LTR Visa is Now available for Long Term Residency

[Ben Zioner]

1 hour ago, stat said:

Simply solution would be to just show a 1 Million and be done.

Or have 8000 USD being paid every month by one pension fund into one bank account. 

 

It works, I did it.

[JimGant]

10 hours ago, sabaiguy said:

Told them I had 2023 1099-R,  which they accepted in lieu of the 1040.

 

My 1040 is a married joint return, so the line items are joint, thus not reflecting my portion. Thus, 1099-Rs submitted for each of my taxable items. 1040 submitted as a courtesy copy, but totally worthless in the math department. 1099-Rs totally accepted, with, of course, a cover letter of explanation. Also, only the previous year's tax data required -- no two year requirement, as had been mentioned somewhere. And, current year monthly pay statements, with a cover letter showing monthly payments multiplied by twelve, to arrive at annual amount (duh). Simple math exercise, totally acceptable to BoI.

[stat]

5 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

Or have 8000 USD being paid every month by one pension fund into one bank account. 

 

It works, I did it.

Why should I pay other people 5%-10% of my money to get my money back+ pay German taxes of 26.375% on 80K a year? I do not want to generate taxable income while being a German tax resident. Money from a pension fund is the worst income tax wise in Germany.

[Richard007]

I’m happy to report that I received my Notification Letter for Qualifications Endorsement, exactly two weeks after I filed the application online.  Since I am currently in the U.S., the next step for me is to apply for an e-visa at the Royal Thai consulate here in the U.S.  I created a draft e-visa application and am not sure how to answer a few questions. 

The application asks for my arrival and departure dates.  Right now, I do not know the exact dates as I have some other traveling to do before I can get to Thailand.  Can I put estimated dates on the e-visa application?  Is this something that airport immigration in Thailand cares about, i.e. do they look at your plane tickets to confirm the dates match what’s on your e-visa application?

As of now, I have not booked a flight or accommodation for my arrival into Thailand but these appear to be required entries in the e-visa application.  Any suggestions on how to address this?  Again, does airport immigration compare this information against the e-visa application?

Regarding the required document indicating current location, is a current bank statement which shows my address in the U.S. acceptable?

FYI – I did send these questions to the Royal Thai consulate but have not heard back yet, so I’m curious to hear what others here did for their e-visa.

[Misty]

6 hours ago, Richard007 said:

I’m happy to report that I received my Notification Letter for Qualifications Endorsement, exactly two weeks after I filed the application online.  Since I am currently in the U.S., the next step for me is to apply for an e-visa at the Royal Thai consulate here in the U.S.  I created a draft e-visa application and am not sure how to answer a few questions. 

 

The application asks for my arrival and departure dates.  Right now, I do not know the exact dates as I have some other traveling to do before I can get to Thailand.  Can I put estimated dates on the e-visa application?  Is this something that airport immigration in Thailand cares about, i.e. do they look at your plane tickets to confirm the dates match what’s on your e-visa application?

 

As of now, I have not booked a flight or accommodation for my arrival into Thailand but these appear to be required entries in the e-visa application.  Any suggestions on how to address this?  Again, does airport immigration compare this information against the e-visa application?

 

Regarding the required document indicating current location, is a current bank statement which shows my address in the U.S. acceptable?

 

FYI – I did send these questions to the Royal Thai consulate but have not heard back yet, so I’m curious to hear what others here did for their e-visa.

 

 

I received my initial LTR e-visa from the Royal Thai Consulate in NY and had similar questions during the application process. In that case I had a one way ticket to Thailand in November 2022, and no return ticket, and asked the NY Consulate on FB messenger how to fill out the application. They responded very quickly: " Hi, Please fill out information as is stated on your ticket. In the case you have only one way ticket, please fill out the estimate intended departure date from Thailand."  In the end when the visa was granted the dates were Oct 22 - Oct 32 - so no relationship with my existing ticket.  So my best guess would be estimated dates should be fine.  And if you'd still like to get it straight from the Consulate, give FB messenger a try.  They've been really prompt at answering that type of message in the past.

