LTR Visa is Now available for Long Term Residency

[Mike Lister]

11 minutes ago, stat said:

Quick addition: For the OA Visa the health insurance can be from a company outside of Thailand. In my case that insurance cost only 69€ or 62 USD per month and had unlimted coverage. The prices and max coverage of the Thai insurance companies are ludicrous.

Perhaps this varies by nationality because the guidance below from the Royal Thai Consulate in Vancouver says this about the insurance, "A copy of the health insurance policy may only be accepted, provided that the applicant purchases the health insurance from participating Thai insurance companies".

 

https://www.thaiconsulatevancouver.ca/th/retirement-visa/

[Middle Aged Grouch]

Can one have a LTR retiree visa and use it only for a few months each year and thus not be subject to the new tax rules ?

 

Or does the fact plainly to have a LTR pensionner visa mean that the tax lads will be after you even if you don't stay more then the 180 days ?

 

Is it 180 days for the fiscal year that is from jan to december or how is it counted ?

 

Thank you.

[Lost Nomad]

I've completed my 2023 taxes and am now ready to submit my LTR Pensioner application.    I thought I could use my 1040 form since Pension + Dividends > 80K. I'm unsure on how to make this the easiest for BOI to approve since Box 1A wants current year.  I can show 1/1-3/31 statement for pension and pull the 1Q24 dividend amount from online account.  I'm not sure if my 1Q24 income is $20K since the dividends seem to be weighted to pay more in December. Recommendations?

 

2nd question:  Is it better to consolidate all forms/passport photo/etc into one document when uploading to the BOI?  I think I've read that once uploaded there is no means to delete documents from my BOI account.  True?

 

[Pib]

14 minutes ago, stat said:

Is ist still Ok to show a brokerage account (Interactive Brokers) that shows cash over 100K USD for 12 month ? Much obliged!

BOI no longer accepts that type of acct to self-insure.

[Mike Lister]

29 minutes ago, Middle Aged Grouch said:

Can one have a LTR retiree visa and use it only for a few months each year and thus not be subject to the new tax rules ?

 

Or does the fact plainly to have a LTR pensionner visa mean that the tax lads will be after you even if you don't stay more then the 180 days ?

 

Is it 180 days for the fiscal year that is from jan to december or how is it counted ?

 

Thank you.

Yes, if you do not stay for more than 180 days you would not be tax resident, regardless of which visa you have.

 

Yes again, the tax year is the calendar year.

[Pib]

4 minutes ago, Lost Nomad said:

I've completed my 2023 taxes and am now ready to submit my LTR Pensioner application.    I thought I could use my 1040 form since Pension + Dividends > 80K. I'm unsure on how to make this the easiest for BOI to approve since Box 1A wants current year.  I can show 1/1-3/31 statement for pension and pull the 1Q24 dividend amount from online account.  I'm not sure if my 1Q24 income is $20K since the dividends seem to be weighted to pay more in December. Recommendations?

 

2nd question:  Is it better to consolidate all forms/passport photo/etc into one document when uploading to the BOI?  I think I've read that once uploaded there is no means to delete documents from my BOI account.  True?

 

 

Is above a snapshot of the online form within your online BOI LTR account or just the example paper-based form you have photoshopped?  You can't submitted a paper-based application; you have to use the online application from within your BOI LTR acct.

 

Unless something has changed (and maybe it has) when filling out the online pensioner application form "within your BOI LTR online acct" for area (1) you enter the beginning and ending dates of the 12 month period your are reporting income on.....like 1 Apr 2023 thru 31 Mar 2024 assuming you were going to submit the application in early Apr 2024.  Then there is a block to enter that income amount......the 31 Mar 2024 is within the current year and then there is a block to enter that total pension amount.  There is no Box 1A like  you have probably photoshopped in above.....just blocks for the MM-YYYY to MM-YYYY and then a block of the total pension income.

 

Then there is an area (2) to enter other sources of income.....then the a block for the total of areas 1 +2.  

 

Unless something has changed from late 2022 when I applied the online form looks a little different than the example paper-based form anyone can download.

