A closer look at the new education bill that will shape the future of Thailand

[NativeBob]

Obviously uneducated teachers can't teach something better than themselves. Talking about BKK - farang so called "teachers" are even worse, hope the Ministry of Education will get rid of them one day. 

[Lacessit]

31 minutes ago, NativeBob said:

Obviously uneducated teachers can't teach something better than themselves. Talking about BKK - farang so called "teachers" are even worse, hope the Ministry of Education will get rid of them one day. 

I tend to agree, mainly because I have seen posts by foreigners claiming to be teachers in Thailand on ASEAN murdering grammar, punctuation, and spelling.

[zzaa09]

33 minutes ago, NativeBob said:

Obviously uneducated teachers can't teach something better than themselves. Talking about BKK - farang so called "teachers" are even worse, hope the Ministry of Education will get rid of them one day. 

All too commonplace and quite the menace.

[KIngsofisaan]

5 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

When you own and live in a Western house in the West , then we can talk 

I own a house in the west that has appreciated US $400,000 in the past three years

[KIngsofisaan]

11 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

So you speak in grunts Lao Style, or do you use Cambodian gestures.  Thais speak Thai, with different dialects....it is still the Thai language.

Bye dude.

 

You just dont get it

[IgboChief]

On 7/27/2022 at 7:33 PM, KIngsofisaan said:

Uneducated Thai teachers will never be able to educate Thai students.

The teachers here in Isaan at our local elementary school, none of them can speak 1 word of English.

 

Was a big problem for us. My daughter grew up with two Australian kids and got fluent in English within one year.

The "Head of English" was in the position based on age and "merit for the school", but did not speak one damn word. Of course the 3 kids mocked her and this did not go too well.  They could not even blame her, because English was only her third language. Teachers need to be role models with a natural authority, not clowns in uniforms with lameta on their shoulders. Long way to go still.

[proton]

Repeat after me, Thailand number one, Thailand never colonised, Thai very clever, Thailand the best, now shut up and get down on your knees ????

[IgboChief]

4 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I tend to agree, mainly because I have seen posts by foreigners claiming to be teachers in Thailand on ASEAN murdering grammar, punctuation, and spelling.

I learned to speak English very late. My pronunciation is awful and my grammar is just broken (my daughter mocks me every time and she has a valid point). Still her school offered me a job with payment above Expat teacher's average and they would have hired me promptly. Speaks volumes about the education system.

(I kept it as an option though for in 30 years or so.)

[IgboChief]

On 7/27/2022 at 7:37 PM, KIngsofisaan said:

It hasn't changed anything the past 30+ years.

It seem to have changed a lot: getting much worse.

Have you ever noticed the difference between talking to an elderly person and a youngster in his 20ies? The elders are often quite fluent in English and do well in understanding my poor Thai pronunciation. I can have great conversations with them, joyful and with humor and respect.

 

Young people often just stare at me, blank like a deer in the headlight. My pronunciation may be bad, but its not that wrong that I can't be understood.

Same for my daughter. She is native Thai, just looks Western. At least 3 generations completely lost -- and that was before Covid.

 

[KIngsofisaan]

2 minutes ago, IgboChief said:

It seem to have changed a lot: getting much worse.

Have you ever noticed the difference between talking to an elderly person and a youngster in his 20ies? The elders are often quite fluent in English and do well in understanding my poor Thai pronunciation. I can have great conversations with them, joyful and with humor and respect.

 

Young people often just stare at me, blank like a deer in the headlight. My pronunciation may be bad, but its not that wrong that I can't be understood.

Same for my daughter. She is native Thai, just looks Western. At least 3 generations completely lost -- and that was before Covid.

 

No one in my area speaks English at all

[BonMot]

This must be a total fail right out of the gate.

 

Thai parliament cast of characters know even less about education than MOE.

 

Truth is with some money any school could turn itself around if it has the educators with the vision, drive, intelligence and dedication.

 

Schools could be improved 500% just by picking low hanging fruit.

 

Thais are very good with some things but issues that require deeper thinking they can just copy from the west

[ThailandRyan]

3 minutes ago, KIngsofisaan said:

No one in my area speaks English at all

Of this you are 100% sure?  I lived in the deep dark recesses of Issan for a few years, Between Non Kung Thapma and Sakon Nakhon, in a small village called Wang Yai.  There were a few folks that spoke English, not real well, but had been taught obviously, and they were older folks.  A few younger girls with their husbands or boyfriends also spoke English.  The big store that housed all of the building supplies in Nong Kung Thapma was run by a lady who also spoke English.  I thought I was far off the grid as I needed an air card in order to get internet, as well as use my cell phone.  This of course was back in 2009, and 2010.  I can not believe that your area has no one that can speak English even the littlest bit.  Howver, stranger things have been known to happen.  A lot of the older foreign folks I met had stayed in the region after the Vietnam war ended and they left military service.

