the BOI and asked them this question: 

"Hello Please could you tell me if a "purchased annuity" would satisfy part of the income requirements for a wealthy pensioner LTR? (Note: A "purchased annuity" is a product available in the United Kingdom to pay a fixed income for a fixed number of years). I would be grateful for your reply Regards"

 

Their reply was this:

 

"Greeting from LTR Visa Unit.

If your income does show in your tax report such as SA100, then it is possible to accept it as part of your passive income."

 

As only the interest part of a purchased annuity shows up on a UK SA100 tax return  (a tiny % of the overall income amount of a purchased annuity) then it would seem to rule it out.

 

If there are any reports in the field of anyone applying and attempting to use a purchased annuity would be interested hear of experiences.

 

Above BoI implies only a tax document is the only thing accepted to prove income which is not true.  Various types of documents can be used to prove income....see a partial snapshot from the  BoI Requirements document/checklist for LTR Pensioner Evidence of Income.   Heck, you find reports in this thread where successfull LTR applicants never provided a tax return since the other income documents they provided satisfied BoI.

 

And BOI knows any income that is not reportable for tax purposes is not reported/reflected on a person's tax return in accordance with tax laws/regulations.  That's where "other income" evidence becomes very important.   That is when you need to be able to provide a document which shows the annuity income is being paid to you.  I expect you can get such a letter from your annuity payor. 

 

Example: like in the U.S. a military veteran who draws a Veteran Administration (VA) pension/benefit payment that pension/payment is completely tax free....not tax reportable.  And the VA does not issue any tax document for tax return purposes because it's not taxable.  But the VA does issue a Benefit Letter saying you are receiving a monthly pension/payment of X-amount. 

 

For some people (depending on the type of income they have) a tax return only provides a secondary form of income proof...the portion of the income that is tax reportable...the tax return is only showing reportable/taxable income.    The tax return helps to support other documents you provide showing your income.  And you may need to include a short memo explaining your annuity does not appear in full or in part on your tax return because it's not taxable/reportable per UK tax laws/regulations.  

 

 

 

 

 

[K2938]

1 hour ago, MistyBlue said:

"Greeting from LTR Visa Unit.

If your income does show in your tax report such as SA100, then it is possible to accept it as part of your passive income."

 

As only the interest part of a purchased annuity shows up on a UK SA100 tax return  (a tiny % of the overall income amount of a purchased annuity) then it would seem to rule it out.

 

If there are any reports in the field of anyone applying and attempting to use a purchased annuity would be interested hear of experiences.

I would recommend you to talk to them again about this.  They should accept an annuity.  Regarding their answer whoever wrote this just did not get that since this is already your money, you of course will not pay tax on the capital part being returned to you.  Point this out to the BOI - politely - and see what they say.  Best to visit in person if that is possible for you.

 

If you need an additional argument, tell them that they also accept Roth IRAs in the U.S. as far as I know and they are also tax-free.

 

P.S.:  The only problem with annuities is that they tend to be awful investments.  But that is a different topic.

Edited February 13 by K2938

[K2938]

3 hours ago, oldcpu said:

With perhaps, the exception of the LTR allowing one to self insure for Health insurance.   Being able to show the equivalent of $100K US$ in cash, in a bank account anywhere in the world,

True, but even there the BOI appears to be kind of immune to economic logic.  If you show them a brokerage account worth a zillion dollars, they will say this does not meet the self-health insurance criteria since it needs to be in cash even if you could easily sell the shares at any time or take out a margin loan against them hugely exceeding $100k USD.  Also, they even reject if the $100k USD in cash is in a brokerage account in cash, insisting it needs to be a bank account as far as I know.  So they just love to tick boxes and if the situation does not fully meet this they will reject things even if they are economically vastly superior.

