LTR Visa is Now available for Long Term Residency

[K2938]

On 4/5/2024 at 1:33 AM, stat said:

As for the bigger part I only have shares so I can "generate" income by selling shares whenever I want.

As has been previously discussed in this thread at least in the past the BOI was not very excited about any significant amount of capital gains, especially when these were generated based on your decision vs. the decision of some external trustee.  Please therefore kindly update us if you make any progress with this.  Thank you.

Edited April 6 by K2938

[sabaiguy]

On 4/4/2024 at 10:33 AM, stat said:

Thanks a lot! For me the biggest risk is that for some reasons one of the documents get rejected either when applying or when getting the 5 year extension. The 80K passive income per year is tricky while the goal is to not generate any passive income which is taxed in Europe/US etc. As for the bigger part I only have shares so I can "generate" income by selling shares whenever I want.

 

Are the 2 years rolling years or must they be calendar years?

 

Example:

 

2025 Jan-Dec 80K

2026 month Jan alone 80K

 

Can I apply for LTR in Feb 2026 as I already crossed the 80K Limit in Jan 2026?

 

Does the BOI factor in losses in their calculation? Do I need 200K in positive income if I realized a loss of 120K beforehand in the same calendar year ? Example loss of 120K in Jan 2025 and feb to dec 80K plus.

 

I assume they accept a brokerage account like IB to show the 1M USD for the wealthy pensioner LTR and to prove the 80K income?

 

Remains a mystery why it does not suffice to show 1M USD of liquid financial instruments for an intital 5 year LTR Visa but TiT. OK "only" 200K USD per year is not enough to live in TH 🤣

Plan is to come back to TH with 1+1 year OA visa (leaving some days before visa ends and then come back with another year on OA) and then apply inside of TH for LTR.

 

Thanks!

 

 

A lot of interesting questions.  I think you are asking the wrong crowd.  I suggest you direct your questions to BOI.   They were responsive to my questions.   Approved for my appointment (final step) two weeks ago.  Now just have to get back to Thailand.

[Pib]

Below are LTR Visa applications snapshots as of end of 31 Mar 2024 and 31 Aug 2023 to give an idea of applications activity since the LTR Visa Program kickoff 1 Sep 2022.  Snapshots from the BoI LTR website that now seems to be in the groove of providing updates every month or two. 

 

Averages out to 368 applications per month over the last 19 months...since the program's kickoff 1 Sep 2022.  Of course when the program initially opened the number of applications per month was probably much higher....that spike you see with any new program. 

 

Now, if just looking at the last 7 months from 1 Sep 2023 thru 31 Mar 2024 the average is 307 applications per month.  Seems the LTR program has settled into a groove of appox 300 applications per month.  

 

Please note this is applications (applies); it does not say how many of the applications were endorsed (i.e., approved).   The Pensioner category is still the most popular closely followed by Work From Thailand Professional category.....closely followed by the Dependents category in third place.  And the number of Highly Skilled Professionals is making a healthy jump upwards.    Over the last 7 months the Pensioner category has averaged about 87 applications per month. 

 

Thru 31 Mar 2024

 

 

Thru 31 Aug 2023

 

 

[1tent42]

I applied for the LTR visa and submitted my pension benefit letter that showed I have a pension of at least $80K a year.

 

BOI keeps asking me for my tax return and 1099s.  Is this normal?  I thought the pension benefit letter would be sufficient since I've exceeded the $80K minimum requirement for passive income.

[oldcpu]

1 minute ago, 1tent42 said:

I applied for the LTR visa and submitted my pension benefit letter that showed I have a pension of at least $80K a year.

 

BOI keeps asking me for my tax return and 1099s.  Is this normal?  I thought the pension benefit letter would be sufficient since I've exceeded the $80K minimum requirement for passive income.

 

When obtaining my LTR Visa, I first submitted my pension paperwork proof, and BoI still asked for my tax returns.   So I would say it is normal.

.

[1tent42]

2 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 

When obtaining my LTR Visa, I first submitted my pension paperwork proof, and BoI still asked for my tax returns.   So I would say it is normal.

.

Thanks for the reply!

 

I wasn't retired the full year last year so if they go by my 2023 passive income alone I will be just under the $80K requirement. 

 

[Pib]

4 hours ago, 1tent42 said:

I applied for the LTR visa and submitted my pension benefit letter that showed I have a pension of at least $80K a year.

 

BOI keeps asking me for my tax return and 1099s.  Is this normal?  I thought the pension benefit letter would be sufficient since I've exceeded the $80K minimum requirement for passive income.