[Lacessit]

15 minutes ago, IgboChief said:

It seem to have changed a lot: getting much worse.

Have you ever noticed the difference between talking to an elderly person and a youngster in his 20ies? The elders are often quite fluent in English and do well in understanding my poor Thai pronunciation. I can have great conversations with them, joyful and with humor and respect.

 

Young people often just stare at me, blank like a deer in the headlight. My pronunciation may be bad, but its not that wrong that I can't be understood.

Same for my daughter. She is native Thai, just looks Western. At least 3 generations completely lost -- and that was before Covid.

 

Most doctors and dentists IME seem to have adequate English. That may be because all the technical terms are in English anyway, so they have to achieve some competency.

I've observed a similar trend, I meet older Thais who are much better at English than the young people. Perhaps the English teachers back when they were students were better too.

[BangkokReady]

On 7/27/2022 at 11:50 AM, dinsdale said:

The number one problem with education here will remain the number one problem .... corruption.

Corruption is an issue, but it is not as damaging as what I suppose is best described as "fake learning".  Teachers pretend to teach, students pretend to learn, copying and cheating is tolerated, no student can fail.

[BangkokReady]

7 hours ago, daveAustin said:

Eh? 

"I would love to see the bill put through, but it is not the bill that is the issue, it is policing it to make sure schools are following through with it."

[scorecard]

On 7/27/2022 at 9:12 PM, Mac Mickmanus said:

It does happen, all the kids that attend Thai Schools can read and write

A quick google search:

 

- The literacy rate for Thailand is 92.3%

- 95% of Thai children attend some form of school, 5% don't.

[Mac Mickmanus]

30 minutes ago, scorecard said:

A quick google search:

 

- The literacy rate for Thailand is 92.3%

- 95% of Thai children attend some form of school, 5% don't.

Yes, that 92.3 % for for all Thais , including those older Thais that never went to school .

   My 98 % figure was for Younger Thais , from when its been compulsory for kids to attend school 

[scorecard]

35 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Yes, that 92.3 % for for all Thais , including those older Thais that never went to school .

   My 98 % figure was for Younger Thais , from when its been compulsory for kids to attend school 

OK, it's compulsory for kids to attend school.

 

Perhaps it's possible that some parents ignore that law?

 

I'm aware of some sociology research which found a larger than expected number of kids not going to school, not attending at all.

 

Goes like this:

 

- Parents go to work in factories, kids get sent back to the village to live with / be raised by grandma.

 

- Grandma has never been to school, she doesn't send the kids to school because in her understanding 'kids just go to school to play, and it costs some money, so I keep them home, they can play at home'.

 

[Mac Mickmanus]

43 minutes ago, scorecard said:

OK, it's compulsory for kids to attend school.

 

Perhaps it's possible that some parents ignore that law?

 

I'm aware of some sociology research which found a larger than expected number of kids not going to school, not attending at all.

 

Goes like this:

 

- Parents go to work in factories, kids get sent back to the village to live with / be raised by grandma.

 

- Grandma has never been to school, she doesn't send the kids to school because in her understanding 'kids just go to school to play, and it costs some money, so I keep them home, they can play at home'.

 

Well yes, there probably  are extreme cases . Seems to be the thing these days , whatever the subject take , an extreme example and ignore the huge majority .

    Yes, there probably is a kid who lives in a cave somewhere in deepest Issan and has no contact with the outside world .

   But I did mean generally . normal kids that go to school , the huge majority

   

[scorecard]

33 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Well yes, there probably  are extreme cases . Seems to be the thing these days , whatever the subject take , an extreme example and ignore the huge majority .

    Yes, there probably is a kid who lives in a cave somewhere in deepest Issan and has no contact with the outside world .

   But I did mean generally . normal kids that go to school , the huge majority

   

 

33 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Well yes, there probably  are extreme cases . Seems to be the thing these days , whatever the subject take , an extreme example and ignore the huge majority .

    Yes, there probably is a kid who lives in a cave somewhere in deepest Issan and has no contact with the outside world .

   But I did mean generally . normal kids that go to school , the huge majority

   

Backpedalling and trying to hit the poster rather than the message. Not a good view. 

[Mac Mickmanus]

29 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

Backpedalling and trying to hit the poster rather than the message. Not a good view. 

No, I haven't back pedalled at all , I still say that 97 % of Thai youngsters are literate and I also didn't "hit" you either 

[herfiehandbag]

On 7/28/2022 at 8:50 AM, ikke1959 said:

They can make education bills as many as they want, but nowadays a  fully qualified teacher gets a wage of 5.000 to 7.500 THB a month and they have to pay their own SSF of 750 THB of it.. Better can work at a 7/11 for 10.000 THB a month.

