Trump asks for a 'special master' to review Mar-a-Lago evidence

[FritsSikkink]

On 8/24/2022 at 5:54 PM, mikebike said:

Innocent until PROVEN guilty. Has everyone gone nuts?

"DoJ investigators justified their search on 8 August based on the fact that some boxes of sensitive documents previously retrieved from Trump in January contained classified information

They described their work as a criminal investigation based on evidence that further documents were being stored at the Trump residence, with improper security and in violation of three federal laws"

As it happened: Donald Trump Mar-a-Lago search court papers released - BBC News

When, if ever, you will see that he is a con man?

Edited August 26, 2022 by FritsSikkink

[ozimoron]

On 8/26/2022 at 8:16 AM, simple1 said:

IMO practicing the Christian faith and delaring nationalsim are contradictions. It appears to me, Cristianity, at the very least the evangelical movement in the USA, has been throughly corrupted by politics.

 

So long as Catholic Canon Law is permitted as a parrallel legal system in Western democracies, IMO should not be provided with charity / religious order status, must solely abide to Common Law.

This originates from religions early history as a form of government. Now, fundamentalists want to bring that back.

[Bkk Brian]

The federal judge who bounced back this motion and appeared to join other legal experts in their bafflement over what specifically Trump was looking for gave Trump and his team till the 26th August to re submit....Oh well more B.S. from him

[Bkk Brian]

Looks like this delay tactic may go through:

 

Judge plans to appoint special master in Trump records case

 

 A federal judge in Florida told the Justice Department on Saturday to provide her with more specific information about the classified records removed from former President Donald Trump’s Florida estate and said it was her “preliminary intent” to appoint a special master in the case.

 

The special master appointment, if it happens, is unlikely to significantly affect the direction of the Justice Department investigation, though it’s possible an outside review of the documents could slow the probe down.

 

https://apnews.com/article/florida-government-and-politics-1cc6c63010da10a19fb8cfc8595ffe38

[EVENKEEL]

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/27/us/politics/trump-special-master-judge-cannon.html

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/judge-signals-support-for-special-master-to-review-some-trump-records-fbi-seized/ar-AA11aVQX

 

AFlorida federal judge Saturday indicated she was inclined to appoint a special master to review some of the documents the FBI seized earlier this month from former President Donald Trump’s Florida home as part of a national security-related criminal investigation.

[ozimoron]

2 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/27/us/politics/trump-special-master-judge-cannon.html

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/judge-signals-support-for-special-master-to-review-some-trump-records-fbi-seized/ar-AA11aVQX

 

AFlorida federal judge Saturday indicated she was inclined to appoint a special master to review some of the documents the FBI seized earlier this month from former President Donald Trump’s Florida home as part of a national security-related criminal investigation.

They filed in a county where there was only one judge, a Trump appointed judge.

Edited August 28, 2022 by ozimoron

[ozimoron]

The U.S. intelligence community will evaluate the potential national security risks stemming from former President Donald Trump’s possession of top-secret documents at his Mar-a-Lago residence, Director of National Intelligence Avril Haines told top lawmakers.

 

In a letter obtained by POLITICO and dated Friday, Haines told House Oversight Committee Chair Carolyn Maloney (D-N.Y.) and House Intelligence Committee Chair Adam Schiff (D-Calif.) that her office will lead an “assessment of the potential risk to national security that would result from the disclosure of the relevant documents.”

 

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/08/27/intel-officials-national-security-fallout-trumps-mar-a-lago-documents-00054006

[KanchanaburiGuy]

With the information that has come out subsequently........... that classified materials were mixed in boxes with newspapers, magazines, and other detritus............ the possibility that protected, privileged material may be mixed in among the detritus also......... is a realistic possibility. Therefore, asking to have a Special Master review the documents is a fair and reasonable request.

 

Ultimately, the Special Master protects both parties, not just one. 

 

If the Special Master is able to find and remove materials the FBI/DOJ should not have had access to........... they also cannot have the case tossed because they had access things they shouldn't have.

 

---------------

 

As to the significance of the granting judge being a "Trump Appointee".........

