LTR Visa is Now available for Long Term Residency

[oldcpu]

I recently returned to Phuket after 1 month outside Thailand, traveling in Europe.

 

I could not find a 'Fast Track' line at the Phuket International Airport, so my Thai wife and I entered the Thai line, which I note had no one in line waiting to clear immigration.  This was in stark contrast to the line to clear immigration for non-Thai, which was very long.  I venture a 30 minute or longer wait in line to clear immigration.

 

My Thai wife entered first, and noted to the Immigration officer that I was 'accompanying her' (she did not say we were married, although we are married) and she advised the IO that I was on an LTR visa.  At my turn on line, the Immigration officer (IO) looked at the LTR visa in my passport, and then the IO left the immigration booth for about a minute with my passport.  I could hear in Thai the word LTR being noted back and forth among 3 or 4 immigration officers talking.  Then the IO returned, stamped my entry into Thailand in my passport (with a permission to stay until June-2028) and I cleared immigration.  

 

All in all, very quick.  Maybe a few minutes at most.  It sure beats 30 minutes in line if forced to go in the non-Thai line.  Although I note when I had a Type-OA Visa (and also when I entered Thailand visa-exempt) that when I was accompanied by my Thai wife, I would often go through the Thai line, which was faster than the non-Thai line at immigration.

 

After my clearing immigration and talking to my wife, she noted the Thai immigration officials were chatting (while my entry at Phuket immigration was being processed), about the fact that I had an LTR visa and that they had not seen one very often. This was also the first LTR visa that the specific IO processing my passport had seen before.

 

My wife also noted she had asked the IO (who processed her Thai passport) if there was a Fast Track line in Phuket International Airport for LTR visa and she was advised that Phuket had not yet setup such a Fast Track line.

[BKKNono]

On 9/26/2023 at 6:58 PM, Pib said:

Today I visited the BoI LTR section and also the BoI immigration who are across from each other on the 18th floor at Chamchuri Square.   I first went into the BoI LTR section to ask if the 1 year address report can be done online or via mail.  At this point I'm dealing with young reps who basically initially meet people visiting the BoI LTR section and do their best to provide answers.   After about a 10 minute discussion the result boiled down that the report must be done in person or by some one you designate (regardless of where you live in Thailand).  No online or mail.  OK this is inline with what BoI told me several months in some back and forth emails which I posted earlier in this thread.   Note: later in my story as I ask the question again to some different folks I get a different answer much more to my liking.  Read on.

 

So now I go across the hall to Immigration to get a Certificate of Residence (CR) since I buying a new car....this was my primary reason in going to BoI Immigration today.  Here's how it went: when I first walked into Immigration's doors I saw the place was packed....95% of the waiting/queue area filled with bodies, but at that same instant I noticed all the immigration officers counters were manned but no customers standing in front of any of the counters....I wondered if something was going on.  Anyway, the immigration rep that meets you at the entrance asked what I needed....I said I'm here for a CR and I have a LTR visa.  When the immigration rep heard me say I have an LTR visa, he said Oh (like it had a special meaning...or maybe I reading too much into it) and then he immediately lead me over to the immigration information counter where I told the officer at that counter what I needed and I asked how long to get one...the officer said one hour with a Bt500 fee.  The officer looked at the form I had completed (a form that Cheang Wattana supposedly uses) and said at BoI immigration they use a slightly different form....I filled out their form which is 95% identical to the CW form.  The officer then directs me over to counter 8 I think it was.   I walk directly to counter #8 and the officer checks my forms...the officer wants the form I had just competed, copies of key passport pages like the first page and page showing my visa, and my latest 1 year address report.  The officer then asked for Bt500 which I paid and then directed me over to counter #10 that is the counter that actually issues the CR.  Now this # 10 counter officer also wanted a copy of my latest TM30 which I had a copy of.   The officer then said the CR would be ready in 1 hour.  I come back in 50 minutes and it's indeed ready....CR in hand. During this whole process I was never issued a queue ticket....it was like I was being Fast Tracked or maybe I just got lucky.

