LTR Visa is Now available for Long Term Residency

[Misty]

11 hours ago, Pib said:

No annual renewals, unlimited multi exit/reentry, no 90 day address reporting, tax exemption,  work permit if wanted even on a LTR Pensioner visa, etc.  If you have the pension/income then why not apply for a LTR....and the LTR Bt50K fee works out to Bt5K/year over the 10 year visa.  A 1 year Non-O with multi-entry permit would cost Bt1.9K+Bt3.8K=Bt5.7K/year.   

 

Other than being able to apply for a work permit for some 1 year visas, got any of above mentioned LTR benefits with a 1 year visa?   Yes, yes, for many a 1 year renewal of a Non-O goes smoothly but for many it don't which keeps the AseanNow forums constantly abuzz....and the "every year" worry/concern of the renewal...what will possibly change for the upcoming renewal that arrives all too soon year after year.

 

Having had to annually extend a NonB/work permit every year for decades, with the mounds of annual paperwork and ever growing requirements, the LTR visa + digital work permit is a huge improvement.  To start with, the LTR unit is professional, courteous and even friendly. Such a breath of fresh air!  Given the amount of Thai income tax I've paid over the decades, the LTR unit's attitude is so welcome and in stark contrast to the attitude of the offices overseeing NonB visa/work permit extensions.  Not to mention there's no annual renewals with the mountains of required paperwork and wasted time, no 90 day reporting, no requirement for re-entry permit, no Thai employee requirement, no minimum salary, no need to be in country every year (like with PR), no harassment of annual syphilis blood tests. There are some nice tax benefits.  And using the fast track at the airport is further icing on the cake.  At the very least, I can only guess @Gottfrid has never had a NonB / work permit or at least not recently, and has no idea what a corrupted mess that process has become.

[Ben Zioner]

20 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

Going to be hard to get the Health Insurance companies to write a document stating you've been insured for the past 5 years. Might need to keep the actual 5 years of policies to show proof. The pension income should not be a problem for most.

That's a funny twist. My standard insurance certificate doesn't show an expiry date, as there isn't one, but shows that I have been a member of the plan since 1991.

[Yumthai]

10 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

A BOI LTR visa was a well thought out plan as it included many facets which work well for those of us who qualify. The tax Exemption was just icing on the cake for us.

The icing on the cake has, since last September new order announcement, become a real discriminative benefit for those who qualify.

Unfair rules do not incline people to follow it, unenforced laws neither (fortunately).

 

[Alotoftravel]

22 hours ago, JimGant said:

Never dipping below 100k in a bank account used for health self-insuring --  be interesting to 100% prove. Probably asking only for end-of-year statements would be the solution.

I did my ltr with a health plan insurance .
Anyone if one can change from insurance coverage to the self insure 100 k during the 5 years?

Does the 100K cash have to be one account account or can be spread to a few accounts?

[JackGats]

3 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

That's a funny twist. My standard insurance certificate doesn't show an expiry date, as there isn't one, but shows that I have been a member of the plan since 1991.

Same on my Cigna standard certificate. I asked them to state in an ad hoc certificate I was insured for life ("until I die"), and they did.

[Alotoftravel]

33 minutes ago, Alotoftravel said:

Anyone if one can change from insurance coverage to the self insure 100 k during the 5 years?

Does the 100K cash have to be one account account or can be spread to a few accounts?

I talked to a BOI  rep. He told me that changing to self insure is not a problem. I need to show prior one year account statement of 100k prior to renewal ( 2 months before LTR expire )He also said it can come from multiple accounts and can even be in money market fund ( of course cash equivalent ) No need to liquidate to cash . 

[HerewardtheWake]

Question about Going to the LTR visa people at Chimichurri Plaza, Bangkok:

 

I want to take the US$100,000 deposit option for maintaining my LTR visa.

 

I have the relevant account statements for the last 12 months. Can I just drop by at the Chimichurri building? Or do I need to get an appointment? Contacting them on the phone has been a futile effort and email messages get a canned irrelevant response.

[Pib]

17 minutes ago, HerewardtheWake said:

Question about Going to the LTR visa people at Chimichurri Plaza, Bangkok:

 

I want to take the US$100,000 deposit option for maintaining my LTR visa.

 

I have the relevant account statements for the last 12 months. Can I just drop by at the Chimichurri building? Or do I need to get an appointment? Contacting them on the phone has been a futile effort and email messages get a canned irrelevant response.

Yes...you can just drop by to ask questions.  I guess you want to "show and confirm" your bank account statements will be acceptable to prove self-insure coverage.  You will first have to interface with the LTR Customer Info reps right after entering BOI LTR venue (these reps are typically contractors vs govt employees)....explain to them you need to confirm the bank statement provide adequate proof and would like to get that confirmation from a BOI rep that actually reviews LTR applications.   

