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Water heater for kitchen sink


plus7
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Hi,

 

I'm thinking about installing a water heater for a kitchen sink.

On my opinion it must be a low power device to heat water from a power socket and because kitchen doesn't need hot (shower grade 🙂) water but just "very warm"

The lowest power I could find is 3.5 kw. I think it is excessive., is it ?

Maybe you could recommend something?

Thank you in advance.

 

 

 

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It is completely the opposite of what you think, it takes a higher temperature in the kitchen than in the shower, go to a shop where I sell these items and get the very suitable for the kitchen.

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If you want to connect that thing through a normal power outlet then it shouldn't have more than 3500W. Otherwise it draws too much current.

 

With high power you can get lots of water with a high temperature.

With low power you can only heat lots of water to a not so high temperature or just a little water (slow water flow) to a high temperature.

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When I had a business in Florida in the United States, I got a little 1500 watt heater from AliExpress. The water was barely warming up to wash your hands in Florida, Bangkok and in the South it should be fine.

Edited by flbkk
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5 hours ago, Crossy said:

3,500W at 220V is 15.9A, Thai outlets / plugs are theoretically 16A! Something is going to melt. You could install a Schuko outlet / plug which are rather more realistically 16A but I wouldn't.

 

I'd be looking at something like this 8L tanked heater, only uses 1,500W https://www.lazada.co.th/products/dszf-a8-108l-i4023020373-s15624743811.html

 

 

That heater is just 8 liters. Way to little in my opinion.

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Why not install a standard shower heater. Continues warm water and adjustable to your temp wishes. I have such running for many years and it is super. Specially if you are having only a single valve tap (most probably).

The water tank on Lazada spits out only hot water and you would need to install a double valve tap.

Bonus...shows heaters come in various prices and wattages.

 

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You can use a 3500W water heater with a regular outlet, but as long as you keep the heater control at 2/3 (approximately @ 2000W) . Never go for max. Even though the outlets are 16A, but it does not mean that you can use them at that rate (as Crossy pointed at) 
Or just make a special line for water heater from breaker box. 

Edited by The Theory
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We have a kitchen sink water heater installed in the cabinet under the sink. As far as I know it is just a normal shower heater. We have two separate taps, hot water on the left and cold water on the right.

 

Thai guests doing the washing up always go for the left tap (hot water) and the lights dim for half a second when the unit kicks in. It's a bit annoying when they keep turning the tap on and off, washing each dish individually.

 

I don't think I've ever used the hot water tap when washing up.

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I would have to ask...why?

 

We leave stuff to soak and then just rinse........you really don't need hot water in any climate let alone Thailand.

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10 hours ago, plus7 said:

low power device to heat water

Almost any type of water heater device will use a lot of electricity.

 

Regular water heaters in the shower actually use more electricity than an air conditioner.

 

Fortunately people don't use them all night like an air conditioner. 

 

My wife and daughters tend to take long hot showers.

 

I envy the people who have properly installed solar power. 

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3 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

I would have to ask...why?

 

We leave stuff to soak and then just rinse........you really don't need hot water in any climate let alone Thailand.

Simple enough.

 

  We even have a washing machine but so simple just to quickly get it done in the sink. 

 

Even easier if everyone chips in.  It took a few years to train the family to wash there dishes when there done, not just throw it in the sink and wash it later. (Or have mom and dad do it).

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3 hours ago, DD86 said:

Why not install a standard shower heater. Continues warm water and adjustable to your temp wishes. I have such running for many years and it is super. Specially if you are having only a single valve tap (most probably).

The water tank on Lazada spits out only hot water and you would need to install a double valve tap.

Bonus...shows heaters come in various prices and wattages

Not good idea to use a Shower unit for hot water in the kitchen.

 

A unit used for a shower is controlled by the water inlet tap, leaving the outlet, shower head, open for any hot water expansion.

 

If used in a kitchen situation the tap at the sink would be controlling the water, not leaving any safety outlet for the hot water expansion, 

 

Potentially dangerous.  ☹️  

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About 15 years ago I installed a 3,500 kw hot water heater under my kitchen faucet.  A standard steibel eltron shower type water heater.  It works really good.  Scalding hot if desired.  But the hole in the granite countertop had to be widened to fit the new hot/cold faucet in which the base is bigger than a cold only faucet.

