Cremation of expat in Thailand

[MrMuddle]

7 minutes ago, Excel said:

And if not, sue them ?.  Absolutely pointless exercise with private hospitals here. They will maximise profits so keep the treatment going come what may. If you want not to be kept alive unnecessarily suggest you use a government hospital.  They will still try to help you wherever possible as all the doctors follow the Hippocratic oath.  The only difference is government hospitals put patients first not profits.

Have to agree with this. I used a very well known private Hospital in Bangkok. They kept asking would I like this test, or that treatment? Cost me a small fortune by the time they'd finished and I was no better!

[Excel]

Just now, MrMuddle said:

Have to agree with this. I used a very well known private Hospital in Bangkok. They kept asking would I like this test, or that treatment? Cost me a small fortune by the time they'd finished and I was no better!

Quite a common occurrence unfortunately.

[kokopelli]

17 hours ago, Excel said:

And if not, sue them ?.  Absolutely pointless exercise with private hospitals here. They will maximise profits so keep the treatment going come what may. If you want not to be kept alive unnecessarily suggest you use a government hospital.  They will still try to help you wherever possible as all the doctors follow the Hippocratic oath.  The only difference is government hospitals put patients first not profits.

Someone I know of was at a private hospital and was beyond help; he had a "do not resuscitate order" on file. His doctor asked if he wished to die at home or in the hospital; his reply was at home. He was given a morphine shot to calm him and and a secondary medication to use at home. He died at home.  Depends on the doctor.

[The Fugitive]

4 hours ago, kokopelli said:

Someone I know of was at a private hospital and was beyond help; he had a "do not resuscitate order" on file. His doctor asked if he wished to die at home or in the hospital; his reply was at home. He was given a morphine shot to calm him and and a secondary medication to use at home. He died at home.  Depends on the doctor.

Thanks for that. When the time comes some of us definitely won't be in a private hospital. However, from what I've seen, even in Government hospitals, palliative care continues under the supervision of a doctor (as it should) and the patient is only brought home at the final stage with pain pump in-situ. This is usually preferable for relatives and friends to pay their last respects and from the 'street party' point of view. It also avoids transporting the deceased on the flat bed of a pick-up with unpleasant result.

[JimTripper]

Just shutup & die

[Liverpool Lou]

On 7/18/2022 at 6:33 PM, blackshadow said:

yeah i saw medics and police in his room while he was laying dead in room........

Obviously...that's where medics and police have to be in the case of a reported death.

Edited July 27, 2022 by Liverpool Lou

[Liverpool Lou]

On 7/22/2022 at 12:54 PM, The Fugitive said:

Interesting that in the U.K. anyone can apply for a copy of someone's death certificate because it's a public record. That does make you think! 

There's a difference between a pubic record being accessed once data has been made available to the public and the hospital handing the original death certificate to a complete stranger, not to those authorised to receive it.

[Liverpool Lou]

On 7/22/2022 at 5:24 PM, MrMuddle said:

On 7/18/2022 at 5:02 PM, TigerandDog said:

The format of a Thai will makes provision for you to dictate how your remains are disposed of .e.g. cremation, burial or repatriation to home country.

 

How many more threads on this topic have to appear before people realise how easy it is to sort these things out, AND you do not need a lawyer if you have nominated an executor in your Thai will.

You don't have to reply, it's not compulsory, you can always scroll on.

You don't have to reply, either, it's not compulsory, you can always scroll on.

[Liverpool Lou]

On 7/24/2022 at 6:04 PM, Excel said:

On 7/24/2022 at 6:02 PM, The Hammer2021 said:

I have a living will to prevent  me being kept alive unnecessarily for an undue length of time when there is no chance of recovery.

And how will you know if they honour that contract ?

Why wouldn't they?

[Rimmer]

A troll post and a reply removed

[The Hammer2021]

On 7/24/2022 at 3:47 PM, simon43 said:

When my Thai niece slipped into a coma (untreated HIV/TB), the Thai doctor suggested a morphine drip to ease her passing.  I was surprised (and happy) with this offer to ease her suffering, since I was under the impression that a Buddhist doctor would simply leave her to die naturally (and perhaps with some suffering).  

 

Perhaps they needed the bed? ????

Such a comment  is hardly appropriate. First you praise a service for their compassion then make a cynical, unfounded comment without any kind of evidence. Perhaps it was just 'gallows humour.'

It's the British NHS service that is broken and short of beds as has been widely published recently. Regarding compassion- in this area based on my lived experience I have found the  NHS not just  lacking in compassion  but at times cruel and thoughtless. Anyway I hope your nice passed peacefully. It can't have  been easy for you.

[The Fugitive]

3 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

There's a difference between a pubic record being accessed once data has been made available to the public and the hospital handing the original death certificate to a complete stranger, not to those authorised to receive it.

The text read; 'My interest at the time was to obtain a death certificate'. I read that as obtaining a copy and not referring to the original documents signed by a doctor which, (in U.K.), the next of kin collects from the hospital with instructions to take them to the local council registrars office. Raises a question, if you didn't do that, would the death ever be registered? That is assuming Thailand operates same as U.K. 