Yes....this is normal.  I submitted my LTR pensioner application by just submitting my latest "monthly" statement from each of U.S. government pensions, a couple of 1099's showing annual distributions of some dividends and a small IRA annual payment along with the bank interest worksheet from my U.S. tax return 1040.  I also includes a two page memo where I explained my annual income with a chart that basically converted my monthly pensions to an annual amount and also explained how one of my pension (a Veterans' Administration) pension was totally/100% tax free and how another pension was partially tax free.

 

I wanted to see if I could get away without submitting my US 1040 tax return because income on the form is significantly less because VA pension is totally non-taxable & non-reportable on a tax form by US law...in fact, the VA does not provide any annual tax form like a 1099.    I wanted to set the stage "if" BOI asked for my tax return, which is a joint return with the wife, and fell a little below $80K that I had already explained why my tax return amounts were very significantly south of the income amounts shown on the monthly pension statements, etc.   And lo and behold the BOI did ask for 1 year worth of tax return....I uploaded that tax return and within just a few hours I could by a status change BOI was now happy I met the income requirement.  I feel the initial income data I provided had really satisfied them, HOWEVER, BUT they still wanted to my tax return as "secondary" document support and maybe also knowing if I had a tax return as a US person who is required to file an income tax return regardless of what country or planet you live on that by providing a tax return I wasn't trying to pull the income wool over BOI eyes, tap dancing regarding my income, etc.  Now come the LTR 5 year renewal review I won't have to worry that my tax return showing a little less than 80K after all the non-taxable/non reportable stuff since I will have been drawing another retirement fixed income benefit which will up my taxable income by a goodly amount.   

 

So, if you want your LTR visa approved you need to provide a tax return since BOI asked for it.    If you feel you need to explain your income because the tax return might reflect a much lower income then include a one or two page memo explaining the situation.  BOI understands a lot about income taxes, tax laws  in other countries, etc...they can figure out when an applicant is trying to make-up income vs really having the income.   And that many applicants submit  applications once they start drawing a pension and don't want to wait until they have 1 or 2 years worth of "income tax return" documentation to provide further proof of the income.  The primary proof for pension/retirement acct type income is still the monthly, quarterly, and/or annual statement you get from that pension paying entity.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 10 by Pib

[Thailandbuckeye]

After submitting pension verification letter they asked for 2022 and 2023 tax returns. I sent a letter explaining my 2023 wasn’t  ready and only had 2022. They accepted the 2022 as proof.

[HerewardtheWake]

US$100,000 deposit in lieu of Health Insurance- Visit to Chamchuri Square BoI office

 

I wanted to discontinue my  Pacific Cross LTR visa health insurance and use the 100,000 deposit method. I went to the BoI office with: 1. Balance Letter of Charles Schwab bank checking account  which says my average balance for the last 12 months was over $100,00; 2. Account statements for the last 12 months each of which showed over $100,000 each month.

 

A soft spoken young man with a pleasant manner met me. I showed him the Balance Letter and the monthly statement. He had a cursory look at the Balance Letter but did not examine the monthly statements.

 

I explained to him that each time I arrive on my LTR visa, Immigration  asks me for proof of health insurance. Since I now I want to change to the $100,000 deposit method, can BoI give me a statement that they have approved my bank deposit method and exempted me from having to carry insurance? Or, at least a notation on the LTR visa  passport page to that effect?

 

He went back and forth to consult with his supervisor. The final word was that BoI has no policy of giving such a statement. Because it is superfluous and not necessary, according to BoI.

 

He said Immigration is not supposed to ask for health insurance proof for LTR visas. If it happens again, he said, ask them to call BoI. But he agreed with me that such a call would be impractical and went back to the supervisor.

 

He then gave a Thai version and English translation of the LTR Qualifications, Conditions, Criteria, and Conditions for LTR. He underlined Section 2.2.3 which states that: --- a deposit balance of at least USD 100,000 in a bank account in Thailand or abroad retained for least 12 months as of the date of application.

 

If Immigration asks me for proof of health insurance, show them the document, he said. 

 

That was the best BoI could do.

 

My dilemma is: at over 75, if I discontinue my Pacific Cross policy , and if at some point BoI changes the LTR health insurance rules, I will not be able to get health insurance.

 

So, is it best to continue carrying the health insurance policy?

