WRLife medical insurance - experiences?

[QuantumQuandry]

On 1/13/2024 at 11:35 AM, JBChiangRai said:

I can understand why people with WR Life policies want it to be legitimate, but it clearly isn't.

 

Maybe it's not as clear as you think, though.

 

I have talked to local brokers who do NOT endorse WRLIfe and do not sell WRLife and are generally disincentivized to recommend it as they only sell Thai policies...and they don't endorse WRLife, saying that it's too good to be true...but even they say that they have been paying out for all legitimate claims.  I have not found a single broker that has said otherwise, in fact.

 

I don't have WRLife.  I don't know if they are going to collapse at some point.  However, it does seem to me that some of you guys are a little too sure of yourselves, without much actual evidence to point one way or the other.

 

I don't blame you for being skeptical.  I think that's smart.  But you might want to take a step back before being too sure of yourselves.

[scubascuba3]

3 hours ago, QuantumQuandry said:

 

Maybe it's not as clear as you think, though.

 

I have talked to local brokers who do NOT endorse WRLIfe and do not sell WRLife and are generally disincentivized to recommend it as they only sell Thai policies...and they don't endorse WRLife, saying that it's too good to be true...but even they say that they have been paying out for all legitimate claims.  I have not found a single broker that has said otherwise, in fact.

 

I don't have WRLife.  I don't know if they are going to collapse at some point.  However, it does seem to me that some of you guys are a little too sure of yourselves, without much actual evidence to point one way or the other.

 

I don't blame you for being skeptical.  I think that's smart.  But you might want to take a step back before being too sure of yourselves.

Isn't it obvious from the financials? they will payout until not enough money left

[QuantumQuandry]

6 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Isn't it obvious from the financials? they will payout until not enough money left

 

1.  WRLife's financials are more concerning so the risk is clearly higher but lots of insurance companies went bankrupt during Covid so it's a risk, to a greater or lesser degree, with all companies.  Don't get me wrong, it is absolutely more concerning with WRLife, due to their financials.  But...when will they fail?  Will it be in your lifetime?  Will it be when you need them?  That's not so obvious, to me.

 

2.  Where I start to feel like some people are being rash (and disingenuous, really) is saying they won't pay claims, period.  Or they won't pay your next claim.  Or saying they cover pre-existing.  Or talking about their reviews when their reviews are about the same as every other health insurance company.

 

3.  I don't see WRLife as a 'scam' and April, for example, as 'legit'.  I see it as different gambling options with no sure thing.

Self insure -> Pay nothing.  Gamble on whether or not your lifetime medical spend will be higher or lower than the savings.

April insurance -> Pay more.  High (but not absolute) chance they will pay your next claim.  High (but not absolute) chance they will be around for the next 10-20 years.

WRLife insurance -> Pay less.  High (but somewhat lower) chance they will pay your next claim.  Lower chance they will be around for the next 10-20 years.  Let me break that last bit down.

 

So what happens if WRLife does eventually run out of money?  The chances they will run out of money right when you have a claim seems pretty low, to me.  But that's not the real risk, imo.  The risk is that if you want to continue coverage, you will have to switch companies.  That has two downsides.  1, that you may be too old to get covered at that point.  And 2, any claims you did have will now be pre-existing conditions.

 

I am not trying to endorse WRLife.  I am trying to evaluate the practical side of the risk/reward.  Please, feel free to bring up any pro/con's I haven't mentioned.

 

Edited January 19 by QuantumQuandry

[brewsterbudgen]

13 minutes ago, QuantumQuandry said:

 

1.  WRLife's financials are more concerning so the risk is clearly higher but lots of insurance companies went bankrupt during Covid so it's a risk, to a greater or lesser degree, with all companies.  Don't get me wrong, it is absolutely more concerning with WRLife, due to their financials.  But...when will they fail?  Will it be in your lifetime?  Will it be when you need them?  That's not so obvious, to me.