 

...........I'd've thought people would have let that particular prejudice go............ after the walloping Trump took from a bunch of "Trump Appointees"............ when his team was contesting ballot counts and procedures, right after the election!

 

Having gone 1 for 61........... does not suggest Trump can count on any kind of "Judicial Gratitude" to win the day! (Not all those were Trump Appointees, of course----But many were.)

 

Lol

[ozimoron]

14 minutes ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

With the information that has come out subsequently........... that classified materials were mixed in boxes with newspapers, magazines, and other detritus............ the possibility that protected, privileged material may be mixed in among the detritus also......... is a realistic possibility. Therefore, asking to have a Special Master review the documents is a fair and reasonable request.

 

Ultimately, the Special Master protects both parties, not just one. 

 

If the Special Master is able to find and remove materials the FBI/DOJ should not have had access to........... they also cannot have the case tossed because they had access things they shouldn't have.

 

---------------

 

As to the significance of the granting judge being a "Trump Appointee".........

 

...........I'd've thought people would have let that particular prejudice go............ after the walloping Trump took from a bunch of "Trump Appointees"............ when his team was contesting ballot counts and procedures, right after the election!

 

Having gone 1 for 61........... does not suggest Trump can count on any kind of "Judicial Gratitude" to win the day! (Not all those were Trump Appointees, of course----But many were.)

 

Lol

It's a delaying tactic designed to get past the mid terms.

 

The special master appointment, if it happens, is unlikely to significantly affect the direction of the Justice Department investigation, though it’s possible an outside review of the documents could slow the probe down.

 

https://apnews.com/article/florida-government-and-politics-1cc6c63010da10a19fb8cfc8595ffe38?utm_source=homepage&utm_medium=TopNews&utm_campaign=position_5

Edited August 28, 2022 by ozimoron

[candide]

1 hour ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

With the information that has come out subsequently........... that classified materials were mixed in boxes with newspapers, magazines, and other detritus............ the possibility that protected, privileged material may be mixed in among the detritus also......... is a realistic possibility. Therefore, asking to have a Special Master review the documents is a fair and reasonable request.

 

Ultimately, the Special Master protects both parties, not just one. 

 

If the Special Master is able to find and remove materials the FBI/DOJ should not have had access to........... they also cannot have the case tossed because they had access things they shouldn't have.

 

---------------

 

As to the significance of the granting judge being a "Trump Appointee".........

 

...........I'd've thought people would have let that particular prejudice go............ after the walloping Trump took from a bunch of "Trump Appointees"............ when his team was contesting ballot counts and procedures, right after the election!

 

Having gone 1 for 61........... does not suggest Trump can count on any kind of "Judicial Gratitude" to win the day! (Not all those were Trump Appointees, of course----But many were.)

 

Lol

This is not comparable. There's a difference between interpreting the law in a more or less different way based on political orientation, and accepting ridiculous and unsubstantiated claims such as in Trump's Big Lie campaign.

[riclag]

7 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/27/us/politics/trump-special-master-judge-cannon.html

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/judge-signals-support-for-special-master-to-review-some-trump-records-fbi-seized/ar-AA11aVQX

 

AFlorida federal judge Saturday indicated she was inclined to appoint a special master to review some of the documents the FBI seized earlier this month from former President Donald Trump’s Florida home as part of a national security-related criminal investigation.

Common sense , fair is fair!

Are they conservative?

[KanchanaburiGuy]

5 hours ago, ozimoron said:

It's a delaying tactic designed to get past the mid terms.

 

The special master appointment, if it happens, is unlikely to significantly affect the direction of the Justice Department investigation, though it’s possible an outside review of the documents could slow the probe down.

 

https://apnews.com/article/florida-government-and-politics-1cc6c63010da10a19fb8cfc8595ffe38?utm_source=homepage&utm_medium=TopNews&utm_campaign=position_5

Yes, that's what some people are guessing, while having no clue whatsoever if it is true.

 

Meanwhile, in the post you responded to, I made no attempt to read his mind and pretend I know WHY he has requested one............. except to point out that given what we DO know, it's a reasonable and valid request.