 

[SHA 2 BKK]

16 minutes ago, HerewardtheWake said:

US$100,000 deposit in lieu of Health Insurance- Visit to Chamchuri Square BoI office

 

I wanted to discontinue my  Pacific Cross LTR visa health insurance and use the 100,000 deposit method. I went to the BoI office with: 1. Balance Letter of Charles Schwab bank checking account  which says my average balance for the last 12 months was over $100,00; 2. Account statements for the last 12 months each of which showed over $100,000 each month.

 

A soft spoken young man with a pleasant manner met me. I showed him the Balance Letter and the monthly statement. He had a cursory look at the Balance Letter but did not examine the monthly statements.

 

I explained to him that each time I arrive on my LTR visa, Immigration  asks me for proof of health insurance. Since I now I want to change to the $100,000 deposit method, can BoI give me a statement that they have approved my bank deposit method and exempted me from having to carry insurance? Or, at least a notation on the LTR visa  passport page to that effect?

 

He went back and forth to consult with his supervisor. The final word was that BoI has no policy of giving such a statement. Because it is superfluous and not necessary, according to BoI.

 

He said Immigration is not supposed to ask for health insurance proof for LTR visas. If it happens again, he said, ask them to call BoI. But he agreed with me that such a call would be impractical and went back to the supervisor.

 

He then gave a Thai version and English translation of the LTR Qualifications, Conditions, Criteria, and Conditions for LTR. He underlined Section 2.2.3 which states that: --- a deposit balance of at least USD 100,000 in a bank account in Thailand or abroad retained for least 12 months as of the date of application.

 

If Immigration asks me for proof of health insurance, show them the document, he said. 

 

That was the best BoI could do.

 

My dilemma is: at over 75, if I discontinue my Pacific Cross policy , and if at some point BoI changes the LTR health insurance rules, I will not be able to get health insurance.

 

So, is it best to continue carrying the health insurance policy?

 

I have never been asked by Immigration about my Health Insurance and I have been in and out over a dozen times using my LTR P.    I’m sorry I can’t advise you mate but really Immigration should not question your Insurance situation.   

[Presnock]

On 4/1/2024 at 12:13 PM, HerewardtheWake said:

PIB's points are quite important. I am sure BoI will insist on an LTR visa holder's having met the requirements during all the time the visa has been valid. 

well, if a US pensioner as this LTR then the historical documentation should be easy to provide if one uses annual 1040 as we are required to maintain 5 years worth of submitted forms anyway. I get an annual form from OPM also that documents that I still have the health insurance too.  

[Ben Zioner]

On 4/3/2024 at 11:58 PM, Misty said:

 

You may misunderstand the LTR visa's tax benefits.  I currently have the LTR HSP visa but am not "legally tax-free." I will pay a substantial amount of Thai income tax on my salary, albeit at a flat rate of 17%. Previously on a different LTR visa at progressive rates I paid up to the top 35% marginal rate, or effectively a total of c30% including RMF deductions.  

I like that 17% figure, without any "schadenfreude". IMHO a fair income tax system would be one where where tax would kick in, at a lower rate of 3% to 5% of total income and no one would pay more than 15% to 20%. I think  I'd be ok I think if they taxed my foreign income at 17%.

[Presnock]

On 4/10/2024 at 3:23 PM, 1tent42 said:

I applied for the LTR visa and submitted my pension benefit letter that showed I have a pension of at least $80K a year.

 

BOI keeps asking me for my tax return and 1099s.  Is this normal?  I thought the pension benefit letter would be sufficient since I've exceeded the $80K minimum requirement for passive income.

when I was doing my application, I sent them the 1099R's and because OPM puts 4 on one page, and the 1099R is very small I guess they didn't understand it, so I added my 1040 and immediately was approved with the letter from my govt sponsored health insurance company.

[Ben Zioner]

On 4/8/2024 at 9:15 PM, Pib said:

Below are LTR Visa applications snapshots as of end of 31 Mar 2024 and 31 Aug 2023 to give an idea of applications activity since the LTR Visa Program kickoff 1 Sep 2022.  Snapshots from the BoI LTR website that now seems to be in the groove of providing updates every month or two. 

 

Averages out to 368 applications per month over the last 19 months...since the program's kickoff 1 Sep 2022.  Of course when the program initially opened the number of applications per month was probably much higher....that spike you see with any new program. 

 

Now, if just looking at the last 7 months from 1 Sep 2023 thru 31 Mar 2024 the average is 307 applications per month.  Seems the LTR program has settled into a groove of appox 300 applications per month.  