 

I then asked the counter #10 rep the 1 year address reporting question to see what answer I might get...she just directed me back to the main information desk (but she went also) where I talked to an immigration officer who confirmed with another officer that "Yes, you can do the 1 year report by mail to them....use the address on the SMART visa website."  But no online capability at this time to do a 1 year address report.  That was good to hear.

 

OK, with the conflicting answers regarding the 1 year address from the BoI LTR side and the Immigration side I go back to BoI to ask the 1 year report again.  Initially talked to the young rep again and explained the conflicting answers.  He asked me to set down and he get a senior BoI LTR rep to come talk to me about it.  That rep arrived in a few minutes and said a person can do the 1 year report at their "local/nearby" immigration using the TM95 form (not the TM47) and immigration offices had been notified/asked to support...but he also kinda implied some immigration offices may not be up-to-speed on the issue and direct a LTR visa person back to BoI LTR immigration.  And as mentioned above BoI immigration also said the report can be done my "mail" like described on the SMART visa website.

 

And then I asked the rep about the recent tax news regarding Thailand now possibly taxing a person's home country income.  He said the BoI has talked to the Revenue Dept about this and basically those with LTR visa are exempt....probably best said just reposting below snapshot from K2938's post from a few days ago.

 

 

I'm now done...out of the building I go....got my CR and got some courtesy questions answered regarding the 1 year report and tax issues---of course subject to change.   I got good support today at the BoI LTR Section and across the hall at Immigration.  Cheers.

 

 

 

This year I "naively" submitted a P.D 91 for the overseas income remitted into Thailand. However the RD came back confirming as a LTR visa holder, overseas income is exempted from tax. Since the tax exemption for overseas income is written in the law (Royal Gazette Decree No 743), LTR visa holders are not concerned by the RD recent announcement...unless they amend the law.

[Middle Aged Grouch]

22 hours ago, oldcpu said:

It is actually very standard that those renting long term in Thailand will also, in addition to the rent, need to pay for water and electricity. The landlord can not guess in advance how much water and electricity the tenant will use, so the bill for those will be passed on to the tenant.  As for cleaning, many landlords will require that the tenant pay for a maid to come some TBD time per month (from 1 to 4 times per month) to clean.  Having the placed cleaned after departure is very common.

 

I rented in Germany for 2 decades, and it was common there for the tenant to pay for electricity, water, and for cleaning.

Yes I understand what you mean, but the rent I was referring to where they were charged for stay and separare bill for electric and cleaner was a hotel style rent scheme of pool villas in Hua Hin. Imagine you going in any hotel in Thailand and they charge you separate...it would lead to an uproar all over social media and give bad publicity one the visitor is back home.

[SHA 2 BKK]

Saw this on a Reddit Sub Forum.   Very much of interest to LTR VIsa holders given the discussions on overseas remittances.  It comes from an AM-Cham meeting specifically to discuss the RD’s announcement on taxing overseas remittance.  

“

Just listened in on the AMCHAM presentation.

Key takeaways -

As of Jan 1, 2024

-You are a Tax resident in Thailand regardless of your Visa status if you stay here 180 days or more. Always been the case, but not enforced. Stay less than 180 days, you can transfer as much money as you want into the country - no need to declare or file thai tax.

- Any transfers into the country will need to be declared. To avoid double taxation, you will need to file taxes in Thailand yearly and claim exemption.

- Thai Elite Visa does not help. The only visa classes that will allow tax free transfers the 4 categories of LTR. https://www.belaws.com/thailand/ltr-visa-tax-benefits/ - under theses visas you will need to work anyway, but income tax is capped at 17%, transfers into Thailand, are tax free.

- They will be monitoring foreign credit card and debit card transactions in Thailand and will tie into the global system. How they will do that is anyone's guess.”