[KanchanaburiGuy]

3 hours ago, candide said:

This is not comparable. There's a difference between interpreting the law in a more or less different way based on political orientation, and accepting ridiculous and unsubstantiated claims such as in Trump's Big Lie campaign.

Or.......... judges believe they got the job because they have integrity. So they're not prepared to be the marionettes that some so blithely insinuate they are.

[ozimoron]

3 hours ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

Yes, that's what some people are guessing, while having no clue whatsoever if it is true.

 

Meanwhile, in the post you responded to, I made no attempt to read his mind and pretend I know WHY he has requested one............. except to point out that given what we DO know, it's a reasonable and valid request.

If we can't know that it's a delaying tactic then we also can't know if the request is reasonable. That's an assumption, no different. We also DO know that the tactic won't change the FBI investigation in the tiniest bit. Any documents which either fall under the PRA or which indicate any form of criminality (save for reasonable attorney client privilege, i.e. correspondence between attorney and Trump) will be turned over to the FBI.

[ozimoron]

The appointment of a special master would mean that they had to find someone who has the highest level of clearance to handle such documents in a secure facility. The problem, however, is that there is no "special master" for executive privilege cases. The Justice Department is likely to appeal the decision to a higher court that will overrule Judge Aileen Cannon, and likely, publicly humiliate her.

 

https://www.rawstory.com/trump-judge-pandering-obstruction-charges/

[bendejo]

16 hours ago, ozimoron said:

It's a delaying tactic designed to get past the mid terms.

It's just one move.  Overall I think there will still be unresolved parts to the Orange Infamy into the 2030s.  There could be a MAGA gov't after the next presidential election determination to dole out plenary pardons or DT could die in the meantime, but don't you think DT would relish being at the top of the news another 8 years? 

Delay is all they have.  DT has been running frivolous lawsuits for decades, delay is his go-to tactic.

Hopefully at least one of the other criminal cases will succeed.

 

 

[tilaceer]

16 hours ago, riclag said:

Common sense , fair is fair!

Are they conservative?

Perhaps not so fair.
 

 

[stevenl]

17 hours ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

Yes, that's what some people are guessing, while having no clue whatsoever if it is true.

 

Meanwhile, in the post you responded to, I made no attempt to read his mind and pretend I know WHY he has requested one............. except to point out that given what we DO know, it's a reasonable and valid request.

All trump has done in the past and is doing now is delaying his courtcases. 'Having no clue whatsoever' is completely of the mark.

[FritsSikkink]

On 8/24/2022 at 4:54 PM, KanchanaburiGuy said:

From the very beginning, concern was expressed that there could be privileged Attorney/Client documents among those taken. 

 

One of the jobs of a Special Master is to confirm that the FBI/DOJ are blocked from reading communications they are not supposed to.

 

If Trump told his attorney things in confidence........... about illegal or questionable activities........ and the prosecutors get a chance to see that.......... the Court could hold that Trump's 5th Amendment Right to not Self-Incriminate.......... has been violated. 

 

Seeing that there were concerns about Privileged Communications being expressed from the very beginning............

 

Asking for a Special Master makes perfect sense. What doesn't make sense is why it took so long to ask for one!

 

Is it possible that waiting so long to ask for a Special Master was a tactic?

 

Is it possible they can now claim the evidence has been tainted........ because the prosecution had so much time to see a variety of things they "shouldn't have?"

 

If indeed the documents taken include Privileged Communications.......... having a Special Master review them before disseminating them.......... is both sensible and appropriate. 

 

In fact, it is so sensible and appropriate............ that it should have been done much earlier!

 

(Indeed, it is SO sensible and appropriate that........ as soon the concern about Privileged Commications came up............ a clever prosecutor would have insisted upon it himself!)

Who will be the special master who will be able to read top secret documents? Putin maybe?

[Chomper Higgot]

On 8/28/2022 at 8:00 AM, EVENKEEL said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/27/us/politics/trump-special-master-judge-cannon.html

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/judge-signals-support-for-special-master-to-review-some-trump-records-fbi-seized/ar-AA11aVQX

 

AFlorida federal judge Saturday indicated she was inclined to appoint a special master to review some of the documents the FBI seized earlier this month from former President Donald Trump’s Florida home as part of a national security-related criminal investigation.

