LTR Visa is Now available for Long Term Residency

[TravelerEastWest]

On 3/2/2024 at 6:32 PM, JimGant said:

 

Another cavalier comment. By the way, what's your nationality? I've kind of got it narrowed down....

I am an American I tried to help you - please ignore my comments going forward as you prefer not to listen... Good luck with your form...

 

There was no lack of concern for you, just the opposite I was trying to help, (maybe I don't know the same meaning of the word cavalier)  apparently you don't want help and that was my mistake. I apologize for trying to help you it will not happen again.

[TravelerEastWest]

22 hours ago, oldcpu said:

 

That was NOT  a typing mistake.  That was the selection of the WRONG description and it had me wondering if you knew the difference. ...

 

 

I am not asking you if I made a typing mistake in a  hurry - i am telling you the fact that I made a mistake maybe you are new to Thailand or not a native speaker of English (use of "thou" tells me this most likely..) or you are much smarter than those who I talk to about visas here as visa renewal and reports etc are used interchangeably by most people. They are probably not technically correct but they are what people use.

 

I would strongly advise you to be  careful about assuming you know what people said or intended. I think this forum has rules about making personal attacks such as yours. You may want to considering being polite and trusting what people say...

 

Good luck with your questions I will ignore you going forward and I hope you have the courtesy to do the same for me...

 

Again all the best ti you.

 

 

 

22 hours ago, oldcpu said:

 

 

 

 

[Misty]

20 hours ago, Cocon said:

Hi Misty,

 

No minimum salary amount is required, I have LTR WP and I work now for my old company as a consultant for 1-2 days a week, I asked them before and they said I could choose the salary by myself and there is no minimum.

Thanks Cocon, it's good to know.  In the near term we're planning to hire a new employee. Longer term I could see a similar situation as you describe, working part-time.

[oldcpu]

Just over a week ago, I left Phuket for Singapore.  The immigration line (for Phuket departures) was massive. Phuket has a very large dedicated immigration area - which was totally packed with foreigners.  Outside of that dedicated immigration area, in the checkin/baggage deposit area, there was also a massive line up, just to get into the dedicated immigration line.  I dare say the line could have been 45 minutes to an hour.

 

My wife and I were flying Scoot airlines to Singapore. After we checked in our luggage (via the webcheckin line), the representative at the Scoot counter, seeing my LTR visa, directed me to go to a quicker immigration entry on the 'left' of where the foreigners were all lined up.

 

I couldn't see what line he was referring to, but I went with my Thai wife into the immigration Thai citizen entrance (which had ZERO people in line) which brought us to the main very large dedicated immigration area.  Most of that area was packed, shoulder to shoulder with foreigners except for two empty areas.  One empty area being the Thai citizen immigration counters and the other empty area a priority immigration line counter.  I went through that priority counter (only 1 person in front of me). 

 

Total time for me to enter/clear immigration had to be less than 5-minutes (most of which was walking at a fast pace).  I am VERY happy not to have been forced to be in that very long foreigner line.

 

The LTR visa does have its perks at times.

[John207]

New video made by Turner and Kulikovska where towards the end it's mentioned that the LTR visa holders are tax exempt in Thailand and other things...

[Pib]

5 hours ago, John207 said:

New video made by Turner and Kulikovska where towards the end it's mentioned that the LTR visa holders are tax exempt in Thailand and other things...

Thanks. 

 

And for others listening in it's at the 50 min 28 sec point in the video where it says income is tax exempt for LTR visa holders.

[Mike Lister]

4 hours ago, Pib said:

Thanks. 

 

And for others listening in it's at the 50 min 28 sec point in the video where it says income is tax exempt for LTR visa holders.

That has been known for many months, see Para 7 from the Simple Guide below:

 

7) Lastly, there are certain types of visa that fall outside of the RD tax code. The LTR visa for example is one of them, it  received its tax exempt status by royal decree hence visa holders will not to be assessed for Thai tax, in accordance with the rules issued along with that visa and they are specifically excluded from this explanation.

 

 

 

[Pib]

9 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

That has been known for many months, see Para 7 from the Simple Guide below:

 

7) Lastly, there are certain types of visa that fall outside of the RD tax code. The LTR visa for example is one of them, it  received its tax exempt status by royal decree hence visa holders will not to be assessed for Thai tax, in accordance with the rules issued along with that visa and they are specifically excluded from this explanation.