[The Fugitive]

1 hour ago, The Hammer2021 said:

It's the British NHS service that is broken and short of beds as has been widely published recently.

The U.K. N.H.S. has been cash-strapped, short of beds, doctors, nurses, equipment and facilities for as long as any of us can remember. I recall hearing expressions such as; 'N.H.S. is practically defunct' from employees as long ago as the late sixties. The annoying thing is it isn't, it never was. All the problems are caused by their accountants. 

[The Fugitive]

6 hours ago, JimTripper said:

Just shutup & die

I like it. Are you a Yorkshireman Jim?

[connda]

On 7/18/2022 at 12:31 PM, taotoo said:

You'll need a death certificate, countersigned by the deceased.

How many people "Got" that? 

[The Hammer2021]

3 hours ago, The Fugitive said:

The U.K. N.H.S. has been cash-strapped, short of beds, doctors, nurses, equipment and facilities for as long as any of us can remember. I recall hearing expressions such as; 'N.H.S. is practically defunct' from employees as long ago as the late sixties. The annoying thing is it isn't, it never was. All the problems are caused by their accountants. 

I hear you

[KIngsofisaan]

My wife told me when I die in Isaan (very rural), she will contact the temple and all arrangements for cremation will be made.

 

No paperwork or anything else required.

 

 

[The Hammer2021]

On 7/18/2022 at 1:36 PM, HarrySeaman said:

If you live in Thailand and don't have a Thai will and an executor then read below carefully!

First:  Someone needs to contact the deceased's embassy for instructions.

 

Is there a will, and if so, are you the executor?  If so go to the attorney who executed the will and they will guide you through everything.  The embassy will quickly issue the necessary paperwork to pick up the body from the hospital and cremate the deceased.  This will take only days, or perhaps a week.

 

Here is some of what I went through becoming the executor for a friend who died intestate.

 

If there isn't a will and you want to be the executor then get a good lawyer because you will need to fill in lots of legal papers to be appointed executor by the Thai courts, which takes weeks or even months since the family of the deceased needs to agree to you being the executor and paperwork needs to go back and forth between the deceased's family and the Thai lawyer.  After that I waited for the papers to get to the court, waited for a two separate court dates for two internet video sessions with the lawyer and the judge, then finally the lawyer could pick up the paperwork from the court for me.  It took four-five weeks total just for the courts.  Expect the cost to be at least 20,000 Bt.

 

Once you obtain the death certificate you will need and official Thai government translation for the embassy so they can issue the papers needed for the hospital to release the body.  The lawyer can guide you through this or even get it done for you.  The cremation is then arranged at a temple.  Note that in Thailand this is done with a wood fire, leaving lots of wood ashes and the bones, many of which will be intact or in large pieces.  Usually the bones are then broken up and the ashes and bone fragments collected. 

 

In my case, Thai friends of mine and of my deceased friend helped collect the body and take it to Wat Nop Thong Di Si Puet Ta Ram here in Pattaya for cremation.  The next morning they collected the remains of the deceased and arranged for the remains to be given up to the the Chittaphawan College of Phrakhru Winaithornthanakorn Attasaro (Luang Por Poonsub) temple for blessings.  These friends gave me some of the remains to send to my friends family then we took the rest to the Forbidden Floating Temple to dispose of in the ocean.

 

If you wish to dispose of the ashes and bones it is generally done into water.  The Thai guiding you can help with this.

 

If you wish to ship any of the deceased remains to your home country then you have a whole new world of problems.  To ship some of my friends remains to his family in the USA I had to find a funeral home in Bangkok that could arrange this (not strictly legal and not cheap).  They could only ship to an international airport directly - no forwarding flights once in the USA.  The remains had to be picked up by a funeral home that then shipped them to the family.  The cost for the USA funeral home made the cost in Thailand look minuscule.

Very informative. What is your main take and what would  be your advice? I would like to know what would have happened if nobody had done anything. Would the deceased receive a 'paupers cremation'

[JimTripper]

6 hours ago, The Hammer2021 said:

Very informative. What is your main take and what would  be your advice? I would like to know what would have happened if nobody had done anything. Would the deceased receive a 'paupers cremation'

They don't let bodies just "sit around".

 

Your body would be reported to the authorities, taken by the coroner, and probably cremated at the coroner if nobody claimdd you (not 100% on that, a Buddhist country may let a temple claim you for a pauper cremation free of cost, or using the money you had on you at time of death).

 

If nobody reports it, then your body just sits there and decomposes or animals eat it. Hopefully by the time that occurs you have found another body to possess or moved on in some way.

Edited July 27, 2022 by JimTripper

[simon43]

22 hours ago, The Hammer2021 said:

Such a comment  is hardly appropriate. First you praise a service for their compassion then make a cynical, unfounded comment without any kind of evidence. Perhaps it was just 'gallows humour.'

It's the British NHS service that is broken and short of beds as has been widely published recently. Regarding compassion- in this area based on my lived experience I have found the  NHS not just  lacking in compassion  but at times cruel and thoughtless. Anyway I hope your nice passed peacefully. It can't have  been easy for you.