Edited February 13 by K2938

[Pib]

 

Below are LTR Visa applications snapshots as of end of 31 Jan 2024, 31 Dec 2023, 31 Oct 2023, and 31 Aug 2023 to give an idea of applications activity since the LTR Visa Program kickoff 1 Sep 2022...snapshots from the BoI LTR website that now seem to be in the groove of providing updates every month or two on their website. 

 

Averages out to 374 applications per month over the last 17 months...since the program's kickoff 1 Sep 2022.  Of course when the program initially opened the number of applications per month was probably much higher....that spike you see with any new program. 

 

Now, if just looking at the last 5 months from 1 Sep 2023 thru 31 Jan 2024 the average is 303 applications per month.  Seems the LTR program is settling into a groove of appox 300 applications per month.  

 

Please note this is applications (applies); it does not say how many of the applications were endorsed (i.e., approved).   The Pensioner category is still the most popular closely followed by Work From Thailand Professional category.....Dependents category in third place.   Over the last 5 months the Pensioner category has averaged about 83 application per month. 

 

 

Thru 31 Jan 2024

 

 

 

Thru 31 Dec 2023

 

 

Thru 31 Oct 2023

 

 

Thru 31 Aug 2023

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 13 by Pib

[Misty]

3 hours ago, K2938 said:

True, but even there the BOI appears to be kind of immune to economic logic.  If you show them a brokerage account worth a zillion dollars, they will say this does not meet the self-health insurance criteria since it needs to be in cash even if you could easily sell the shares at any time or take out a margin loan against them hugely exceeding $100k USD.  Also, they even reject if the $100k USD in cash is in a brokerage account in cash, insisting it needs to be a bank account as far as I know.  So they just love to tick boxes and if the situation does not fully meet this they will reject things even if they are economically vastly superior.

 

I've heard it's the way the law was written that is the problem.  The BoI is stuck with following the law, such as it is. But would hope that at some point the law could be amended to be made more reasonable.

[SHA 2 BKK]

51 minutes ago, Misty said:

 

I've heard it's the way the law was written that is the problem.  The BoI is stuck with following the law, such as it is. But would hope that at some point the law could be amended to be made more reasonable.

When I applied I showed one month of my pension pay slips and a letter from my Pension Fund outlining my yearly income (it was in $AUD but met the $USD threshold).   I also own property here which put me well over the $80k level.  I didn’t have show my Australian Tax return.  Fortunately I found the whole process very easy and the BOI quite flexible.  But that’s my two bobs worth.  

[ThailandRyan]

In the process of adding my wife to my LTR WP which I received in October of 2023.  Since she is from Myanmar and we are back in the States now for a few months visit, I will be going the E-Visa route for her when it comes to that time. So far so good.

[oldcpu]

6 hours ago, K2938 said:

True, but even there the BOI appears to be kind of immune to economic logic.  If you show them a brokerage account worth a zillion dollars, they will say this does not meet the self-health insurance criteria since it needs to be in cash even if you could easily sell the shares at any time or take out a margin loan against them hugely exceeding $100k USD. 

 

Thats true. but its not without good reason.  One can lose their shirt in a trading account.  Simple.

 

I have traded for decades, and in one trading account, I have lost more money in one evening that some people save in a lifetime ... (and was fortunate two years later to make the money all back and then some).

 

BoI can't legislate one's trading technique, and one can lose a lot of money fast in a trading account. So BoI had to draw a line somewhere and they drew the line such that trading accounts would not be accepted.  Full stop. No negotiation.

 

I had the funds needed for self insurance in cash in a German savings account, but I did not want to officially translate the documents to English for BoI.   Ok - so I am lazy.  I confess.

 

So I tried with 2 different trading accounts in Canada that exceeded the prerequisite amount - but as noted, BoI would not accept that. And it makes sense to me, one can lose money VERY fast with a trading account. 

 

BoI wanted an account for self health insurance with the money in CASH that was not a trading account.  Fortunately I also had an account in Thailand that met that criteria (in foreign funds).