 

 

[OneZero]

28 minutes ago, SHA 2 BKK said:

Saw this on a Reddit Sub Forum.   Very much of interest to LTR VIsa holders given the discussions on overseas remittances.  It comes from an AM-Cham meeting specifically to discuss the RD’s announcement on taxing overseas remittance.  

“

Just listened in on the AMCHAM presentation.

Key takeaways -

As of Jan 1, 2024

-You are a Tax resident in Thailand regardless of your Visa status if you stay here 180 days or more. Always been the case, but not enforced. Stay less than 180 days, you can transfer as much money as you want into the country - no need to declare or file thai tax.

- Any transfers into the country will need to be declared. To avoid double taxation, you will need to file taxes in Thailand yearly and claim exemption.

- Thai Elite Visa does not help. The only visa classes that will allow tax free transfers the 4 categories of LTR. https://www.belaws.com/thailand/ltr-visa-tax-benefits/ - under theses visas you will need to work anyway, but income tax is capped at 17%, transfers into Thailand, are tax free.

- They will be monitoring foreign credit card and debit card transactions in Thailand and will tie into the global system. How they will do that is anyone's guess.”

 

 

My first impression /knee jerk reaction, is that expecting 180 day+ residents to voluntarily "..file taxes in Thailand yearly and claim exemption", would be an administrative nightmare.

[aublumberg]

At long last we may see a rapid rise in LTR visa interest if the tax exempt benefit for LTR-T/P/W categories remains (and no indication for any changes).

[K2938]

1 hour ago, aublumberg said:

At long last we may see a rapid rise in LTR visa interest if the tax exempt benefit for LTR-T/P/W categories remains (and no indication for any changes).

There is indeed a remittance tax benefit of the LTR visa, but since it appears to only apply to earnings which have arisen while holding the LTR visa, the benefit is probably not so great.  Moreover, it is still entirely unclear how mixed funds will be treated and mixed funds will be the category in which most prior earnings/savings probably will be for most people which could make bringing any prior money into Thailand a nightmare.   Probably things are taxable unless you can prove otherwise and the proving otherwise could be extremely difficult/impossible in many or even most instances.  If it is concerning current salary, then the benefit is clearly there, but most LTR visa holders do not work.

Edited October 6, 2023 by K2938

[BritTim]

On 9/29/2023 at 10:20 PM, leedm said:

regarding the marriage Visa, do you know if that will allow me to work for my foreign company ?   I assume I’d need to apply for a work permit?   Any idea where I can find more information about that

 

Sorry for the slow response (I was travelling off the beaten track with little Internet access).

 

You cannot get a work permit based on working for a foreign company. However, if your company is willing to allow you to be in technical violation of the rules, there is actually no issue in practice. The Thai authorities are aware that they have no current solution for digital nomads, and working for a foreign employer (without you having any interaction with Thai clients) is 100% tolerated although technically in violation of the labour laws. The problem many run into is the paranoia of corporate lawyers. They will tend to insist that this is illegal and exposes the company to possible legal penalties (which is ridiculous but invariably advice accepted by executive management).

[SHA 2 BKK]

15 minutes ago, K2938 said:

There is indeed a remittance tax benefit of the LTR visa, but since it appears to only apply to earnings which have arisen while holding the LTR visa, the benefit is probably not so great.  Moreover, it is still entirely unclear how mixed funds will be treated in the category of which most prior earnings/savings probably will be for most people which could make bringing any prior money into Thailand a nightmare.   If it is concerning remitting current salary, then the benefit is clearly there, but most LTR visa holders do not work.

10 year LTR Visa and no foreign remittance tax!   “…the benefit is probably not so great”.  Would love to hear your reasoning matey. 

[K2938]

3 minutes ago, SHA 2 BKK said:

10 year LTR Visa and no foreign remittance tax!   “…the benefit is probably not so great”.  Would love to hear your reasoning matey. 

Feel free to read what is written here and in the general foreign remittance tax thread and you will get a better understanding.