Indeed, 'gallows humour'.  But actually they did need the bed!  Because she had infectious TB, she had to stay in a private room with a positive air pressure system, which would normally be used for seriously-ill Covid patients.  After she died, she was on the way to the temple in about 15 minutes.  

 

Thanks for your thoughts. She was like my own daughter, and one usually expects to pass on before your offspring.

[The Hammer2021]

18 hours ago, KIngsofisaan said:

My wife told me when I die in Isaan (very rural), she will contact the temple and all arrangements for cremation will be made.

 

No paperwork or anything else required.

 

 

Thats how I would expect  it.

[NativeBob]

my experience on this dark subject: dude jumped from 23rd floor into swimming pool.  sent his body to nearby morgue. later his mother arrive to Thailand, Bangkok. Some rep. asked for 50K to arrange cremation etc. but rep. from Embassy asked him to get lost and buried the body somewhere near BKK at local christian cemetery. Mother paid only basic fees.

Meanwhile in Pattaya fella died (2015?) and it cost a hell to his girlfriend (wife but not wife) to cremate his remains. She said it was a nightmare + almost $2K in bribes + THB12K for furnace services.

Body's donation is very noble act, but is it applicable for us, mere farangs?

Edited July 28, 2022 by Rimmer
Inflammatory term removed

[Speedo1968]

19 hours ago, KIngsofisaan said:

My wife told me when I die in Isaan (very rural), she will contact the temple and all arrangements for cremation will be made.

 

No paperwork or anything else required.

 

 

As I am not married according to UK embassy  i understand that i have to have a next of kin give their permission for me to be cremated.  

[The Fugitive]

19 hours ago, KIngsofisaan said:

My wife told me when I die in Isaan (very rural), she will contact the temple and all arrangements for cremation will be made.

 

No paperwork or anything else required.

 

 

Just to be absolutely clear, if you are legally married (registered at the amphur) your widow being next of kin has complete control and making a will (Thai or in home Country) is not necessary. As I understand it, as a foreigner she would have to notify your Consulate in the first instance? 

[konaboy]

On 7/18/2022 at 12:31 PM, taotoo said:

You'll need a death certificate, countersigned by the deceased.

how many copies?

[konaboy]

27 minutes ago, Speedo1968 said:

As I am not married according to UK embassy  i understand that i have to have a next of kin give their permission for me to be cremated.  

my son...also for Americans of age there is a SS payment available for funeral expenses. Contact the US Embassy in Thailand

[The Hammer2021]

1 hour ago, NativeBob said:

my experience on this dark subject: dude jumped from 23rd floor into swimming pool. Those body snatchers sent his body to nearby morgue. later his mother arrive to Thailand, Bangkok. Some rep. asked for 50K to arrange cremation etc. but rep. from Embassy asked him to get lost and buried the body somewhere near BKK at local christian cemetery. Mother paid only basic fees.

Meanwhile in Pattaya fella died (2015?) and it cost a hell to his girlfriend (wife but not wife) to cremate his remains. She said it was a nightmare + almost $2K in bribes + THB12K for furnace services.

Body's donation is very noble act, but is it applicable for us, mere farangs?

Body snatchers? Why insult people who do such a necessary job.

The term 'body snatchers' is offensive  and cruel to relatives or friends  of recently  departed people.

The morgue personnel who pick up dead bodies  do a vital job and should not be casually  insulted. Body snatchers are people who dug up graves and steal dead bodies the most famous  being Burke and Hare.

Edited July 28, 2022 by The Hammer2021

[The Hammer2021]

I'm pretty sure my living will lodged with BPH cites local tradition for body disposal

[KIngsofisaan]

4 hours ago, The Fugitive said:

Just to be absolutely clear, if you are legally married (registered at the amphur) your widow being next of kin has complete control and making a will (Thai or in home Country) is not necessary. As I understand it, as a foreigner she would have to notify your Consulate in the first instance? 

No need to notify anyone

[Speedo1968]

OP - Thanks for all the comments.  As I am from UK those relating to UK issues are very helpful.
However, I am still confused over the key issues. of releasing the body for cremation even after contacting the UK Embassy in Bangkok.

A daughter in the UK is nominated as executor of my Will that at present relates only to bank accounts in UK.    The Embassy in Bangkok has said that I cannot be cremated without a "legal / signed permission" of next of kin.     ( I had thought that a legally signed document in English and Thai nominating a friend in Thailand would be able to follow my written wishes for funeral ).  

 

So does it now mean that I must make a new UK Will ( inc bank / cremation ) or separate Wills for bank and cremation ?     For the Thai end a Will solely relating to funeral ?

 

Can anyone recommend a lawyer in Khon Kaen who is au fait with the laws etc.?
Example do I need a copy / details of passport / ID card ( Thai ) for all concerned ?
Who can witness signatures for UK Will in relation to cremation ?
Any ideas of approximate costs ?

Sorry if this is confusing for readers too.