 

2.  Where I start to feel like some people are being rash (and disingenuous, really) is saying they won't pay claims, period.  Or they won't pay your next claim.  Or saying they cover pre-existing.  Or talking about their reviews when their reviews are about the same as every other health insurance company.

 

3.  I don't see WRLife as a 'scam' and April, for example, as 'legit'.  I see it as different gambling options with no sure thing.

Self insure -> Pay nothing.  Gamble on whether or not your lifetime medical spend will be higher or lower than the savings.

April insurance -> Pay more.  High (but not absolute) chance they will pay your next claim.  High (but not absolute) chance they will be around for the next 10-20 years.

WRLife insurance -> Pay less.  High (but somewhat lower) chance they will pay your next claim.  Lower chance they will be around for the next 10-20 years.  Let me break that last bit down.

 

So what happens if WRLife does eventually run out of money?  The chances they will run out of money right when you have a claim seems pretty low, to me.  But that's not the real risk, imo.  The risk is that if you want to continue coverage, you will have to switch companies.  That has two downsides.  1, that you may be too old to get covered at that point.  And 2, any claims you did have will now be pre-existing conditions.

 

I am not trying to endorse WRLife.  I am trying to evaluate the practical side of the risk/reward.  Please, feel free to bring up any pro/con's I haven't mentioned.

 

 

Good post.

 

WRLife are signing up clients at a fairly rapid rate, understandably, so if it all goes pear-shaped in the next few years/decades we'll know about it.

 

[BestB]

3 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

 

Good post.

 

WRLife are signing up clients at a fairly rapid rate, understandably, so if it all goes pear-shaped in the next few years/decades we'll know about it.

 

Let’s do simple maths.

WR along with underwriter total capital under 2 million USD.

 

max yearly payout is 200 000 USD, so they can cover 10 people if all 10 were to make max claims 

 

1 year later they sold policies to 1000 people and raised capital by another 1 million USD.

now liabilities is 20 million USD , Money in the bank 3 million USD, deduct running cost of at least 10% , so 2.7 million , liabilities remain 20 million 

 

claims were only 10% ie 2 million , money left in the bank 700000

 

another year sold another 1000 policies , raised another million , liabilities now at 40 million, cash in the bank 1.7 million. Less same 10% running costs and less same 10% and we are now into minus numbers 

 

first 3 years and company already into negative, of course picture changes when claims are not paid or only selectively 

 

what rings bells for me personally besides the financials is fake positive reviews or feedback. Relying solely on google reviews , negative provide policy numbers , positive do not even name hospitals but a general praise

 

recall reading review on Facebook from a guy who claimed when he turned 59 his existing policy refused to renew so he changed over to WR and has been super happy. When he was questioned which company and policy refused to renew at age 59, he stoped replying 

 

German broker in jomtien pushing WR when asked what was their capital and Thai registration , no reply 

 

and finally , again, why not offer policies to Thai people if they are a Thai registered business  or operating legally in Thailand ? If anything Thai customers would be cheaper as hospitals charge less. 
 

as someone has claimed , they pay from the premiums, so if your claim during the time bank has money , you get paid, if not, then either ignored or denied. 
 

PS. Sorry to say but someone comparing April to WR is beyond idiotic. It’s like comparing mouse to an elephant. April registered capital is hundreds of millions of euros, over 150000 policies, decades in business , over 2000 employees and over a billion euros turnover 

Edited January 19 by BestB

[brewsterbudgen]

21 minutes ago, BestB said:

Let’s do simple maths.

WR along with underwriter total capital under 2 million USD.