A preliminary ruling she has made without giving the DOJ chance to file a counter brief.

 

The DOJ will appeal.

[ozimoron]

"What I wonder about is why this could go on for almost two years and, less than 100 days before the election, suddenly we’re talking about this rather than the economy or inflation or even the student loan program," Blunt complained. The answer, of course, is that Trump refused to turn over the documents for the last 14 months.

 

https://www.rawstory.com/republican-sunday-shows-election-fears/

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

A preliminary ruling she has made without giving the DOJ chance to file a counter brief.

 

The DOJ will appeal.

I don't know where they will find someone who understands the applicable laws regarding executive privilege and has a security clearance that goes way beyond TS.  I have no problem with such a person being appointed special master if someone can be found, but the difficulty in finding such a person should not be allowed to slow down the investigation.

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, heybruce said:

I don't know where they will find someone who understands the applicable laws regarding executive privilege and has a security clearance that goes way beyond TS.  I have no problem with such a person being appointed special master if someone can be found, but the difficulty in finding such a person should not be allowed to slow down the investigation.

First things first.

 

The judge made a decision before hearing from the DOJ.

 

That is a very clear breach of judicial process.

[heybruce]

On 8/27/2022 at 11:42 PM, KanchanaburiGuy said:

With the information that has come out subsequently........... that classified materials were mixed in boxes with newspapers, magazines, and other detritus............ the possibility that protected, privileged material may be mixed in among the detritus also......... is a realistic possibility. Therefore, asking to have a Special Master review the documents is a fair and reasonable request.

 

Ultimately, the Special Master protects both parties, not just one. 

 

If the Special Master is able to find and remove materials the FBI/DOJ should not have had access to........... they also cannot have the case tossed because they had access things they shouldn't have.

 

---------------

 

As to the significance of the granting judge being a "Trump Appointee".........

 

...........I'd've thought people would have let that particular prejudice go............ after the walloping Trump took from a bunch of "Trump Appointees"............ when his team was contesting ballot counts and procedures, right after the election!

 

Having gone 1 for 61........... does not suggest Trump can count on any kind of "Judicial Gratitude" to win the day! (Not all those were Trump Appointees, of course----But many were.)

 

Lol

"the possibility that protected, privileged material may be mixed in among the detritus also"

 

Does Executive Privilege still exist for Trump after has ceased to be the executive?  I think the courts have ruled that it exists only with the current President, not the former.

 

"The answer is complicated, but the outcome, in the case of Donald J. Trump v. Bennie G. Thompson (the head of the House Select Committee investigating the Jan. 6 insurrection), should be clear: The views of the incumbent president outweigh the position of his predecessor."  https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/11/12/biden-nixon-trump-executive-privilege/

Edited August 29, 2022 by heybruce

[Chomper Higgot]

Also, what right has Trump to demand a a special master to review documents that were not legally his?

 

He stole the documents and refused to return them, they are ‘stolen property’.

 

There aren’t his to have any rights over.

[ozimoron]

“If there’s a prosecution of Donald Trump for mishandling classified information, after the Clinton debacle… there’ll be riots in the streets,” Graham told former South Carolina congressman Trey Gowdy, who now hosts Fox News’ “Sunday Night in America.”

 

Trump shared a clip of the interview on Truth Social later Sunday evening.

 

Gowdy was chairman of the House Select Committee on Benghazi, which probed the 2012 terror attacks in Libya that left four Americans dead and uncovered a private email server used by Clinton. 

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-talk-shows/3619050-graham-predicts-riots-in-the-streets-if-trump-prosecuted-over-classified-docs/

[Chomper Higgot]

6 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

“If there’s a prosecution of Donald Trump for mishandling classified information, after the Clinton debacle… there’ll be riots in the streets,” Graham told former South Carolina congressman Trey Gowdy, who now hosts Fox News’ “Sunday Night in America.”

 

Trump shared a clip of the interview on Truth Social later Sunday evening.

