32 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

12 midnight to 6am it all changed. I watched the tv coverage.

 

Is this normal?

 

Not where Im from. The vote counting has more integrity

 

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/americans-faith-election-integrity-drops-poll/story?id=82069876

 

80% of americans agree with me.

 

You are in the minority

It was predicted in advance for that shift  to happen for the simple reason of a phenomenon called blue shift and red shift. It reflected the fact that Democrats were far more likely to use mail-in ballots than were Republicans, thanks in no small part to Trump inveighing against mail-in ballots. So in Pennsylvania where mail in ballots don't begin to be counted until the polls are closed, the vote started out red but as more and more mail-in ballots were counted turned blue. It should be noted that the Democrats in the state legislature pushed for mail-in ballots to be counted ahead. The Republicans quashed that. I'm sure they had a good reason for that and that it had nothing to do with a desire to sow confusion and doubt.

 

In Iowa on the other hand mail-in ballots were counted ahead. So the Democrats started out with the lead but as the night went on the vote turned red. A red shift.

 

As for Americans mistrusting voting...when one major political party keeps on repeating falsehoods over and over again, it can change public opinion. The technique is called the big lie. The fact that even in states where the governor and the official who controls elections are Republican. as well as the legislature,  found no fraud is apparently a truth harder to digest. 

1 hour ago, proton said:

Like Hillary you mean? how many years did she go on about it and crying she won the popular vote. Trump was cheated by the anti media assault on him and lies by the Democrats for 4 years.

Did Hillary Clinton ever challenge the vote count or try to stop Trump's certification as President?

 

Regarding Trump and the media, he was gifted the Republican nomination in 2016 by the news channels that gave him incalculable amounts of free publicity in their pursuit of ratings. 

 

The Democrat's "assault" on Trump was similar by McConnell's vow to make Obama a one term President and nothing compared to Trump's promotion of the birtherism nonsense.

1 hour ago, Sparktrader said:

Then you would know the difference between capitalism and socialism.

 

I know that neither has ever existed in pure form in any society and never will.  I know that the "ideals" of all extremes have an appealing simplicity but don't work in the real world. 

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

Yet another new question? If it means pleasing you I would say he certainly won't formally concede. 

Good.  Let's take the next step.

 

Do you agree that democracy can't exist unless losing candidates concede that they lost unless they have verifiable evidence of significant fraud in the election?

1 hour ago, Sparktrader said:

We dont know it was.

I don't believe the election was stolen for the same reason I don't believe in the Easter bunny; I have not seen convincing evidence of either.

 

If you have convincing evidence of either, please share it.

1 hour ago, Sparktrader said:

12 midnight to 6am it all changed. I watched the tv coverage.

 

Is this normal?

 

Not where Im from. The vote counting has more integrity

 

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/americans-faith-election-integrity-drops-poll/story?id=82069876

 

80% of americans agree with me.

 

You are in the minority

You should read your references.  It doesn't say that.

3 minutes ago, heybruce said:

You should read your references.  It doesn't say that.

It does 

 

America's faith in the integrity of the election system remains shaken by the events of Jan. 6, with only 20% of the public saying it's very confident about the system, a new ABC/Ipsos poll finds. This is a significant drop from 37% in an ABC News/Washington Post poll conducted in the days after the insurrection last year.

Edited August 1, 20223 yr by Sparktrader

16 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

It does 

 

America's faith in the integrity of the election system remains shaken by the events of Jan. 6, with only 20% of the public saying it's very confident about the system, a new ABC/Ipsos poll finds. This is a significant drop from 37% in an ABC News/Washington Post poll conducted in the days after the insurrection last year.

You should read the reports from the links you provide. There are also 39% "somewhat confident" so that makes 59% confident.

In the same poll, 65% replied that Biden's victory was legitimate.

Edited August 1, 20223 yr by candide

20 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

It does 

 

America's faith in the integrity of the election system remains shaken by the events of Jan. 6, with only 20% of the public saying it's very confident about the system, a new ABC/Ipsos poll finds. This is a significant drop from 37% in an ABC News/Washington Post poll conducted in the days after the insurrection last year.

"the system", not the election.  The January 6 assault on the Capitol shook up Americans confidence in the system. Two sentences further you can read "30% say they are very confident in the U.S. election systems overall."

 

If you go to the link provided you will see a discussion of the poll results which state:

 

"Sixty-five percent of Americans believe Biden's victory in the 2020 election was legitimate, which is similar to the results of a January 2021 ABC News/Ipsos poll (68%). Nearly all Democrats -- 93% -- think the election results were legitimate while most Republicans do not. Among Republicans, 71% sided with Trump's false claims that he was the rightful winner."  https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/majority-americans-jan-attack-threatened-democracy-poll/story?id=81990555

Edited August 1, 20223 yr by heybruce

3 minutes ago, heybruce said:

"the system", not the election.  The January 6 assault on the Capitol shook up Americans confidence in the system. Two sentences further you can read "30% say they are very confident in the U.S. election systems overall."