[SHA 2 BKK]

1 minute ago, K2938 said:

Feel free to read what is written here and in the general foreign remittance tax thread and you will get a better understanding.

Righto cobber - you sound like you would make a good politician!  Good luck to you.  

[Yumthai]

2 hours ago, K2938 said:

There is indeed a remittance tax benefit of the LTR visa, but since it appears to only apply to earnings which have arisen while holding the LTR visa, the benefit is probably not so great.  Moreover, it is still entirely unclear how mixed funds will be treated and mixed funds will be the category in which most prior earnings/savings probably will be for most people which could make bringing any prior money into Thailand a nightmare.   Probably things are taxable unless you can prove otherwise and the proving otherwise could be extremely difficult/impossible in many or even most instances.  If it is concerning current salary, then the benefit is clearly there, but most LTR visa holders do not work.

About prior earnings/savings: you buy then sell any low volatility asset (transactions happen outside of Thailand) while holding LTR visa. Sale proceed can be remitted tax-free in Thailand because you have an evidence if asked that capital gain occurred while you were holding LTR visa.

[K2938]

40 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

About prior earnings/savings: you buy then sell any low volatility asset (transactions happen outside of Thailand) while holding LTR visa. Sale proceed can be remitted tax-free in Thailand because you have an evidence if asked that capital gain occurred while you were holding LTR visa.

Could work or not depending on how far back they look and how mixed funds are treated.  So while holding a LTR visa if offshore you put 98 in a short-term bond fund which you then sell at 100 and then remit this to Thailand, then the 2 (100-98) is certainly tax free because it is foreign income while holding a LTR visa.   But what about the 98 which is income from prior years where you did not hold an LTR visa?  Is this now also "cleaned" or not.  That is currently not clear at all. 

Edited October 6, 2023 by K2938

[SuperSaiyan]

On 9/30/2023 at 11:37 AM, Middle Aged Grouch said:

I knew a family who rented a pool villa in Hua Hin. They were charged for the rent, separate bill for electricity and another one for getting the house cleaned at their departure.

WHAT? The audacity! And they were even presented with the bills! UN <deleted> BELIVABLE!

[Mike Teavee]

24 minutes ago, K2938 said:

Could work or not depending on how far back they look and how mixed funds are treated.  So while holding a LTR visa if offshore you put 98 in a short-term bond fund which you then sell at 100 and then remit this to Thailand, then the 2 (100-98) is certainly tax free because it is foreign income while holding a LTR visa.   But what about the 98 which is income from prior years where you did not hold an LTR visa?  Is this now also "cleaned" or not.  That is currently not clear at all. 

Depends on whether you were Thai Tax Resident in the years the income was earned & what Tax was paid on that income.

 

E.G. I moved to Thailand full time in 2020 so any money I bring into Thailand that was earned before then is not taxable. 
 

 

[K2938]

2 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

Depends on whether you were Thai Tax Resident in the years the income was earned & what Tax was paid on that income.

 

E.G. I moved to Thailand full time in 2020 so any money I bring into Thailand that was earned before then is not taxable.

I agree with this.  But most LTR visa holders are pensioners who have already lived here on other visas for ages and just switched, so their situation is frequently probably rather different.  And then you still have the currently not yet clear issue of how mixed funds are treated. 

[Ben Zioner]

3 hours ago, K2938 said:

There is indeed a remittance tax benefit of the LTR visa, but since it appears to only apply to earnings which have arisen while holding the LTR visa, the benefit is probably not so great. 

Dunno, what your situation is. But my 100000 USD/Year worth of pensions would remain tax free. I have about two years worth of savings of which I'll transfer one half or two thirds to my BB FCD accounts this year, so very minor benefit ?.. 

 

But I'll keep my fingers crossed, hope it is all true.