 

DO NOT consolidate all the various forms/docs into one BIG document "because" the online application has specific areas for specific forms. Income area for income docs, passport area for passport, health coverage area, etc.   You can consolidate all your income docs into one big income doc to be uploaded to the income area, but don't include anything unrelated like your passport, health coverage docs, etc.     Do mix apples and oranges.   And even when uploading income docs think what makes it easiest for BOI to review...if this means uploading "several" separate docs in one area then go that route.  Like upload your pension docs/certificates in one doc but your tax return(s) as a separate doc.   

 

 

[Pib]

59 minutes ago, Middle Aged Grouch said:

Can one have a LTR retiree visa and use it only for a few months each year and thus not be subject to the new tax rules ?

 

Or does the fact plainly to have a LTR pensionner visa mean that the tax lads will be after you even if you don't stay more then the 180 days ?

 

Is it 180 days for the fiscal year that is from jan to december or how is it counted ?

 

Thank you.

Having a LTR visa does not mean you are automatically classified as a year round resident....no more so than if you have an Non OA, Non O, etc., and only visited Thailand a couple weeks or months each year.   Heck, after getting your LTR visa you don't need to stay in Thailand....you might just visit Thailand occasionally....maybe a few days each year or ever few years, maybe 9 months a year, maybe XYZ. 

 

A LTR visa makes your "foreign" income tax exempt if you do stay in Thailand more than 180 per calendar year; but does not exempt any income "you make in Thailand" in case you plan to get a work permit with your LTR visa and work in Thailand.

 

The Thai tax year is calendar year based 1 Jan to 31 Dec; not some other period like how many governments use a fiscal year of 1 Oct XX thru 30 Sep XX.

[Lost Nomad]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

 

Is above a snapshot of the online form within your online BOI LTR account or just the example paper-based form you have photoshopped?  You can't submitted a paper-based application; you have to use the online application from within your BOI LTR acct.

 

DO NOT consolidate all the various forms/docs into one BIG document "because" the online application has specific areas for specific forms.

 

 

Thanks for the feedback.

 

Yes, that was a photoshop version of the pdf form.  I thought I needed to submit it as part of the online application.  I was hoping to make things as easy as possible for the BOI and I've been told that the BOI reps like the 1040 as supporting documentation.  I'll be applying using my 4/1/23-3/31/24 income so my 1040 numbers won't match.  I want to give them enough info to make the decision without oversharing info they don't need. I'll group all of my income documents into one file, all medical insurance info into another file, etc.

[Pib]

6 minutes ago, Lost Nomad said:

Thanks for the feedback.

 

Yes, that was a photoshop version of the pdf form.  I thought I needed to submit it as part of the online application.  I was hoping to make things as easy as possible for the BOI and I've been told that the BOI reps like the 1040 as supporting documentation.  I'll be applying using my 4/1/23-3/31/24 income so my 1040 numbers won't match.  I want to give them enough info to make the decision without oversharing info they don't need. I'll group all of my income documents into one file, all medical insurance info into another file, etc.

 

The application form is totally online; that paper-based application is really just FYI so people can see what the application looks like without registering for a BOI LTR online acct in order to apply for an LTR.

 

Yes, your 1040 numbers which are 1 Jan-31 Dec amount will not match another timeframe like 1 Apr 2023 to 31 Mar 2024.   Use your most current income numbers and income documents to report your total income and then the 1040s will serve as secondary documentation.  Include a short one page memo to expand any income you think needs clarify like maybe you have some income that is totally non-taxable/non reportable on a 1040 form or associated tax document when can make your income look lower than it actually is.  Just for example anyone who receives a VA pension/benefit none of that money appears anywhere on the tax return and the govt does not provide any tax doc like a 1099 saying your got paid X-amount of VA pension/benefit because by law a VA pension/benefit is non taxable so the govt don't even provide a VA 1099.  

 

 

[Misty]

13 hours ago, Yumthai said:

Not sure about that. Even without the tax exemption, the other perks alone exceed the other visas requirements.

 

Furthermore, tax issue should not be something to consider (and remittances are manageable anyway) for big spenders willing to settle in Thailand, or is it?