 

 

Yes...understand.   But it always good to see other tax specialists reconfirming the LTR visa enjoys tax exempt status.  Cheers. 

[John207]

On 3/25/2024 at 8:25 PM, Pib said:

 

Yes...understand.   But it always good to see other tax specialists reconfirming the LTR visa enjoys tax exempt status.  Cheers. 

I couldn't agree more! That of course is not taking anything away from the outstanding work that Mike Lister has done on the subject in other threads.

[stat]

On 3/25/2024 at 2:14 PM, Mike Lister said:

That has been known for many months, see Para 7 from the Simple Guide below:

 

7) Lastly, there are certain types of visa that fall outside of the RD tax code. The LTR visa for example is one of them, it  received its tax exempt status by royal decree hence visa holders will not to be assessed for Thai tax, in accordance with the rules issued along with that visa and they are specifically excluded from this explanation.

 

 

 

Feel free to trust a document where the headline states "income from employment only"  and the author of the document is not able or willing to fix this mistake for month 🙂
🙂

[Mike Lister]

39 minutes ago, stat said:

Feel free to trust a document where the headline states "income from employment only"  and the author of the document is not able or willing to fix this mistake for month 🙂
🙂

As you well know, because this has been discussed previously (see the link below) the header shown in the link  above is not from the simple tax guide document but from an otherwise unknown source, we believe from one of the many reference links elsewhere in the document. 

 

 

[White Rabbit]

On 2/12/2024 at 9:11 AM, jayboy said:

The LTR visa is looking like a smart decision by those who qualify - particularly from a tax perspective.

 

I would be interested to know how many people have been able to avail themselves (ie actually succeeded in obtaining) the "wealthy pensioner" category which requires assured income of at least US$ 80,000 p.a. From the BOI perspective all the other LTR categories make sound sense in terms of fulfilling the strategy of attracting expats who can add value.But the 'wealthy pensioner" category doesn't seem to me to make much sense or even belong in the programme at all given the comparatively low financial bar * to entry.I think those who have qualified in this category should congratulate themselves.My hunch is that prospective new entrants in the future might well find this route blocked.

 

* Please don't respond by claiming $ 80,000 is already a very high sum.It's not for a "wealthy pensioner" but debate on this subject - at least on this forum - is pointless.

Whether that is a high or low threshold is of course debatable as all else ;-). However, to obtain passive income of 80k USD you'd probably need about 3 million USD of invested assets  at around 3% mean dividend/interest so still a considerable sum of money. Of course it all is relative - and I assume you are much much wealthier than that as you are bringing this up - but from the Thai government point of view this certainly makes sense: those retirees spend their money in Thailand, pay sales taxes etc. No real downside as we oldies usually behave, don't drive like madmen... So I believe this scheme will remain in place and benefit Thais and foreigners alike hopefully for many more years to come. 

[jayboy]

1 hour ago, White Rabbit said:

I assume you are much much wealthier than that as you are bringing this up

 

Sadly not

[Ben Zioner]

1 hour ago, jayboy said:

 

Sadly not

But I can reassure you, I have the so called LTR/WP, and I don't see myself as wealthy. Maybe we should change LTR/WP to LTR/WOP (Well Off Pensioner). 

[stat]

2 hours ago, White Rabbit said:

Whether that is a high or low threshold is of course debatable as all else ;-). However, to obtain passive income of 80k USD you'd probably need about 3 million USD of invested assets  at around 3% mean dividend/interest so still a considerable sum of money. Of course it all is relative - and I assume you are much much wealthier than that as you are bringing this up - but from the Thai government point of view this certainly makes sense: those retirees spend their money in Thailand, pay sales taxes etc. No real downside as we oldies usually behave, don't drive like madmen... So I believe this scheme will remain in place and benefit Thais and foreigners alike hopefully for many more years to come. 

IMHO the 80K can also be the payment of a life insurance or maybe the profits from shares you sell in 2 years. I discussed this with BOI and they came back with we will have to see, so I assume profits from selling shares will be OK. They would like to see the profits in an official document which can be a big problem as some countries tax profits at source i.e. the bank or if you are a thai tax resident with OA visa they will not show in any official tax declaration as only a fool would transfer 2 times 80K into Thailand in order to be taxed 🙂

 

My understanding was that bank statements could also be accepted. A lot seems to be at the discretion of the BOI. Beats me why they not simply demand 1 M USD in the bank or 3 M or whatever. Maybe BOI is afraid of the same shenangians like the 800K baht bank statements.