 

Please note this is applications (applies); it does not say how many of the applications were endorsed (i.e., approved).   The Pensioner category is still the most popular closely followed by Work From Thailand Professional category.....closely followed by the Dependents category in third place.  And the number of Highly Skilled Professionals is making a healthy jump upwards.    Over the last 7 months the Pensioner category has averaged about 87 applications per month. 

 

Thru 31 Mar 2024

 

 

Thru 31 Aug 2023

 

 

Worrying low numbers...

[oldcpu]

2 hours ago, HerewardtheWake said:

My dilemma is: at over 75, if I discontinue my Pacific Cross policy , and if at some point BoI changes the LTR health insurance rules, I will not be able to get health insurance.

 

So, is it best to continue carrying the health insurance policy?

 

 

Each person's situation is different.  I am age-70 and I obtain subsidized health insurance (as part of my pension) from Europe, that while it exceeds the LTR Health Insurance requirements, the Insurance company does not provide their information in a format that the BoI folks want to see.  So I have gone with the $100K US$ in the bank equivalent as 'self health insurance proof'.

 

Still, I have no intention of giving up my superior health insurance from Europe.  As you note if at our age one's health insurance policy is discontinued, it be very difficult to get appropriate health insurance again.  Keeping $100k US cash equivalent (and keeping my superior health insurance) is not an issue for me.

 

My recommendation, if it is not a big financial issue to maintain the $100k US$ equivalent cash, and not an issue to keep separate health insurance, then keep both. 

 

But it reads to me this is a financial issue for you - so you need to choose which you wish to go with.  Your guess is likely just as good as anyone else's guess.

[JimGant]

3 hours ago, HerewardtheWake said:

I explained to him that each time I arrive on my LTR visa, Immigration  asks me for proof of health insurance.

That's bizarre. Never heard of airport immigration asking about health insurance -- only visa issuers and extenders. They certainly didn't when I was traveling on my OA visa. Anybody else experience this? If so, I guess if I ever travel again on my LTR visa, I need to carry a copy of my Tricare  bonafides.

[JimGant]

3 hours ago, HerewardtheWake said:

and if at some point BoI changes the LTR health insurance rules,

If they ever did, as an upstanding outfit, they'd grandfather you.

[K2938]

6 hours ago, HerewardtheWake said:

My dilemma is: at over 75, if I discontinue my Pacific Cross policy , and if at some point BoI changes the LTR health insurance rules, I will not be able to get health insurance.

 

So, is it best to continue carrying the health insurance policy?

If you can at all afford it, it is best NOT to terminate your health insurance.  You have absolutely no assurance that the rules for the LTR visa will not be changed tomorrow or that the LTR visa might even be entirely terminated.  Health insurance is therefore very important for you. 

[aublumberg]

6 hours ago, SHA 2 BKK said:

I have never been asked by Immigration about my Health Insurance and I have been in and out over a dozen times using my LTR P.   

Same here

[1tent42]

2 hours ago, JimGant said:

That's bizarre. Never heard of airport immigration asking about health insurance -- only visa issuers and extenders. They certainly didn't when I was traveling on my OA visa. Anybody else experience this? If so, I guess if I ever travel again on my LTR visa, I need to carry a copy of my Tricare  bonafides.

This happened to me this past February arriving to BKK on an OA visa.  IO asked me for proof of health insurance but I didn’t have a copy since nobody asked for it first time I entered on the OA visa. 
 

I held up the line trying to find a copy on my phone. 
 

I was stamped in only up until the health insurance is valid. 

Edited April 11 by 1tent42
Clarification

[Pib]

17 minutes ago, 1tent42 said:

This happened to me this past February arriving to BKK on an OA visa.  IO asked me for proof of health insurance but I didn’t have a copy since nobody asked for it first time I entered on the OA visa. 
 

I held up the line trying to find a copy on my phone. 
 

I was stamped in only up until the health insurance is valid. 

A Non OA visa is different....that's the Non-immigrant visa that requires health insurance....I can understand a IO asking to see health insurance not to imply they would on each entry.   The OA visa is typically one people try to cancel and get another type like a Non O visa that does not require insurance...lord knows there is about a zillion post on AN regarding people trying to dump their OA and get a O visa..   I expect it's not uncommon for some IOs to ask for insurance paperwork when seeing a person has an OA visa.   Yea, an LTR visa require health coverage but it can be a health policy or being self-insured.

 

If an IO asks for health insurance for a Non-O visa or LTR Visa I expect it just an inexperienced IO especially if challenging an LTR visa.   I doubt some IOs see LTR visas very often....I expect it's like an a rare bird sighting for some IOs and it may confuse some, but LTR visa are slowly being sighted more and more.