 

 

The tax issue is definitely something big spenders (wealthy/rich) expats consider when looking to move to a new country.  If they don't, frankly they are hugely remiss. 

 

Prior to last September's changes to how the tax code would be interpreted, these types of expats liked the fact that Thailand did not tax them on passive income earned outside of Thailand.  And now that Thailand has changed the tax code interpretation, big spenders will certainly consider the LTR visa over other visas that don't address this tax issue.

[Misty]

16 hours ago, Yumthai said:

 

I mean discriminatory in term of tax.

You have to show enough money to qualify and pay no tax. To me, it's a huge benefit and significantly unfair.

 

But good for anyone who qualifies and wants to live legally tax-free in Thailand. The LTR visa route is the go-to as all perks exceed all the other kind of visa at less average cost.

 

 

You may misunderstand the LTR visa's tax benefits.  I currently have the LTR HSP visa but am not "legally tax-free." I will pay a substantial amount of Thai income tax on my salary, albeit at a flat rate of 17%. Previously on a different LTR visa at progressive rates I paid up to the top 35% marginal rate, or effectively a total of c30% including RMF deductions.  

[stat]

5 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

Perhaps this varies by nationality because the guidance below from the Royal Thai Consulate in Vancouver says this about the insurance, "A copy of the health insurance policy may only be accepted, provided that the applicant purchases the health insurance from participating Thai insurance companies".

 

https://www.thaiconsulatevancouver.ca/th/retirement-visa/

Thanks! Interesting, I had to provide a form from the insurance company stating "compliant to thai cabinet decission from xxx" and that worked for Germany.

[stat]

5 hours ago, SingAPorn said:

The plan seems to work, .Give those wealthy global pensioneers a ltr and once they are settled, put a hefty tax on their foreign pensions.

So far TH has been very generous regarding taxation and not even taxing pensions from Germany despite the fact that the DBA gave them the right to taxation.

[MPoll]

16 hours ago, Yumthai said:

 

I understand very well what countries are doing taxing people. My point is that this LTR visa in unfair tax-wise but good for those who can afford it.

In order to produce US$ 80K a year steady passive income you need at least US$ 7 figures invested, I consider it being well-off not rich.

 

I am an American and get my $80,000/year passive income from my work pension and then there is Social Security on top of that. If you reach a management position with an employer with a pension defined benefit plan then it is not that unheard of to be able to get 80k in pension benefits. I was an engineer at the University of California for 30 years. Pension plans still exist. This is a decent income but I am middle class or upper middle class, by no means wealthy, depending on where you live in the US.

[Yumthai]

13 hours ago, stat said:

Most people get rich by not spending their money or getting it taxed away. Who cares what one can afford I simply do not want to spend unnecessary amounts of money. Are you aware that some people pay a million USD in tax each year? Are you telling those people because they have 20M USD they can afford to pay 1 M USD p.a. and stop thinking about it?

Personaly, if I had 20M USD tax rates will not be the priority criteria I consider to select the place I want to live.

Paying 1M USD in tax is 5%, will still have plenty of money to support a comfortable lifestyle almost anywhere in the world.

 

Having to pay 5% (1K USD) on 20K USD would certainly be more concerning.

 

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying that tax is fair, just that legal tax loopholes should not exist only for the wealthiest ones.

 

[Yumthai]

8 hours ago, Misty said:

You may misunderstand the LTR visa's tax benefits.  I currently have the LTR HSP visa but am not "legally tax-free." I will pay a substantial amount of Thai income tax on my salary, albeit at a flat rate of 17%. Previously on a different LTR visa at progressive rates I paid up to the top 35% marginal rate, or effectively a total of c30% including RMF deductions. 

Indeed local income is always taxable, I was referring to foreign-sourced income remitted in Thailand legally tax-free while holding LTR visa.

[pablo el sueco]

On 4/1/2024 at 10:21 AM, Pib said:

there has been a good amount of talk regarding what BOI will request document-wise during the mid-term/5 year renewal point such as to if they they only request 1 or 2 years of documents like during the "initial" LTR Visa application or will they request 5 years worth for some requirements such as income/health insurance to ensure a person maintained visa requirements throughout the length of the visa permitted to stay period. 