[Yumthai]

5 hours ago, K2938 said:

Could work or not depending on how far back they look and how mixed funds are treated.  So while holding a LTR visa if offshore you put 98 in a short-term bond fund which you then sell at 100 and then remit this to Thailand, then the 2 (100-98) is certainly tax free because it is foreign income while holding a LTR visa.   But what about the 98 which is income from prior years where you did not hold an LTR visa?  Is this now also "cleaned" or not.  That is currently not clear at all. 

You sell an asset be it property, car, gold, jewelry, watch, stock, bond, ... you name it.

You get a sale receipt/certificate while holding LTR Visa.

You transfer sale proceed to Thailand.

TRD asks you where the money comes from.

You show the sale receipt/certificate that indicates a year you were under LTR visa.

Remittance is tax exempted.

 

TRD will never ask you the full history of when/how did you buy the asset in the first place because it's a never-ending story. You could have made multiple trades of multiple assets with multiple accounts within the same calendar year.

 

[K2938]

28 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

TRD will never ask you the full history of when/how did you buy the asset in the first place because it's a never-ending story. You could have made multiple trades of multiple assets with multiple accounts within the same calendar year.

Well, some other countries having remittance taxation do.  So I am not saying that it necessarily will be like this, but this is a real possibility.  We will see.

[aublumberg]

15 hours ago, K2938 said:

Could work or not depending on how far back they look 

What makes you think it would be retroactive? Any indication in any announcement or regulatory changes? Their announcement says effective 01 Jan 2024.

[SHA 2 BKK]

I guess no one knows the answer yet but will LTR Visa holders, who are Thai Tax Residents, have to lodge a Tax Return for foreign funds remitted (earned in the previous year) even though such remittances will remain Tax Free because of the Visa Status?  
 

Personally I can’t see why one would need to be lodged as no tax would be due.  
 

I have emailed the BOI and will revert if answered but there may be a forum member who can answer more quickly!   
 

Safe weekend all. 

[Ben Zioner]

33 minutes ago, SHA 2 BKK said:

I guess no one knows the answer yet but will LTR Visa holders, who are Thai Tax Residents, have to lodge a Tax Return for foreign funds remitted (earned in the previous year) even though such remittances will remain Tax Free because of the Visa Status?  
 

Personally I can’t see why one would need to be lodged as no tax would be due.  
 

I have emailed the BOI and will revert if answered but there may be a forum member who can answer more quickly!   
 

Safe weekend all. 

Well I don't know, but  I believe that we will have to file a return to claim the 10% or 15%  withholding tax that will be slapped on incoming remittance.  Think of it this is the  only way the system could work.

[SHA 2 BKK]

Just now, Ben Zioner said:

Well I don't know, but  I believe that we will have to file a return to claim the 10% or 15%  withholding tax that will be slapped on incoming remittance.  Think of it this is the  only way the system could work.

That would be a bugger mate.  Bloody crazy and more paperwork.  Let see how this plays out but if that’s the case I will keep my coin out of Thailand.  
 

I do business in 7 countries.  Some Third World.  None charge a withholding tax on incoming credits.   Interest yes but TIT!  

[deejai33]

On 9/30/2023 at 4:37 PM, Middle Aged Grouch said:

I knew a family who rented a pool villa in Hua Hin. They were charged for the rent, separate bill for electricity and another one for getting the house cleaned at their departure.

Seems reasonable to me.  Often like that.   Read the small print on contracts.  Surely electricity was mentioned as extra, in the big print. 555.

 

Cleaning fees are annoying, yes.

[JimGant]

20 hours ago, K2938 said:

Well, some other countries having remittance taxation do

What countries might those be? Remittance taxation vs income taxation seems so weird. Are these OECD countries? Thanx.

[oldcpu]

On 10/6/2023 at 9:30 AM, SHA 2 BKK said:

Saw this on a Reddit Sub Forum.   ...  The only visa classes that will allow tax free transfers the 4 categories of LTR. https://www.belaws.com/thailand/ltr-visa-tax-benefits/ ...   transfers into Thailand, are tax free.