 

 

[Ben Zioner]

14 hours ago, stat said:

Why should I pay other people 5%-10% of my money to get my money back+ pay German taxes of 26.375% on 80K a year? I do not want to generate taxable income while being a German tax resident. Money from a pension fund is the worst income tax wise in Germany.

So what makes you a German tax resident? And then I don't get it, you couldn't put money into a retirement fund now to draw a pension in a few months. And if you could do so, you could probably qualify as a wealthy global citizen, as you said. Your weakness might be that you may be to attached to your money.

 

AFAIC, I have had an "LTR qualifying" pension without withholding tax for years. So it was a no brainer.

[Presnock]

On 3/28/2024 at 10:30 AM, Mike Lister said:

The DTA on US SSc is very specific, it may only be taxed by the US.

 

And currently there is no facility to declare exempt income such as US SSc, I try to declare mine every year and it gets ignored.

The wealthy pensioner LTR through the BOI exempts monies earned from overseas and remitted into Thailand.  However, since one can also work legally under the LTR, any work earning monies in Thailand will be taxed.  Clearly stated on the LTR benefits.

[Presnock]

44 minutes ago, Misty said:

 

I received my initial LTR e-visa from the Royal Thai Consulate in NY and had similar questions during the application process. In that case I had a one way ticket to Thailand in November 2022, and no return ticket, and asked the NY Consulate on FB messenger how to fill out the application. They responded very quickly: " Hi, Please fill out information as is stated on your ticket. In the case you have only one way ticket, please fill out the estimate intended departure date from Thailand."  In the end when the visa was granted the dates were Oct 22 - Oct 32 - so no relationship with my existing ticket.  So my best guess would be estimated dates should be fine.  And if you'd still like to get it straight from the Consulate, give FB messenger a try.  They've been really prompt at answering that type of message in the past.

 

 

The expiration date of the LTR will be 10 years from the date that is stamped in your passport by the BOI immigration officer.

[Presnock]

On 4/10/2024 at 3:23 PM, 1tent42 said:

I applied for the LTR visa and submitted my pension benefit letter that showed I have a pension of at least $80K a year.

 

BOI keeps asking me for my tax return and 1099s.  Is this normal?  I thought the pension benefit letter would be sufficient since I've exceeded the $80K minimum requirement for passive income.

Yes, they indicate that the 1099 can be used for other category but for wealthy pensioner I learned from a previous recipient that if you send your 1040's in they approve that immediately and then only the insurance question might remain.  I have a US govt sponsore insurance and the company wrote a nice letter to the BOI indicating that all was covered as they wanted.  SO within 3 weeks I was stamped!

 

[Presnock]

On 4/11/2024 at 2:36 PM, HerewardtheWake said:

US$100,000 deposit in lieu of Health Insurance- Visit to Chamchuri Square BoI office

 

I wanted to discontinue my  Pacific Cross LTR visa health insurance and use the 100,000 deposit method. I went to the BoI office with: 1. Balance Letter of Charles Schwab bank checking account  which says my average balance for the last 12 months was over $100,00; 2. Account statements for the last 12 months each of which showed over $100,000 each month.

 

A soft spoken young man with a pleasant manner met me. I showed him the Balance Letter and the monthly statement. He had a cursory look at the Balance Letter but did not examine the monthly statements.

 

I explained to him that each time I arrive on my LTR visa, Immigration  asks me for proof of health insurance. Since I now I want to change to the $100,000 deposit method, can BoI give me a statement that they have approved my bank deposit method and exempted me from having to carry insurance? Or, at least a notation on the LTR visa  passport page to that effect?

 

He went back and forth to consult with his supervisor. The final word was that BoI has no policy of giving such a statement. Because it is superfluous and not necessary, according to BoI.

 

He said Immigration is not supposed to ask for health insurance proof for LTR visas. If it happens again, he said, ask them to call BoI. But he agreed with me that such a call would be impractical and went back to the supervisor.

 

He then gave a Thai version and English translation of the LTR Qualifications, Conditions, Criteria, and Conditions for LTR. He underlined Section 2.2.3 which states that: --- a deposit balance of at least USD 100,000 in a bank account in Thailand or abroad retained for least 12 months as of the date of application.