In an email yesterday, I asked the LTR visa unit what documentation will be required to confirm compliance with the self-insurance provision at the 5-year point.  Would they require 5 years of bank statements?  They responded as follows:

Quote

It must be a bank statement showing the 100,000 USD retained in the bank for the past 12 months before the visa extension process.

 

[Pib]

20 minutes ago, pablo el sueco said:

In an email yesterday, I asked the LTR visa unit what documentation will be required to confirm compliance with the self-insurance provision at the 5-year point.  Would they require 5 years of bank statements?  They responded as follows:

 

That's good to hear.    Hopefully the 5 year renewal process will basically mirror the initial application process in that they will only ask for 1 or 2 years worth of various docs (I sure hope so) but we won't know for sure until mid 2027 when the first batch of issued LTR visas would be within approx 3 months of 5 year renewal.   And since people "learned how to ride the LTR application bicycle" during the initial application then having/gathering the paperwork for the 5 year renewal will be easier.   Unless BOI publishes some guidance on the LTR 5 year renewal process which would provide public notice to applicants I would guess the renewal process will mirror the initial application.

 

However, keep in mind that BOI/Immigration (especially Immigration) could ask for additional documentation to prove if a person has maintained the visa requirements throughout the past 5 year period...they can do that for any type of visa.  But I would expect (guess) they would only do this if they had suspicion a person was not maintaining the requirements and/or at the renewal time some event/policy change motivates BOI/Immigration to check to see if an applicant possibly failed to comply in maintaining visa requirements like maybe not maintaining an insurance policy or $100K self insure for several years after initially getting the visa approval but then getting a policy/topping-up their bank balance to $100K twelve months before the renewal.    

 

A person who fails to maintain all visa requirements throughout the visa/permitted to stay period is gambling (hoping) it will not be spotted/checked.  Preaching to the choir I'm sure.

[ThailandRyan]

15 hours ago, SingAPorn said:

The plan seems to work, .Give those wealthy global pensioneers a ltr and once they are settled, put a hefty tax on their foreign pensions.

The sounds of jealousy

[oldcpu]

16 hours ago, stat said:

Is ist still Ok to show a brokerage account (Interactive Brokers) that shows cash over 100K USD for 12 month ? Much obliged!

No. I tried and it wasn't accepted.

[stat]

12 hours ago, oldcpu said:

No. I tried and it wasn't accepted.

Thanks a lot! For me the biggest risk is that for some reasons one of the documents get rejected either when applying or when getting the 5 year extension. The 80K passive income per year is tricky while the goal is to not generate any passive income which is taxed in Europe/US etc. As for the bigger part I only have shares so I can "generate" income by selling shares whenever I want.

 

Are the 2 years rolling years or must they be calendar years?

 

Example:

 

2025 Jan-Dec 80K

2026 month Jan alone 80K

 

Can I apply for LTR in Feb 2026 as I already crossed the 80K Limit in Jan 2026?

 

Does the BOI factor in losses in their calculation? Do I need 200K in positive income if I realized a loss of 120K beforehand in the same calendar year ? Example loss of 120K in Jan 2025 and feb to dec 80K plus.

 

I assume they accept a brokerage account like IB to show the 1M USD for the wealthy pensioner LTR and to prove the 80K income?

 

Remains a mystery why it does not suffice to show 1M USD of liquid financial instruments for an intital 5 year LTR Visa but TiT. OK "only" 200K USD per year is not enough to live in TH 🤣

Plan is to come back to TH with 1+1 year OA visa (leaving some days before visa ends and then come back with another year on OA) and then apply inside of TH for LTR.

 

Thanks!

 

 

[stat]

15 hours ago, Yumthai said:

Personaly, if I had 20M USD tax rates will not be the priority criteria I consider to select the place I want to live.

Paying 1M USD in tax is 5%, will still have plenty of money to support a comfortable lifestyle almost anywhere in the world.

 

Having to pay 5% (1K USD) on 20K USD would certainly be more concerning.