 

If you go to the link provided you will see a discussion of the poll results which state:

 

"Sixty-five percent of Americans believe Biden's victory in the 2020 election was legitimate, which is similar to the results of a January 2021 ABC News/Ipsos poll (68%). Nearly all Democrats -- 93% -- think the election results were legitimate while most Republicans do not. Among Republicans, 71% sided with Trump's false claims that he was the rightful winner."  https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/majority-americans-jan-attack-threatened-democracy-poll/story?id=81990555

System means all elections

6 minutes ago, candide said:

You should read the reports from the links you provide. There are also 39% "somewhat confident" so that makes 59% confident.

In the same poll, 65% replied that Biden's victory was legitimate.

System ie all elections

 

32 minutes ago, heybruce said:

I don't believe the election was stolen for the same reason I don't believe in the Easter bunny; I have not seen convincing evidence of either.

 

If you have convincing evidence of either, please share it.

Do you believe that there was Russian collusion in the elections that got Donald elected ?

8 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Do you believe that there was Russian collusion in the elections that got Donald elected ?

Yes the media ran that for years

14 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

System means all elections

Clearly that is not true, as most people who read the article will see.

 

I think we can see why you believe the election is stolen; if the facts don't agree with what you want to believe, you redefine the facts.

1 minute ago, heybruce said:

Clearly that is not true, as most people who read the article will see.

 

I think we can see why you believe the election is stolen; if the facts don't agree with what you want to believe, you redefine the facts.

Never said it was stolen. You are just expressing your own thoughts based on anti Trump.

 

The system lacks integrity. 80% agree.

 

 

12 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Do you believe that there was Russian collusion in the elections that got Donald elected ?

Yes.  I believe Mueller and his report.

 

"The report also found that the Russian government, which is led by President Vladimir Putin, interfered with the 2016 presidential election "in sweeping and systematic fashion." Mueller reinforced that on Wednesday. "There were multiple, systematic efforts to interfere in our election. And that allegation deserves the attention of every American." "  https://www.cnet.com/news/politics/robert-mueller-on-trump-and-russian-interference-the-report-speaks-for-itself/

47 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Good.  Let's take the next step.

 

Do you agree that democracy can't exist unless losing candidates concede that they lost unless they have verifiable evidence of significant fraud in the election?

No.

16 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

System ie all elections

 

It's you who came up with it in order to claim that 80% of Americans agreed with you. If not relevant, why did you quote it?

 

Anyway 65% thought Biden's election was legitimate. That wasn't about "all elections", right?

3 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

Yes the media ran that for years

Had four years of protests in the streets , riots and lootings and arson , "Not my President" "Russian collusion" , numerous Court cases and impeachment attempts , smear campaigns and trying everything possible to get Donald removed from office . 

   Now its suddenly undemocratic to question an elections legitimacy .

How times changed overnight .

2 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

Never said it was stolen. You are just expressing your own thoughts based on anti Trump.

 

The system lacks integrity. 80% agree.

That 80% include people who believe Trump's big lie and those who were shaken by how close Trump came to preventing the certification of the election result by riling up a mob and sending it to the Capitol.

1 minute ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Had four years of protests in the streets , riots and lootings and arson , "Not my President" "Russian collusion" , numerous Court cases and impeachment attempts , smear campaigns and trying everything possible to get Donald removed from office . 

   Now its suddenly undemocratic to question an elections legitimacy .

How times changed overnight .

When were the results of the 2016 election challenged in court, and by who?

 

Also, when and where were there riots, looting and arson over the 2016 results?

5 minutes ago, nauseus said:

No.

Really?  Can you name a stable, successful democracy in which election results are not accepted by the losers?

3 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Had four years of protests in the streets , riots and lootings and arson , "Not my President" "Russian collusion" , numerous Court cases and impeachment attempts , smear campaigns and trying everything possible to get Donald removed from office . 

   Now its suddenly undemocratic to question an elections legitimacy .

How times changed overnight .

So true

"Russians stole it" for years vs one day of thugs having a whinge

 

It seems democrat supporters are massive hypocrites

 

 

 

 

13 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Clearly that is not true, as most people who read the article will see.

 

I think we can see why you believe the election is stolen; if the facts don't agree with what you want to believe, you redefine the facts.

They will read what i quoted

4 minutes ago, heybruce said:

When were the results of the 2016 election challenged in court, and by who?

 

Also, when and where were there riots, looting and arson over the 2016 results?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Oakland_riots

4 minutes ago, heybruce said:

That 80% include people who believe Trump's big lie and those who were shaken by how close Trump came to preventing the certification of the election result by riling up a mob and sending it to the Capitol.

It seems you also didn't read the report with enough attention. It's not 80%, It's 41%.

4 minutes ago, nauseus said:

No.

As Candide had a laugh, I will qualify by saying that any action or behaviour of one individual cannot stop any system of government, especially democracy. Now I must away to the shop. 

35 minutes ago, heybruce said:

. Two sentences further you can read "30% say they are very confident in the U.S. election systems overall."

Very very low

 

3/10 

 

 

1 minute ago, candide said:

It seems you also didn't read the report with enough attention. It's not 80%, It's 41%.

Cherry picker

14 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Oakland_riots

So one riot and no court challenges.