 

If Immigration asks me for proof of health insurance, show them the document, he said. 

 

That was the best BoI could do.

 

My dilemma is: at over 75, if I discontinue my Pacific Cross policy , and if at some point BoI changes the LTR health insurance rules, I will not be able to get health insurance.

 

So, is it best to continue carrying the health insurance policy?

 

Well for the next ten years you should be good to go with immigration if you have the LTR visa.  in 5 years/10 years just keep the 100,000 available or health needs

[Presnock]

On 4/11/2024 at 3:44 PM, Ben Zioner said:

I like that 17% figure, without any "schadenfreude". IMHO a fair income tax system would be one where where tax would kick in, at a lower rate of 3% to 5% of total income and no one would pay more than 15% to 20%. I think  I'd be ok I think if they taxed my foreign income at 17%.

You must be earning that taxed money in Thailand as you don't have to pay tax on any overseas funds that you remit into Thailand with the LTR.

[Presnock]

On 4/11/2024 at 5:33 PM, oldcpu said:

 

Each person's situation is different.  I am age-70 and I obtain subsidized health insurance (as part of my pension) from Europe, that while it exceeds the LTR Health Insurance requirements, the Insurance company does not provide their information in a format that the BoI folks want to see.  So I have gone with the $100K US$ in the bank equivalent as 'self health insurance proof'.

 

Still, I have no intention of giving up my superior health insurance from Europe.  As you note if at our age one's health insurance policy is discontinued, it be very difficult to get appropriate health insurance again.  Keeping $100k US cash equivalent (and keeping my superior health insurance) is not an issue for me.

 

My recommendation, if it is not a big financial issue to maintain the $100k US$ equivalent cash, and not an issue to keep separate health insurance, then keep both. 

 

But it reads to me this is a financial issue for you - so you need to choose which you wish to go with.  Your guess is likely just as good as anyone else's guess.

My insurance company didn't provide a sentence in the benefits package for overseas  only stating that hospitalization is covered in full so I wrote a note to the company explaining why I needed a letter specificallly indicating that the company would pay hospitalization of at least 50K USD - the company has done this before and it was no problem at all getting that letter and BOI was happy.

[Presnock]

On 4/16/2024 at 12:47 PM, hcvc said:

A plea for help from someone who has already been through the process of obtaining a BOI LTR Visa for Wealthy Pensioners - would you please explain to me what it means to show evidence your current visa has been canceled.

 

In case the applicant choses to have LTR visa issued at One Stop Center for Visa and Work Permit (OSS) in Bangkok, the applicant will be required to update latest travel information and upload passport pages with all Thai stamps (The file must be scanned both left and right pages per one sheet AND ALL SHEETS MERGED IN ONE PDF FILE), particularly biodata page, current visa which has been cancelled with the remaining permission to stay sufficient to receive LTR Visa*

 

For further information about current visa termination, please contact the immigration office where you got the current visa.

 

As per instructions from the BOI my wife contacted our local immigration office. The immigration office said they were not familiar with / had never done a LTR Visa for Wealthy Pensioners.

 

I would be grateful for your guidance

Just got my LTR in March - Yes, I was on a retirement O visa and the BOI when you go to get your LTR stamps, you can also get the immigration officer there at the BOI to cancel you current visa.  No problem and only takes a couple of minutes maximum.  Easy and they are very helpful!

[SingAPorn]

After all the hassle and red tape asking for extra documents, let's assume one gets the LTR P visa retiree.

 

But despite the 10 yr LTR stamp given on passport, it seems that the length of stay is to the discretion of the immigration boy on arrival who is free to put what he feels is an acceptable period of stay per trip. Read of reports in AN from LTR visa holders  being asked to produce this or that document on arrival at the airport and given duration of stay only during the validity say of the health insurance produced. (that is for those who did have it). What if one only wants to say say 4 to 5 months per yer and already has a return ticket date reserved, Obviously more cost as one will have to keep the ticket open to change dates if on arrival the immigration fellow makes a fuss and puts some absurd period of stay stamp.