Make education system, but don't get teachers it seems, because non educated people are easier to control...   And that for a country that spend so much on education... Why is nobody investigating where the money is going???

 

Besides today is a national holiday... I see kids go to special classes.. I think that relax their mind is better than teach, teach teach

B5,000 to B7,500 a month?

No sorry not so.

 

B15,000 to B17,500 perhaps. When starting out/newly qualified perhaps B12,000 a month.

 

They are certainly not well paid but they are not on less than the national minimum wage!

[herfiehandbag]

14 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Most doctors and dentists IME seem to have adequate English. That may be because all the technical terms are in English anyway, so they have to achieve some competency.

I've observed a similar trend, I meet older Thais who are much better at English than the young people. Perhaps the English teachers back when they were students were better too.

I have just retired (a couple of years early for medical reasons) from teaching English here. When I started ten years ago, the required qualifications to work as  "Teaching English as a foreign language" (TEFL),  were to be from a recognised English speaking country, where English was the primary language, to hold a degree, and to train and pass out from a teacher training establishment specialising in training people to teach English as a foreign language. 

 

If you were not from an English speaking country then you had to achieve a high grade in the IELTS ( International English Language Testing System) examination, set and marked by the British Council.

 

It was clear, even then, that these requirements were openly flouted in many many schools. On line TEFL courses, which required no practical ability, resulting in an essentially useless paper qualifications for what is essentially a practical activity. The IELTS requirement being totally ignored, teachers being recruited from all sorts of countries where some sort of English was spoken.

 

They are supplied by agencies, who "handle" all the licensing, work permit and qualifications. They are cheap, and frankly in terms of effectiveness in teaching English, somewhere between an ashtray on a motorcycle and a chocolate teapot; but they are cheap.

 

The school at which I worked has now hired one such agency, to handle all English teaching from Anuban to Matayom 3, whose program title "Make a Wit" doesn't even make sense in English. A friend on the staff there (a Thai who speaks good English) tells me they are dreadful! But they are cheap.

 

As with so many things here, the rules laid down, as outlined in my opening paragraphs, should serve to regulate the employment of EFL teachers and set a basic standard. As with so many things here they are ignored. The result is that many of the teachers are a long way below those basic standards. Back when they were enforced, maybe the standard was higher?

 

That's why teaching English in most Thai schools is a mess.

 

Edited July 29, 2022 by herfiehandbag

[BritManToo]

31 minutes ago, herfiehandbag said:

"Make a Wit"

I'd guess at "Make a wish"

Read by a Thai speaker that can read English letters but doesn't understand English pronunciation and too important for anyone to correct.

 

My opinion,

If you don't have the qualifications to teach in a school in your home country, you shouldn't be teaching here. End of!

Edited July 29, 2022 by BritManToo

[ikke1959]

1 hour ago, herfiehandbag said:

B5,000 to B7,500 a month?

No sorry not so.

 

B15,000 to B17,500 perhaps. When starting out/newly qualified perhaps B12,000 a month.

 

They are certainly not well paid but they are not on less than the national minimum wage!

Announcement of Wat Don Kai Tio School.
Recruitment for temporary employees
Teacher position. 4 positions.
Position to take a qualification exam for agency work.
A. Thai language topic. Number of 1 position.
(Wage rate is 7,000 per month by subtracting 5% from social security fund)
Two. Computer topic. Number 1 position.
(Wage rate 8,500 per month by deducting 5% from the Social Security Fund)
3. 1 position in the performing arts field.
(Wage rate is 7,000 per month by subtracting 5% from social security fund)
4. English box. Number 1 position.
(Wage rate is 7,000 per month by subtracting 5% from social security fund)
Apply from Monday 18 - 24 July 2565
08. Recruitment location for Wat Don Kai Tio school from 8:30 AM to 4:30 PM. Every day (except public holidays) or in the online application system (end of July 24, 2017 at 4.30 pm)
***Online application system will be open from July 18 - 24, 2017
Pre-exam on Wednesday 27 July 2565
Details

https://web.facebook.com/โรงเรียนวัดดอนไก่เตี้ย-428537670990605

 

Edited July 29, 2022 by ikke1959

[ThailandRyan]

6 minutes ago, ikke1959 said:

Announcement of Wat Don Kai Tio School.
Recruitment for temporary employees
Teacher position. 4 positions.
Position to take a qualification exam for agency work.
A. Thai language topic. Number of 1 position.
(Wage rate is 7,000 per month by subtracting 5% from social security fund)
Two. Computer topic. Number 1 position.
(Wage rate 8,500 per month by deducting 5% from the Social Security Fund)
3. 1 position in the performing arts field.
(Wage rate is 7,000 per month by subtracting 5% from social security fund)
4. English box. Number 1 position.
(Wage rate is 7,000 per month by subtracting 5% from social security fund)
Apply from Monday 18 - 24 July 2565
08. Recruitment location for Wat Don Kai Tio school from 8:30 AM to 4:30 PM. Every day (except public holidays) or in the online application system (end of July 24, 2017 at 4.30 pm)
***Online application system will be open from July 18 - 24, 2017
Pre-exam on Wednesday 27 July 2565
Details

https://web.facebook.com/โรงเรียนวัดดอนไก่เตี้ย-428537670990605

 

Wow one can become a millionaire quickly at those wages....