 

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying that tax is fair, just that legal tax loopholes should not exist only for the wealthiest ones.

 

Maybe this is one of the reasons you do not have 20M USD because you consider paying 1 M in taxes every! year neglible. A  lot of people come to Thailand even without any tax advantage. If you have the option between Bali and Thailand and TH is 1 M USD per year cheaper, the decission is a no brainer unless you have a specific bond to Bali like a wife etc IMHO. But to each their own.

[Yumthai]

7 hours ago, stat said:

Maybe this is one of the reasons you do not have 20M USD because you consider paying 1 M in taxes every! year neglible.

Yes, I consider paying 1M (5%) in tax negligible because the remaining 19M (that I will certainly make keep growing at more than 5% yearly over years) is more than enough to cover comfortably my family life. I'm not into collecting money for money, it's just a tool.

But like you said, to each their own.

 

7 hours ago, stat said:

If you have the option between Bali and Thailand and TH is 1 M USD per year cheaper, the decission is a no brainer unless you have a specific bond to Bali like a wife etc IMHO.

I've lived in Bali. I'll choose Thailand anytime even if I had to pay 1M (5%) more in tax.

[Pib]

14 hours ago, stat said:

Thanks a lot! For me the biggest risk is that for some reasons one of the documents get rejected either when applying or when getting the 5 year extension. The 80K passive income per year is tricky while the goal is to not generate any passive income which is taxed in Europe/US etc. As for the bigger part I only have shares so I can "generate" income by selling shares whenever I want.

 

Are the 2 years rolling years or must they be calendar years?

 

Example:

 

2025 Jan-Dec 80K

2026 month Jan alone 80K

 

Can I apply for LTR in Feb 2026 as I already crossed the 80K Limit in Jan 2026?

Yes....but BOI may want proof that since you just went over the minimum income requirement that level of income is likely to continue.  if it's primarily pension-based then that's easy enough to proof since it's unlikely a pension will decease...usually just increase from period cost of living increases.  If not primarily pension-based the the stability of your income could come into question without income from previous years supporting your current income level.

 

 

14 hours ago, stat said:

 

Does the BOI factor in losses in their calculation? Do I need 200K in positive income if I realized a loss of 120K beforehand in the same calendar year ? Example loss of 120K in Jan 2025 and feb to dec 80K plus.

As far as I know they expect you to meet the minimum income levels each year.  Income based on pension/passive/fixed income should be fairly stable compared to income based on selling of stocks.

 

 

14 hours ago, stat said:

 

I assume they accept a brokerage account like IB to show the 1M USD for the wealthy pensioner LTR and to prove the 80K income?

For the Pensioner LTR their is no requirement for $1M...that's a Wealthy Global Citizen LTR requirement.  The LTR Pensioner income requirement is either $80K/yr "or" $40K/yr with $250K investment in Thailand.

 

 

 

[stat]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

Yes....but BOI may want proof that since you just went over the minimum income requirement that level of income is likely to continue.  if it's primarily pension-based then that's easy enough to proof since it's unlikely a pension will decease...usually just increase from period cost of living increases.  If not primarily pension-based the the stability of your income could come into question without income from previous years supporting your current income level.

 

 

As far as I know they expect you to meet the minimum income levels each year.  Income based on pension/passive/fixed income should be fairly stable compared to income based on selling of stocks.

 

 

For the Pensioner LTR their is no requirement for $1M...that's a Wealthy Global Citizen LTR requirement.  The LTR Pensioner income requirement is either $80K/yr "or" $40K/yr with $250K investment in Thailand.

 

 

 

Thanks for your post! Where did you get the great screenshot that states capital gain are passive income? 

 

I just saw that the income requirement for the wealthy citizen is 80K of income whereas for the pensioner LTR it states passive income. The 1 M USD requirement is technically relatively easy as every bank provides those statements (if you the money in the bank of course). Are the physical stamps different (Pensioner to wealthy citizen)? I would rather not have a stamp in my passport that flags me as wealthy for obvious reasons.

 

Thanks!

[Pib]

17 minutes ago, stat said:

Thanks for your post! Where did you get the great screenshot that states capital gain are passive income? 