 

 

At the end of the day it's not worth the hassle for the winter birds as one remains at the mercy of the immigration staff on arrival at BKK airport. Not to mention that the process to get the visa is a long journey of hassles, extra documentation, fuss made on details...totally absurd as most of the candidates for retirement own property and do bring in money and spend in Thailand. Better of to spend elsewhere.

 

For the winter birds, far better to either go elsewhere in Asia or to choose another type of visa. LTR makes one feel that one may be above the hassle, but ultimately it's just a huge amount they take and not worth it.

[Presnock]

On 4/19/2024 at 11:26 PM, JohnnyBD said:

I'm thinking about applying for a LTR visa for Pensioners and have a few questions. Any advice & information would be greatly appreciated.

 

1. What is the approximate yearly cost of the health insurance policy in order to qualify for LTR visa?

2. Are you required to purchase the health insurance policy before you apply for LTR visa, or afterwards?

3. Does BOI have a recommended list of health insurers? Does anyone have any recommendations?

 

Thank you...

WHat is your nationality..I am US so That is what I am experienced in and the BOIU LTR  got my stamps in March 2024

[Presnock]

On 4/19/2024 at 11:26 PM, JohnnyBD said:

I'm thinking about applying for a LTR visa for Pensioners and have a few questions. Any advice & information would be greatly appreciated.

 

1. What is the approximate yearly cost of the health insurance policy in order to qualify for LTR visa?

2. Are you required to purchase the health insurance policy before you apply for LTR visa, or afterwards?

3. Does BOI have a recommended list of health insurers? Does anyone have any recommendations?

 

Thank you...

YOu have to be able to show that you have a health insurance policy guaranteeing 50K USD of hospitalization locally if needed or as stgated on the requirements, have a 100K usd acct for 12 months I think to be able to pay for any health issues.

[Presnock]

On 4/20/2024 at 6:42 AM, Richard007 said:

Hello everyone, I have read all 100 pages of this very interesting thread, so thanks to all of the contributors!

 

I just applied this week for the LTR WP visa.  I assume that all of my documents look good to BOI, since my status changed from “Pending” to “Consideration by Government Agencies” less than two days after submitting my application and I did not receive any requests for more documents / information.

 

To those of you who have received LTR WP approval recently (within the last 6 months), how long did it take you to go from “Consideration by Government Agencies” (Step 4) to visa approval (Step 8)?  Also, please note if your process was delayed at any point by requests for additional documents that you then had to gather and submit.  This information will be very helpful to us "newbies".  Thank you!

 

while under consideration by Govt agencies, they might request additional documentation - as mine did totatl time 3 wqeeks from start to finish with stamps.  BOI veryu helpful

[Presnock]

On 4/24/2024 at 11:12 PM, Schorsch0815 said:

 

I entered Thailand with a  Non-O Retiree visa (60 days I think) two years ago and I have had two annual extension of stay since. 
 

It’s my understanding that the extension of stay doesn’t affect the visa. So the visa itself is expired, it is just the basis on which the extension of stay was/is granted. Hence there is no visa that can be cancelled. 
 

My LTR got approved today. In the email BOI informs:

 

: If you are currently on a Thai visa category which needs to be cancelled before receiving LTR such as Non-B, Non-IB, Non-F, Smart Visa, Non-O (except for Non-O Retirement visa, Thai Spouse, Guardian), please terminate the current visa while asking the immigration officer to allow extra days of permission to stay after the cancellation or arrange for the visa cancellation on the same day as the appointment date at the immigration office where you got your current visa from. 
 

 

So it’s my understanding that Non-O retirement and / or extension of stay don’t need cancellation. 
 

If anyone here has different information please let me know. I would hate to make the trip to Bangkok twice …

 

 

just talk with the BOI and when you go in for ltr stamps, they will have the immigration office within the BOI cancel your retirement O - mine was done that way in March 2024

[Presnock]

On 4/25/2024 at 2:32 PM, White Rabbit said:

 

That makes sense to me. Another type of visa would collide of course and not "re-newing" the visa after the first 5year have expired would make the existing LTR visa void. No surprises or opaque moments here. One could read into the wording that there's the usual competition between gov agencies going on (immi and BOI in this case but it really is a worldwide phenomenon) but I once was told by a wise woman not to assume... and she was right as usual. 