 

max yearly payout is 200 000 USD, so they can cover 10 people if all 10 were to make max claims 

 

1 year later they sold policies to 1000 people and raised capital by another 1 million USD.

now liabilities is 20 million USD , Money in the bank 3 million USD, deduct running cost of at least 10% , so 2.7 million , liabilities remain 20 million 

 

claims were only 10% ie 2 million , money left in the bank 700000

 

another year sold another 1000 policies , raised another million , liabilities now at 40 million, cash in the bank 1.7 million. Less same 10% running costs and less same 10% and we are now into minus numbers 

 

first 3 years and company already into negative, of course picture changes when claims are not paid or only selectively 

 

what rings bells for me personally besides the financials is fake positive reviews or feedback. Relying solely on google reviews , negative provide policy numbers , positive do not even name hospitals but a general praise

 

recall reading review on Facebook from a guy who claimed when he turned 59 his existing policy refused to renew so he changed over to WR and has been super happy. When he was questioned which company and policy refused to renew at age 59, he stoped replying 

 

German broker in jomtien pushing WR when asked what was their capital and Thai registration , no reply 

 

and finally , again, why not offer policies to Thai people if they are a Thai registered business  or operating legally in Thailand ? If anything Thai customers would be cheaper as hospitals charge less. 
 

as someone has claimed , they pay from the premiums, so if your claim during the time bank has money , you get paid, if not, then either ignored or denied. 
 

PS. Sorry to say but someone comparing April to WR is beyond idiotic. It’s like comparing mouse to an elephant. April registered capital is hundreds of millions of euros, over 150000 policies, decades in business , over 2000 employees and over a billion euros turnover 

 

So you're not a WRLife customer then?

[scubascuba3]

55 minutes ago, BestB said:

Let’s do simple maths.

WR along with underwriter total capital under 2 million USD.

 

max yearly payout is 200 000 USD, so they can cover 10 people if all 10 were to make max claims 

 

1 year later they sold policies to 1000 people and raised capital by another 1 million USD.

now liabilities is 20 million USD , Money in the bank 3 million USD, deduct running cost of at least 10% , so 2.7 million , liabilities remain 20 million 

 

claims were only 10% ie 2 million , money left in the bank 700000

 

another year sold another 1000 policies , raised another million , liabilities now at 40 million, cash in the bank 1.7 million. Less same 10% running costs and less same 10% and we are now into minus numbers 

 

first 3 years and company already into negative, of course picture changes when claims are not paid or only selectively 

 

what rings bells for me personally besides the financials is fake positive reviews or feedback. Relying solely on google reviews , negative provide policy numbers , positive do not even name hospitals but a general praise

 

recall reading review on Facebook from a guy who claimed when he turned 59 his existing policy refused to renew so he changed over to WR and has been super happy. When he was questioned which company and policy refused to renew at age 59, he stoped replying 

 

German broker in jomtien pushing WR when asked what was their capital and Thai registration , no reply 

 

and finally , again, why not offer policies to Thai people if they are a Thai registered business  or operating legally in Thailand ? If anything Thai customers would be cheaper as hospitals charge less. 
 

as someone has claimed , they pay from the premiums, so if your claim during the time bank has money , you get paid, if not, then either ignored or denied. 
 

PS. Sorry to say but someone comparing April to WR is beyond idiotic. It’s like comparing mouse to an elephant. April registered capital is hundreds of millions of euros, over 150000 policies, decades in business , over 2000 employees and over a billion euros turnover 

Another risk of being "insured" by them is by the time a customer wants to switch elsewhere it may be too late being over the age limit.

 

Personally if i wanted to seal the deal on insurance I'd pick a non thai company

[BestB]

40 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

 

So you're not a WRLife customer then?

I thought I made it clear before that I was not . Was interested but after doing some due diligence stayed away. Spoke to 3 of their brokers and all 3 were incapable of providing clear answers so started digging myself.

 

brokers make a proud claim that it’s underwriter is a UK company , where in reality it’s same, same owner.  
 

And what sealed it for me is when I was told it’s best for sick people, if I was healthy and fit best I look elsewhere. No health insurance company in their right mind would advise healthy person to look elsewhere while sick person to take their policy 

[BestB]

15 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Another risk of being "insured" by them is by the time a customer wants to switch elsewhere it may be too late being over the age limit.