 

Hopefully, the BOI Customer Info rep will ask a more senior BOI govt employee to come talk to you on the subject and give you an answer....that's the way it has worked for me a couple times.  Of course there is always the chance the day you just show-up/pop-in there is not something preventing the availability of a BOI rep to talk to you (like some meeting they are in, etc).  

 

It's my understanding from questions to BOI on this subject as long as the bank acct is a savings/checking or even a CD acct, PROVIDES A MONTHLY STATEMENT, AND THE FUNDS ARE IMMEIDIATELY ACCESSABLE TO PAY MEDICAL BILLS then the acct satisfies the self-insure requirement.  BOI needs to ensure the type of acct allows immediate access to the funds and is not some acct like a stock market acct that could quickly go from having a $100K or more balance to a low balance due to stock market crashes...or the funds are locked in the bank acct for a set period I.e., 6, 12 months, etc) which does not allow quick accessing of the funds. 

 

 

[Ben Zioner]

8 hours ago, JackGats said:

Same on my Cigna standard certificate. I asked them to state in an ad hoc certificate I was insured for life ("until I die"), and they did.

I am with Cigna (UN) too. Who did you deal with to get that ad hoc certificate, your Cigna contact of your HRD?

[JackGats]

2 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

I am with Cigna (UN) too. Who did you deal with to get that ad hoc certificate, your Cigna contact of your HRD?

My plan is managed by Cigna on behalf of my ex-employer. I sent my query to the same Cigna people who deal with any problems arising out of health-care refunds.

 

I told them what the Thais wanted to read on the certificate, ie "insured for life" and "insured for amount greater than". I explained getting this 10-year visa would be invaluable to me as I would no longer have to renew my visa every year.

[ThailandRyan]

12 hours ago, Yumthai said:

The icing on the cake has, since last September new order announcement, become a real discriminative benefit for those who qualify.

Unfair rules do not incline people to follow it, unenforced laws neither (fortunately).

 

Not discriminatory in any way shape or form. If you believe it's discriminatory then you need to look at other visas which have requirements others do not. Case in point is the OA visa or extension of stay which requires a retiree to maintain health Insurance with a company from inside thailand, on a HI list, and show this proof annually, whereas a person on an O visa or extension of stay does not have to show this requirement.  Many different classes of Visas and many different requirements such as showing 400k in the bank vs. 800k in the bank.

 

My view with people who yell discrimination is that they have an axe to grind because they don't qualify to obtain said visa.

 

The tax Exemption was a selling point for me as well as all the other add on, such as only reporting once a year, multi re-entry permit and not having to renew for 5 years to show I still qualified.

[Yumthai]

9 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

Not discriminatory in any way shape or form. If you believe it's discriminatory then you need to look at other visas which have requirements others do not. Case in point is the OA visa or extension of stay which requires a retiree to maintain health Insurance with a company from inside thailand, on a HI list, and show this proof annually, whereas a person on an O visa or extension of stay does not have to show this requirement.  Many different classes of Visas and many different requirements such as showing 400k in the bank vs. 800k in the bank.

 

My view with people who yell discrimination is that they have an axe to grind because they don't qualify to obtain said visa.

 

The tax Exemption was a selling point for me as well as all the other add on, such as only reporting once a year, multi re-entry permit and not having to renew for 5 years to show I still qualified.

 

I mean discriminatory in term of tax.

You have to show enough money to qualify and pay no tax. To me, it's a huge benefit and significantly unfair.

 

But good for anyone who qualifies and wants to live legally tax-free in Thailand. The LTR visa route is the go-to as all perks exceed all the other kind of visa at less average cost.

 

[JackGats]

2 hours ago, Yumthai said:

 

I mean discriminatory in term of tax.

You have to show enough money to qualify and pay no tax. To me, it's a huge benefit and significantly unfair.

...

 

Discriminatory tax laws are legion. Take Belgium with:

- a 50-60% income tax on wages and pensions 

- no wealth tax

- 1% VAT only on diamond transactions (Jewish tax-haven in Antwerp)

 

It's difficult to imagine a more <deleted>-up tax system than that but still there are quite a few like it in the first world.

 

The peculiarity with the LTR in TH is that the discrimination  is linked to a visa. But even that is not so rare. Until recently Portugal had a 10% tax on foreigner's pensions while taxing their own national pensions at over 30%. Note that the LTR would be self-defeating if it didn't include a tax clause as the aim was to attract big spenders.