[stat]

11 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

But I can reassure you, I have the so called LTR/WP, and I don't see myself as wealthy.

Not seing themself wealthy, while being wealthy is the privilege of the wealthy 😉

 

https://franklycurious.com/wp/2015/03/16/survivorship-bias-or-why-the-rich-feel-poor/

[DavidH51]

1 hour ago, stat said:

IMHO the 80K can also be the payment of a life insurance or maybe the profits from shares you sell in 2 years. I discussed this with BOI and they came back with we will have to see, so I assume profits from selling shares will be OK. They would like to see the profits in an official document which can be a big problem as some countries tax profits at source i.e. the bank or if you are a thai tax resident with OA visa they will not show in any official tax declaration as only a fool would transfer 2 times 80K into Thailand in order to be taxed 🙂

I am a USA citizen - I have been told by Americans who have LTR Wealthy Pensioner Visa holders that funds withdrawn from an IRA or 401K count as part of the USD$80k

Just send them the correct tax forms from the bank or brokerage that show how much you withdrew. Can also count Social Security.

[stat]

11 minutes ago, DavidH51 said:

I am a USA citizen - I have been told by Americans who have LTR Wealthy Pensioner Visa holders that funds withdrawn from an IRA or 401K count as part of the USD$80k

Just send them the correct tax forms from the bank or brokerage that show how much you withdrew. Can also count Social Security.

Thanks! I just have a normal brokerage account and no IRA or 401K but if those work, my transferal to another account should maybe count, that would be very easy for me.

[noobexpat]

On 3/25/2024 at 4:04 PM, Pib said:

Thanks. 

 

And for others listening in it's at the 50 min 28 sec point in the video where it says income is tax exempt for LTR visa holders.

 

This is because its deemed as taxable and taxed in another country, right?

 

But the respective DTA may have come to the same result anyway, had that been applied??

 

 

[mudcat]

I describe this 'double exemption' as belt and suspenders.  I have been retired for many years and have two principal sources of income both exempt under the U.S. Thailand tax convention, my U.S. Social Security (Section 20.2) direct deposited here into my Bangkok Bank account for living expenses and my U.S. government entity pension (Section 21.2) which is deposited into my U.S. checking account for credit card, atm, or investments.  Anything I remit to Thailand is exempt based on my LTR-WP visa.  Anything I transfer to my wife in the U.S. or Thailand is covered by exemptions under the Thai Revenue Code Section 42 paragraph 10 (inheritance) or paragraph 27 (maintenance and support) 

[Pib]

10 hours ago, noobexpat said:

 

This is because its deemed as taxable and taxed in another country, right?

 

But the respective DTA may have come to the same result anyway, had that been applied??

 

 

No....there is a LTR-specific royal decree and a revenue dept directive issued under the revenue/tax code that exempts foreign sourced income like a person's foreign earned wages, pensions, interest, cap gains, etc., for those issued an LTR visa.  See the Royal Decree 743 and Revenue Dept Notification 427 available at BOI LTR website

https://ltr.boi.go.th/documents/Notification of Income Tax No.427 (EN).pdf

https://ltr.boi.go.th/documents/Royal Decree issued under the Revenue Code No.743 (EN).pdf

 

A DTA only exempts certain types of income and of course a there needs to be a DTA between Thailand and whatever country the person is a citizen of.   Thailand does not have DTA with all countries.

 

 

 

 

[noobexpat]

21 minutes ago, Pib said:

No....there is a LTR-specific royal decree and a revenue dept directive issued under the revenue/tax code that exempts foreign sourced income like a person's foreign earned wages, pensions, interest, cap gains, etc., for those issued an LTR visa.  See the Royal Decree 743 and Revenue Dept Notification 427 available at BOI LTR website

https://ltr.boi.go.th/documents/Notification of Income Tax No.427 (EN).pdf

https://ltr.boi.go.th/documents/Royal Decree issued under the Revenue Code No.743 (EN).pdf

 

A DTA only exempts certain types of income and of course a there needs to be a DTA between Thailand and whatever country the person is a citizen of.   Thailand does not have DTA with all countries.

 

Thanks, but i still don't understand the obvious benefit. I see 17% tax stated.