I blv maintaining the requirements for the original LTR (income, health insurance coverage) will be checked and if you do not then the LTR may be cancelled!

[Misty]

43 minutes ago, SingAPorn said:

After all the hassle and red tape asking for extra documents, let's assume one gets the LTR P visa retiree.

 

But despite the 10 yr LTR stamp given on passport, it seems that the length of stay is to the discretion of the immigration boy on arrival who is free to put what he feels is an acceptable period of stay per trip. Read of reports in AN from LTR visa holders  being asked to produce this or that document on arrival at the airport and given duration of stay only during the validity say of the health insurance produced. (that is for those who did have it). What if one only wants to say say 4 to 5 months per yer and already has a return ticket date reserved, Obviously more cost as one will have to keep the ticket open to change dates if on arrival the immigration fellow makes a fuss and puts some absurd period of stay stamp.

 

 

At the end of the day it's not worth the hassle for the winter birds as one remains at the mercy of the immigration staff on arrival at BKK airport. Not to mention that the process to get the visa is a long journey of hassles, extra documentation, fuss made on details...totally absurd as most of the candidates for retirement own property and do bring in money and spend in Thailand. Better of to spend elsewhere.

 

For the winter birds, far better to either go elsewhere in Asia or to choose another type of visa. LTR makes one feel that one may be above the hassle, but ultimately it's just a huge amount they take and not worth it.

 

Please post links to these reports in AN you say you've read of LTR visa holders being stamped in for shorter periods than they have been given permission to stay.  Never seen any sign of that myself.  Even if this happened in the very rare case of an error, an LTR visa holder would only need get the stamp corrected.  They need not change a ticket.

 

And what is this "huge amount" you say "they" take?  Could you be confusing LTR with the elite card?

 

 

[Thailandbuckeye]

I was given a permission to stay stamp for a little less than 2 years due to my passport expiring. I also received the 10 year stamp.

 

The BOI said when I switch my passport I will then get the remaining time for a total of 5 years, then of course once renewed another 5 years.

 

Maybe this is what people are referring to.

 

[stat]

6 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

So what makes you a German tax resident? And then I don't get it, you couldn't put money into a retirement fund now to draw a pension in a few months. And if you could do so, you could probably qualify as a wealthy global citizen, as you said. Your weakness might be that you may be to attached to your money.

 

AFAIC, I have had an "LTR qualifying" pension without withholding tax for years. So it was a no brainer.

So what is the internal rate of return for your pension AFTER costs, which actuarial tables did you use? Did you buy a 30 year CDS option to cover the risk that the insurance company goes bankrupt?

 

Those pensions never make any sense to a person that is attached to his money like I am. 😉Why should I pay a company for a sub par performance result?

 

BTW if you move to another country they will likely tax your self created pension. But to each their own .

[Ben Zioner]

13 minutes ago, stat said:

Those pensions never make any sense to a person that is attached to his money like I am. 😉Why should I pay a company for a sub par result?

Dunno, But UNJSPF is one of the reasons I did the second half of my career with the UN. Cost me 7.9% of my pensionable income, while the employer paid 15.8. Simple and gave me an "LTR qualifying" pension after 23 years of service. 

 

So I am not rich and not obsessed by money, I let other people doing the dirty thinking for me.

[stat]

12 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

Dunno, But UNJSPF is one of the reasons I did the second half of my career with the UN. Cost me 7.9% of my pensionable income, while the employer paid 15.8. Simple and gave me an "LTR qualifying" pension after 23 years of service. 

 

So I am not rich and not obsessed by money, I let other people doing the dirty thinking for me.

So your pension is a totally different ballgame then deciding to put NOW 750K taxed USD in a pension fund just to get an LTR. This is what I understood you recommended.

 

PS: Thinking is never dirty as Kant used to say:

 

Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-imposed nonage. Nonage is the inability to use one's own understanding without another's guidance.