[Yumthai]

28 minutes ago, JackGats said:

Note that the LTR would be self-defeating if it didn't include a tax clause as the aim was to attract big spenders.

Not sure about that. Even without the tax exemption, the other perks alone exceed the other visas requirements.

 

Furthermore, tax issue should not be something to consider (and remittances are manageable anyway) for big spenders willing to settle in Thailand, or is it?

 

[Ben Zioner]

2 hours ago, Yumthai said:

Furthermore, tax issue should not be something to consider (and remittances are manageable anyway) for big spenders willing to settle in Thailand, or is it?

Totally unintelligible... Or are you saying that LTR holders should volunteer to pay tax? Which would be even more stupid.

[CharlesHolzhauer]

20 hours ago, Pib said:

FUNDS ARE IMMEDIATELY ACCESSABLE TO PAY MEDICAL BILLS then the acct satisfies the self-insure requirement.

Would BOI consider an American Express Gold Charge Card? I've held one since 1980 with an excellent payment history, always paying charges before the due date. I've been using the card to pay for all my private hospital bills, including comprehensive annual check-ups, medications, and bi-yearly follow-ups for the past 23 years which also includes a recent emergency operation for the removal of a burst appendix.

[Yumthai]

31 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

Totally unintelligible... Or are you saying that LTR holders should volunteer to pay tax? Which would be even more stupid.

No, I meant the more money you have the less an issue tax should be, as you can afford to pay it without impacting much your lifestyle or the place you wanna live. Whereas, if your income/wealth is limited tax impact cannot be neglected.

 

[Ben Zioner]

9 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

No, I meant the more money you have the less an issue tax should be, as you can afford to pay it without impacting much your lifestyle or the place you wanna live. Whereas, if your income/wealth is limited tax impact cannot be neglected.

 

So you don't understand income tax at all.

 

Most countries do the same:

 

a) Buy the vote of the masses, hence [near] 0 tax up to half a million a year, that where many Farang retirees are BTW,

b) Be subservient to the power of money, by implement all sorts of tax evasion schemes for the rich,

c) Hit the middle classes as hard as you can, as they are not too many voters and neither do they have the power of big money.

 

Doubt there are many rich amongst the LTR holders, the are mostly the middle class. I's be paying close to one quarter of my income if I had to pay here.

 

I have always hated the progressive income tax systems, because it hurt me when I was submitted to it, but also just for what it is: an incentive for mediocrity and laziness. Ronald Reagan is one of the few rulers who could see this and do something about it. Even though he never managed to get a true flat IT implemented.

[Pib]

45 minutes ago, CharlesHolzhauer said:

Would BOI consider an American Express Gold Charge Card? I've held one since 1980 with an excellent payment history, always paying charges before the due date. I've been using the card to pay for all my private hospital bills, including comprehensive annual check-ups, medications, and bi-yearly follow-ups for the past 23 years which also includes a recent emergency operation for the removal of a burst appendix.

Nope...credit cards not accepted as a substitute for cash in the bank for self insuring. 

 

During the first six months or so of the LTR program (until early 2023) BOI was accepting brokerage/retirement type accts based on stock value as an acceptable method to self insure but apparently they stopped accepting that method to self insure.

[CharlesHolzhauer]

5 minutes ago, Pib said:

Nope...credit cards not accepted

I specifically stated an American Express Gold Charge Card, which is not a credit card! Readily available cash is necessary to utilize a card like the AMEX CHARGE gold card.

[Yumthai]

44 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

So you don't understand income tax at all.

 

Most countries do the same:

 

a) Buy the vote of the masses, hence [near] 0 tax up to half a million a year, that where many Farang retirees are BTW,

b) Be subservient to the power of money, by implement all sorts of tax evasion schemes for the rich,

c) Hit the middle classes as hard as you can, as they are not too many voters and neither do they have the power of big money.

 

Doubt there are many rich amongst the LTR holders, the are mostly the middle class. I's be paying close to one quarter of my income if I had to pay here.

 

I have always hated the progressive income tax systems, because it hurt me when I was submitted to it, but also just for what it is: an incentive for mediocrity and laziness. Ronald Reagan is one of the few rulers who could see this and do something about it. Even though he never managed to get a true flat IT implemented.

 

I understand very well what countries are doing taxing people. My point is that this LTR visa in unfair tax-wise but good for those who can afford it.

In order to produce US$ 80K a year steady passive income you need at least US$ 7 figures invested, I consider it being well-off not rich.

 

[Ben Zioner]

Just now, Yumthai said:

 

I understand very well what countries are doing taxing people. My point is that this LTR visa in unfair tax-wise but good for those who can afford it.

In order to produce US$ 80K a year steady passive income you need at least US$ 7 figures invested, I consider it well-off not rich.