 

Personally if i wanted to seal the deal on insurance I'd pick a non thai company

Considering their advertising and target market, their customers will not have the means or the knowledge to take them on.

 

Also WR Is not a Thai company, but supposedly UK company, but you right. It is best to take out a policy from a reputable company with decades in business and funds rather than individually owned shop with less than minimal capital and questionable set up from start to finish.

 

insurance companies and banks insure their liabilities also through a 3rd party by purchasing reinsurance yet WR insures you  and then reinsures themselves by themselves  backed by themselves by their own company which has even less registered capital.

[scubascuba3]

On 8/9/2022 at 12:33 PM, jerrymahoney said:

So it appears to you.

Not heard from you in a while, you still a WRLife fan based on other views above?

[QuantumQuandry]

7 hours ago, BestB said:

PS. Sorry to say but someone comparing April to WR is beyond idiotic.

 

You sound like you have a real axe to grind.  Sorry you didn't understand the analogy but do carry on.

[BestB]

15 minutes ago, QuantumQuandry said:

 

You sound like you have a real axe to grind.  Sorry you didn't understand the analogy but do carry on.

Case in point , comparing a mouse to an elephant is simply idiotic.

 

[QuantumQuandry]

4 hours ago, BestB said:

Case in point , comparing a mouse to an elephant is simply idiotic.

 

There's lots of ways to use a mouse and an elephant for comparison purposes.

 

For example, your reasoning capacity falls somewhere between them...

Edited January 19 by QuantumQuandry

[jerrymahoney]

13 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Not heard from you in a while, you still a WRLife fan based on other views above?

From the script for Casablanca (1942) Humphrey Bogart as Rick Blaine

 

Rick: I'm not fighting for anything anymore except myself.
I'm the only cause I'm interested in.
 

[paddypower]

On 1/18/2024 at 4:37 AM, scubascuba3 said:

Check your policy doc with exclusions

you're my man! I have heard from within the industry that part of their sales pitch is - ''don't worry about pre-existing conditions''. which is out and out fraudulent marketing. not only that, but completely immoral. If true, can you imagine the heartbreak of one of us submitting a claim for a pre-exisiting condition you did not disclose.?  My wife disclosed floaters in the eyes, on her app. 20 years ago. Claims for 2 eye procedures for floaters have been denied - rightly.

[paddypower]

On 1/17/2024 at 11:19 PM, BestB said:

Well that is true as they clearly tell you so

 

On 1/15/2024 at 6:55 PM, Topprofile said:

This is just not true.
I have 2 Thai citizen on my policy. No questions asked when signing up

 its not what the broker tells you when you sign up & hand over you dosh, its what the insurance company tells you, when you submit a claim.

[scubascuba3]

3 hours ago, paddypower said:

 

 its not what the broker tells you when you sign up & hand over you dosh, its what the insurance company tells you, when you submit a claim.

Yep, that means less than zero in court, need to see it in black and white

[brewsterbudgen]

5 hours ago, paddypower said:

you're my man! I have heard from within the industry that part of their sales pitch is - ''don't worry about pre-existing conditions''. which is out and out fraudulent marketing. not only that, but completely immoral. If true, can you imagine the heartbreak of one of us submitting a claim for a pre-exisiting condition you did not disclose.?  My wife disclosed floaters in the eyes, on her app. 20 years ago. Claims for 2 eye procedures for floaters have been denied - rightly.

Surely this applies to all health insurers not just WRLife?

[BestB]

On 1/25/2024 at 2:59 PM, brewsterbudgen said:

Surely this applies to all health insurers not just WRLife?

There is huge difference between disclosing pre existing condition and being aware it is not covered or has a loading and being told it is covered after a certain period of time but when you claim get denied 😉

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, BestB said:

There is huge difference between disclosing pre existing condition and being aware it is not covered or has a loading and being told it is covered after a certain period of time but when you claim get denied 😉

 

Without reading the whole thread, WRlife have done that? Denied a claim that they previously said would be covered?