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Online sources sell 3000w versions that simply replace the tap you have, and plug into a 220v socket. I've had two. The first lasted about 3 years. Not bad for Chinese import.

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9 hours ago, Crossy said:

3,500W at 220V is 15.9A, Thai outlets / plugs are theoretically 16A! Something is going to melt. You could install a Schuko outlet / plug which are rather more realistically 16A but I wouldn't.

 

I'd be looking at something like this 8L tanked heater, only uses 1,500W https://www.lazada.co.th/products/dszf-a8-108l-i4023020373-s15624743811.html

 

 

A boiler is nice, but with it, you have to install a pressure safety relief valve.

The boiler can handle only a certain amount of pressure. Maybe nowadays it could be included in the boiler?, but doubt it. It is fitted in the water inlet of the boiler. When heating water up, also pressure will go up. and you need to exhaust it.

It is for the first time i ever see a boiler in Thailand (for sale)

Have no clue on what is Ph of the city water in Thailand. If the Ph is sour then with heating you can have more problems with corrosion as the water will stand with higher temperature.

Also the watertank is kept on temp setpoint, meaning it will switch on/off to keep the amount of water in the boiler to setpoint. So it cost more power and therefor money. But you have instantly warm water at first.

The Thai shower items only starts to use power when you use the water.

I can buy boiler but cant even buy such a thing here, only by internet then.

I have a stand in boiler 15 ltr can go to 80 degrees C, 2200 W. With a pressure relieve valve. Ph here is 7-7.1 neutral to slightly base. 

Acid, Ph less then 7 and with higher temperature can give you more problems in (pit)corrosion, also with what is more in the water. Could result to leakages in time then.

Yes the boiler at least should be copper, as well as the pipes and the space for the heating element and temperature sensor. And maybe it is even an alloy copper, all though it makes it more expensive then. I dont see them mentioning anywhere on which Ph it could run.

 

You can now have an installation, called Quooker. It can give you normal water, cold water, warm water, hot water and STEAM. And if you want, even bubbly water could be produced.

OK there is a big price tag on those.

 

You need to use the Thai way heaters 3.5 kW? Replace the wiring with 4mm2 to a RCBO only for that heater. Metal is used in the tap and metal sink, but with the RCBO you are protected. Note the RCBO has a 30 mA switch off. If you want you can ground it, but you need a proper working  ground.

Find another socket and plug , which can stand 15 A gracefully, if you really need to connect it like that, otherwise just put the wiring direct on the heater.

That would be my choice.

 

 

 

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I have installed the 15L model, but I'd definitely go for this one if I had to do it again. Of course I you don't have the space and can't modify the piping you'll be stuck with one of these dumb instant heaters (PEA's worst nighmare, they should ban them...).

Screen Shot 2022-08-07 at 08.18.42.png

Edited by Boomer6969
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If you would like hot water in the kitchen you may also what it in other areas of the house. 14 years ago I had a   properly installed solar powered hotwater system for our house 4 bedroom with 3 bath rooms, kitchen inside and also out side, wash machine. Had single water heaters befor only in the bathrooms. It by far is the best thing I ever done to upgrade the large 225 sq meters house. A little costly but had gone so much use out it and up the elecite bill alot. Have not had any maintence done on since install.

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4 hours ago, Boomer6969 said:

I have installed the 15L model, but I'd definitely go for this one if I had to do it again. Of course I you don't have the space and can't modify the piping you'll be stuck with one of these dumb instant heaters (PEA's worst nighmare, they should ban them...).

Screen Shot 2022-08-07 at 08.18.42.png

Be great for baths. 

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Forget plug in too much amperage needed.  You need to hard wire a good brand shower unit, 5500 - 6500W. with seperate breaker. I am using now, not piping hot but enough to help with greassy dishes. Maybe look at a Mazuma.

Cheers.

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Also, if you need lots of really hot water then don't forget gas water heaters. They really blast out the heat and they're not horribly expensive.

 

Do beware of installation issues with exhaust gasses!!

 

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Thank you all for your comments.

I found out that HomePro not only sell heaters, but also offers wiring if there are no yet suitable wires.

Have you had experience with HomePro tech teams?

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3 hours ago, plus7 said:

Thank you all for your comments.

I found out that HomePro not only sell heaters, but also offers wiring if there are no yet suitable wires.

Have you had experience with HomePro tech teams?

The general experience with HomePro is good, but like any company not every fitting company is as good as every other one. The other point is that they do not do all, possibly none of, their own fitting in house.