 

So i work for a foreign company, i'm resident in thailand and i remit all that foreign earned salary to thailand. I pay a reduced tax of 17% (instead of the normal thai tax rates that would apply) ....is that right?

 

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, noobexpat said:

 

Thanks, but i still don't understand the obvious benefit. I see 17% tax stated.

 

So i work for a foreign company, i'm resident in thailand and i remit all that foreign earned salary to thailand. I pay a reduced tax of 17% (instead of the normal thai tax rates that would apply) ....is that right?

 

Perhaps I missed something but....

 

If you work for a company in Thailand or earn income from a company here, you can't reside here on a LTR visa, you would require a work permit. I am pretty certain that a LTR visa cannot replace a work permit or exclude income that arises from working here, it only negates the tax on overseas income that is remitted here.

[noobexpat]

13 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Perhaps I missed something but....

 

If you work for a company in Thailand or earn income from a company here, you can't reside here on a LTR visa, you would require a work permit. I am pretty certain that a LTR visa cannot replace a work permit or exclude income that arises from working here, it only negates the tax on overseas income that is remitted here.

 

Good point.

I'm curious to know the most obvious situation for who this benefits.

 

[Ben Zioner]

43 minutes ago, Pib said:

A DTA only exempts certain types of income and of course a there needs to be a DTA between Thailand and whatever country the person is a citizen of.   Thailand does not have DTA with all countries.

IMHO this isn't correct. A DTA doesn't exempt anything, it mitigates the risk of paying tax twice on your income Dollar. So I'd be careful, even with US social security, as many sax it is non taxable, it leads me to think that many will have only a tax credit of 0 to show on their return. Don't forget all income remitted must be declared, so another approach would be not to remit and prove it.

[Ben Zioner]

19 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Perhaps I missed something but....

 

If you work for a company in Thailand or earn income from a company here, you can't reside here on a LTR visa, you would require a work permit. I am pretty certain that a LTR visa cannot replace a work permit or exclude income that arises from working here, it only negates the tax on overseas income that is remitted here.

You can definitely stay on LTR, even LTR/WP, and get a work permit. But you'd have to pay income tax on local income.

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, Ben Zioner said:

IMHO this isn't correct. A DTA doesn't exempt anything, it mitigates the risk of paying tax twice on your income Dollar. So I'd be careful, even with US social security, as many sax it is non taxable, it leads me to think that many will have only a tax credit of 0 to show on their return. Don't forget all income remitted must be declared, so another approach would be not to remit and prove it.

The DTA on US SSc is very specific, it may only be taxed by the US.

 

And currently there is no facility to declare exempt income such as US SSc, I try to declare mine every year and it gets ignored.

[Ben Zioner]

28 minutes ago, noobexpat said:

 

Thanks, but i still don't understand the obvious benefit. I see 17% tax stated.

 

So i work for a foreign company, i'm resident in thailand and i remit all that foreign earned salary to thailand. I pay a reduced tax of 17% (instead of the normal thai tax rates that would apply) ....is that right?

 

This is only for one LTR subtype, something like "highly skilled professionals".

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, Ben Zioner said:

You can definitely stay on LTR, even LTR/WP, and get a work permit. But you'd have to pay income tax on local income.

Good to know, thanks. So the LTR presumably only impacts imported income and not income earned in country under the WP?

[Pib]

34 minutes ago, noobexpat said:

 

Thanks, but i still don't understand the obvious benefit. I see 17% tax stated.

 

So i work for a foreign company, i'm resident in thailand and i remit all that foreign earned salary to thailand. I pay a reduced tax of 17% (instead of the normal thai tax rates that would apply) ....is that right?

 

Take a reread of the earlier provided references.  That 17% tax rate only applies to the LTR High Skilled Professional category which is for those working for a company with a tax presence "in" Thailand....that 17% tax rate applies to the person's "Thailand-sourced" income.  Their foreign-sourced income is still tax exempt.   And they still have to have an LTR Work Permit issued which is all but guaranteed to be approved after the basic LTR visa is approved.  The LTR Work Permit costs Bt3,000/year.  .

 

All the other LTR visa categories, like Pensioner, Global Citizen, Work From Thailand, etc., are exempt for their foreign-sourced income.  But they too are authorized an LTR Work Permit if desired/applied for in case the also want to work for a company that has a tax basis in Thailand; however,  the person's Thailand tax rate will be the standard rate(s) which can go up to around 35% vs the reduced 17% for the LTR HSP category.