 

If that is the case, can post a link to that particular post or comment if that's handy?

[scubascuba3]

1 hour ago, NanLaew said:

 

Without reading the whole thread, WRlife have done that? Denied a claim that they previously said would be covered?

 

If that is the case, can post a link to that particular post or comment if that's handy?

You think their financials look sound? who is their regulator? if you wanted to take them to court where would that be?

[BestB]

2 hours ago, NanLaew said:

 

Without reading the whole thread, WRlife have done that? Denied a claim that they previously said would be covered?

 

If that is the case, can post a link to that particular post or comment if that's handy?

They advertise that pre existing conditions  covered after some period. Then pile of reviews claimed either ignored or denied. WR replies because pre existing condition pretty much to any review and many reviewers adding their policy number.

 

one example broken arm and they reply pre existing condition.

 

only need to read and pay attention 😉

 

and again, I was told if I was healthy best I look elsewhere but if I am sick then WR is for me , what do you suggest it means ?

[BestB]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

You think their financials look sound? who is their regulator? if you wanted to take them to court where would that be?

In fairness, they are listed on Nevis site, with a registered capital of 1 million USD

Putting aside laughable capital, Nevis is American, WR life is supposedly UK company, so makes you wonder why are they not registered with FCA or PRA and indeed, where do you file a complaint? and what authority would American regulator have over UK company? And what is Thai company that operates WR life?

Edited January 27 by BestB

[xxeo]

On 1/27/2024 at 5:08 PM, BestB said:

...Nevis is American...

With 261 square kilometres (101 sq mi) of territory, and roughly 50,000 inhabitants, St. Kitts and Nevis is the smallest sovereign state in the Western Hemisphere, in both area and population, as well as the world's smallest sovereign federation.^[1]    ... quoted from wikipedia

[NanLaew]

On 1/27/2024 at 4:29 PM, scubascuba3 said:

On 1/27/2024 at 3:11 PM, NanLaew said:

 

Without reading the whole thread, WRlife have done that? Denied a claim that they previously said would be covered?

 

If that is the case, can post a link to that particular post or comment if that's handy?

You think their financials look sound? who is their regulator? if you wanted to take them to court where would that be?

 

I didn't ask your opinion on their legitimacy, thanks.

 

I asked @BestB if he knows if WRlife have bottled on any claims?

[NanLaew]

On 1/27/2024 at 5:26 PM, BestB said:

They advertise that pre existing conditions  covered after some period. Then pile of reviews claimed either ignored or denied. WR replies because pre existing condition pretty much to any review and many reviewers adding their policy number.

 

one example broken arm and they reply pre existing condition.

 

only need to read and pay attention 😉

 

and again, I was told if I was healthy best I look elsewhere but if I am sick then WR is for me , what do you suggest it means ?

 

Thanks for that. Where is the "pile of reviews"?

 

[NanLaew]

4 hours ago, xxeo said:

With 261 square kilometres (101 sq mi) of territory, and roughly 50,000 inhabitants, St. Kitts and Nevis is the smallest sovereign state in the Western Hemisphere, in both area and population, as well as the world's smallest sovereign federation.^[1]    ... quoted from wikipedia

 

Relevance?

[scubascuba3]

7 hours ago, NanLaew said:

 

I didn't ask your opinion on their legitimacy, thanks.

 

 

Couldn't care less if you asked or not, your knowledge on the subject is weak 

[BestB]

11 hours ago, NanLaew said:

 

Thanks for that. Where is the "pile of reviews"?

 

Google is your friend 👍

[BestB]

15 hours ago, xxeo said:

With 261 square kilometres (101 sq mi) of territory, and roughly 50,000 inhabitants, St. Kitts and Nevis is the smallest sovereign state in the Western Hemisphere, in both area and population, as well as the world's smallest sovereign federation.^[1]    ... quoted from wikipedia

Once you get a clue, come back 👍