 

I just saw that the income requirement for the wealthy citizen is 80K of income whereas for the pensioner LTR it states passive income. The 1 M USD requirement is technically relatively easy as every bank provides those statements (if you the money in the bank of course). Are the physical stamps different (Pensioner to wealthy citizen)? I would rather not have a stamp in my passport that flags me as wealthy for obvious reasons.

 

Thanks!

 

Full info (like the screenshot) at the BOI LTR website:  https://ltr.boi.go.th/

 

The LTR visa stamp that goes into your passport is just a plain jane stamp....for visa category it just has "LTR" preprinted followed by a handwritten code like "P" for pensioner.  

 

And Cap Gains is passive income since it was not earned from employment/wages.

[K2938]

On 4/5/2024 at 1:33 AM, stat said:

As for the bigger part I only have shares so I can "generate" income by selling shares whenever I want.

As has been previously discussed in this thread at least in the past the BOI was not very excited about any significant amount of capital gains, especially when these were generated based on your decision vs. the decision of some external trustee.  Please therefore kindly update us if you make any progress with this.  Thank you.

[sabaiguy]

On 4/4/2024 at 10:33 AM, stat said:

Thanks a lot! For me the biggest risk is that for some reasons one of the documents get rejected either when applying or when getting the 5 year extension. The 80K passive income per year is tricky while the goal is to not generate any passive income which is taxed in Europe/US etc. As for the bigger part I only have shares so I can "generate" income by selling shares whenever I want.

 

Are the 2 years rolling years or must they be calendar years?

 

Example:

 

2025 Jan-Dec 80K

2026 month Jan alone 80K

 

Can I apply for LTR in Feb 2026 as I already crossed the 80K Limit in Jan 2026?

 

Does the BOI factor in losses in their calculation? Do I need 200K in positive income if I realized a loss of 120K beforehand in the same calendar year ? Example loss of 120K in Jan 2025 and feb to dec 80K plus.

 

I assume they accept a brokerage account like IB to show the 1M USD for the wealthy pensioner LTR and to prove the 80K income?

 

Remains a mystery why it does not suffice to show 1M USD of liquid financial instruments for an intital 5 year LTR Visa but TiT. OK "only" 200K USD per year is not enough to live in TH 🤣

Plan is to come back to TH with 1+1 year OA visa (leaving some days before visa ends and then come back with another year on OA) and then apply inside of TH for LTR.

 

Thanks!

 

 

A lot of interesting questions.  I think you are asking the wrong crowd.  I suggest you direct your questions to BOI.   They were responsive to my questions.   Approved for my appointment (final step) two weeks ago.  Now just have to get back to Thailand.

[Pib]

Below are LTR Visa applications snapshots as of end of 31 Mar 2024 and 31 Aug 2023 to give an idea of applications activity since the LTR Visa Program kickoff 1 Sep 2022.  Snapshots from the BoI LTR website that now seems to be in the groove of providing updates every month or two. 

 

Averages out to 368 applications per month over the last 19 months...since the program's kickoff 1 Sep 2022.  Of course when the program initially opened the number of applications per month was probably much higher....that spike you see with any new program. 

 

Now, if just looking at the last 7 months from 1 Sep 2023 thru 31 Mar 2024 the average is 307 applications per month.  Seems the LTR program has settled into a groove of appox 300 applications per month.  

 

Please note this is applications (applies); it does not say how many of the applications were endorsed (i.e., approved).   The Pensioner category is still the most popular closely followed by Work From Thailand Professional category.....closely followed by the Dependents category in third place.  And the number of Highly Skilled Professionals is making a healthy jump upwards.    Over the last 7 months the Pensioner category has averaged about 87 applications per month. 

 

Thru 31 Mar 2024

 

 

Thru 31 Aug 2023

 

 

[1tent42]

I applied for the LTR visa and submitted my pension benefit letter that showed I have a pension of at least $80K a year.

 

BOI keeps asking me for my tax return and 1099s.  Is this normal?  I thought the pension benefit letter would be sufficient since I've exceeded the $80K minimum requirement for passive income.