[Ben Zioner]

9 minutes ago, stat said:

So your pension is a totally different ballgame then deciding to put NOW 750K taxed USD in a pension fund just to get an LTR. This is what I understood you recommended.

 

PS: Thinking is never dirty as Kant used to say:

 

Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-imposed nonage. Nonage is the inability to use one's own understanding without another's guidance.

Well maybe, but I got my pension for valued "clean thinking" anyway.

[Sigmund]

So assuming one gets a LTR P visa and stays only in winter that is less then 180 days will that nevertheless mean that the BOI will be chasing the beneficiairy for his foreign pension and to put tax ? or even start asking for all kinds of statements if the pension is already taxed back home ?

 

Far to much a risk I guess in this LTR P. Not to mention that despite having the LTR one still has to do annual reports to immigration,  who have managed to push in a fine back door to harass and demand again and again all kinds of  updated absurd documentation on anyting they can come up with...who can really be sure ? Some are great of course, but we all know how some can make life hell for foreigners and retirees.

 

Surely there are far better options I guess for those who come over just for winter months in Thailand. This LTR is definately not what we may think as a hassle free visa valid 10 years (2x 5 yrs)  and wrongfully assume there woule be no more dealings with those fine immigration bureaucrats, .

[Sigmund]

On 2/11/2024 at 12:53 PM, Pib said:

 

After you qualify for the 10 year visa there are no annual checks although when you have to reapply at the 5 year point (mid term) to get the 2nd 5 year Permitted to Stay stamp you will basically need to meet the same income requirements that you did when initially qualifying for the LTR visa. 

 

Now it is still unknown at this time if at the mid-term term if BOI/Immigration will require you to prove you met income/insurance requirements for the past 5 years (i.e, your 1st 5 year Permitted to Stay period) or if they will just look at one or two years like when initially qualifying.    I'm guessing it going to be the latter unless they feel a person is trying to game the system.

 

The 80K requirement is "gross" pay (before taxes, deductions, etc).

 

None of the 80K needs to be sent/maintained in Thailand...you can leave it all in another country if desired....or split it between Thailand and another country (ies).    You just need to prove you have the funds somewhere on planet Earth.  

 

If your pension/annuity is only distributed on an annual basis that one each annual payment should be fine.....monthly, quarterly, semi-annually, or annually....the key is it just has to occur each and ever year and be able to prove it.   No skipping a year where you didn't have at least 80K in qualifying income.  You will need to prove the payment is coming from some pension/annuity paying entity (like a statement/benefit letter/etc) versus you or a family member/friend sending you money trying to game the system.     And of course they probably be asking for a copy of your tax return where that pension/annuity might be reported "if" it's a reportable/taxable pension/annuity...tax returns usually provide a secondary form of proof regarding income.

 

Unless something has recently changed the BoI responds/answers questions pretty quick when you send them a Contact inquiry/question....like within a few days or less.  Much, much faster response time than the first six months of the LTR program in late 2022 when they were overwhelmed with applications/questions.    https://ltr.boi.go.th/index.html#contact

 

Good luck.

 

 

 

 

 

But what about all the latest posts showing that the LTR must be "maintained" and that requires annual visits to immigration who will ask to re check all updated documents ?

[SingAPorn]

I also wonder if those comming over to Thailand under a ltr-wealthy pensionner , could suddenly get a tax claim to pay in Thailand even if they do not live in Thailand more then the critical 180 days ?

[stat]

45 minutes ago, Sigmund said:

But what about all the latest posts showing that the LTR must be "maintained" and that requires annual visits to immigration who will ask to re check all updated documents ?

There must a yearly report. What makes you think there is a yearly check? Pls provide a link to the latest posts that a yearly check is due.

[stat]

13 minutes ago, SingAPorn said:

I also wonder if those comming over to Thailand under a ltr-wealthy pensionner , could suddenly get a tax claim to pay in Thailand even if they do not live in Thailand more then the critical 180 days ?

What makes you wonder about UNDER 180 days you are liable for tax? There is not a single law or directive. In fact the law is clear that under 180 days you are not liable for thai tax.