 

Gowdy was chairman of the House Select Committee on Benghazi, which probed the 2012 terror attacks in Libya that left four Americans dead and uncovered a private email server used by Clinton. 

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-talk-shows/3619050-graham-predicts-riots-in-the-streets-if-trump-prosecuted-over-classified-docs/

‘Nice country you’ve got there, it would be a shame if anything happened to it’.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

‘Nice country you’ve got there, it would be a shame if anything happened to it’.

Trump became a hero for inciting an insurrection. Now, Graham is trying to get in on the act and steal some of the limelight by inciting mob violence.

[candide]

7 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

“If there’s a prosecution of Donald Trump for mishandling classified information, after the Clinton debacle… there’ll be riots in the streets,” Graham told former South Carolina congressman Trey Gowdy, who now hosts Fox News’ “Sunday Night in America.”

 

Trump shared a clip of the interview on Truth Social later Sunday evening.

 

Gowdy was chairman of the House Select Committee on Benghazi, which probed the 2012 terror attacks in Libya that left four Americans dead and uncovered a private email server used by Clinton. 

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-talk-shows/3619050-graham-predicts-riots-in-the-streets-if-trump-prosecuted-over-classified-docs/

“I’ve never been more worried about the law and politics as I am right now,” he added.

 

Graham doesn't seem to have the same concern when it's about Jan. 6 and Trump's attempt at stealing elections. ????

[ballpoint]

A special master is normally appointed when a lawyer's office is searched as part of an investigation, so that any records that need to be protected by attorney-client privilege are filtered out and not disclosed to the investigators, they are not usually appointed in the case of documents retrieved from a non-lawyer.  In any case, the FBI has agents who are not working on the case going through the material as a filter team (or 'taint" team as Fox News are calling it), and no doubt have already reviewed much of these documents that were seized almost two weeks ago.  These are delaying tactics, pure and simple.

 

The very fact that Trump is demanding this appointment also points to the sloppiness of record keeping during his term in office.  That unclassified material is mixed in with highly sensitive documents in the majority of the boxes recovered is in itself a major concern - and he is admitting it, otherwise he'd just need to ask for the return of boxes containing only his own material.  Not everyone with White House access has a top secret security clearance, and that location is traditionally the number one target of foreign intelligence agents for good reason, (though Mar-a-Lago would seem to be rapidly catching up).  A White House where anyone could look through a box of KFC menus and come across Trump's plans to pardon a couple of criminals, along with details of the latest nuclear warheads and fleet defence systems is a travesty of security.

 

Finally, despite the wailing and near melt down of Trump supporters regarding the redacted affadavit, it is none the less quite revealing.  It claims that agents reviewing the documents returned in January found classified ones in 14 of the 15 boxes returned, including "184 unique documents that had classification markings, with 25 documents marked as “TOP SECRET,” 67 documents marked as “confidential” and 92 marked “secret.”" - again pointing to the situation where it seems that classified and non-classified material were thrown into various boxes with no concern for separating them and securing the classified documents.  (Strangely, or not, Trump never played the "I declassified them just by removing them" card on that occasion).  According to the letter John Soloman released recently, they then went back in June and collected more material, at which time they were assured by at least one of Trump's lawyers that everything had been returned. This was obviously not the case, as an insider informed them that classified material might still be present, and they knew that they had not received other items, such as Kim Jong-un's, and Barack Obama's letters - Trump's stubborness only served to incriminate himself. 

 

As we now know from the released receipt of items removed, agents removed 11 additional sets of classified documents, including some labeled secret and top secret, and also papers described as “SCI” documents.  It seems that "probable cause" was actually definite cause, and Trump is complaining like a busted bank robber who insists that some of the money recovered from his heist was his own to start with ("All right, take back the $1M that I took, but the rest is my own money.  It just got mixed up when I threw the stolen money into the cardboard box I keep it in.  I demand you give that back to me!")

 

Top-Secret Documents at Trump’s Mar-a-Lago: What We Know (nymag.com)

 

Intel officials will assess ‘risk to national security’ from documents found at Trump’s Mar-a-Lago (nbcnews.com)