 

I guess it would have been easier, for self health insurance, if I simply provided in English language documents showing all my accounts in places around the world, but I was reluctant to say too much about my financial status.  Why provide more information than one has to ?   In the end I did satisfy BoI.   Had I known initially about the trading accounts not being accepted, I NEVER would have mentioned such to BoI.

 

 

6 hours ago, K2938 said:

Also, they even reject if the $100k USD in cash is in a brokerage account in cash, insisting it needs to be a bank account as far as I know.  So they just love to tick boxes and if the situation does not fully meet this they will reject things even if they are economically vastly superior.

 

Yep.  But it is a Wealthy Pensioner LTR visa, emphasis on "Wealthy" and not a poor pensioner LTR visa. So yes I tried a few different accounts before they would accept one, but ... that's not a big issue for me.   Perhaps if this was an LTR-PP (poor pensioner) visa, it would have been a very understandable and massive issue for others who tried and failed.

 

Edited February 13 by oldcpu

[oldcpu]

2 hours ago, SHA 2 BKK said:

When I applied I showed one month of my pension pay slips and a letter from my Pension Fund outlining my yearly income (it was in $AUD but met the $USD threshold).   I also own property here which put me well over the $80k level.  I didn’t have show my Australian Tax return. 

 

In my case BoI were very insistent on my last 2 years tax returns, and when I provided them my Canadian 2020 and 2021 return, they asked for my return for 2022  (which I had not yet even submitted as such was not due in Canada for a few months).  I previously sent them my pay slips for 2022, but that was not enough for them.  They wanted the tax returns.

 

In the end, I completed my 2022 tax return, obtained Canadian government official reply from that (which noted my global income), I gave BoI that paperwork, and they accepted such (not thou without BoI first asking for proof of a pension that I never stated I had - but that's another story). Still all is well that ends well, and I did exceed the required income level (as proven by my tax returns and pension pay slips) and they finally approved the income part of my LTR-WP application.

 

I think it all depends on which BoI person is handling one's case.

[mudcat]

Re Yearly Report:

 

I sent this off to BOI:

 

Good morning, I am a LTR-WP visa holder (No. xxx/xx). I note that your website has added procedures to make annual reports to immigration. I request that BOI and Immigration make accommodation to LTR visa holders who live outside of Bangkok as reporting the One Stop Service Center requires a special trip to Bangkok including two 6-hour bus trips and at least one night stay. While this would not be difficult today, as a 75-year old I worry about my ability to make such a trip as I get older. I had understood that the ability to make my annual report to Immigration could be accomplished at my provincial Immigration office in Buriram which is less than an hour away. Has there been any progress in allowing local reporting as TM95 appears to permit. Note: I did not need to report this year because I was out of the Kingdom on a trip back to the United States and, because of planned travel in August-September, I probably will not need to report until 2025.

 

Their response a few days later:

 

 

Greetings from the LTR Visa Unit.

 

If you have recently returned to Thailand and have not stayed for a full year, you are not required to complete the one-year report.

 

You can contact the Immigration Bureau near your area to inquire about the availability of the one-year report service.

 

So, it is off the Buriram Immigration to see what they say, otherwise off to Cambodia or Laos for a border bounce.

[mudcat]

I note there has been some discussion of substituting investment earnings (dividends and/or capital gains) or an annuity for the Wealthy Pensioner thresholds.  I am not including annuities as I steer clear of products sold by insurance agents.

 

Assuming 2.5%, 5%, and 4.3% (10-year T-Bill) yields:

Invested Yield Pct LTR Threshold $3,200,000 2.50% $80,000 $1,600,000 2.50% $40,000       $1,600,000 5.00% $80,000 $800,000 5.00% $40,000       $1,860,500 4.30% $80,002 $930,250 4.30% $40,001

 

Am I missing something or are people willing to tie up considerable sums of their own money to qualify for a LTR-WP visa?

 

As a Social Security recipient and a government agency pension I am finally made aware of the value of my income stream that is separate from my investment accounts (Roth IRA and Brokerage account)