 

Not at all, in Europe that's a normal pension for people who had middle management careers. My guess would be that you are from the US or possible UK.

[Pib]

16 minutes ago, CharlesHolzhauer said:

I specifically stated an American Express Gold Charge Card, which is not a credit card! Readily available cash is necessary to utilize a card like the AMEX CHARGE gold card.

Understand....but it still relies on you being able to pay the monthly card bill.  If you can't pay the monthly charge I expect AmEx would cancel/freeze the card.  Plus, card companies can cancel/freeze cards on a whim preventing its use but freezing a bank acct with $100K is not likely to happen.  Bottomline it still relies on you having the "cash" to pay the card bill.

 

Contact BOI and ask....and I recommend you point out the difference between an AmEx Credit and Charge Card card which below AmEx webpage should do.

https://www.americanexpress.com/in/credit-know-how/how-do-credit-cards-work/#:~:text=A Charge Card works like,full by the due date.

 

 

 

 

[White Rabbit]

On 3/28/2024 at 4:30 AM, Ben Zioner said:

You can definitely stay on LTR, even LTR/WP, and get a work permit. But you'd have to pay income tax on local income.

Precisely - there are 4 different classes of LTR visas - and all allow to quite easily apply for a work permit. One of subclasses is meant for ppl working in Thailand - they then get a preferential and in may eyes reasonable flat tax rate of 17%. Income generated in Thailand is always subject to taxation. Income generated abroad - world income - is tax free for holders of LTR visas. This is certainly not unfair. Excessive taxation is unfair. There are many such schemes in the world, UK non-dot status is just one example; they greatly benefit the countries that introduce them but of course there's always the envious ones disguising their envy as 'looking for justice or fairness' or whatever. Life is neither. But individuals can act fairly. Governments can be clever at best and act in the best interest of their home country. Thailand is quite good at that. If you act fairly and respectfully Thais and most government agencies will mostly recognise such and treat you accordingly. 

[stat]

21 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

Not discriminatory in any way shape or form. If you believe it's discriminatory then you need to look at other visas which have requirements others do not. Case in point is the OA visa or extension of stay which requires a retiree to maintain health Insurance with a company from inside thailand, on a HI list, and show this proof annually, whereas a person on an O visa or extension of stay does not have to show this requirement.  Many different classes of Visas and many different requirements such as showing 400k in the bank vs. 800k in the bank.

 

My view with people who yell discrimination is that they have an axe to grind because they don't qualify to obtain said visa.

 

The tax Exemption was a selling point for me as well as all the other add on, such as only reporting once a year, multi re-entry permit and not having to renew for 5 years to show I still qualified.

Quick addition: For the OA Visa the health insurance can be from a company outside of Thailand. In my case that insurance cost only 69€ or 62 USD per month and had unlimted coverage. The prices and max coverage of the Thai insurance companies are ludicrous.

[SingAPorn]

The plan seems to work, .Give those wealthy global pensioneers a ltr and once they are settled, put a hefty tax on their foreign pensions.

[SingAPorn]

3 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

Not at all, in Europe that's a normal pension for people who had middle management careers. My guess would be that you are from the US or possible UK.

Very true and amongst the most wealthy are the retirees from Switzerland, like them or not !!

[stat]

4 hours ago, Yumthai said:

No, I meant the more money you have the less an issue tax should be, as you can afford to pay it without impacting much your lifestyle or the place you wanna live. Whereas, if your income/wealth is limited tax impact cannot be neglected.

 

Most people get rich by not spending their money or getting it taxed away. Who cares what one can afford I simply do not want to spend unnecessary amounts of money. Are you aware that some people pay a million USD in tax each year? Are you telling those people because they have 20M USD they can afford to pay 1 M USD p.a. and stop thinking about it?

[stat]

4 hours ago, Pib said:

Nope...credit cards not accepted as a substitute for cash in the bank for self insuring. 

 

During the first six months or so of the LTR program (until early 2023) BOI was accepting brokerage/retirement type accts based on stock value as an acceptable method to self insure but apparently they stopped accepting that method to self insure.

Is ist still Ok to show a brokerage account (Interactive Brokers) that shows cash over 100K USD for 12 month ? Much obliged!

[stat]

3 hours ago, Yumthai said:

 

I understand very well what countries are doing taxing people. My point is that this LTR visa in unfair tax-wise but good for those who can afford it.

In order to produce US$ 80K a year steady passive income you need at least US$ 7 figures invested, I consider it being well-off not rich.

 

IMHO capital gains are also considered passive income which is easily doable in 2 consecutive years (profits from the last 20 years) with a bit of planing and 1M USD in a stock portfolio.