 

Reads to be good news for LTR visa holders whose pension income brought into Thailand comes from abroad ....

[oldcpu]

On 10/6/2023 at 4:30 PM, Mike Teavee said:

Depends on whether you were Thai Tax Resident in the years the income was earned & what Tax was paid on that income.

 

E.G. I moved to Thailand full time in 2020 so any money I bring into Thailand that was earned before then is not taxable. 
 

 

I seriously doubt for LTR visa holders that savings from past years (prior to obtaining the LTR visa) will be taxed when transferred to Thailand.  Further in many cases those now on pension in Thailand were likely already taxed by countries that have tax agreements with Thailand,  and they have saved that already taxed money,  which means no double tax (due to such tax agreements).

 

Obviously, if a pensioner in Thailand was also working in Thailand, prior to obtaining the LTR visa, and they did not pay Thai tax the LTR visa is NOT going to suddenly exempt them from what they failed to legally do in previous years.  But to see beyond that to think past already taxed savings from abroad would suddenly be taxed when the money is brought into Thailand to invest, or to use for Thailand living expenses, is contrary to the entire reason of the LTR and in my view highly unlikely.

 

Honestly - I just read a bunch of scaremongering on this thread about potential tax changes - full of speculation. 

Edited October 7, 2023 by oldcpu

[K2938]

3 hours ago, JimGant said:

What countries might those be? Remittance taxation vs income taxation seems so weird. Are these OECD countries? Thanx.

The UK and various former colonies of the UK or countries with a legal system in the UK tradition for example have remittance taxation for certain non-domiciled, but tax resident individuals.  You can google on the internet.  Somewhere higher up in this or the LTR thread I also as an example posted a link to some of the rules from the UK which can give you an indication of how complex things might become.

Edited October 7, 2023 by K2938

[Misty]

On 10/6/2023 at 9:30 AM, SHA 2 BKK said:

Saw this on a Reddit Sub Forum.   Very much of interest to LTR VIsa holders given the discussions on overseas remittances.  It comes from an AM-Cham meeting specifically to discuss the RD’s announcement on taxing overseas remittance.  

“

Just listened in on the AMCHAM presentation.

Key takeaways -

As of Jan 1, 2024

-You are a Tax resident in Thailand regardless of your Visa status if you stay here 180 days or more. Always been the case, but not enforced. Stay less than 180 days, you can transfer as much money as you want into the country - no need to declare or file thai tax.

- Any transfers into the country will need to be declared. To avoid double taxation, you will need to file taxes in Thailand yearly and claim exemption.

- Thai Elite Visa does not help. The only visa classes that will allow tax free transfers the 4 categories of LTR. https://www.belaws.com/thailand/ltr-visa-tax-benefits/ - under theses visas you will need to work anyway, but income tax is capped at 17%, transfers into Thailand, are tax free.

- They will be monitoring foreign credit card and debit card transactions in Thailand and will tie into the global system. How they will do that is anyone's guess.”

 

 

For LTR visas, the BoI has clarified that these three categories allow tax free transfers:  GWC, P, WP.  But the LTR Highly Skilled Professionals does not.  Conversely, only one LTR visa has income tax capped at 17% - the LTR HSP.  The other LTR visas all have the normal progressive income tax rates up to 35%.

[K2938]

14 hours ago, aublumberg said:

What makes you think it would be retroactive? Any indication in any announcement or regulatory changes? Their announcement says effective 01 Jan 2024.

There appear to be two things to differentiate:

(1) The time at which the money is remitted to Thailand:  The new tax law interpretation indeed only covers remittances made on or after Jan 1, 2024.

 

(2) The other thing however is the time the foreign income arose, i.e. not when it was remitted, but when it arose.  According to the Thai language Q&A from the Thai Revenue Department on the new tax law interpretation from a few days ago the link to which is posted higher up in this or the general tax thread it would appear that this is NOT limited to income which only arose on or after Jan 1, 2024. 

 

 

Edited October 7, 2023 by K2938