Edited by sometimewoodworker
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22 hours ago, Crossy said:

Also, if you need lots of really hot water then don't forget gas water heaters. They really blast out the heat and they're not horribly expensive.

 

Do beware of installation issues with exhaust gasses!!

 

Indeed - they were a prime killer before electric shower heaters became available here - many deaths during colder months upcountry when people covered windows (most had no external exhaust at all).  But they did get hot - normally ran with only one of the three gas jets open here in Bangkok.

 

Not really sure why hot water is desired as normal warm from tap will wash very well and electric drying racks are easily available now to sanitize further without extra plumbing.  

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55 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Indeed - they were a prime killer before electric shower heaters became available here - many deaths during colder months upcountry when people covered windows (most had no external exhaust at all).  But they did get hot - normally ran with only one of the three gas jets open here in Bangkok.

 

Not really sure why hot water is desired as normal warm from tap will wash very well and electric drying racks are easily available now to sanitize further without extra plumbing.  

That"s why Thai use excessive amounts of dish washing soap. They even wash up with the soapy sponge under running water.

My personal experience....once you have warm running water in the kitchen, you never go back to baaw laan.

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Why I need hot water at kitchen sink:

I have a big family, no dishwashing machine. Wife has irritations from washing liquids and has to use gloves. Sometimes children do it, but without pleasure because some plates are greasy.

With hot water I would have pleasure washing dishes sometimes too.

 

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On 8/6/2022 at 10:18 PM, Beachcomber said:

Not good idea to use a Shower unit for hot water in the kitchen.

 

Potentially dangerous.  ☹️  

Beachcomber, thank you very much for your underestimated comment. Initially I didn't understand it completely and skipped it in my mind.

Only now I realized what you actually meant.

Thank you, thank you!

 

 

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10 hours ago, plus7 said:

Thank you all for your comments.

I found out that HomePro not only sell heaters, but also offers wiring if there are no yet suitable wires.

Have you had experience with HomePro tech teams?

You just demand on having at least 4 mm2 wiring, direct from RCBO in fuse box to your heater. I would say forget about plugs and sockets and connect direct on device.

Also again demand a RCBO, with a 30 mA switch off value.

The older fuse on which you have connected the socket, will be replaced by the new one. The wiring has to be taken off, so switch off main power.

You are powerless for that in your whole house, takes tops 10 minutes.

Always measure first on fuse if power is indeed gone, well "the guys" should know,not.

I dont know if more sockets are on that same group and what devices are on it. In that case:

Better make a new group only for heater with new drawn wiring. See if you have the space in your fusebox and what is used or not.

I know Thai are easy in connecting and placing, but done well?  

 

A RCBO is a fuse included with a differential measuring device between the live and neutral wire.

In Amp , what goes in the device "also goes out" by the 2 wires. if there is a difference between them, then it shuts down at 30 mA difference. It means then the power finds another way of going round and you have problems with device or wiring. At least you are protected from electrocution.

 

Those have a test button extra on the device. So you know, can see, it is a RCBO

You demand a B20 A fuse on the RCBO, if you are having a 3.3 kW device.

Thailand has mostly C20 but there are B20 as well, find it. They are safer.

Switch action is faster at shortcut.

You are the customer, you pay, demand.

Electricity kills in a jiffy.

 

Example RCBO: 

image.png.be4f1b587b647cbd087aab7a53ed3d29.png

You see the notations, this one is a B10 and you see 30mA which is differential protecting.

You see, with this one, the yellow testbutton. It can be any color.

Also this one is for a DIN rail mounting, so your fuse box MUST have that.

This is a dinrail: 

 RoHS Compliant 35x7.5mm Steel Slotted DIN Rail

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10 hours ago, xtrnuno41 said:

You just demand on having at least 4 mm2 wiring, direct from RCBO in fuse box to your heater. I would say forget about plugs and sockets and connect direct on device.

Also again demand a RCBO, with a 30 mA switch off value.

 

xtrnuno41

Thank you for your comment. As I found out I need a water heater device, not a shower heater device. Those devices are 6kw.

I have a spare 30ma RCBO and wires for never used hot water wire in "guest bathroom".

Do you think those wires could be connected somehow ?

It is 2-story house RCBO on 1st floor, kitchen on ground.

They could say pooling a whole wire from up to down is problematic or "not possible, sir".

 

 

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