Edited April 11 by Pib

[SingAPorn]

Those remarkable champs in the immigration booths just love to see how they can make a fuss against foreigners. If a foreigner has a been granted a visa valid for x years, the immigration fellow just needs to stamp the entry date and that's it.

 

But we all know depending on which chap or lady one can fall upon they will try to fuss on your health insurance, how much cash you got etc...fully knowing that a retiree can spend in a day, what those lovely people earn in a month maybe. And then they whine why foreigners do not want to come to Thailand.

[Misty]

14 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

I like that 17% figure, without any "schadenfreude". IMHO a fair income tax system would be one where where tax would kick in, at a lower rate of 3% to 5% of total income and no one would pay more than 15% to 20%. I think  I'd be ok I think if they taxed my foreign income at 17%.

 

For foreign remittances to be taxed at an effective rate above 17%, based on the current progressive tax schedule and using standard deductions and without an LTR visa, I figure you'd need to bring in about Bt8.5m each year (c.$236k) - without any foreign tax credits to offset it.  Of course, a moot point if you have one of the LTR visas (except LTR HSP).

[Ben Zioner]

29 minutes ago, Misty said:

 

For foreign remittances to be taxed at an effective rate above 17%, based on the current progressive tax schedule and using standard deductions and without an LTR visa, I figure you'd need to bring in about Bt8.5m each year (c.$236k) - without any foreign tax credits to offset it.  Of course, a moot point if you have one of the LTR visas (except LTR HSP).

No it is much lower than that, about 2 Million.

[Ben Zioner]

1 hour ago, Ben Zioner said:

No it is much lower than that, about 2 Million.

Without deductions one gets to 17% with 1.7 Million, so add to that the 300k to 400k deductions, a normal taxpayer reaches 17% of net income with an annual income of 2.1 Million Baht.

 

 

[Misty]

1 hour ago, Ben Zioner said:

No it is much lower than that, about 2 Million.

 

Yes, I agree it is lower - probably not enough coffee this morning.  rechecked and it looks like THB 2.2m in income would result in tax of THB377k or an effective rate of c.17%

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[HerewardtheWake]

No, it is not a financial issue to keep both the $100,000 deposit AND a health insurance policy. That is what I will do as a measure of safety in case BoI changes their policies. A policy with 300,000 Baht deductible costs only a premium of 42,000 Baht, so it is not a big deal.

 

Yes, for many IOs, an LTR is a rare bird sighting. At least in the sticks- submitting a TM90 at Krabi Immigration caused a bit of confusion among the staff because they have never seen LTR before. May be as LTR numbers increase, IOs will become familiar with it.

 

Thanks for  all comments.

[Ben Zioner]

2 hours ago, HerewardtheWake said:

Yes, for many IOs, an LTR is a rare bird sighting. At least in the sticks- submitting a TM90 at Krabi Immigration caused a bit of confusion among the staff because they have never seen LTR before. May be as LTR numbers increase, IOs will become familiar with it.

I reckon a TM95 would have helped.

[sabaiguy]

On 4/10/2024 at 1:23 AM, 1tent42 said:

I applied for the LTR visa and submitted my pension benefit letter that showed I have a pension of at least $80K a year.

 

BOI keeps asking me for my tax return and 1099s.  Is this normal?  I thought the pension benefit letter would be sufficient since I've exceeded the $80K minimum requirement for passive income.

I submitted 2 years (21 & 22) of both 1040 and 1099-R.  Both years showing clear compliance with LTR requirements.  They then came back and asked for my 23 1040 (this was Mar 24).  I had to explain to them that US citizens don't have to file 1040's until Apr.   Luckily I did have a 23 1099-R which they were satisfied with.

[hcvc]

A plea for help from someone who has already been through the process of obtaining a BOI LTR Visa for Wealthy Pensioners - would you please explain to me what it means to show evidence your current visa has been canceled.

 

In case the applicant choses to have LTR visa issued at One Stop Center for Visa and Work Permit (OSS) in Bangkok, the applicant will be required to update latest travel information and upload passport pages with all Thai stamps (The file must be scanned both left and right pages per one sheet AND ALL SHEETS MERGED IN ONE PDF FILE), particularly biodata page, current visa which has been cancelled with the remaining permission to stay sufficient to receive LTR Visa*

 

For further information about current visa termination, please contact the immigration office where you got the current visa.

 

As per instructions from the BOI my wife contacted our local immigration office. The immigration office said they were not familiar with / had never done a LTR Visa for Wealthy Pensioners.

 

I would be grateful for your guidance