[herfiehandbag]

18 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I'd guess at "Make a wish"

Read by a Thai speaker that can read English letters but doesn't understand English pronunciation and too important for anyone to correct.

 

My opinion,

If you don't have the qualifications to teach in a school in your home country, you shouldn't be teaching here. End of!

"Make a wish" almost certainly - but it is symptomatic of the mess, isn't it?

 

As for your point about qualifications, OK, but with a starting salary of £25,000 a year in the UK you simply are not going to get them here are you? Nor do you need them.

 

The Thai education authorities made a decision to recruit TEFL teachers to fulfil a specific need which they identified in their own education system. They set the requirements I outlined, which would have been enough to ensure adequate TEFL teachers. TEFL are not fully qualified " mainstream" professional teachers, they have a very particular skillset, for a fairly restricted subject. They are not "English teachers" in the sense of teaching English Literature, drama or creative writing, perhaps they are more akin to the "language assistants" who taught some French and German " when I was at school.

[herfiehandbag]

29 minutes ago, ikke1959 said:

Announcement of Wat Don Kai Tio School.
Recruitment for temporary employees
Teacher position. 4 positions.
Position to take a qualification exam for agency work.
A. Thai language topic. Number of 1 position.
(Wage rate is 7,000 per month by subtracting 5% from social security fund)
Two. Computer topic. Number 1 position.
(Wage rate 8,500 per month by deducting 5% from the Social Security Fund)
3. 1 position in the performing arts field.
(Wage rate is 7,000 per month by subtracting 5% from social security fund)
4. English box. Number 1 position.
(Wage rate is 7,000 per month by subtracting 5% from social security fund)
Apply from Monday 18 - 24 July 2565
08. Recruitment location for Wat Don Kai Tio school from 8:30 AM to 4:30 PM. Every day (except public holidays) or in the online application system (end of July 24, 2017 at 4.30 pm)
***Online application system will be open from July 18 - 24, 2017
Pre-exam on Wednesday 27 July 2565
Details

https://web.facebook.com/โรงเรียนวัดดอนไก่เตี้ย-428537670990605

 

Those are advertisements for agency teachers are they not?

 

It doesn't state what if any qualifications are needed - only a need to take an "agency exam". Therefore I would suggest that they are not for qualified teachers.

 

What is more, with those salaries on offer, and the fact that they are looking for staff in the middle of the first semester, I suspect that they are looking for replacements for staff, who after a couple of months on that money decided " to hell with this for a game of soldiers" and walked out.

[coolcarer]

30 minutes ago, herfiehandbag said:

"Make a wish" almost certainly - but it is symptomatic of the mess, isn't it?

 

As for your point about qualifications, OK, but with a starting salary of £25,000 a year in the UK you simply are not going to get them here are you? Nor do you need them.

 

The Thai education authorities made a decision to recruit TEFL teachers to fulfil a specific need which they identified in their own education system. They set the requirements I outlined, which would have been enough to ensure adequate TEFL teachers. TEFL are not fully qualified " mainstream" professional teachers, they have a very particular skillset, for a fairly restricted subject. They are not "English teachers" in the sense of teaching English Literature, drama or creative writing, perhaps they are more akin to the "language assistants" who taught some French and German " when I was at school.

 You're right, you won't find any UK qualified teachers working in a Thai school, at least I don't know any. Any qualified teachers head straight to one of the good International schools where they have an excellent salary (more than UK), benefits and even return home flight tickets yearly for summer breaks. If they have children they get free education at the school for their children too. Of course they also need to have a specialism in the curriculum subjects and year groups they apply for.

[moogradod]

2 hours ago, coolcarer said:

...... Any qualified teachers head straight to one of the good International schools where they have an excellent salary (more than UK), benefits and even return home flight tickets yearly for summer breaks. If they have children they get free education at the school for their children too........

No wonder. This is reflected in the school fees, here in Pattaya there are some schools that demand just for the basic school fee THB 800'000.-- per year.

 

As for the qualification: I have been teaching both English and German (my mothertongue) as a small side job in Japan to some engineers and to a couple of hi-so daughters. I found it very much more difficult to teach my own mothertongue - because it is so natural for me that I did not know what the students needed most and in what order. I never learned German myself the way they needed to. So not only command of the language is of importance, but teaching skills specific to a language teacher as well.

Edited July 29, 2022 by moogradod